Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K, i5-12600K Specs, Pricing & New TDP!

kirbyrj said:
People keep saying that, but you still can't buy PS5s and XBXs and they don't cryptomine at all. There's more going on here than just cryptomining. I don't know if I'd bet on a 20% lower MB price anytime soon.
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The intersection of the supply and demand curve IS the one true God, but there is more to it than just crypto. Crypto is certainly one element, but there is also skyrocketing demand from mobile, IoT, and "connecting the everything" including cars, washing machines, fridges, you name it.

Add to that continued pandemic related labor and supply distruptions to exacerbate things.

The supply constriction is not just "video cards" or "GPU"s but it is chip fab capacity in general. They just haven't grown fast enough to keep up with demand. (though there are a bunch set to come online in the next couple of years)

As the whole market has gone "connected" video cards and gaming consoles are competing with th ewhole market, not just with other things that use GPU's.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
The intersection of the supply and demand curve IS the one true God, but there is more to it than just crypto. Crypto is certainly one element, but there is also skyrocketing demand from mobile, IoT, and "connecting the everything" including cars, washing machines, fridges, you name it.

Add to that continued pandemic related labor and supply distruptions to exacerbate things.

The supply constriction is not just "video cards" or "GPU"s but it is chip fab capacity in general. They just haven't grown fast enough to keep up with demand. (though there are a bunch set to come online in the next couple of years)

As the whole market has gone "connected" video cards and gaming consoles are competing with th ewhole market, not just with other things that use GPU's.
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The point is that you can't guarantee a 20% drop in MB pricing like the person I was quoting seemed to be doing.
 
pendragon1 said:
psu depends on gpu. air cooler dont seem to be up to snuff except for the d15 which gets overwhelmed during sustained full loads. even 360 aios are being worked hard.
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GiGaBiTe said:
Liquid cooling, at minimum a 360mm radiator if you plan to run the CPU hard. You may get away with a 240/280mm CLC for more moderate loads.
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I would wait for H610 motherboard with 12900KF without overclocking it. I thought air cooler would be enough for that.
 
If I'm AMD, I'm pretty happy right now.

Intel threw literally everything at their disposal into 12th gen, and all it basically did was tie the CPU I launched the year before. And with further Windows 11 patches for the AMD performance issues likely to trickle in across the winter, who knows how things will look leading into the Ryzen 6000 launch - where all I'm basically needing to do to retake the performance lead is put a new cache design atop the CPU architecture I launched 18 months prior.

From there, my efforts can go fully into Zen 4, where next-generation IPC improvements will get to meet DDR5... after its prices have fallen.
 
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Furious_Styles said:
Yeah I think we can put our money down that Intel is still going to do their tick-tock cycle and raptor lake will be it before we go to LGA 1750 or whatever it will be.
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Alder Lake is on Intel's 10ESF architecture, or 10nm Enhanced Super Fin, which is Intel's 4th generation of 10nm. This is technically the "optimization" stage of Intel's "Process, Architecture, Optimization" cycle that superseded the tick-tock cycle. This is supposed to be Intel's last generation of 10nm parts as they're moving to 7nm for the next one, called "Intel 4." Raptor Lake is going to be a refresh of 10ESF.
Centauri said:
If I'm AMD, I'm pretty happy right now.

Intel threw literally everything at their disposal into 12th gen, and all it basically did was tie the CPU I launched in 2019. And with further Windows 11 patches for the AMD performance issues likely to trickle in across the winter, who knows how things will look leading into the Ryzen 6000 launch - where all I'm basically needing to do to retake the performance lead is put a new cache design atop the CPU architecture I launched 18 months prior.

From there, my efforts can go fully into Zen 4, where next-generation IPC improvements will get to meet DDR5... after its prices have fallen.
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Intel's 10nm was introduced in parts starting in 2018, so that might be while it feels that way. Intel was having so many issues with 10nm that this is the first high-power desktop part we've seen. And just like that it will be gone after next year.
 
Centauri said:
If I'm AMD, I'm pretty happy right now.

Intel threw literally everything at their disposal into 12th gen, and all it basically did was tie the CPU I launched the year before. And with further Windows 11 patches for the AMD performance issues likely to trickle in across the winter, who knows how things will look leading into the Ryzen 6000 launch - where all I'm basically needing to do to retake the performance lead is put a new cache design atop the CPU architecture I launched 18 months prior.

From there, my efforts can go fully into Zen 4, where next-generation IPC improvements will get to meet DDR5... after its prices have fallen.
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Totally agreed. Think of it this way. Intel finally beats AMD's 5000 series.... which was released last year....And the new 3d CPU's coming out in what 2-3 months? Yeah AMD will be just fine.

The issue with Intel will be keeping up with stock. Looks like you can easily pick up an AMD CPU right now. Right now we aren't even sure how many CPU's Intel has ready ya know?
 
Armenius said:
Alder Lake is on Intel's 10ESF architecture, or 10nm Enhanced Super Fin, which is Intel's 4th generation of 10nm. This is technically the "optimization" stage of Intel's "Process, Architecture, Optimization" cycle that superseded the tick-tock cycle. This is supposed to be Intel's last generation of 10nm parts as they're moving to 7nm for the next one, called "Intel 4." Rocket Lake is going to be a refresh of 10ESF.

Intel's 10nm was introduced in parts starting in 2018, so that might be while it feels that way. Intel was having so many issues with 10nm that this is the first high-power desktop part we've seen. And just like that it will be gone after next year.
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Do you mean raptor lake will be the 7nm refresh?
 
Armenius said:
List of games that do not currently work with Alder Lake. There is a workaround included in the BIOS of most supported motherboards that is linked in the KB article.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000088261/processors.html
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The games work fine on Alder Lake, Windows "security" DRM is broken (as usual) and thinks your hardware is malicious (E-cores).
How nice of them to lock you out of your own hardware and what you choose to do with it (eg play games).
Honestly - people need to stop bending over for Microsoft and corporate-sponsored "security".
 
Brackle said:
Totally agreed. Think of it this way. Intel finally beats AMD's 5000 series.... which was released last year....And the new 3d CPU's coming out in what 2-3 months? Yeah AMD will be just fine.

The issue with Intel will be keeping up with stock. Looks like you can easily pick up an AMD CPU right now. Right now we aren't even sure how many CPU's Intel has ready ya know?
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Exactly.... AMD shows off 3Dcache and up to 20% boosts in games that love cache (which are the same games that love single thread clockspeed). 3-4 months later Intel releases a chip that mostly ends in a draw... but does manage a few 10% wins, but it also burns a 100 watts more doing it.

Yes Lisa is not worried right now in the least. From what I see... AMD is going to drop a refresh in a few months that should best Intel by 10% again. Oh and its a drop in upgrade for anyone that went AMD in the last few years.

Intel has done AMD a huge favor with Alder... they aren't really going to stop the bleeding to AMD with Alder. The few enthusiast Intel die hards upgrading from DDR3 gen Intel stuff have been resistant to AMD anyway obviously or they would have already switched. However the mainstream OEMs... should get DDR5 out the door and prices heading to parity. AMD will have none of the will I won't I should I shouldn't issues with DDR5 when zen 4 comes.
 
Armenius said:
List of games that do not currently work with Alder Lake. There is a workaround included in the BIOS of most supported motherboards that is linked in the KB article.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000088261/processors.html
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Its another instance of.....why the heck does it seem like these companies where blindsided by this? I have to imagine these issues have been known about for at least a couple of months.

Yet, here we are, waiting for patches for major games to work, waiting for mounting brackets for major cooler brands to work. So weird.
 
Brackle said:
Totally agreed. Think of it this way. Intel finally beats AMD's 5000 series.... which was released last year....And the new 3d CPU's coming out in what 2-3 months? Yeah AMD will be just fine.

The issue with Intel will be keeping up with stock. Looks like you can easily pick up an AMD CPU right now. Right now we aren't even sure how many CPU's Intel has ready ya know?
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Stock on these chips seems good. Better then any recent AMD release. My MC still has stock of all 3 12th gen SKUs.
 
havoc lingers said:
Why would throttle performance? For H510 chipset Intel stated it works for 11900K, the same was for H410.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/196646/intel-h510-chipset/compatible.html

I assume H610 shall support 12900 the same way or there's some reason against it?
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support is different than "really works". You can put a 3950X on a lot of X370 boards- that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Why buy a top-end CPU and a low-end budget chipset?
 
lopoetve said:
support is different than "really works". You can put a 3950X on a lot of X370 boards- that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Why buy a top-end CPU and a low-end budget chipset?
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I don't get it either. People always want to cheap out on the MB.
 
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X370 is a low-end, budget chipset? Absolutely not. It's basically identical to X470.

And there were some amazingly built X370 boards, like ASRock's Taichi. Mine ran a 3950X like a dream.
 
Centauri said:
X370 is a low-end, budget chipset? Absolutely not. It's basically identical to X470.

And there were some amazingly built X370 boards, like ASRock's Taichi. Mine ran a 3950X like a dream.
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"Doesn't mean it's a good idea" doesn't mean that it's a bad idea either. There were good boards on an (arguably) not-amazing platform. But there were also a lot with very poor VRM design and other issues - I had one. Why buy a 12900KF and stick it on a budget chipset, combined with (likely) a budget board? You're almost certainly going to lose features if you do that - and it's also far more likely to have limited VRM capability/etc, since those are almost always built to a much lower-budget than a Z690 board would be.
 
lopoetve said:
"Doesn't mean it's a good idea" doesn't mean that it's a bad idea either. There were good boards on an (arguably) not-amazing platform. But there were also a lot with very poor VRM design and other issues - I had one. Why buy a 12900KF and stick it on a budget chipset, combined with (likely) a budget board? You're almost certainly going to lose features if you do that - and it's also far more likely to have limited VRM capability/etc, since those are almost always built to a much lower-budget than a Z690 board would be.
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I saw one article that had a 30% decline (throttled) in performance due to the power draw of AL and weak VRMs on cheap z690 boards let alone super budget h610 ones.
 
lopoetve said:
"Doesn't mean it's a good idea" doesn't mean that it's a bad idea either. There were good boards on an (arguably) not-amazing platform. But there were also a lot with very poor VRM design and other issues - I had one. Why buy a 12900KF and stick it on a budget chipset, combined with (likely) a budget board? You're almost certainly going to lose features if you do that - and it's also far more likely to have limited VRM capability/etc, since those are almost always built to a much lower-budget than a Z690 board would be.
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But x370 and x470 were state of the art back in their days on the regular PC side, not budget board. Someone buying a 3600 on a nice x570 and one day changing it for a 5700x or a 5950x if he has a multithread workload seem like a nice option to have. Same for the going from a 1700x to a 3900x on a x370, that do make a lot of sense to me.
 
LukeTbk said:
But x370 and x470 were state of the art back in their days on the regular PC side, not budget board. Someone buying a 3600 on a nice x570 and one day changing it for a 5700x or a 5950x if he has a multithread workload seem like a nice option to have. Same for the going from a 1700x to a 3900x on a x370, that do make a lot of sense to me.
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Sure. If the board could take it. There’s a reason there were a lot of Google sheets on VRM compatibility.

That being said, this is more like putting a 3950 on an A320 or B350 - whatever the budget chipsets back then were (lord if I remember). x370 was at least the flagship then, but no one was sticking top end procs on basic budget boards if they could avoid it, especially older gen ones.
 
lopoetve said:
"Doesn't mean it's a good idea" doesn't mean that it's a bad idea either. There were good boards on an (arguably) not-amazing platform. But there were also a lot with very poor VRM design and other issues - I had one. Why buy a 12900KF and stick it on a budget chipset, combined with (likely) a budget board? You're almost certainly going to lose features if you do that - and it's also far more likely to have limited VRM capability/etc, since those are almost always built to a much lower-budget than a Z690 board would be.
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I seem to remember videos of a320 boards doing just fine with a 3950x. Maybe “weak” vrms are fine when you’re not doing the equivalent of plugging in an iron every time you hit “render” in blender?
 
Randall Stephens said:
I seem to remember videos of a320 boards doing just fine with a 3950x. Maybe “weak” vrms are fine when you’re not doing the equivalent of plugging in an iron every time you hit “render” in blender?
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Even then, how often did they throttle down due to not providing the needed voltages? I honestly don’t know; I tend to buy flagship, but I’m curious.
 
lopoetve said:
Even then, how often did they throttle down due to not providing the needed voltages? I honestly don’t know; I tend to buy flagship, but I’m curious.
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Not so much, what ended up happening is very few A320’s got bios updates that allowed for the Ryzen 9’s and even then it was things like board X revision 1 doesn’t get it but revision 1.2 does. You could get stock speeds on supported ram but you very much had to stay on the beaten path. I had one friend who updated his 1700 to a 3900 and kept his board and Ram. And while he didn’t exactly regret it he does wish he had put that money into a newer/better GPU instead.
 
schoolslave said:
The games work fine on Alder Lake, Windows "security" DRM is broken (as usual) and thinks your hardware is malicious (E-cores).
How nice of them to lock you out of your own hardware and what you choose to do with it (eg play games).
Honestly - people need to stop bending over for Microsoft and corporate-sponsored "security".
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It's denuvo, not Microsoft, causing the problem, from what I read.
 
lopoetve said:
Even then, how often did they throttle down due to not providing the needed voltages? I honestly don’t know; I tend to buy flagship, but I’m curious.
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I think they were throttling to base during torture testing but were boosting close to normal in gaming. It’s dumb, don’t do it, but it wasn’t horribly gimped I don’t recall
 
lopoetve said:
support is different than "really works". You can put a 3950X on a lot of X370 boards- that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Why buy a top-end CPU and a low-end budget chipset?
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Would B660+ 12900 work with air cooler and no OC? Which cooler if yes?
chameleoneel said:
Here's a Techpowerup article about using a 3900x on a "cheap B350" motherboard
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-3900x-tested-on-cheap-b350-motherboard/
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I've also read this some time ago so I naturally assume it can work with Intel high end CPU and H510/H610.
 
havoc lingers said:
Would B660+ 12900 work with air cooler and no OC? Which cooler if yes?

I've also read this some time ago so I naturally assume it can work with Intel high end CPU and H510/H610.
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You can boot a 12900 without a heat sink - the question is why? Why not buy a Z690?
 
lopoetve said:
You can boot a 12900 without a heat sink - the question is why? Why not buy a Z690?
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I don't need 690. I only want basic MoBo which works with 12900KF. I'm wondering did anyone try H510+11900 test and how does it work? I would assume H610 chipset would work the same.
 
havoc lingers said:
I don't need 690. I only want basic MoBo which works with 12900KF. I'm wondering did anyone try H510+11900 test and how does it work? I would assume H610 chipset would work the same.
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The trick here, is there is a big difference in the stock/default turbo behavior between the 11900k and the 12900k.

The 11900k only turbos at full power, for about 1 minute. And then it will downclock to 125w power usage. The 12900k's default behavior is to try and push its full 240w as long as possible. Its likely going to be a lot harder on VRMs than an 11900k.

That said, you should be able to limit its max TDP in the bios. 150w for example, is still good performance.
 
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havoc lingers said:
I don't need 690. I only want basic MoBo which works with 12900KF. I'm wondering did anyone try H510+11900 test and how does it work? I would assume H610 chipset would work the same.
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