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Intel Devil's Canyon: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly @ [H]

mdswish said:
I don't doubt that, but supposedly the 5.5 number was achieved on air cooling if you believe the tweet that was sent out late last week from Computex.
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In theory LN2 is Nitrogen and that is a gas. :) Creative marketing 101. :p
 
Well I guess they don't build them like they used to. My old 2600K is STILL running @ 5.0 GHz 24-hour prime stable. I really am looking forward to the day I can retire this old beast. Guess not yet.
 
Honestly, at this point and reading most of the articles regarding Haswell refresh chips, if you have the money and can wait, Haswell-E chips will arrive in the Fall. If the i7-5820K ends up being 6 cores and just a tad over $340 for a 4790K such as $399 or something, it may be better to move to that processor. The other reason is longevity given it'll be the first consumer level processor with DDR4 memory controller. The downside is not having PCI Express 4.0 controller, but given that current video cards have not saturated PCI-E 3.0 yet except in the rare cases you are using more than 2 video cards of the last 2 years, PCI-E 3.0 should suffice for the next few years.

On the other hand, if you already have a 3770K or 4770K and given the marginal improvements in the 4790K, you may as well stick to what you already have. Wait another year, maybe 2015-ish to 2016 if it gets delayed, and Intel Skylake with DDR4 memory compatibility will be the worthwhile upgrade from your current Ivy Bridge or Haswell processor. By then, DDR4 memory DIMMs should have dropped or normalized. Skylake is also supposedly to have PCI Express 4.0 support.

Lastly, if you're on a 2500K or Sandy Bridge series, non-E, processor or earlier, you have two choices-- move to Haswell refresh chips or wait for Skylake. I'd honestly not wait for Broadwell given it won't have DDR4 memory compatibility when it's released, and may only be another marginal upgrade over what you currently have, Haswell or not.

That's my opinion though.
 
From a 2500K I was looking to upgrade to the i5-4690K instead of the i7-4790K and I have yet to find a review about it. Maybe with no HT and 2MB of cache less it will be able to OC better? I would also turn off integrated graphics.
 
Would also be prudent to disable the iGPU when OC'ing, yes?
 
ThisMonsterLives said:
Okay, so Intel lied.
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This is what is confusing to me on this. I have worked with Intel for a LONG TIME now. I have never seen the company "lie." I have seen it come up short on broad statements, which I can contribute to aggressive marketing. But is out of character for Intel not deliver on something as specific as these 5GHz on air statement. I do not think it would have made these 5GHz claims knowing it was not going to deliver. There is something more to this story than we all know and I am not hearing anything through back channels to explain what is happening here.

Based on the data we have with these first ES 4790K processors, there seems to have been a collossal fuckup made somewhere in the Intel bureaucracy / hierarchy / communication.
 
If the Intel president made that statement mistake you sure as hell know he won't be held responsible. Shit rolls down hill...
 
Rhialto said:
From a 2500K I was looking to upgrade to the i5-4690K instead of the i7-4790K and I have yet to find a review about it. Maybe with no HT and 2MB of cache less it will be able to OC better? I would also turn off integrated graphics.
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None of those in the wild yet. I tried to source one.
 
Can I ask a question for Kyle and the [H] Team please... :cool:

What input voltages did you try?

I've found I need at least 2.1v when going to high clocks on water on my de-lidded 4770K, and makes a large difference in stability. I was hoping the improved capacitors on the back would help this matter less for DC, guess you'd know how true this is?

Also, did you try clocking with HT off at all?


Thanks, much appreciated. ;)
 
Sigh. My wallet is happy to hear this, but my upgrade itch will continue to burn for another year or so. With every processor release, my 2600k further cements itself as the greatest PC purchase of all time for me.
 
Disappointed but still going forward with my upgrade to the 4790K, 5.5 years with my 920 is long enough.
 
Definitely the longest I've gone without upgrading as well. Still humming along here on my X58-based Socket 1366 system running the Hexacore Core i7 Extreme 980X & a GTX680. I still don't have a real necessity to upgrade at this point. Sure it sucks the juice.. but performance wise it's just fine.
 
Maybe the tweet was from a hacker but Intel were too embarrassed to reveal it :p
 
PureBooYah said:
Disappointed but still going forward with my upgrade to the 4790K, 5.5 years with my 920 is long enough.
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Wow, long time. I have three friends still on a 920. They saw Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, and Haswell, but have not considered upgrading. The only thing they have upgraded is their video card such as an Nvidia 760/770-series or AMD 7900-series card.

The Haswell refresh might be a worthwhile upgrade for them as well.
 
Is this the beginning of the end for Intel? Have they spent there load?
 
On the bright side, I don't feel bad now about intel retail edge offering the 4770k instead of the 4790k, I got a great deal on still pretty much top end cpu for 1150.
 
p3sty said:
Is this the beginning of the end for Intel? Have they spent there load?
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I don't think so. They're still coming out with improvements each generation. Yeah they're only 5-7% jumps but that's still better than AMD who went BACKWARDS with Bulldozer and while they went forward with Piledriver, that came out in 2012 and it's the last "performance" CPU we've seen from them since and may be the last. So as long as Intel is still making performance gains each generation regardless how small and especially considering how far CPU performance is outpacing actual CPU workload demand and everything going to low powered tablet processors, I'd still say Intel is still moving in the right direction.
 
All in all it seem like an okay refresh, nothing overly exciting, but because of that bold 5GHz claim this has gone from about what we all expected, to a pretty major let down.


Here's hoping X99 doesn't disappoint, I want a good reason to upgrade from my 930. Hopefully Intel gives us gamers a compelling reason to choose X99 over Z97 beyond the PCI-e lanes.
 
Tych-0 said:
All in all it seem like an okay refresh, nothing overly exciting, but because of that bold 5GHz claim this has gone from about what we all expected, to a pretty major let down.
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Agreed. As a "refresh" this isn't that bad. Slightly better overclocking with slightly better temps. If it weren't for all those claims of 5 gig clocks, I don't think this would be that bad of a PR black eye for Intel.
 
Could it be the ES cpu's, will things likely change with retail ones?
 
Dildonose said:
Very disappointing what with all the hype. Just as well I suppose because my two year old Asus Z77 Pro took a dump and I RMA'd it. May as well run my 2500K a bit longer. :|
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Greetings,

If you would like an update to your case, please feel free to contact me directly at cl-mark@asus.com. I am here to help where needed in this case.

Regards,

Mark
ASUS Customer Loyalty
 
A question for Kyle, Was this by chance the same ES 4790K that PCPer used for their review? they had very similar results and im just wondering if its related or two different samples having similar results gives us a better picture, or potential picture of clocks expected. Maybe production chips will be better, but doesnt look like it...
 
I just talked to another ODM on this....

"2 among about 70 pcs of I7-4790K can achieve 5GHz on air and water"

I asked for more clarification on what "air and water" means exactly, but surely this further supports the conclusions I reached in our article.
 
Whoa, am I high or did we all just witness a random act of ASUS customer service?!?
 
6 degrees difference at load doesn't sound that great at first, but considering the stock voltage the 4790k runs at I'd say the new TIM works quite well.

However we need more detailed temp testing.
 
I have the 4790K running on the ASUS Z97-Deluxe now at optimized default BIOS settings. Went in to AI Suite and set the multiplier at 44. Has been running Prime95 for 1.5 hours. Highest per core temps are 63/70/69/64. CPUz reports 1.249v core voltage and the AI Suite reports 1.264v.
 
Maybe this isn't [H]ard, but am I the only one thinking a 300MHz OC to the turbo frequency isn't even worth it? I get perhaps there may be a marginal boost by having it run 24/7 rather than in turbo but still...perhaps the first chip I wouldn't even bother overclocking, ever. Going from 3.4/3.8 - 4.7-8 on my Sandy Bridge is an awesome feeling. I can only imagine the "Meh" of running Prime95 24 hours to lock in a whopping ~7% increase.
 
Let's keep this thread on topic please. Start your own otherwise. - Kyle
 
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NM...I see the other post was deleted.

I think going from a 970 up to one of these bad boys is still a good upgrade...not great but good. Unfortunately no software I personally use today can push even my 970 really hard.
 
pcjunkie said:
NM...I see the other post was deleted.

I think going from a 970 up to one of these bad boys is still a good upgrade...not great but good. Unfortunately no software I personally use today can push even my 970 really hard.
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I went from an i7 920 (ran at 3,8GHz at stock voltage since 2009, incredible chip!) to a 4771 and despite believing there would be negligible differences in everyday usage scenarios, even on trivial tasks the Haswell feels much, much faster.
 
Did some checking. The guy who tweeted the 5ghz remark is a principal engineer. ...that's pretty high up the food chain....he should know better...this is the kind of thing that sees you losing your job for talking-out-of-turn.
 
octoberasian said:
Wow, long time. I have three friends still on a 920. They saw Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, and Haswell, but have not considered upgrading. The only thing they have upgraded is their video card such as an Nvidia 760/770-series or AMD 7900-series card.

The Haswell refresh might be a worthwhile upgrade for them as well.
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Yep... I'm still on a 1366 Bloomfield Xeon, 12GB, 660Ti. While yes, I'd love to update everything completely, I really haven't seen any compelling reason to do it yet. I do some pretty decent gaming sessions, but mostly use this system for circuit design, PCB layout, etc. Works more than great for that, and plays games satisfactorily so far. I'm sure I'll be seeing more games eventually that will start killing it, but so far at 1080p... Nope...

This is the first time since I got into computers (back before they were even upgradeable (C64)) that I've had a PC for this long, and didn't buy new parts just to buy new parts. I've had this thing for years now... I guess that's both good and bad. Thing is, I don't think this CPU will push a high end GPU enough, so I haven't updated the GPU. Looking for something in a CPU to compel me forward. :D (DDR4 support will likely do the trick I suppose.)
 
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I really do not know enough about engineering samples vs their retail counterpart but I want to assume their are no differences other than the engineering samples being the first of that particular production run design wise. Nothing is changed. After all we are talking years of design built upon decades of research.

With that said, I've been supplying workstations to engineering firms the past decade and I have products all over that have been designed using my boxes. It's not uncommon at all for a part to contentiously be redesigned to reduce costs, improve performance even days up to the start of manufacturing.

I hope this is the case. Part of me, and I'm sure I am being naive here, wants to believe Intel is waiting til the last minute to turn on the good stuff, whatever that may be so these CPU's run at 5ghz.

Did I mention I was probably being naive?
 
silencer51 said:
Sounds good. Which AIO do you use?
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Full Koolance system. Specs and link in the article.

dr/owned said:
Did some checking. The guy who tweeted the 5ghz remark is a principal engineer. ...that's pretty high up the food chain....he should know better...this is the kind of thing that sees you losing your job for talking-out-of-turn.
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Oh yes, he is VERY high up the food chain. I have met him on occasion at Intel events. That is what is confusing about all of this. Maybe we are all "doing it wrong?"
 
Disappointing ...

Going to keep my x58 setups for a good while yet it seems.
 
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