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Intel Devil's Canyon: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly @ [H]

MorgothPl said:
If by "5 ghz on air" he was talking on use such heatsinks as he shown on that picture, then no wonder noone can get that 5ghz in reviews.... same with dryice
Click to expand...


The fact of the matter is that Frank wasn't the only one spreading the 5GHz on air gospel.

Some of the folks that are "known for their overclocking" received processors that were center die cut and hand picked for them. Which honestly just makes it all that much worse for the enthusiast in my opinion.

Intel fubared the pooch on this one, plain and simple.
 
MorgothPl said:
If by "5 ghz on air" he was talking on use such heatsinks as he shown on that picture, then no wonder noone can get that 5ghz in reviews.... same with dryice
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter how big the heattsink is if the chip hits a (non-thermal) wall, which they do.
 
SonDa5 said:
What if this is all a cloud to get people to buy old Haswell CPUs?
Click to expand...

What do you think DC silicon actually is?

50920703.jpg
 
Bigbacon said:
still rocking a 920 @3.8ghz and I'm not even sure why I would need to upgrade it still.
Click to expand...

Also running a 920 with a milder overclock of 3 ghz. Does the 4790 justify a cpu upgrade yet? I am amazed at how well this processor has held up over the years. Mainly use my PC for games, not for media encoding etc.
 
Old_Way said:
My 2700K will be going a while longer it seems. Maybe by Christmas we'll see an another opportunity for upgrading.
Click to expand...

No kidding. I've been really happy with mine. The only reason I wanted to upgrade to the 4790k was because I've had a little upgrade itch and thought 5ghz would be fun.
 
lloose said:
No kidding. I've been really happy with mine. The only reason I wanted to upgrade to the 4790k was because I've had a little upgrade itch and thought 5ghz would be fun.
Click to expand...

You have a 2700K and can't hit 5Ghz?!? Give that puppy 1.5V and it should love it..Might not even need that much.
 
ccityinstaller said:
You have a 2700K and can't hit 5Ghz?!? Give that puppy 1.5V and it should love it..Might not even need that much.
Click to expand...

There were plenty of mediocre Sandys out there. I personally wanted to really get 5 GHz and it took me 2 2600k and 2 2700k chips before I sort of got there. Never quite prime95 stable 24/7 but good enough to use. That's with a custom water loop. More Sandys topped around 4.8 than 5+ imho.
 
SonDa5 said:
What if this is all a cloud to get people to buy old Haswell CPUs?


All ES DC samples. Lack luster performance.


Right now it seems wiser to buy the 4770k. :LOL:


:eek:
Click to expand...

Well if these are just "es" cpus, they sure do rock. Remember most es cpus are low clocked with terrible voltage applied.

I know these are declared as engineering samples but seriously when did we see experimental silicon do advertised clocks? These are normal cpus rebranded with new TIM.

I think you can still buy 2600k es' off of eBay that run at 2ghz.
 
Trimlock said:
Well if these are just "es" cpus, they sure do rock. Remember most es cpus are low clocked with terrible voltage applied.

I know these are declared as engineering samples but seriously when did we see experimental silicon do advertised clocks? These are normal cpus rebranded with new TIM.

I think you can still buy 2600k es' off of eBay that run at 2ghz.
Click to expand...

ES CPUs are often the exact same processor as their retail counterparts, with the same clock speeds and VIDs. The DC samples that were given to the press aren't experimental either, they are production silicon that's simply branded as an ES for the purposes of their issuance as review samples. Their date code is long after Haswell was released to the market.

Early ES samples of an unreleased product may indeed be prototypical or pre-production with bugs and errata present that aren't present in the production stepping, but a large quantity of ES chips are actual production processors that have simply been branded as ES so that they can be loaned by Intel to a review site or other eligible entity. Stepping is everything on an ES chip...
 
ES chips are not legally allowed to be sold.
Labelling them ES may help minimise how many review samples disappear.
When they emerge later, the "owners" and people they passed through could be traced and held to account.
 
phillyboy said:
No shit. You still get a processor that overclocks the same, has a 500 MHz higher base but runs cooler while doing it. Still a win-win...
Click to expand...

Right. Like I said before, as a "refresh" DC is just fine. It's all that 5 GHz hype that's spoiled this release. That aside, you still get a bad ass CPU. A 4790K at a stable 4.7 GHz is a monster processor.
 
What do you guys say about an upgrade from a i7 870 oc to 4ghz? Would it make such an impact as to justify the costs? I only use my PC for entertainement (gaming and movies). My screen is the 34 inch monitor from LG and my GPU is a 780 gtx.
I play a lot of Prepar3d sim and both gpu and cpu are important for a smooth play. Unfortunatly there are no comparison charts between these two CPUs.
 
MacLeod said:
Right. Like I said before, as a "refresh" DC is just fine. It's all that 5 GHz hype that's spoiled this release. That aside, you still get a bad ass CPU. A 4790K at a stable 4.7 GHz is a monster processor.
Click to expand...

Agreed :)
 
mihaieu said:
What do you guys say about an upgrade from a i7 870 oc to 4ghz? Would it make such an impact as to justify the costs? I only use my PC for entertainement (gaming and movies). My screen is the 34 inch monitor from LG and my GPU is a 780 gtx.
I play a lot of Prepar3d sim and both gpu and cpu are important for a smooth play. Unfortunatly there are no comparison charts between these two CPUs.
Click to expand...

Are you suffering any performance issues?
 
12 pages of fruitless discussion.
DC is a better chip with a very good price.
Intel marketing pulled out numbers out of their a$$e$? Yes!
Will it deceive buyers?Nope!
Anyone smart enough to reach 5GHz on a chip will read and research before committing the hard earned bitcoins on such a purchase.:rolleyes:
 
AFD said:
Not 100% sure, but I think it's a Scythe Orochi SCORC-1000..

zj8chDg.jpg
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That's what it certainly looks like, yet he mentions in his feed a few minutes later that he uses a Thermalright TR-22 merged with some CoolerMaster parts. I can't even locate the supposed TR-22 he mentions anywhere. They have an HR-22, but it looks nothing close to this.
 
@ the 4970k....not even stable at 5.0ghz as advertised.....think I'll keep my 2500k@5.3ghz (on air) for a few more years.....
Also they say Haswell cpus are suppose to be more energy efficient?? Not so according to benchmarks- http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1158&page=12
Sad, the 2500k, a 3 year old processor, is still out performing the newest and baddest Intel cpus this year(power consumption, overclocking, and peak performance)!!! Hopefully Intel returns from fantasy land and realizes that everything since the 2500k/2600k has been crap for enthusiasts!!

load (wPrime 1024M, peak during first minute) Watt Index
Intel Core i5-4670K 4.5G 156 130.00 %
Intel Core i5-3570K 4.5G 133 110.83 %
Intel Core i5-2500K 4.5G 130 108.33 %

Intel Core i5-4670K Stock 106 88.33 %
Intel Core i5-3570K Stock 107 89.17 %
Intel Core i5-2500K Stock 120 100.00 %
Haswell uses 40% more power to achieve a meager 4.5ghz overclock, whereas the 3 year old 2500k, uses only 8% more power to achieve 4.5ghz.......
 
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SeanJ76 said:
@ the 4970k....not even stable at 5.0ghz as advertised.....think I'll keep my 2500k@5.3ghz (on air) for a few more years.....
Also they say Haswell cpus are suppose to be more energy efficient?? Not so according to benchmarks- http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1158&page=12
Sad, the 2500k, a 3 year old processor, is still out performing the newest and baddest Intel cpus this year(power consumption, overclocking, and peak performance)!!! Hopefully Intel returns from fantasy land and realizes that everything since the 2500k/2600k has been crap for enthusiasts!!
Click to expand...

Except a 4.5 ghz 4770k would benchmark faster than your 5.3 ghz 2500k, which is also no where near the "average" of what a SB will OC to.
 
SeanJ76 said:
@ the 4970k....not even stable at 5.0ghz as advertised.....think I'll keep my 2500k@5.3ghz (on air) for a few more years.....
Also they say Haswell cpus are suppose to be more energy efficient?? Not so according to benchmarks- http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1158&page=12
Sad, the 2500k, a 3 year old processor, is still out performing the newest and baddest Intel cpus this year(power consumption, overclocking, and peak performance)!!! Hopefully Intel returns from fantasy land and realizes that everything since the 2500k/2600k has been crap for enthusiasts!!

load (wPrime 1024M, peak during first minute) Watt Index
Intel Core i5-4670K 4.5G 156 130.00 %
Intel Core i5-3570K 4.5G 133 110.83 %
Intel Core i5-2500K 4.5G 130 108.33 %

Intel Core i5-4670K Stock 106 88.33 %
Intel Core i5-3570K Stock 107 89.17 %
Intel Core i5-2500K Stock 120 100.00 %
Haswell uses 40% more power to achieve a meager 4.5ghz overclock, whereas the 3 year old 2500k, uses only 8% more power to achieve 4.5ghz.......
Click to expand...


Do you know what the prime 1024 performance rate was? Your logic is not complete. Over time the 2500k will work at that power out put longer. You have shared just a moments load measurement. You have to know the time duration to accomplish the same work load to fully measure the processing performance and energy efficiency of the CPUs in that review.
 
SeanJ76 said:
I'll keep my 2500k@5.3ghz (on air) for a few more years.....
Click to expand...
Stable? I was able to take a quick screenshot of mine @5GHz but that's about it. So if you run yours at 5.3GHz daily then I ask for a video showing your setup, or it's not real... ;)

What voltage? H²O?
 
According to Vortez,a s they are the only one who did the test I was personally interested in, there is 6 FPS difference between 4790K and 2500K in Thief 1920x1080. 3 iterations of CPUs, and they barely beat the 3 years old silicon :) 2500k was one of my best purchases in hardware world I ever did.
 
MorgothPl said:
According to Vortez,a s they are the only one who did the test I was personally interested in, there is 6 FPS difference between 4790K and 2500K in Thief 1920x1080. 3 iterations of CPUs, and they barely beat the 3 years old silicon :) 2500k was one of my best purchases in hardware world I ever did.
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Thanks for pointing to it, it was my 1st visit there. I see they tested all CPU at base clock speed so the 2500K was at 3.3GHz while the 4970K was @ 4GHz.

For all of us with 2500K and 2600K seeking the same answer, it would be interesting to compare a the new DCs at base clock speed with our current CPU overclocked to match same speed:

2500K @3.5GHz with a 4690K @3.5GHz
2600K @4GHz with a 4790K @4GHz

We already pointed Kyle to something like this but I think something similar was done with previous gen which share same perf (DC has new TIM which only impact temp) so results exists, I just haven't looked for those yet.
 
MorgothPl said:
According to Vortez,a s they are the only one who did the test I was personally interested in, there is 6 FPS difference between 4790K and 2500K in Thief 1920x1080. 3 iterations of CPUs, and they barely beat the 3 years old silicon :) 2500k was one of my best purchases in hardware world I ever did.
Click to expand...

I remember reading that game is limited to max 3 thread CPU processing. Not really a good example to show the full performance available from 4970k.

I owned a 5ghz air cooled 2500k and its a great CPU but its no match to a 4790k in terms of raw processing power potential.
 
doz said:
Im sure you guys can figure out from there how big of a jump it would be from a 2600k to a 4790k.
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Sure but like SinDa5 was saying, I think there is more than a few MHz difference between both, the raw processing power potentialis is different with new instructions and everything else.

edit: I looked at the ocaholic link after replying and everything is there... a 2600K and a 4770K both @ 4.5GHz. While there is some differences at low res, I don't see any reason to upgrade when looking at 1080p numbers.
 
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Yep, think that is what we have been saying......hard pressed to go from a high clocked 2600K to anything right now for gaming needs.
 
doz said:
Great. So far 1 person out of how many reviews? So most likely looking at 5% of the chips just as people have been speculating. Most people are scared of 1.4v these days anyways so it wouldnt matter. Everyone hears 1.35v and they call it quits regardless of temps.
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Yea, I'm scared just mentioning it, but seeing the temps with 1.4v isn't scary at all. 1.5v does how ever look like it will require some H20.
 
Intel finally gives enthusiasts some horsepower


http://www.itworld.com/hardware/422018/intel-finally-gives-enthusiast-some-horsepower


I knew this article was crap when I read it. We had a discussion about it in the office a few days back. One guy said it was a legitimate upgrade and going to be respected by the enthusiaist community with people lining up to purchase from Microcenter. That it was a good move and something to excite the enthusiasts. I said no way. My two year old 4770K is within 10% as fast with software overclocking all cores to 4.0ghz and no voltage mods. Two years? 10%? LAME!

Now 5%? lamesause!
 
doz said:
No one buys a 4970k to run at stock...............
Click to expand...

Why not? 4790 vs 4790k is still a 400MHz increase for only $25 more.

If I can figure out if DC temps are actually any better, or at least the same, I'll probably be swapping my stock 4770k for a stock 4790k. My options for cooling and power delivery in a small ITX build are limiting factors.
 
Archaea said:
Intel finally gives enthusiasts some horsepower


http://www.itworld.com/hardware/422018/intel-finally-gives-enthusiast-some-horsepower


I knew this article was crap when I read it. We had a discussion about it in the office a few days back. One guy said it was a legitimate upgrade and going to be respected by the enthusiaist community with people lining up to purchase from Microcenter. That it was a good move and something to excite the enthusiasts. I said no way. My two year old 4770K is within 10% as fast with software overclocking all cores to 4.0ghz and no voltage mods. Two years? 10%? LAME!

Now 5%? lamesause!
Click to expand...

How did you get a 4770K a year before launch? It's been out almost exactly one year right now.
 
AFD said:
Why not? 4790 vs 4790k is still a 400MHz increase for only $25 more.

If I can figure out if DC temps are actually any better, or at least the same, I'll probably be swapping my stock 4770k for a stock 4790k. My options for cooling and power delivery in a small ITX build are limiting factors.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you are right. I was under the impression that the non-k variant was the same stock clocks. My apologies.
 
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