Intel Comet Lake build lol (planning ahead)

Astrowind

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Comet Lake build
OK, I understand Comet Lake comes out in several months. But I was thinking it might be an idea to plan ahead. I know people could debate about AMD vs Intel but I read that the new LGA 1200 socket would be compatible with the Ice Lake 10nm.

Case
Actually, I already bought the case. It's an Antec GX 202 and it meets all my specs. There's already a thread on this. Just a warning, the one I got had a dark tinted window. I would have wished for a clear one.

SSD
I read Samsung, Crucial and WD have good ones. Since I've had a good experience with WD hard drives in the past, I'm betting WD SSDs are good enough. Besides, I like their prices.
Western Digital Blue 500GB WDS500G1B0C

RAM
I have bought Kingston Fury X in the past even though I don't overclock (just like the heatspreaders to prolong lifetime). They're out of stock on some sites so I'll choose this one as my example.
Ballistix Sport LT 16GB (2x8 dual-channel) 2666MHz BLS2K8G4D26BFSBK

PSU
I'm having more of a challenge with this choice. I really like Seasonic PSUs but the cheapest one recommended for new Intel CPUs is the G Series 500w. The two other ones I'm considering are the Thermaltake Smart 500w PS-SPD-0500NPCWUS-W (cheapest) and the FSP 450w FSP450-60GHS(85)-R1 which has a price between the two. EDIT: After doing more research, first pick would be Seasonic Focus 450w, 2nd choice Corsair CX450 and 3rd Coolermaster Masterwatt 450.

CPU heatsink
I've used Coolermaster Gemini M4 in the past but the new M5 has a red LED which I'm hesitant to get (would prefer blue). So, this time I'm tempted to go with the Silverstone Argon Series AR06 even though it has a 92mm fan instead of 120mm (although I'd have to confirm it's compatible with the new LGA 1200 socket). Even if I run the CPU at stock speeds, I prefer heatpipes in case of fan failure. EDIT: After more research, I decided if I go with an AMD, I might use the Noctua NH-L9a heatsink.

motherboard
I'm thinking I may choose an AsRock motherboard partly because I've had one that's been running well for years, likely either H410 or H470 chipset. (It might be H470 if it's paired with higher-quality audio.)

CPU
My thinking is I'm leaning on the i3 because I read it will have 8 threads and will use multithreading. Plus, I mainly play Unreal Tournament which is likely to play on the onboard GPU. Then I can replace it later with an i5 Ice Lake 10nm CPU and even much later add a vid card when I find I need it.

OS
I'm hoping Win12 will come out when Win7 stops receiving updates in Jan, 2020. That's likely when I'd build this machine. (I'm hoping for a Win7 desktop and menu or the option to choose one.)

So, do you think it would be worth it to buy things before xmas season starts or wait until later?
 
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janas19

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Do yourself a favor and pre-purchase a 500W minimum PSU with 3-5 year warranty. You can pick them up on sale while you're waiting and get the rebate forms turned in now.

Like I always say, if you're building a brand new $600-800 system, there's no reason to skimp on a quality PSU just to save $20. You don't have to spend $100 on a PSU, just get one that has a warranty and rebate.
 

SvenBent

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CPU's don have threades. they hav logical cores that executes threads

its like saying you are buying a hdd/sdd with 1TB data.
you are getting aunites with 1TB og space for data. how much data is on it depends on your. same with threads on a cpu
 

Astrowind

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I'd like to say I found some more interesting designs in the top down category of heatsinks. I find these interesting because they may cool the motherboard at the same time as the CPU. Anyway, I found also the Noctua NH-L12S, Scythe Big Shuriken 3 and SilverStone SST-NT06-PRO-V2
 

Ready4Dis

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CPU's don have threades. they hav logical cores that executes threads

its like saying you are buying a hdd/sdd with 1TB data.
you are getting aunites with 1TB og space for data. how much data is on it depends on your. same with threads on a cpu
What are you talking about? That's the terminology they use... Cores/Threads. Aka, Intel hyperTHREADing. It means two different processes can use the same logical core at the same time as long as they aren't performing the same operation, otherwise it must wait. Each thread has its own set of registers but shares the ALU. It gives a small bump in performance depending on the work loads. This is why you see the numbers for CPUs like 4/8, 4/4, 16/32, etc.
 

Ready4Dis

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Comet Lake build
OK, I understand Comet Lake comes out in several months. But I was thinking it might be an idea to plan ahead. I know people could debate about AMD vs Intel but I read that the new LGA 1200 socket would be compatible with the Ice Lake 10nm.

Case
Actually, I already bought the case. It's an Antec GX 202 and it meets all my specs. There's already a thread on this. Just a warning, the one I got had a dark tinted window. I would have wished for a clear one.

SSD
I read Samsung, Crucial and WD have good ones. Since I've had a good experience with WD hard drives in the past, I'm betting WD SSDs are good enough. Besides, I like their prices.
Western Digital Blue 500GB WDS500G1B0C

RAM
I have bought Kingston Fury X in the past even though I don't overclock (just like the heatspreaders to prolong lifetime). They're out of stock on some sites so I'll choose this one as my example.
Ballistix Sport LT 16GB (2x8 dual-channel) 2666MHz BLS2K8G4D26BFSBK

PSU
I'm having more of a challenge with this choice. I really like Seasonic PSUs but the cheapest one recommended for new Intel CPUs is the G Series 500w. The two other ones I'm considering are the Thermaltake Smart 500w PS-SPD-0500NPCWUS-W (cheapest) and the FSP 450w FSP450-60GHS(85)-R1 which has a price between the two.

CPU heatsink
I've used Coolermaster Gemini M4 in the past but the new M5 has a red LED which I'm hesitant to get (would prefer blue). So, this time I'm tempted to go with the Silverstone Argon Series AR06 even though it has a 92mm fan instead of 120mm (although I'd have to confirm it's compatible with the new LGA 1200 socket). Even if I run the CPU at stock speeds, I prefer heatpipes in case of fan failure.

motherboard
I'm thinking I may choose an AsRock motherboard partly because I've had one that's been running well for years, likely either H410 or H470 chipset. (It might be H470 if it's paired with higher-quality audio.)

CPU
My thinking is I'm leaning on the i3 because I read it will have 8 threads and will use multithreading. Plus, I mainly play Unreal Tournament which is likely to play on the onboard GPU. Then I can replace it later with an i5 Ice Lake 10nm CPU and even much later add a vid card when I find I need it.

OS
I'm hoping Win12 will come out when Win7 stops receiving updates in Jan, 2020. That's likely when I'd build this machine. (I'm hoping for a Win7 desktop and menu or the option to choose one.)

So, do you think it would be worth it to buy things before xmas season starts or wait until later?
Seems a little early to be planning, but it sounds pretty logical for the build. I would really wait on pricing and performance #'s personally, especially for an i3 series, make sure it's not a waste of money. But you sound like you're hoping for forward compatibility with 10nm, hopefully we get some confirmation beforehand. In that case, I'm guessing the i3 would be a stop gap CPU till then?

Edit:. I thought m$ said win10 was just going to be continually updated, so probably no win12. Also, I would hold off on buying some of it (just incase you get news like it won't support 10nm, or i3's won't be released until a later date, etc). Some things, like a good power supply and case can be used for anything, so probably a safe purchase any time. Same can mostly be said for a quality SSD, but possibility of new things coming out and being better perf/$.
 

Astrowind

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They say you need a Haswell ready PSU for the latest Intel CPUs. Does anyone here know if you need a newer design PSU as well for the Ryzen 3 3200G? I mean, it looks like the Ryzen 3 3200G might be close to the equivalent of my i5-4570 + GTX 1050Ti (for less money, and yeah, I want to keep my i5-4570 + 1050Ti for Win7).

On second thought, it's true if I went with an i3 Comet Lake, by the time they come out with Ice Lake, they might use faster RAM (than the 2666MHz). This might be odd but I also thought about using 2666MHz RAM with a Ryzen instead of the 2933MHz recommended so I could use it later in a future platform but then again, I was thinking about using the ASRock recommended RAM list so... ah too many thoughts lol
 

Kaos_Drem

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They say you need a Haswell ready PSU for the latest Intel CPUs. Does anyone here know if you need a newer design PSU as well for the Ryzen 3 3200G? I mean, it looks like the Ryzen 3 3200G might be close to the equivalent of my i5-4570 + GTX 1050Ti (for less money, and yeah, I want to keep my i5-4570 + 1050Ti for Win7).

On second thought, it's true if I went with an i3 Comet Lake, by the time they come out with Ice Lake, they might use faster RAM (than the 2666MHz). This might be odd but I also thought about using 2666MHz RAM with a Ryzen instead of the 2933MHz recommended so I could use it later in a future platform but then again, I was thinking about using the ASRock recommended RAM list so... ah too many thoughts lol

The "Haswell ready" moniker had to mostly do with C-States which are effectively power levels the cpu can get down to for power saving. C6 C10 etc. If you buy an 80plus silver or better these days you should be covered considering the "haswell ready" psus started hitting the market back in 2013.
 

Astrowind

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I want to make some corrections to this thread. Apparently the Seasonic Focus models are the more recent models. Also, if I wanted to save money, I'd be inclined to buy a Corsair CX450 or Coolermaster Masterwatt 450 (with a slight edge to the Corsair).

And to answer the post above, I built a machine with a Skylake i3-6100 which with an Antec Basiq VP-450 PSU can actually freeze from time to time. I believe there's a BIOS change to make to avoid that but I've been too lazy to look it up. [EDIT: I actually made a BIOS update to my Gigabyte mobo and it stopped freezing. Ah well, usually had more solid builds out-of-the-box with Asus or Asrock.]
 
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SvenBent

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What are you talking about? That's the terminology they use... Cores/Threads. Aka, Intel hyperTHREADing. It means two different processes can use the same logical core at the same time as long as they aren't performing the same operation, otherwise it must wait. Each thread has its own set of registers but shares the ALU. It gives a small bump in performance depending on the work loads. This is why you see the numbers for CPUs like 4/8, 4/4, 16/32, etc.
Referring to Intel ARK it might suit you to read the description for the terminology explenation in ARK

CPU does not HAVE threads it can handle up to X amount of threads. threads are in software.
A cpu in box had no thread in it as there is no software running on it
Just like a hardrive har no data on it until you put it on it

and hyper threading just refer to the abiilityo handle more than 1 thread per core aka the threads in a piece of software.



To quote ARK
# of Threads
A Thread, or thread of execution, is a software term for the basic ordered sequence of instructions that can be passed through or processed by a single CPU core.

Aka we are talking about a capacity of something it can "hold or "contain" not something it has.
 

Ready4Dis

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Referring to Intel ARK it might suit you to read the description for the terminology explenation in ARK

CPU does not HAVE threads it can handle up to X amount of threads. threads are in software.
A cpu in box had no thread in it as there is no software running on it
Just like a hardrive har no data on it until you put it on it

and hyper threading just refer to the abiilityo handle more than 1 thread per core aka the threads in a piece of software.



To quote ARK
# of Threads
A Thread, or thread of execution, is a software term for the basic ordered sequence of instructions that can be passed through or processed by a single CPU core.

Aka we are talking about a capacity of something it can "hold or "contain" not something it has.
As a software developer that has worked on low level operating system code, I understand exactly what a software thread is. That doesn't change the fact that it is common place to refer to the non discrete core (shared resource) as a thread.
https://whatsabyte.com/blog/processor-threads/
It refers to the actual # of software threads that the CPU can work on at the same time and is not always the same # as cores. Please, I hate the fact that they refer to them as threads since my software background always makes me think of a software thread, but that doesn't change the fact that it's used in this capacity.

Just for good measure, direct from AMD.
https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors-desktop
  • From 8 to 32 cores
  • From 16 to 64 Processing Threads
 

SvenBent

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As a software developer that has worked on low level operating system code, I understand exactly what a software thread is. That doesn't change the fact that it is common place to refer to the non discrete core (shared resource) as a thread.
https://whatsabyte.com/blog/processor-threads/
It refers to the actual # of software threads that the CPU can work on at the same time and is not always the same # as cores. Please, I hate the fact that they refer to them as threads since my software background always makes me think of a software thread, but that doesn't change the fact that it's used in this capacity.

Just for good measure, direct from AMD.
https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors-desktop
  • From 8 to 32 cores
  • From 16 to 64 Processing Threads

So you are going to ignore the first "Evidenced" you port forward was saying you where incorrect and now going to AMD
OK let give that a look too

Please show me where the amd says the CPU "HAVE" 16 threads are are not just merely talking about a capacity increase


Common speak or not does not make it technical correct.
lots of people don't know the different between jealous and envious. That does not make it less wrong to use the words incorrectly.
But at least you can admit that technically im right. which by all means its the only thing I wanted to mention.

Referring to logical cores as threads makes a huge mess of confusion when you are working with thread/CPU resources scheduling
Which you would now if you are working with thread distribution optimization
 

Ready4Dis

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Your still going on? I didn't ignore your link, I said I agree that is a meaning. That doesn't change the fact that it's how it's refered to. Ever read a dictionary? A single word can be used to mean more than one thing. And if it's in common use it DOES matter. Whether you like the term or not is irelivent, I was simply pointing out it's an accepted term to say how many concurrent threads in hardware a CPU can support. You do understand a software thread does nothing if a cpu doesnt task switch to it and start executing right?

And this is a post from an Intel employee.
"Regardless of what Intel device we talk about, a processing core will have one or more "hardware threads" per core. We use "hardware threads" as a very generic term that refers to multithreading achieved mostly by duplicating thread state and sharing most everything else in a processing core. Multithreading achieved by duplicating most everything, the whole "core," is what multicore and many-core designs are all about. Processors and coprocessor can have both "hardware threads" and lots of cores. "Hyperthreading" is a very specific form of implementing a "hardware thread" that is only found on dynamic (a.k.a. out-of-order) execution engines."
https://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/intel-many-integrated-core/topic/515522

And a definition from Intel's developer pages...
"A hardware thread is a logical processor on multicore or Intel® Hyper-Threading Technology enabled CPUs. The Hardware Threads window lists all hardware threads on the active target system."

https://software.intel.com/en-us/in...stem-debug-user-guide-hardware-threads-window


I didn't just point to an AMD page to change the facts or twist anything, I figured a reference from a CPU company would help you understand, so I included 2 references from Intel for you. I'm not saying your incorrect about a software thread, I'm saying people and companies use that term for hardware as well.
 

Ready4Dis

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So you are going to ignore the first "Evidenced" you port forward was saying you where incorrect and now going to AMD
OK let give that a look too

Please show me where the amd says the CPU "HAVE" 16 threads are are not just merely talking about a capacity increase


Common speak or not does not make it technical correct.
lots of people don't know the different between jealous and envious. That does not make it less wrong to use the words incorrectly.
But at least you can admit that technically im right. which by all means its the only thing I wanted to mention.

Referring to logical cores as threads makes a huge mess of confusion when you are working with thread/CPU resources scheduling
Which you would now if you are working with thread distribution optimization
Btw, you were only technically half correct, as some words and terms can have more than one definition ;). Just because I'm technically correct when I say a crane is a piece of powered equipment to lift heavy objects doesn't make someone looking at a crane through his binoculars telling me it's a bird wrong. Both are correct and I wouldn't argue that it can have a different meaning to others.
If you notice they typically separate it by calling it a hardware thread vs software thread to avoid confusion (I still wish they used a different term, but they didn't). If someone says CPU cores/threads, it's implied they are speaking of hardware thread.
 

spine

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Thread != logical core.

You can run a thread on a logical core, but you can't run a logical core on a thread! :confused::wacky:
 

Ready4Dis

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Thread != logical core.

You can run a thread on a logical core, but you can't run a logical core on a thread! :confused::wacky:

The registers for a specific thread are tied to the "core"... the core can run one or more threads at the same time sharing resources (aka, sharing an ALU, FPU, etc). Typically you see one or two 'threads' per core, but for some, eg. Intel phi you can see 4 (nothing besides deminishing returns limits this amount). The point was, in the tech industry the term is still 'thread', even if you and I don't like it. And these aren't even hard divisions and a generalized term. They can have their own ALU but share fpu, they could share ALU and FPU but share the mmx/sse/etc with multiple 'cores'.
 

spine

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The registers for a specific thread are tied to the "core"... the core can run one or more threads at the same time sharing resources (aka, sharing an ALU, FPU, etc). Typically you see one or two 'threads' per core, but for some, eg. Intel phi you can see 4 (nothing besides deminishing returns limits this amount). The point was, in the tech industry the term is still 'thread', even if you and I don't like it. And these aren't even hard divisions and a generalized term. They can have their own ALU but share fpu, they could share ALU and FPU but share the mmx/sse/etc with multiple 'cores'.

Only you don't like it.

My OS runs hundreds of threads, but only on 8 logical cores, on 4 physical cores.

Admit it, you've been using the wrong wording for years, and it hurts to change. But for the rest of us... :rolleyes:
 

Ready4Dis

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I've been using the wrong wording? Quick go tell AMD and Intel they have it wrong! Hurts to change? What are you even talking about? I prefer to use threads to mean a software entity that is run on a CPU... That doesn't mean people/companies (betting u have one of their CPUs) nor can I affect it. I was just pointing out that it is a used term, which I figured my links to both AMD and Intel proved pretty reasonably. I don't care if you don't like or use it, I don't like to use it either, but as I mentioned, just because you or I don't like/agree with a term doesn't magically mean it doesn't exist or isn't used.

So, for the rest of you... Keep on keeping on, I really don't care if you use the term in this fashion or not. ;). I'm not sure it was me using the wrong term for years, just that I actually read up on hardware and CPUs, so I see terms used (right or wrong) and realize their meaning without having to demean people to feel big on the interwebs.
 

Ready4Dis

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Only you don't like it.

My OS runs hundreds of threads, but only on 8 logical cores, on 4 physical cores.

Admit it, you've been using the wrong wording for years, and it hurts to change. But for the rest of us... :rolleyes:
No, your CPU switches between hundreds of threads... At least if you want to try to talk down on others get your crap straight first :).
Incase the smiley wasn't obvious, this was in jest on how easy it is to twist a term or statement. And congrats for using a different term, I still understand the meaning, just like I did when someone else called it a core/thread you call it a core and logical core.... What makes it logical? It shares logic units with another logical core, so by itself, it's not logical at all, just a bunch of transistors to patch registers through the real logic unit. Sorry, just having fun, hopefully nobody is getting to butt hurt over any of this.

Edit:
Just wanted to throw one more link in..
"The i9-9900K is an 8 core / 16 thread part while the i7-9700K is an 8 core / 8 thread CPU."

https://m.hardocp.com/article/2018/10/19/intel_core_i99900k_9th_generation_cpu_review/

Oh no, hardocp uses this term too.... We know they can't be trusted, lol.
 

spine

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https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/591933-guide-hyper-threading-and-windows-explained-for-real/

linustechtips.com said:
Thread: This is perhaps the most commonly misunderstood, or at least misused term with regard to this subject. A thread is not a physical thing, it is not part of hardware, and it does not arise from hardware in any way. A thread is a software concept, and is a single consecutive series of tasks. Every running program on your computer consists of one or more threads. Software can launch or terminate threads as needed, no differently than you open and close applications....It would be incorrect to say a CPU has a certain number of threads. What you really mean is it has that many logical cores, each one of which can be entirely occupied by one sufficiently demanding thread.

If Logical core == Thread, then that would imply hyper-threading could easily be done in software. Obviously, this isn't the case.
 

Ready4Dis

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https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/591933-guide-hyper-threading-and-windows-explained-for-real/



If Logical core == Thread, then that would imply hyper-threading could easily be done in software. Obviously, this isn't the case.
Again, just because they say that, doesn't mean it's not in common use... And the links I provided to both Intel and AMD, as well as hardocp, agrees. Software threads are simply pieces of data in memory that can run. Threads in generally store information about the running process (registers, stack, GDT and LDT, etc). The way hyperthreading works is it shares things like the ALU between two threads, but maintains a separate copy of registers. This allows both 'logical cores' to run both threads at the same time, as last my as they aren't using the same resource. The trend has been to call this hardware threads (not my term, and I absolutely hate it) because it's the # of threads the hardware can perform work on, while not being a full core. Against, right or wrong, it's common use and people understand the meaning if they follow computers. Feel free to use logical core, the OP can use core/thread and I'll still know that your both talking about the same thing.
 

spine

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Again, just because they say that, doesn't mean it's not in common use... And the links I provided to both Intel and AMD, as well as hardocp, agrees. Software threads are simply pieces of data in memory that can run. Threads in generally store information about the running process (registers, stack, GDT and LDT, etc). The way hyperthreading works is it shares things like the ALU between two threads, but maintains a separate copy of registers. This allows both 'logical cores' to run both threads at the same time, as last my as they aren't using the same resource. The trend has been to call this hardware threads (not my term, and I absolutely hate it) because it's the # of threads the hardware can perform work on, while not being a full core. Against, right or wrong, it's common use and people understand the meaning if they follow computers. Feel free to use logical core, the OP can use core/thread and I'll still know that your both talking about the same thing.

You know, I'd written a response, but, shit, I actually agree with everything you just said! (y) I think I'll just leave it at that...

honestly
 

Astrowind

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I might wait for Rocket Lake to come out to get the next generation 12 iGPU. Looking at the Comet Lake i3-10300, I find it pretty interesting: 3.7GHz instead of 3.2GHz for my i5-4570, 2667MHz RAM instead of 1600MHz, 8MB L3 cache instead of 6MB. But it still has UHD 630 compared to HD4600 integrated graphics.
 
D

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Get yourself an AMD Ryzen setup and you can thank me later. Intel is not in the position to be picked right now, especially not a lower tier CPU from them.

Also, what gametype do you play on UT?
 

Astrowind

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Get yourself an AMD Ryzen setup and you can thank me later. Intel is not in the position to be picked right now, especially not a lower tier CPU from them.

Also, what gametype do you play on UT?

I play the regular deathmatch, my favorite maps are Outpost23 and Decktest.
 

Astrowind

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Get yourself an AMD Ryzen setup and you can thank me later. Intel is not in the position to be picked right now, especially not a lower tier CPU from them.
Even though the Comet Lake CPUs have not come out yet (nor the Ryzen 4000), I'd like to add this. There's a post here about interpreting benchmarks: https://hardforum.com/threads/am-i-looking-at-benchmarks-the-wrong-way.1991294/#post-1044449841
and one about desktop snappiness (even though it's a minimal difference) https://hardforum.com/threads/can-you-benchmark-desktop-snappyness.1991196/#post-1044451311

So, for now, with some Intel CPUs being superior in games and being somewhat snappier on the desktop, I'm still somewhat inclined to go with Intel.
 
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