Intel Has a Problem: Vast majority of Game Crashes come from 13th/14th gen Intel CPU's during Decompression

Brackle said:
Yeah AMD can be just as shady as Intel. Look at the 5900XT and 5800XT release they just did. Why the fuck even release those at the fucking prices. IMO AMD will try to ripoff customers from time to time.
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How is that “shady”? They launched a product at an unreasonably high price. No one says you have to buy it at that price. This isn’t even close to being in the same league as having known manufacturing flaws for two years, hiding it from customers, and then either not allowing RMAs, or making it extremely difficult to get one, when the product is discovered.
 
I was waiting for Black Friday to finally upgrade my rig to the latest Intel processor, but it looks like I'll be going with AMD this time around. :|
 
HockeyJon said:
How is that “shady”? They launched a product at an unreasonably high price. No one says you have to buy it at that price. This isn’t even close to being in the same league as having known manufacturing flaws for two years, hiding it from customers, and then either not allowing RMAs, or making it extremely difficult to get one, when the product is discovered.
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The shady part is them saying the 5800XT is as fast as a 13600k (not even close) and the 5900XT is as fast as a 14700k (Again not even close). Then charging an arm and a leg.
 
ChadD said:
He was on the team. Its my understanding he gets way to much credit yes. As I understand it once they had a basic arch, his team was more focused on the development of the ARM Ryzen chip that got shelved. AMD was in no place financially to try and push the world ARM in 2017. He for sure wasn't around for any of the chiplet development or stacked caches. It is probably not unfair to say zens core stopped changing much after Zen3 or so... but it did change pretty substantially between zen 1 and 3.
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From what I understand it's not his sole genius that created the Architecture. He's supposed to be an effective project manager that knows how to assemble the right minds for the right jobs. Under his leadership, a multi year arch was created. Ryzen wouldn't exist today and AMD might be a bargain bin company in bankruptcy.


A couple Points:

In August 2012 Keller returned to AMD, where his primary task was to lead development of new generations of x86-64 and ARM microarchitectures called Zen and K12. After years of being unable to compete with Intel in the high-end CPU market, AMD restored its ability to do just that with the new generation of Zen processors. On September 18, 2015 Keller left AMD.

He didn't single handedly do anything but AMD would be gone and there would be zero market competition without his help. Also, AMD canning the K12 was retarded. They essentially cut off a massive source of revenue in thin and light devices that no one has really capitalized on. There is a ass-load of money to be made in Tablets, Phones, smart devices, etc. Could have seen AMD processors in leading Tablets by now...

In April 2018 Keller joined Intel, where he served as Senior Vice President. He resigned from Intel in June 2020, officially citing personal reasons, though a later report said his departure was catalyzed by a dispute about whether the company should outsource more of its production

He was correct, Intel fucked themselves by not listening to him. They have issues with all their Fabs.
If the man gets a lot of credit he doesn't deserve.... I'm pretty certain no one would hire him.
This is a pretty good overview of his contributions to technology:
https://www.edn.com/the-story-of-jim-keller-and-his-pioneering-work-on-chip-design-and-architecture/

If he was a nothing burger, someone would have figured it out by now. I suspect Elon Musk would have had something to say about it.
 
Brackle said:
The shady part is them saying the 5800XT is as fast as a 13600k (not even close) and the 5900XT is as fast as a 14700k (Again not even close). Then charging an arm and a leg.
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We should probably revisit that in a week. :)
Can't argue though that AMD at this point should probably just not release marketing slides on performance vs Intel. Just stop, let the review kids do that. Then again I just watched a few reviews of the new 9700... and one review confirms AMDs performance claims, and another says its a regression. I guess trusting them is hard to do as well.
 
ChadD said:
We should probably revisit that in a week. :)
Can't argue though that AMD at this point should probably just not release marketing slides on performance vs Intel. Just stop, let the review kids do that. Then again I just watched a few reviews of the new 9700... and one review confirms AMDs performance claims, and another says its a regression. I guess trusting them is hard to do as well.
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Well the 9700x is basically gimped because of power limits. Once debauer lifted that limit in his review, then we saw the increase we all expected.

Not saying its worth buying, just stating that AMD gimped the CPU. Basically on par with a 7700x using what 60 less watts and way lower temps.
 
Legendary Gamer said:
From what I understand it's not his sole genius that created the Architecture. He's supposed to be an effective project manager that knows how to assemble the right minds for the right jobs. Under his leadership, a multi year arch was created. Ryzen wouldn't exist today and AMD might be a bargain bin company in bankruptcy.


A couple Points:

In August 2012 Keller returned to AMD, where his primary task was to lead development of new generations of x86-64 and ARM microarchitectures called Zen and K12. After years of being unable to compete with Intel in the high-end CPU market, AMD restored its ability to do just that with the new generation of Zen processors. On September 18, 2015 Keller left AMD.

He didn't single handedly do anything but AMD would be gone and there would be zero market competition without his help. Also, AMD canning the K12 was retarded. They essentially cut off a massive source of revenue in thin and light devices that no one has really capitalized on. There is a ass-load of money to be made in Tablets, Phones, smart devices, etc. Could have seen AMD processors in leading Tablets by now...

In April 2018 Keller joined Intel, where he served as Senior Vice President. He resigned from Intel in June 2020, officially citing personal reasons, though a later report said his departure was catalyzed by a dispute about whether the company should outsource more of its production

He was correct, Intel fucked themselves by not listening to him. They have issues with all their Fabs.
If the man gets a lot of credit he doesn't deserve.... I'm pretty certain no one would hire him.
This is a pretty good overview of his contributions to technology:
https://www.edn.com/the-story-of-jim-keller-and-his-pioneering-work-on-chip-design-and-architecture/

If he was a nothing burger, someone would have figured it out by now. I suspect Elon Musk would have had something to say about it.
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Don't misunderstand what I was getting at. Jim is a great designer, a good team leader... all of that is true. I just wanted to try and make clear some people talk about him like he is a design god who is responsible for everything AMD has done since. Your not wrong AMD needed a correction in the design dept. (having said that Intel during those lean years was cheating heavy... truth is the FX chips would be remembered far differently if Intels was forced to correct their branch prediction cheat while all those Core2->Sandy chips were current stock. They wouldn't be remembered as the 40% slower budget chips they would be the 5% slower half cost value winners, they should have been.)

On K12, I don't know man AMD was very close to honestly having to tap out and file papers. I do believe K12 was capable of doing all those great things. Problem was AMD would have had to pull engineers of Zen... Chipset designers off Zen... salesman off Zen... it goes on and on. They had to focus. They should probably reignite AMD ARM at some point. I do think they had no choice though with K12. They just were in no place financially to have multiple skunk works projects going on.

Jim is a rockstar designer no doubt. A man like him will be employed somewhere working on something cool as long as he wants to be working. He just isn't the "Father" of all things zen. Zen1 was honestly a very traditional design... it wasn't anything fancy. It was a return to normal really. The FX chips were actually far more unique and interesting, Zen was a return to lets focus on making a solid boring well performing X86 chip without reinventing the wheel. I know some people talk up the switch to a more "intel" style branch prediction unit. Really though that style of Branch prediction had been a thing in academia for 20 years by the time AMD built Zen. Jim incorporated the most reliable high performance bits he could that would fab well... and your right he got the right people in the right places to do that. From what I understand though once they had that basic stuff ticked off his attention was completely on K12 which never shipped. Zen2 say actual major arch changes, and Jim had been gone for almost 4 years at that point.

For everyone saying AMD... at least its not Intel right now. Zen5 is actually revolutionary. I know early reviews are shoing it doesn't have a massive performance uplift some were hoping for. But I think the focus is going to be on thep ower efficency. In one review of the 9700x I just went though the thing was running at 70 degrees at FULL load. Their new 2 step branch prediction looks like its doing some freaking amazing things for power use. I'm sure there are a lot of big iron people right now that are creaming themselves for the 192 core Zen5 chips coming.
 
ChadD said:
Don't misunderstand what I was getting at. Jim is a great designer, a good team leader... all of that is true. I just wanted to try and make clear some people talk about him like he is a design god who is responsible for everything AMD has done since. Your not wrong AMD needed a correction in the design dept. (having said that Intel during those lean years was cheating heavy... truth is the FX chips would be remembered far differently if Intels was forced to correct their branch prediction cheat while all those Core2->Sandy chips were current stock. They wouldn't be remembered as the 40% slower budget chips they would be the 5% slower half cost value winners, they should have been.)

On K12, I don't know man AMD was very close to honestly having to tap out and file papers. I do believe K12 was capable of doing all those great things. Problem was AMD would have had to pull engineers of Zen... Chipset designers off Zen... salesman off Zen... it goes on and on. They had to focus. They should probably reignite AMD ARM at some point. I do think they had no choice though with K12.

Jim is a rockstar designer no doubt. A man like him will be employed somewhere working on something cool as long as he wants to be working. He just isn't the "Father" of all things zen. Zen1 was honestly a very traditional design... it wasn't anything fancy. It was a return to normal really. The FX chips were actually far more unique and interesting, Zen was a return to lets focus on making a solid boring well performing X86 chip without reinventing the wheel. I know some people talk up the switch to a more "intel" style branch prediction unit. Really though that style of Branch prediction had been a thing in academia for 20 years by the time AMD built Zen. Jim incorporated the most reliable high performance bits he could that would fab well... and your right he got the right people in the right places to do that. From what I understand though once they had that basic stuff ticked off his attention was completely on K12 which never shipped. Zen2 say actual major arch changes, and Jim had been gone for almost 4 years at that point.

For everyone saying AMD... at least its not Intel right now. Zen5 is actually revolutionary. I know early reviews are shoing it doesn't have a massive performance uplift some were hoping for. But I think the focus is going to be on thep ower efficency. In one review of the 9700x I just went though the thing was running at 70 degrees at FULL load. Their new 2 step branch prediction looks like its doing some freaking amazing things for power use. I'm sure there are a lot of big iron people right now that are creaming themselves for the 192 core Zen5 chips coming.
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The past point is especially true. Techtubers are missing the plot here and a surprising number of enthusiasts are only looking at the surface.
 
NightReaver said:
The past point is especially true. Techtubers are missing the plot here and a surprising number of enthusiasts are only looking at the surface.
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One of the main issues with AM4... was worrying about power delivery to the CPU as the generations ticked up. I mean I used a pretty cheap MOBO for one of my kids machines... and as I was bumping those chips down to her machine I had to think, hmmm is this chip going to melt this older value chipset. lol

Zen5 should make every AM5 adopter very very happy. Ok maybe your not getting 30% more performance this gen. But for the first time in the HISTORY of CPUs unless I'm forgetting something. A next gen part is legit going to use drastically less wattage in the same socket in the same MOBO. I mean fine if you have a 7800x3d you are probably not buying a 9000 chip. Lets be honest though that was probably not going to be a great upgrade path anyway. Skip ahead one more generation though. You should feel a lot better about being able to slot a Zen5+ in a few years from now. AMD has also now said AM5 support till min 2027.
 
ChadD said:
We should probably revisit that in a week. :)
Can't argue though that AMD at this point should probably just not release marketing slides on performance vs Intel. Just stop, let the review kids do that. Then again I just watched a few reviews of the new 9700... and one review confirms AMDs performance claims, and another says its a regression. I guess trusting them is hard to do as well.
Click to expand...

This is why it’s always important to get multiple perspectives. Each reviewer is going to run different tests and might even be using different hardware (especially mobos and RAM kits). Even in situations where they’re testing the same programs, different settings will create different results.
 
ChadD said:
Don't misunderstand what I was getting at. Jim is a great designer, a good team leader... all of that is true. I just wanted to try and make clear some people talk about him like he is a design god who is responsible for everything AMD has done since. Your not wrong AMD needed a correction in the design dept. (having said that Intel during those lean years was cheating heavy... truth is the FX chips would be remembered far differently if Intels was forced to correct their branch prediction cheat while all those Core2->Sandy chips were current stock. They wouldn't be remembered as the 40% slower budget chips they would be the 5% slower half cost value winners, they should have been.)

On K12, I don't know man AMD was very close to honestly having to tap out and file papers. I do believe K12 was capable of doing all those great things. Problem was AMD would have had to pull engineers of Zen... Chipset designers off Zen... salesman off Zen... it goes on and on. They had to focus. They should probably reignite AMD ARM at some point. I do think they had no choice though with K12. They just were in no place financially to have multiple skunk works projects going on.

Jim is a rockstar designer no doubt. A man like him will be employed somewhere working on something cool as long as he wants to be working. He just isn't the "Father" of all things zen. Zen1 was honestly a very traditional design... it wasn't anything fancy. It was a return to normal really. The FX chips were actually far more unique and interesting, Zen was a return to lets focus on making a solid boring well performing X86 chip without reinventing the wheel. I know some people talk up the switch to a more "intel" style branch prediction unit. Really though that style of Branch prediction had been a thing in academia for 20 years by the time AMD built Zen. Jim incorporated the most reliable high performance bits he could that would fab well... and your right he got the right people in the right places to do that. From what I understand though once they had that basic stuff ticked off his attention was completely on K12 which never shipped. Zen2 say actual major arch changes, and Jim had been gone for almost 4 years at that point.

For everyone saying AMD... at least its not Intel right now. Zen5 is actually revolutionary. I know early reviews are shoing it doesn't have a massive performance uplift some were hoping for. But I think the focus is going to be on thep ower efficency. In one review of the 9700x I just went though the thing was running at 70 degrees at FULL load. Their new 2 step branch prediction looks like its doing some freaking amazing things for power use. I'm sure there are a lot of big iron people right now that are creaming themselves for the 192 core Zen5 chips coming.
Click to expand...
Thank you, the FX lineup was totally innovative. The architecture could have taken off and in some ways it saved AMD because it became the budget bin CPU that powered the main gaming consoles on the planet for a time (thanks for Lisa Su's leadership) I never thought the Vishera design was shit. However, even Phenom II's Single Thread Performance made it look sad. Likely related to the same thing, less complex instruction set and way less secure. AMD introduced a Security Processor in the FX lineup too. I recall the architecture being pretty cool. Shared resources and modules, WAY AHEAD OF ITS TIME.

Having an ARM architecture that AMD could license out to other companies wouldn't have crippled them. I think, if anything even if they didn't support it much past a couple revisions - it would have gotten AMD into a greater market share faster. I understand what you're saying, they were close to calling it quits and maybe they didn't want to spare the resources but I think we can chalk that one up as "never know or lost potential" kind of like what Intel is doing with Keller's design group work on the next Intel CPU. Single thread performance is still king and lots of applications still rely on it and fast ST translated to multicore performance could have been incredible. Two REALLY BIG cores, sounded pretty sweet to me. Plus it was supposed to have quad SMT....

Zen was a lot of people. But Keller is the reason that team succeeded. That's the way I see it. He pops into companies and loves the challenge, when the challenge is over, he moves on.

As for the XT shit from AMD... Their marketing has always been slimy on their internal benchmarks. AMD is always sniffing it's own farts, their benchmark charts are about as reliable as a Snake Oil Salesman from the wild west. It's POSSIBLE that their 5000 series XT parts may hit near intel 13th Gen parity after Intel Plugs in all the holes they released their CPUs with just to win benchmarks. The frequency is increasing on them and that was always what seemed to hold the 5000 series back. They were more efficient than Intel Clock for Clock but couldn't ramp up enough to keep pace with Intel when they took the limiters off the clocks and power.

As for the 9700 being the same speed as the 7700. I can see that being likely, they found a way to make the CPUs way more efficient at on power consumption but they are more of a side-grade. What worries me here is that AMD thinks they have the lead and they are loving their own farts. Innovating less, and not pushing the envelope hard enough. If Intel's TSMC ventures pay off, AMD is going to pay for not pushing the Arch harder. Because we can (and I have a 13900K that's failing) bitch all we want about Intel and big corporate screw jobs. But at the end of the day, if Intel's new Architecture beats AMD's lineup to death, I won't be running an AMD processor. I think the wins make AMD soft.
 
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If AMD can go longer with the same socket, are there any advantages for Intel to change more often?
 
wandplus said:
If AMD can go longer with the same socket, are there any advantages for Intel to change more often?
Click to expand...

Obviously there is an advantage to their bottom line from forcing people (and partners) to buy the new chipsets. Outside of that, theoretically it allows Intel to adopt newer tech sooner without having to worry about legacy support. If, for example, DDR6 were to start releasing while AMD was in the middle of a socket cycle they really couldn’t adopt it until their next socket, where-as Intel could make the jump as soon as it’s viable.

Intel’s strategy also avoids something we saw with AM5: Not worrying about power delivery 3-4 generations later on lower end boards built for the 1st gen part. Along with the issue some boards had where the BIOS chip simply didn’t have enough storage to support every single AM4 CPU so there were cases where some firmware updates had to remove support for older chips in favor of newer one. Neither of these should really be an issues with AM5 as a lot of it came from manufacturers using cheaper components early on due to not wanting to invest a ton in Ryzen until it proved profitable to them.
 
wandplus said:
If AMD can go longer with the same socket, are there any advantages for Intel to change more often?
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No. Intel changing their sockets constantly is and always has been about selling more/new product and licensing fees. AMD has been a value platform for years now. I am running a 5600GT on my MSI Tomahawk B350 motherboard that I bought with my Ryzen 1700 way back in the day. Now, AMD was nearly going to drop support on their older boards because of the complexity of supporting it and their lack of vision on BIOS ROM memory sizes for future upgrades but the community outcry beat sense into them. Turns out the court of public opinion matters. Now, those older boards have modern CPU support but a lot of them lost something (Like RAID) to make room for the updated Microcode.
 
Last edited:
Derangel said:
Obviously there is an advantage to their bottom line from forcing people (and partners) to buy the new chipsets. Outside of that, theoretically it allows Intel to adopt newer tech sooner without having to worry about legacy support. If, for example, DDR6 were to start releasing while AMD was in the middle of a socket cycle they really couldn’t adopt it until their next socket, where-as Intel could make the jump as soon as it’s viable.

Intel’s strategy also avoids something we saw with AM5: Not worrying about power delivery 3-4 generations later on lower end boards built for the 1st gen part. Along with the issue some boards had where the BIOS chip simply didn’t have enough storage to support every single AM4 CPU so there were cases where some firmware updates had to remove support for older chips in favor of newer one. Neither of these should really be an issues with AM5 as a lot of it came from manufacturers using cheaper components early on due to not wanting to invest a ton in Ryzen until it proved profitable to them.
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Intel changing sockets often is simpler for some advancements but seemed totally unnecessary in the past or several generations of processors since they hadn't really innovated in any way since their 2000 series CPUs.

However, from the standpoint of adopting new techs and such, it makes sense. AMD got really screwed supporting their entry level boards from years ago with their promises. But I'm grateful because I'm still using their old shit with new tech.
That built a lot of good will and won hearts and minds for AMD.
 
Brackle said:
The shady part is them saying the 5800XT is as fast as a 13600k (not even close) and the 5900XT is as fast as a 14700k (Again not even close). Then charging an arm and a leg.
Click to expand...

Ok that's entirely fair, but you didn't mention that. I do agree, their benchmarking claims have been shady at best lately (straight up dishonest in a lot of ways). The pricing thing is a nothingburger to me, since we can always say no to it as a consumer. Like I really don't understand who that product is for, but whatever.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Wendell over at Level1Techs reached out to some of his contacts in the gaming industry to allow him to peek at game crash data in an attempt to figure out what is going on with Intel CPU instability. Two developers agreed, and the data is - well - staggering.

I'm not going to provide any spoilers. Just watch for yourself:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzHcrbT5D_Y

Figured you guys might find this interesting.

Edit: OK, I'll do some spoilers. (but still watch the video, the context and full details are worth it, and Wendell is a good dude who deserves your clicks and ad revenues)

1.) Out of 1584 game decompression errors during the 90 day data retention period across both databases, 1431 of the errors are on Intel 13th or 14th gen CPU's. Second place (after 13900KS/K/KF and 14900KS/K/KF) is the i7-9700H with only 11 instances. AMD CPU's only had four crashes in total in this dataset.
2.) Crash rates occur on average every 2 hours of gameplay for affected users.
3.) Frequency of crash rates increase over time. (silicon or something else is degrading?)
4.) This is not due to overclocking.
5.) Datasets from game servers using either Asus or Supermicro W680 chipsets (no overclocking support, more conservative designs) show similar crash rates.
6.) Crash rates are also increasing over time on the W680 game server datasets...

Game servers are an outlier in the datacenter in that the single threaded performance often warrants using consumer CPU's instead of Xeons for servers, but that may be changing with 13th and 14th gen Intel CPU's.

"...support incidents have been unusually high for that configuration... so recently we've had to update the bios, disable e-cores or do CPU swaps to get the issues resolved. And we're not sure the issue is fully resolved, so we are charging a support premium for those systems right now..."

-- A Datacenter Service provider


"...we had really good luck with the 12900ks, and have always had good luck with xeons [...] something isn't right with the 13900k and 14900k. We already replaced a lot of customer's 13900k with 14900k and the issues don't seem fully resolved. [...] been steering customers towards 7950c systems instead. They're almost always faster anyway."

-- A Datacenter Service provider


"I might lose over $100k in like lost players from these [multiplayer server] crashes"

-- A Game Developer

...so, as the video title states. It seems Intel has a real problem with their 13th and 14th gen CPU's.

It sounds like Intel is telling large system integrators (Dell, HP, etc.) that they should expect between 10% and 25% of CPU's will have a problem or are marginal in some way, and they are not really sure what the root issue is, and this number Intel is admitting is likely low when looking at the Game Crash databases.

When AMD motherboard partners were caught juicing CPU's to the point of premature failure, AMD was pretty quick to announce that customers would be made whole. Intel does not appear to be doing the same...

I don't know about you guys, but I probably wouldn't buy an Intel 13th or 14th gen CPU right now. Luckily the 9xxx series Ryzens are looking to be pretty nice, at least if early rumors and leaks are anything to go by.
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"Not All PC Makers Promises to Honour Intel's Extended CPU Warranty​

by TheLostSwede Today, 16:10 Discuss (3 Comments)
Intel recently announced it would offer an extra two-years warranty on its 13th and 14th gen Core CPUs, but it now seems like not all PC makers will follow suit. The Verge contacted 14 major PC makers and got a very mixed response when they asked if these companies would offer extended warranties on systems sold with said processors. It's important to keep in mind that OEM CPUs only come with a 12-month warranty, whereas retail box CPUs from Intel come with a three-year warranty. As such, most PC makers ought to extend the warranty in their systems by a further two years, as per Intel's new warranty terms and some are indeed doing this, while others appear not to.

However, a few companies appear to be offering up to a five-year warranty for the CPU in their system and these companies include Digital Storm, Falcon Northwest iBuyPower and Maingear, so kudos to them for going the extra mile. Corsair and Origin PC—which belongs to Corsair—are offering four years warranty, which is still pretty decent. This is followed by Puget Systems which will offer three years and finally we have Asus and HP which both will offer another two years of warranty, which is in line with what Intel has promised. Dell and its Alienware subsidiary hasn't promised any extended warranties, but will replace faulty CPUs under Intel's extended warranty and will cover any costs related to replacing the CPU, suggesting that they are offering a two-year extension as well."
 
erek said:

"Not All PC Makers Promises to Honour Intel's Extended CPU Warranty​

by TheLostSwede Today, 16:10 Discuss (3 Comments)
Intel recently announced it would offer an extra two-years warranty on its 13th and 14th gen Core CPUs, but it now seems like not all PC makers will follow suit. The Verge contacted 14 major PC makers and got a very mixed response when they asked if these companies would offer extended warranties on systems sold with said processors. It's important to keep in mind that OEM CPUs only come with a 12-month warranty, whereas retail box CPUs from Intel come with a three-year warranty. As such, most PC makers ought to extend the warranty in their systems by a further two years, as per Intel's new warranty terms and some are indeed doing this, while others appear not to.

However, a few companies appear to be offering up to a five-year warranty for the CPU in their system and these companies include Digital Storm, Falcon Northwest iBuyPower and Maingear, so kudos to them for going the extra mile. Corsair and Origin PC—which belongs to Corsair—are offering four years warranty, which is still pretty decent. This is followed by Puget Systems which will offer three years and finally we have Asus and HP which both will offer another two years of warranty, which is in line with what Intel has promised. Dell and its Alienware subsidiary hasn't promised any extended warranties, but will replace faulty CPUs under Intel's extended warranty and will cover any costs related to replacing the CPU, suggesting that they are offering a two-year extension as well."
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Dell has a weird warranty service when it comes to individual parts when the system warranty itself has expired, it's not fun to navigate and I don't envy anybody who has tried because the poor bastard answering the email or the phone is usually the last on the list to know that it is a covered issue.
That said for issues where the system is still covered under their warranty program, the agent just wants to get it dealt with as fast as possible so they usually just say yes to pretty much everything.
 
socK said:
If anyone hasn't seen it, some genius on Reddit recently hurled 700k inheritance straight at Intel stock right before it dropped 30+%

A++ investing
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As long as he holds he is probably going to be just fine.

As much as I bag Intel.... I really don't like Intel. Truth is the US gov is never going to allow Intel to die. If Intels stock doesn't turn around through their own doing in the next year, I fully expect some insane gov agency super computer announcement. Tied into new Intel US soil fabs. If the gov needs to "force" intel to fab GPU accelerators and CPUs in the US for a 100 exoflop beasty for 2028 or something to keep Intel solvent they will.
 
Spirk said:
Oh, from subsidies to tax breaks to funding their fab plants.... we probably give Intel more than the entire food stamp budget....
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I can only imagine how much Intel stock is held by political types. Ya Intel will be just fine long term. They are a large part of too many decision makers retirement plans.
 
ChadD said:
As long as he holds he is probably going to be just fine.

As much as I bag Intel.... I really don't like Intel. Truth is the US gov is never going to allow Intel to die. If Intels stock doesn't turn around through their own doing in the next year, I fully expect some insane gov agency super computer announcement. Tied into new Intel US soil fabs. If the gov needs to "force" intel to fab GPU accelerators and CPUs in the US for a 100 exoflop beasty for 2028 or something to keep Intel solvent they will.
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Probably accurate, particularly since chip fabs are a strategic thing these days and there aren't that many of them on advanced nodes out there. Intel is one of the few.

Also, nobody should want Intel to die, if that happens, all you will get is more shit like Zen 5 at a higher price. AMD will slow down their innovation and raise their prices because as the only one standing, they'll be able to. AMD is not some magnanimous force out to better humanity, they are a company and just as greedy as the rest. It is best for consumers when both AMD and Intel are doing well and force each other to keep innovating and keep prices reasonable.
 
Sycraft said:
Probably accurate, particularly since chip fabs are a strategic thing these days and there aren't that many of them on advanced nodes out there. Intel is one of the few.

Also, nobody should want Intel to die, if that happens, all you will get is more shit like Zen 5 at a higher price. AMD will slow down their innovation and raise their prices because as the only one standing, they'll be able to. AMD is not some magnanimous force out to better humanity, they are a company and just as greedy as the rest. It is best for consumers when both AMD and Intel are doing well and force each other to keep innovating and keep prices reasonable.
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No doubt. If intel tapped out though I would expect x86 itself would be done shortly after. AMD couldn't carry the torch alone... don't think the Chinese company using the Via license counts. :) I'm sure ARM would displace x86 in all things.
 
ChadD said:
No doubt. If intel tapped out though I would expect x86 itself would be done shortly after. AMD couldn't carry the torch alone... don't think the Chinese company using the Via license counts. :) I'm sure ARM would displace x86 in all things.
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Maybe, there's a lot of intertia to stick with what works though. I'm not saying we couldn't switch to ARM, but I don't know that a lot of things would. I think x86 would stick around and AMD would get fat and lazy, kinda like Intel did back in the day when AMD was very much inferior to them and not competing all that much.

For that matter x86 and everything going ARM wouldn't be great. While there's more than one company that makes ARM CPUs, there'd be one less type of CPU architecture out there and again, more reason for ARM to not innovate as much.

Either way, I don't want to see Intel die. People get WAY too team oriented and start to root for the company they like and demonize the one they don't. We should all want that Intel fixes their shit and does better, not that they die off.
 
Liqq said:
beta bios with the microcode fix are out from Asus for some of the Z series boards. My Z790 Prime hasn't been updated yet but I did see Strix and a few more.
https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/pr...ge-of-motherboards-with-0x129-microcode-bios/
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Additionally,

“

POSTED AUG 8, 2024
AT 12:09 PM EDT
3 Comments3 New


S

SEAN HOLLISTER
Should we do a big screaming headline about Intel BIOS updates?
Falcon Northwest CEO Kelt Reeves tells The Verge:
Please help us get the word out to all Raptor Lake desktop users, especially i9 users, in big screaming headlines that they need to update their PC to the latest BIOS now to stop/prevent the CPU wear and hopefully avoid the need for an RMA. Don’t wait for the August microcode – that’s the last 5% (we hope) of the solution, but 95% of the fix is available now. Think of the new BIOS’ as the vaccine against this issue, but it will do no good unless people get shots in arms.
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Intel spox Thomas Hannaford wouldn’t go as far as “95% of the fix,” but he says “Kelt’s PSA is a good one”. Besides, the August microcode is rolling out now:
intel14900k.jpg

Intel’s BIOS updates for crashing CPUs are now rolling out​

TOM WARREN
11:56 AM EDT”
 
What'll this do to my perf if I (say) have Asus MCE but didn't manually overclock?
 
polonyc2 said:
Intel's new Microcode patch is HERE! Impact Testing Performance...

at most 2% performance hit...
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That would be good if true. However I'm going to wait for testing from Hardware Unboxed or Gamer's Nexus, I do not trust Jay-Z Nocents :p. Either way I'll install it as soon as it is out (not out for my board yet).
 
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Sycraft said:
That would be good if true. However I'm going to wait for testing from Hardware Unboxed or Gamer's Nexus, I do not trust Jay-Z Nocents :p. Either way I'll install it as soon as it is out (not out for my board yet).
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Assuming it's the final update (Jay speculated that there might be more, but wasn't sure), I wouldn't be surprised if his results are pretty close to what everyone else sees. Based on his tests it doesn't look like there was that big of a drop in peak voltage or peak core speed. If that small drop is enough to get the chips to remain at safe levels then I doubt we'll see major performance decreases. Of course, this also assumes that those exact changes hold true across the board.
 
Derangel said:
Assuming it's the final update (Jay speculated that there might be more, but wasn't sure), I wouldn't be surprised if his results are pretty close to what everyone else sees. Based on his tests it doesn't look like there was that big of a drop in peak voltage or peak core speed. If that small drop is enough to get the chips to remain at safe levels then I doubt we'll see major performance decreases. Of course, this also assumes that those exact changes hold true across the board.
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I ran some tests of my own before and after the latest bios update for my Z790 Project Zero board and found around that 2% drop, and as you would think it's not noticeable. I'm no expert by any means, but just figured I'd add my findings. I'm going to go back to see how the voltages fare with this latest bios and my 13700K.
 
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