Intel Kaby Lake Core i7-7700K IPC Review @ [H]

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FrgMstr

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Intel Kaby Lake Core i7-7700K IPC Review - We have now gotten to spend a good amount of time with Intel's new Core i7-7700K processor, codenamed "Kaby Lake." This processor family is set to be launched at CES next year. Today we are pushing through a suite of benchmarks to see what Kaby Lake has in store for the enthusiast compared to the 6700K.
 
So it is ever so slightly more efficient... and thats about it. Looks like I will be hanging on to my 6700K another year or two.
 
WOW. I have a feeling that Zen is going to be Athlon Redux - the first company to make Intel really scramble was AMD (really the only one), and if the Zen items are to be believed (and at this point, there is a LOT of smoke from a lot of different sources that Zen is for real), then AMD is poised for a comeback. Intel just seems to have mailed it in.

Then again, we've had a long time of AMD shooting themselves in the foot, so I get all the cynicism. But I haven't seen this much AMD optimism in a long time - and I don't mean from the usual TeamRed fanbois - I mean from investors, from tech people, and people whose jobs it is to be tech cynics until the metal is put to benchmark.

I do think Vega will disappoint (I've noted as much already) as it's the last of the old, poorly engineered Arctic Islands cards before Raja came in, but if Zen can hold things together on the processor side (most consistent rumor from multiple sources was that it trades blows with Intel's $1000 extreme enthusiast i7 - at half the cost), then I think enthusiasts will be flocking to AMD again, and pressure will be on the RTG to make Navi - the first new architecture Raja will have had total control over - something that can overtake NVidia.

I will say, while AMD's marketing department leaves much to be desired, they hired some damn good business people and strategists. They have made deal after deal since Lisa Su got there that has helped them not only stay afloat but actually gain profit, market share, and boost stocks, all while making product that doesn't compete with the top end, but gets by on "good enough". I just can't bet against shrewdness like that, even if its taking time for the actual tech to catch up...
 
Zion Halcyon said:
WOW. I have a feeling that Zen is going to be Athlon Redux - the first company to make Intel really scramble was AMD (really the only one), and if the Zen items are to be believed (and at this point, there is a LOT of smoke from a lot of different sources that Zen is for real), then AMD is poised for a comeback. Intel just seems to have mailed it in.
Click to expand...

Exactly! I have not had any real reason to upgrade my Sandy Bridge, other than wanting to get better I/O options. If AMD can step up with Zen I would love to rebuild me system and loop just to support competition in the industry.
 
DWolvin said:
Exactly! I have not had any real reason to upgrade my Sandy Bridge, other than wanting to get better I/O options. .
Click to expand...

This entirely depend on what are you doing with your machine.
 
If I'm buying a new machine, it'll have Kaby Lake in it (new machine that isn't replacing my current one). That's the only scenario I can see my going with one. I will not upgrade to it. It would make no sense.

For the desktop computer enthusiast, there really is no "good." Am I appreciative of the power usage reductions? Absolutely, but that minimal savings is absolutely no reason for anyone with a "new" CPU to purchase a Kaby Lake.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I'm getting from the review. There is no reason to upgrade. The desire is definitely there. I'd love to upgrade. I want to upgrade. I just want to be smart about my purchase.
 
Araxie said:
This entirely depend on what are you doing with your machine.
Click to expand...

True.

Gaming, with a nice GPU, is just fine with a 2600K.
Web/email/Word/Excel/Visual Studio - just fine with a 2600K.

I'm not doing video work or anything that requires 8 threads, 64 GB RAM (although..... I could run more VM's!), etc..

I would notice a speed difference, sure. But, I'd be buying a new CPU, motherboard, RAM, probably a newer SSD. It's just not worth it for my use case. If I were to see a 25% speed bump (15%, I'd still be happy), I'd upgrade. It'd be a similar situation (won't see a huge, massive difference), but I'd feel I got something worth what I paid for it.
 
Agreed, my rig [H]folds, and some gaming. What I mean is that there is no reason to swap a 4.6Gig hexcore which also requires a new motherboard and RAM at a minimum for minor gains.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
WOW. I have a feeling that Zen is going to be Athlon Redux - the first company to make Intel really scramble was AMD (really the only one), and if the Zen items are to be believed (and at this point, there is a LOT of smoke from a lot of different sources that Zen is for real), then AMD is poised for a comeback. Intel just seems to have mailed it in.

Then again, we've had a long time of AMD shooting themselves in the foot, so I get all the cynicism. But I haven't seen this much AMD optimism in a long time - and I don't mean from the usual TeamRed fanbois - I mean from investors, from tech people, and people whose jobs it is to be tech cynics until the metal is put to benchmark.

I do think Vega will disappoint (I've noted as much already) as it's the last of the old, poorly engineered Arctic Islands cards before Raja came in, but if Zen can hold things together on the processor side (most consistent rumor from multiple sources was that it trades blows with Intel's $1000 extreme enthusiast i7 - at half the cost), then I think enthusiasts will be flocking to AMD again, and pressure will be on the RTG to make Navi - the first new architecture Raja will have had total control over - something that can overtake NVidia.

I will say, while AMD's marketing department leaves much to be desired, they hired some damn good business people and strategists. They have made deal after deal since Lisa Su got there that has helped them not only stay afloat but actually gain profit, market share, and boost stocks, all while making product that doesn't compete with the top end, but gets by on "good enough". I just can't bet against shrewdness like that, even if its taking time for the actual tech to catch up...
Click to expand...
While AMD Zen might be big improvements from there past CPU's, It won't surpass Intels IPC and won't clock up to its levels.
So it maybe a good buy, but overall performance for OC'er won't surpass IMO.
 
The lack if IPC improvements is disturbing. I am still however looking forward to seeing 4.8-5GHz overclocks.

I want to build a fast gaming micro-ATX system for myself, it will replace my current very large case/system. I'm trying to simplify, organize, create a clean desk setup. I want a small package, with a lot of punch. So in my user case scenario I'm going to have to replace the motherboard and everything anyway.

I've got that upgrade itch. If I could get 4.8-5GHz out of it in a small case, well that would be exciting. I will wait and see.
 
I'm still using 4700K systems.
They are actually just fine, but I need to get up to speed with some DDR4 memory. I'd love to build something this winter
while I have time.

I am waiting on the 1080 Ti release.

Looks like I could get me some 6700K and be just fine.

Thanks for the review and the advice.
 
Ur_Mom said:
True.

Gaming, with a nice GPU, is just fine with a 2600K.
Web/email/Word/Excel/Visual Studio - just fine with a 2600K.

I'm not doing video work or anything that requires 8 threads, 64 GB RAM (although..... I could run more VM's!), etc..

I would notice a speed difference, sure. But, I'd be buying a new CPU, motherboard, RAM, probably a newer SSD. It's just not worth it for my use case. If I were to see a 25% speed bump (15%, I'd still be happy), I'd upgrade. It'd be a similar situation (won't see a huge, massive difference), but I'd feel I got something worth what I paid for it.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. For what we do we (gaming), the CPU hasn't mattered since Sandy came out (unless you have an AMD chip...). The GPU is the bottleneck, and there's really no reason to spend hundreds of dollars on a 1FPS gain. My 2600k, STOCK, is still faster then my 1080 GTX.
 
With upcoming OC review can we also see faster memory tested? Does the 7700K work better with faster memory over Skylake? Same IPC and looking at 200-300mhz OC ceiling is not a big motivating reason to upgrade from Skylake but from other processors this maybe not bad at all. Can the OCing review test against older Intel cpu's like Haswell, IvyBridge even? That would make more sense to compare to for an upgrade point. Looks like kaby Lake is first Intel CPU that will hit 5ghz since Sandy Bridge. For the Sandy Bridge crowd the platform maybe a much bigger reason to upgrade to take advantage of M2 SSD's, pcie ones etc. PCI3, USB 3.1 and so on.
 
Thankyou for the article. Just when I thought to spend some money upgrading because I'm bored and want the latest. I think I'll put my money on some other toys. Since my son left home I don't play games the way I use too. Sure miss those days though.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Cyrix Pentium Killer! Whoop whoop!

My first CPU above the 486 was the Cyrix x586 (I believe that's what it was called). Then, I went AMD for a while with the K6 and K6-2.
Click to expand...

I remember reading an article when I worked at Hardees in like 1998 or 1997 which had me all pumped up on Cyrix... then when I was ready to buy one they disappeared
 
Man that's gotta be the most boring tests results I've ever seen.

As I've been saying for years now. If you have sandybridge, just keep it.
 
AMD, do we matter? Lisa Su? AMD has a hugely influential and substantial fanbase waiting to wave your flag again. We all still have that Blue Core Thunderbird and 9700 Pro love in our hearts. We are older now and have lots of money to spend on tech and its toys. We are established, influential, and well informed, and all our family members and all their friends ask our advice on computer purchasing and then it trickles down. That is the HardOCP reader profile. Wouldn't you love to have us once again direct all those purchasing dollars with a comment like, "Just look for the AMD Zen (and beyond) badge and you will be getting a quality product."



If we have learned anything this year, it is that grass roots support is monumental. God knows us enthusiasts can market better for AMD than Roy Taylor can any day. AMD, the door is open, give us a reason, please.
Click to expand...

Gotta admit, I teared up a little bit reading Kyle's plea to AMD.
 
SeymourGore said:
Gotta admit, I teared up a little bit reading Kyle's plea to AMD.
Click to expand...

Truth.

I've had most of the great AMD chips....K6-3 and ThunderBird were my first two builds....then my first enthusiest level build Thoroughbred B 2700+, on a nForce2 (how weird is it now to think of NVidia making the best AMD chipset???) mobo and a 9700 Pro and OC'd Corsair RAM...man that thing kicked ass for the time! Then the last of what I consider AMDs truly competitive CPUs, a Phenom 955BE paired with a 5850.

Now....outside of the 955BE still running as my garage computer...I don't have any AMD chips in my gaming systems....it saddens me. Have a couple APU laptops that my wife plays Sims and such on, and they're fine....but I have 2 -INTEL- gaming systems. I feel ashamed....but it is what it is. And Intel is doing nothing to want me to upgrade....the Haswell in my desktop is more than enough for my RX480.

I'm desperate for Zen to be everything it's supposed be. WE need it. Go look at review sites...it's nothing but reviews of solid state drives and mechanical keyboards because there hasn't been a relevant battle outside of a couple GPU price segments in a looooong time.
 
I guess intel doesn't like my money. too bad, I really wanted to give it to them again. Oh well. April will be the six year mark for my sandy and MB.
 
Big time yawn, X99 just keeps looking like a better investment. I really hope AMD pulls off Zen well, and that devs start utilizing multi core well, especially beyond 4 threads.
 
Performs exactly as expected. Coffee lake will be 6 cores and this. Icelake will be the first big new thing.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
WOW. I have a feeling that Zen is going to be Athlon Redux
...
Click to expand...

AMD's own statements about Zen's performance are contradictory to this statement. AMD has stated that Zen will have 40% better IPC than Excavator. This puts it in the Haswell range. If the rumors about clock speed are true then AMD's not going to reach the same clock speeds with Zen than Intel is with Skylake much less Kaby Lake. Zen may be a good buy for certain builds or within certain budget ranges but don't expect an i7 killer out of AMD. You will only be lining up for disappointment.

Also keep in mind that the lack of performance improvement isn't because Intel couldn't actually get more performance out of the CPU. Its because its primary focus is performance per watt. On the mobile side Kaby Lake will be a success. It just isn't all that exciting on the desktop side.

Ur_Mom said:
If I'm buying a new machine, it'll have Kaby Lake in it (new machine that isn't replacing my current one). That's the only scenario I can see my going with one. I will not upgrade to it. It would make no sense.



That's exactly what I'm getting from the review. There is no reason to upgrade. The desire is definitely there. I'd love to upgrade. I want to upgrade. I just want to be smart about my purchase.
Click to expand...

I don't have near the hands on time with Kaby Lake that Kyle does. That said my take on the data I've seen is that its a far more interesting part in the mobile and server markets. For the desktop its about as exciting as Devil's Canyon was compared to Haswell. In the industry, there is less excitement about the performance of Kaby Lake than there is about LED light synchronization between motherboards and video cards. That pretty much says it all right there.

EdKiefer said:
While AMD Zen might be big improvements from there past CPU's, It won't surpass Intels IPC and won't clock up to its levels.
So it maybe a good buy, but overall performance for OC'er won't surpass IMO.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I don't think that makes Zen a failure but it isn't going to be an i7 killer.

Ur_Mom said:
Cyrix Pentium Killer! Whoop whoop!

My first CPU above the 486 was the Cyrix x586 (I believe that's what it was called). Then, I went AMD for a while with the K6 and K6-2.
Click to expand...

Cyrix had the 5x86 which was a Pentium class CPU on a 486 motherboard. It also had the 6x86 which was their true Pentium alternative. One out of every three CPUs was marked "IBM 6x86" as IBM was the manufacturer of those CPUs. That chip was sold under at least those two names. Later 6x86MX and M2 processors were less compelling than the earlier chips were.

Stoly said:
Man that's gotta be the most boring tests results I've ever seen.

As I've been saying for years now. If you have sandybridge, just keep it.
Click to expand...

I was joking with Kyle last night about seeing this very comment out of the gate. :) Sandy Bridge is long in the tooth for certain applications vs. newer architectures but gaming isn't one of them. The motherboard platforms of today bring more excitement to the table than the newer CPUs do by themselves. M.2 and other features are bigger incentives to upgrade than the processor is.
 
I for one would be excited about onboard TB3 but I have a number of the peripherals. Most are TB2 though, so I need to look into that, or see if Apple's inexpensive adapter can be used here. Aside from that, might look toward AMD or HEDT refresh. I don't need an upgrade but my motherboard has been flaky.. if I'm gonna swap it out, gonna upgrade.
 
I'm just pissed the marketing folks over at Intel could not have done Devil's Canyon v2 and saved some fucking face. This just looks brazen.
 
I believe this should have been added to the end of Kyle's review..

1419361708_As7_Jre_Ft4_Y_9_1.jpg
 
Presbytier said:
Well this means that if you want to upgrade wait for the inevitable 6700k price cuts and ignore the 7700
Click to expand...
Microcenter has been pretty consistent with doing clearance sales with CPU+motherboard combos in the spring during tax season since Sandy Bridge 5 years ago. This helps them clear old stock before Intel starts releasing new product in summer and fall.

Many times, I've seen them sell the CPU's and motherboards at a loss. i7's at i5 prices. These loss leaders help them sell everything else like the cases, video cards, drives, and power supplies. I've done this upgrade twice in past 5 years, once for my Sandy Bridge system in 2012, and again last year with my Fiance's system. Some of their video cards aren't the best deals, but I've done the math and in both times the deep discounts on cpu+motherboard still put me ahead in money saved had I gone Newegg.

I hope I get my tax return in February. New i7 6700K for me!
 
regarding Zen (which seems to come up in almost every thread CPU related of late) why can't we all just chill the f out and wait for Kyle and co. to bench it. Speculation gets us nothing
 
On the flip side Intel could be throwing a bone to AMD and their investors:
a. does it lower manufacturing costs, AD costs... same result but lower costs?
b. do the costs get passed on to the consumer( haha intel probably no)
c. since they wont blow AMD out of the water it allows AMD to look good in 2017 and compete with Intel (cough was this part of the licensing deal?)
-this can help keep competition something we always worry/complain about on many topics in hardocp
d. are we hitting physics walls with current processors until we change to diamonds, blood of children or something else more efficient?
 
Zzzzz... move along, nothing to see...

That's exactly what I needed to know for recommending the chip to others.
 
Kyle Bennett, you are the MAN! Keep telling it like it is and screw the critics. You are the main reason I have been a [H] member for over 15 years. (plus you gave me personal tips on how to overclock my Celeron 300 to run at 450 mhz)
 
Brent_Justice said:
The lack if IPC improvements is disturbing. I am still however looking forward to seeing 4.8-5GHz overclocks.

I want to build a fast gaming micro-ATX system for myself, it will replace my current very large case/system. I'm trying to simplify, organize, create a clean desk setup. I want a small package, with a lot of punch. So in my user case scenario I'm going to have to replace the motherboard and everything anyway.

I've got that upgrade itch. If I could get 4.8-5GHz out of it in a small case, well that would be exciting. I will wait and see.
Click to expand...


I'm still invested in my filing cabinet sized case and radiators that combined have roughly the same surface area as the upgraded intercooler in my car so I want raw performance instead of modest gains in power efficiency. Hopefully Zen means switching from my 3930k and getting nvme drives in RAID.

Regarding the power savings of Kaby Lake versus Skylake, at 10-15 cents a Kw/Hr how many years of running flat out would it take to recoup the cost of upgrading with a new chip and motherboard?
 
So...still no compelling reason to upgrade from an overclocked 6 core Xeon other than platform I/O improvements. Still!

I'm going on almost 9 years with this motherboard now. I never thought I'd keep a board in my main PC this long.
 
*sigh*

Waiting on Skylake-E and Zen. Gonna see which one I can get in ITX, and go from there.

Ivy Bridge still chugging along here :)

MOTHER OF GOD did that Blue TBird article bring back memories. I still remember taking my 700 Duron up over 1G for the first time on a KT133A board :) Thanks!!
 
Its really simple actually....

Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

There is absolutely no need for better hardware, The gaming industry is the only thing that keeps all this going, and games haven't taken any real steps since Glide & 3Dfx died. Keeping up with the Jones's only makes sense if the Jones's are actually going somewhere.

VR? Please... more horseshit to distract folks from the stagnancy of the Market. They try to bring that bullshit back into the mainstream every couple of years, just like goddamn 3D....its a useless, pointless gimic used to convince you to re-buy everything yet again.
 
DoggyDaddi said:
Its really simple actually....

Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

There is absolutely no need for better hardware, The gaming industry is the only thing that keeps all this going, and games haven't taken any real steps since Glide & 3Dfx died. Keeping up with the Jones's only makes sense if the Jones's are actually going somewhere.

VR? Please... more horseshit to distract folks from the stagnancy of the Market. They try to bring that bullshit back into the mainstream every couple of years, just like goddamn 3D....its a useless, pointless gimmick used to convince you to re-buy everything yet again.
Click to expand...
So we keep waiting for games to go full multi core, but one has to really ask would that actually give any tangible benefits. We've had multi core CPU for a long time now and games still rarely use more than two. If the benefits where obvious you would think it would have happened allready.
 
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