Intel Didn't Tell Government About Meltdown/Spectre Because They Couldn't Help With Fix

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Montu, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. Montu

    Montu [H]ard DCOTM x4

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    Back in January after the Meltdown/Spectre threat became public knowledge members of Congress sent letters to Intel and others to ask them why they didn't tell the government about the problems. According to letters sent back to Congress it came down to the fact that Intel didn't feel it was necessary because the government couldn't help them fix it. While I can kind of understand the response I still think Intel (and others) owed it to the government (and tax payers) to let them know that something was wrong with their processors that could affect national security. Check out all the letters here.

    That meant the cabal felt none of the US government, the United States Computer Emergency Readiness Team or the Computer Emergency Readiness Team Coordination Center would be useful in preparing a response to the mess it made. Once news of the flaws broke, Intel "expedited its plans to deploy the mitigations and promptly briefed governments and others about the issues."
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  2. tunatime

    tunatime 2[H]4U

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    This whole thing is a culster f...also the nsa is probably the one that made the bug in the frist place....
     
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  3. panhead

    panhead Gawd

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    When did Congress think that a corporation had any responsibility to anyone except their shareholders?
     
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  4. xrealm20

    xrealm20 Gawd

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    Wow....

    Well, not much will probably change from all of this, but at least we have more of an option to vote with our wallet these days.
     
  5. NickJames

    NickJames Viagra Required

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    When did corporations stop fearing government repercussion?
     
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  6. xrealm20

    xrealm20 Gawd

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    Oh, when millions of dollars lined the pockets of politicians.
     
  7. theplaidfad

    theplaidfad Lurker

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    When they started actually pretty much running it themselves? *cough* lobbyist *cough*
     
  8. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

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    Why did they tell the chinese government a week or more before they told the US? Because they thought the Chinese Government would be able to help?
     
  9. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ Little Bitch

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    not made exploited.
     
  10. Mugato

    Mugato Muh Feelz!

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    While it would have been nice of them to give the government a heads up, with all the leaks coming out of Washington, I bet that was a major concern.
     
  11. dargon

    dargon Limp Gawd

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    My guess, certain areas of government (cia, nsa, etc) knew about the bug and have been abusing it, but if they hadn't, Intel letting them know about it would have probably led to the weaponizing of it and Intel probably would have been told don't fix it.
     
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  12. Gweenz

    Gweenz [H]ard|Gawd

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    They didn't tell them because they didn't want their stock price to tumble.
     
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  13. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    I think this is mandated.
    The 'chips are complicated' meme is bullshit.. If the company that produces them doesn't even know what they are, jeez... even then, I would get it if its missed for a little while, but not for as long as it has been.
     
  14. [21CW]killerofall

    [21CW]killerofall Aliens...

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    The tin foil hat is strong with this one.
     
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  15. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    So the whole point of not alerting the government is the thought was they couldn't do anything?

    Intel: "yeah we realize all your systems were vulnerable, but you couldn't really help us try to fix it "
    Congressman pretending he knows anything about technology : "But we could have maybe taken some essential systems offline"
    Intel : "Yeah but that doesn't help us now does it?"
     
  16. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

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    When corporations (coughAPPLEcough) started to have more money in the bank then any world government.
     
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  17. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

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    Since forever? Or does working for a corporation magically absolve one of all other responsibilities?

    Hint: That isn't what the corporate veil is intended to do...
     
  18. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

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    Oh and dont pretend Donald or anyone he might pretend to listen to understands this.
     
  19. Damar

    Damar [H]ardness Supreme

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    Still true......


    Intel had no reason to tell Uncle Sam cause Uncle Sam is on the Intel payroll in more ways than one (and couldn't really do anything to discipline Intel anyway even if some renegade politician wanted to).

    Intel more feared the bad press and stock tanking so they kept it quiet..... vewy vewy quiet...

    "Shhhh, be vewy vewy quiet... we're dumping stocks before the word gets out!". :p
     
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  20. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    Probably a combination of not thinking they could help fix it, and not thinking that they could keep it a secret. People lost their crap when the public put the pieces together just a few days before the embargo date. Imagine if it had become public as soon as the issue had been discovered thanks to some loose lips. They haven't exactly had a great track record in regards to leaks lately.
     
  21. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    When the government became corporations.
     
  22. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm not so sure about that. Just look at the recent history of what the government has been trying with the cell phone makers.
     
  23. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They didn't tell the Chinese government. They told their Chinese corporate partners, whose communications are reasonably believed to be closely watched by the Chinese government.

    Where are your computer science and engineering credentials?

    In the pharmaceutical world, not knowing exactly what you're making is extremely common. You have a best guess that you know what 99% of it is, but that 1% can wreak all sorts of havoc in just the right set of conditions, which might be less than .1% of all possible conditions.
     
  24. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Pharmaceutical and complex chemical reactions are a different beast. Its bullshit, its bullshit and its bullshit... They knew, probably for years.
     
  25. [21CW]killerofall

    [21CW]killerofall Aliens...

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    Why do people often think that the government is responsible for security flaws when the most likely answer is that it is simply incompetence on behalf the the programers?
     
  26. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It took Takata at least 10 years to figure out their airbags were defective, and that was something that is supposed to be more stringently looked over than billions of transistor interactions.
     
  27. Batboy88

    Batboy88 Limp Gawd

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    It's bullshit all of it...then a bunch made fake videos with like a 20-40% hit to everything something retarded lol
     
  28. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Uhm... Are you new to this planet we call earth?

    A Corporations' responsibility is to it's shareholders alone.

    It fulfills this responsibility by maximising growth and profitability.

    Government regulations, laws and taxes directly conflict with that goal.

    Therefore a corporation's responsibility is directly opposed to the government.
     
  29. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Nope. The explosive they were using had known risks, but you know to save a buck.
     
  30. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

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    Nope, not new. I just understand what I'm talking about, and I assure you that the argument for the corporation as a legal person doesn't include "act completely unconstrained by all morality." Or did you think it was an accident that corporations are explicitly subject to criminal law?

    Maybe don't comment on things you don't actually understand? Or if you do, don't be a smart ass? If nothing else, you might embarrass yourself less.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  31. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Again. If they knew exactly what their product would do, they wouldn't have done it. If Intel knew that their chips would have this vulnerability, they wouldn't have implemented this type of OoO execution. Remember AMD also is vulnerable to Spectre.
     
  32. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    A corporation can be fined by the government but it cannot be jailed or forced to discontinue actions. Individuals within a corporation are subject to these restrictions, but they can be, and frequently are replaced. A corporation's goals only align with a government when the ramifications imposed by the government due to an action or practice directly outweigh the profits of the action or practice.

    Once again, a corporation has no responsibility to the government.
     
  33. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

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    A corporation can absolutely be forced to by the government to discontinue actions. Hell, it can be outright dissolved at the stroke of a pen...again, by the government. Where do you suppose the legal authority to create it came from in the first place? Really, are you even listening to yourself?

    Also, quit moving the goalposts. No one said anything about corporations having a responsibility to the government. Corporations, as legal persons, have a responsibility to society...just like everyone else. Again, they are explicitly subject to both civil and criminal action. Why might that be, do you imagine?

    But you know what? Believe whatever you like. I can't educate the entire Internet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  34. BloodyIron

    BloodyIron 2[H]4U

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    Equifax.

     
  35. trudude

    trudude [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well...that is a half truth. The government as a whole didn't know about Meltdown and Spectre. The NSA did...and they were the ones who asked for the backdoor to be put in place. It was not meant to be a backdoor to spy on Joe regular guy. It was a backdoor meant for select government connected "too big to fail" corporations to use to spy on their competition. Only occasionally was it used to take a look over the shoulder of Joe regular guy.
     
  36. trudude

    trudude [H]ard|Gawd

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    Oh and before anyone questions my credentials...I am a data scientist and computer engineer. I cannot mention specifically the entities I work for because that would put me in a precarious position. I can tell you however that the bugs are absolutely intentional from their inception. Sun SPARC, IBM Power, and HP Integrity systems are unaffected on purpose because the Feds knew they needed some level of security for themselves in case the bug was ever reverse engineered.
     
  37. trudude

    trudude [H]ard|Gawd

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    The admins of this site might find some interesting things looking at the IP logs for my account.
     
  38. GNUse_the_force

    GNUse_the_force Limp Gawd

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    With that im mind i wonder how long it will be until certain countries develop and use their own ARM / RISC silicon to run emulated x86 or native ARM OS and software.
     
  39. trudude

    trudude [H]ard|Gawd

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    Intel will have a fit.
     
  40. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    The government has papers and claims it has the ability to dissolve a corporation, but when was the last time it even threatened such a thing on a multi billion dollar corporate body? Moreover, how would it force the action? Is it going to take the corporation to jail? Is it going to detain the corporation? What's stopping a corporate body from shifting its assets to another country, where another government has no say in what it does?

    And simply put, corporations have an ethical and moral and even a legal responsibility to the public and government.

    That does not mean they have a practical responsibility.

    As I said before, we aren't talking about law, ethics, morality, or theory. We're talking about reality. All the government can do is fine. If a corporation commits an atrocity that nets them 2 billion dollars profit, and the government fines them 200 million, the corporation technically got in trouble, but they still have no REAL ramifications for doing the same thing again.