Intel Core i9-10900K benchmarks have leaked, and it's still slower than the Ryzen 9 3900X

[blandead]

What did you expect from 14nm, they've basically reached the highest clock speed and core count without starting a fire.

It'll buy them another 6 months, I guess.

 

[ZeroBarrier]

It's a pretty heavy spin, attacks and exploits are now a PLUS, because you know about them. Ignoring the ones that haven't been found, or the obvious tradeoff that was made for years to sacrifice security for speed.

Also, they've had three years to tear into Zen, so I'd expect the ratio of exploits to be 3:5.

They haen't had 3 years to tear into Zen. Zen 1 and Zen 2 are different. Maybe do some research before spreading misinformation next time.

 

[Operations]

A bit faster..a bit slower i don't think that will be the most deciding factor. I think the price will be, since Intel will not be able to charge AMD price times 2 anymore (give or take). As you can see in this current topic (and just about all the conversions about this topic) there are Intel and AMD people.

If Intel is able to charge a price which is sort of the same as the AMD direct competitor, the Intel people will not switch. And since the AMD people will only switch (maybe even not then) if Intel will add a CPU with a bigger bang for buck than they do at the moment. But that is a big IF....

Of course i am not talking about the people who really need and USE the extra cores AMD has got, they should really go for AMD at the moment. Except when the used software works better with Intel CPU's of course. So it often comes down to price and/or use case.

 

[atp1916]

It's cute the article linked in OP makes no mention to power draw.

Everyone and their grandma knows full well these upcoming Intel chips are going to blow AMD out of the water on the actual power draw at the wall.

 

[Hagrid]

It's absolutely a spin, but understand that these newer iterations of Skylake also include hardware mitigations.


Sure, but Zen represents some fraction of a fraction of the total installed base. Skylake is literally everywhere.

There's still significantly more value in targeting and protecting Skylake versus Zen, but that trend reverses if / when the Zen install base grows to something more significant.

Well it will soon be the other way around.

 

[ZeroBarrier]

Well it will soon be the other way around.

Soon? Not likely. Maybe in a decade or 2, but I expect things to change drastically well before then.

Let's stop pretending like the enthusiast space is bigger than it really is, a niche.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

there are Intel and AMD people.

Be careful with labels.

While positions on these companies by individual posters may be clear on certain topics, implicit support is rare.

For example, while I find this topic silly in that the advantages of one CPU are tested while the advantages of the other are ignored, if you were to intuit what I'd actually recommend to purchasers from my statements addressing the topic you'd be dead wrong.

I'm a fan of performance and finding the right tool for the job. I've been doing this long enough that I've recommended and recommended against every company here.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Well it will soon be the other way around.

Not soon, really -- AMD doesn't have the inertia to replace Skylake in the market the same way Intel replaced Haswell with Skylake.

 

[blackmomba]

Be careful with labels.

This coming from the guy who has been trying to coin "the Faithful" as a way to refer to posters who prefer to use AMD products

 

[singe_101]

Do these high-end CPUs stay cool if they just have to maintain 70 FPS? Without weighing price and performance/$.

 

[TurboGLH]

They haen't had 3 years to tear into Zen. Zen 1 and Zen 2 are different. Maybe do some research before spreading misinformation next time.

View attachment 237544

So, you're saying that Zen hasn't been out three years? Funny about that, I bought an 1800x on launch day in 2017, pretty sure it was three years ago.

Zen 2 is drastically different than Zen/Zen+, but unless you're saying that once the latest version launches we just ignore bugs in any previous iterations, then researchers have had 3+ years to look at zen/zen+ for bugs, and there are plenty of cpus based on that architecture.

Try harder next time.

 

[Revdarian]

Look even that spin doesn't work because you are now looking up at over 15x more holes than in the competition, which actually has been subjected by lots of poking and proving too so that "it's a fraction of a fraction" doesn't fly all that well either.

Ps: I prefer to lock my home than leave it wide open, tyvm.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

This coming from the guy who has been trying to coin "the Faithful" as a way to refer to posters who prefer to use AMD products

If you actually prefer to use AMD products as opposed to the best product for the job regardless of brand, you should wear that one with pride.

I'll stick to the best product for the job.

 

[Red Falcon]

If you actually prefer to use AMD products as opposed to the best product for the job regardless of brand, you should wear that one with pride.

I'll stick to the best product for the job.

Fully agree with this.
When one can only see the bad in the opposition, and nothing but the good in their own camp, they go from being supporters of proven technology, to cultists of a brand.

 

[tangoseal]

It's absolutely a spin, but understand that these newer iterations of Skylake also include hardware mitigations.


Sure, but Zen represents some fraction of a fraction of the total installed base. Skylake is literally everywhere.

There's still significantly more value in targeting and protecting Skylake versus Zen, but that trend reverses if / when the Zen install base grows to something more significant.

That is not true. Zen holds 1/5th of the total desktop market

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Do these high-end CPUs stay cool if they just have to maintain 70 FPS? Without weighing price and performance/$.

This is going to be application dependent. In some cases, yes, the load will be low and thus the CPU simply won't draw the power; in others, you may need to limit application demands on the processor by setting an FPS limit or similar.

Zen 2 is drastically different than Zen/Zen+, but unless you're saying that once the latest version launches we just ignore bugs in any previous iterations, then researchers have had 3+ years to look at zen/zen+ for bugs, and there are plenty of cpus based on that architecture.

Zen 2 isn't drastically different, but in this case, AMDs size has allowed them to be more responsive in addressing hardware issues.

A big part of that is that Intel has had many processors in the pipe that they simply haven't been able to produce. Skylake is old; it's a credit to Intel that it's still competitive at all, but it's also put the indiscretions made in Skylake's design in the limelight, because so very many machines currently in use are using Skylake cores.

Look even that spin doesn't work because you are now looking up at over 15x more holes than in the competition, which actually has been subjected by lots of poking and proving too so that "it's a fraction of a fraction" doesn't fly all that well either.

It's pretty fallacious to compare the amount of poking and prodding between the two. This isn't just from an academic sense, but from malicious actors ranging up to the level of nation states.

AMD may have a better product for many use cases today, but they were out of the CPU game for a decade.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

That is not true. Zen holds 1/5th of the total desktop market

While that may be true, and I'm not contesting the data presented, I'm speaking in terms of install base. Put another way, Zen holds 1/5th of the desktop market now. They'd need to hold more than 4/5ths of it for the next five or six years to be in the position that Intel is in today.

 

[tangoseal]

While that may be true, and I'm not contesting the data presented, I'm speaking in terms of install base. Put another way, Zen holds 1/5th of the desktop market now. They'd need to hold more than 4/5ths of it for the next five or six years to be in the position that Intel is in today.

Oh no one is arguing that with you! I agree completely. I was just really trying to convince you that its not fraction of a fraction anymore. Not trying to be mean or anything. Only sharing what information I understand in order to help another [H] member that may not notice that the share has in fact increased quite a bit. with that being said I feel like an absolute fool for not buying AMD stock about 7 years ago when I should have.

But to be honest I am not sure I would want them to be in the position Intel is in. Then they will just turn into another over priced under-delivering juggernaut like Intel has been for a long time. Its nice having an underdog that works very hard at being best and has to constantly innovate. I guess Intel would then be forced to take that position if the two companies swapped top spots so It works either way.

But until that whopping 4% server market share changes for AMD (LOL) I dont regard desktops as being even a thing to get excited over. Its significantly smaller market than the server realm.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

I was just really trying to convince you that its not fraction of a fraction anymore.

Consider me convinced, thanks for lending some research 😉

 

[ZeroBarrier]

So, you're saying that Zen hasn't been out three years? Funny about that, I bought an 1800x on launch day in 2017, pretty sure it was three years ago.

Zen 2 is drastically different than Zen/Zen+, but unless you're saying that once the latest version launches we just ignore bugs in any previous iterations, then researchers have had 3+ years to look at zen/zen+ for bugs, and there are plenty of cpus based on that architecture.

Try harder next time.

Please, let's not pretend that Zen 1 adopters are all still on Zen 1. AMD was smart in getting their fans to pay for what was essentially a partial side-grade if not an actual downgrade depending on what hardware was being replaced. Just to come out with something that finally traded blows 2 years later.

The likely hood someone is trying to compromise Zen 1 chips anymore is low because there will likely only be a few handful of them left in the wild by the time an exploit can be found.

Coincidentally, Zen 1 - Zen 2 vaguely reminds me of how Apple sold a metric fuck-ton of iPhone 2G phones that were incapable of sending an MMS which even feature phones at the time did and no 3G connectivity when it wasn't even new, just to come out a year later and get those same loyal fans to plop down even more money for something that should have been released first and foremost.

 

[blandead]

You realize any security vulnerabilities found are tested against Intel and AMD chips right? Even ARM chips get tested.

 

[TurboGLH]

Please, let's not pretend that Zen 1 adopters are all still on Zen 1. AMD was smart in getting their fans to pay for what was essentially a partial side-grade if not an actual downgrade depending on what hardware was being replaced. Just to come out with something that finally traded blows 2 years later.

The likely hood someone is trying to compromise Zen 1 chips anymore is low because there will likely only be a few handful of them left in the wild by the time an exploit can be found.

Coincidentally, Zen 1 - Zen 2 vaguely reminds me of how Apple sold a metric fuck-ton of iPhone 2G phones that were incapable of sending an MMS which even feature phones at the time did and no 3G connectivity when it wasn't even new, just to come out a year later and get those same loyal fans to plop down even more money for something that should have been released first and foremost.

Yap Yap Yap. That's an awfully long winded way to say "I'm wrong"

To avoid dragging this any more off track, I was willing to concede that zen 2, with all the io moved to its own chiplet, was distinctly different from zen/zen+, but since you're insist on acting the fool, then let's address it.

Zen2 is related to zen1 in the same way all the latest Lakes are related to the initial 6xxx release, they're improvements on the same base architecture. Improvements to cache to alleviate the affects of all the io needing to go through, improved memory controller, but each core chiplet is still two 4 core ccx talking across IF.

Zen 2 isn't drastically different, but in this case, AMDs size has allowed them to be more responsive in addressing hardware issues.

No disagreement there, I was trying to avoid dragging this so far off topic that it ended up locked. Think that outcome is a given at this point.

 

[Ready4Dis]

Just to put this into more perspective:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/10-co...e-AMD-Ryzen-9-4900HS-mobile-APU.461162.0.html

The 4900HS with a 35w TDP out runs the 10900F in geekbench. That's an 8/16 laptop Apu beating on a 10/20 desktop part that is easily 3x the power consumption on full load. Even the single core scores are pretty close... This makes me hopeful that when AMD releases their next gen they will finally close the only small gap Intel still maintains until Intel can pull their collective heads out of their a**. I think we are seeing a big problem where Intel just can't get clock speeds higher with 10nm, and nobody wants to buy a slower part than previous generation fo more money.

Of course these aren still engineering samples, but even with a 10% bump in performance, this is still a great showing for AMDs laptop CPU and/or sad showing for Intel's next desktop part.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

Just to put this into more perspective:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/10-co...e-AMD-Ryzen-9-4900HS-mobile-APU.461162.0.html

The 4900HS with a 35w TDP out runs the 10900F in geekbench. That's an 8/16 laptop Apu beating on a 10/20 desktop part that is easily 3x the power consumption on full load. Even the single core scores are pretty close... This makes me hopeful that when AMD releases their next gen they will finally close the only small gap Intel still maintains until Intel can pull their collective heads out of their a**. I think we are seeing a big problem where Intel just can't get clock speeds higher with 10nm, and nobody wants to buy a slower part than previous generation fo more money.

Of course these aren still engineering samples, but even with a 10% bump in performance, this is still a great showing for AMDs laptop CPU and/or sad showing for Intel's next desktop part.

i mean intel did it to themselves by pushing the whole "5Ghz+" bullshit when the reality is clock speed only plays a tiny part in actual performance but never bothered to mention that in anyway for the average consumers to understand. so when the reality sets in that 5Ghz likely won't be an option with the die shrinks it'll take twice as much work to get people to understand that 5Ghz was never some magical clock speed that just made things faster.

 

[Revdarian]

It's even more fallacious to grab a gruyere cheese with around 300 known holes and growing and calling it a safety bunker.

The spin was crap. Just let it go.

 

[exlink]

Man, and here I thought the Xbox vs Playstation arguments were petty.

My 3700X is my first AMD CPU in over 10 years. Works fantastic and is remarkable for a CPU with only a 65w TDP and a sub $300 price tag. People should be happy that AMD is going toe to toe with Intel again as that finally has Intel doing something more than just releasing new CPUs with the same core counts and minimal IPC gains like they did for years prior.

I'm guessing that the 10900K and 3900X will be in the same price range so that should be the reason for comparing the two CPUs - not based on their tech specs. AMD offers higher core counts and better multi-core performance while Intel offers higher clock speeds and better single-threaded performance at the same price.

Zen 3 is going to be an interesting release as it appears that at the moment AMD is making much larger performance leaps with every generation compared to Intel. But that doesn't mean that Intel can't respond with something massive now that they being pressured to do better.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

But that doesn't mean that Intel can't respond with something massive now that they being pressured to do better.

Intel just needs to get out of their own way, really. This 14nm mess has been expensive.

 

[sabrewolf732]

Intel just needs to get out of their own way, really. This 14nm mess has been expensive.

yeah, for sure. Intel is most definitely capable, core 2 shit on AMD phenom rather well, though it wasn't a complete blow out. Nehalem absolutely crushed AMD, I am sure Intel's next "nehalem" is coming.

Fortunately, AMD is not led by Hector Ruiz anymore.

 

[Operations]

blackmomba

"if you have been doing this long enough", you have to have noticed that there are groups of people who will almost rather die than buy an AMD cpu (or Intel)

If you don't believe me just look at several forums where people talk about AMD vs Intel. It is often not based on facts but more based on emotions, they sort of feel the need to defend the brand of their choice.

So yes there are people who just look at the product performance/facts and not the brand like you and me. But there are certainly "two groups" in this discussion. Three groups if you count the people like you and me.

I am not labeling at all, this has been done a long long time ago. And often by themselves and so by choice.

Again if you have really been doing this a long time, i really cannot imagine you not knowing what i mean. You almost certain have to have encountered this in the past or present

 

[OrangeKhrush]

yeah, for sure. Intel is most definitely capable, core 2 shit on AMD phenom rather well, though it wasn't a complete blow out. Nehalem absolutely crushed AMD, I am sure Intel's next "nehalem" is coming.

Fortunately, AMD is not led by Hector Ruiz anymore.

It would appear that Intel are run by a Hector Ruiz like person. At this point Nehalem will be getting off 14nm, small steps I guess.

 

[OrangeKhrush]

https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-10700k-8-core-core-i5-10600k-6-core-cpu-benchmarks-leak/

So a i9 10900KF 10/20 running a 4.6ghz All Core out the box gets beaten by a Ryzen 7 3800X 8/16 running a 4.4ghz all core, even the single thread is barely a reason 6287 plays 6135 for the 3800X, seems rather sad.