Intel challenges AMD: “Come beat us in Real World gaming”

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by odditory, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Being coy about what? I didn't state it because I didn't intend to state it. Also, please take your personal issues elsewhere. That is trolling.
     
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  2. TordanGow

    TordanGow [H]ard|Gawd

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    Given Intel and AMD's recent product results, Intel should be careful what they wish for. Meh, they'd probably just move the goalposts anyways.
     
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  3. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    I'd love to see AMD say. "Alright we've agreed to go with Intel to select a third party to conduct real world gaming performance with each of our flagship CPU's with the SAME video cards operating at the same settings for everything outside of the CPU. So Intel we are calling you on your statement. Lets find an independent third party to do this gaming comparison."

    Because I think Intel would crap themselves. both sides are so damn close today for real world performance that I don't see them really ironing out how to do this.
     
  4. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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    You might want to work on your wording if you don't want people to take your comments to imply something you did not intend on saying. It's all in the interpretation. I took your comment as snarky, negative, and as if you are saying AMD was the loser here. But the way you are all butt hurt about it, and immediately called me as a troll, which I am not, and some how believe it's some personal issues (not sure where you pulled that thought out of) raises questions about your motives. If that is not what you meant, then why the personal attacks on me? All you needed to do, is simply state you did not mean it that way..
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  5. hlfbkd420

    hlfbkd420 Limp Gawd

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    Yeah.... Sorry I only posted one place that day... Obviously there are other retailers but hey... We all skew the results how we want to.

    But keep your head buried in the sand.. THERE IS NO INTEL CHIP SHORTAGE.. /s
     
  6. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I have to agree with Armenius... 9xxx series is almost all green on now in stock.

    7E71278B-D416-4C57-A6CF-06A7F4186A79.png
     
  7. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'd give it to more than one house- maybe Gamer's Nexus for the Youtube crowd and Tom's Hardware, to balance it out?

    Let them run their tests independently, then collaborate on their results?
     
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  8. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    They need to establish and publish the testing methodology, agreed security patching and such.

    Today unless I upgrade to 6.7 u2 of esxi I loose all of my hyperthreaded Intel logical cores. That can be a massive impact. Amd owns that market in my mind.
     
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  9. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    No question.

    They've owned it for a while, in my mind too- if you have the purchasing flexibility in the enterprise at least. It's frustrating being an enthusiast in IT and seeing the myriad of performance considerations that get dropped below platform, supply, and support considerations in the enterprise.

    Also, this thread is about gaming ;).
     
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  10. Randall Stephens

    Randall Stephens Limp Gawd

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  11. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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  12. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    There's... a lot of questions there. The only real answer I can see is that 'popular processors are popular'. I definitely didn't expect to see the 9900K that high given its price.
     
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  13. Randall Stephens

    Randall Stephens Limp Gawd

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    Tons of people out there on AM3 and AM3+ boards still. Check fleabay, you can get new B350 and B450 boards for the price of a used AM3 board. The 8350 gets you two more cores and a lot more space heating for not a lot of coin as a drop in replacement to an old Athlon Xwhatever
     
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  14. MMitch

    MMitch Gawd

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    I doubt the popularity index only take number of sales in consideration. They probably throw in some weird metric to skew that up a little like customer account value, number of times page checked, number of times compared to other products... etc.
    They have to somehow market the high profit margin ;)
     
  15. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Exactly, why would Intel want their competitor beating them with their own compiler, can't enable certain instructions for them ;P
     
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  16. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Intel's been the 'edge' for the longest time, it does make sense for them to have been putting out a compiler. At the same time, it would make sense for AMD to target code released for the Intel compiler, because that's what's out there. Intel's compiler has become the reference. It helps that Intel contributes massively to Linux, to the point of having their own bleeding-edge Linux distro (Clear Linux), which is pretty cool in and of itself.

    I do expect AMD to start doing something similar. They're contributing on the graphics side and making inroads into the community that Nvidia seems uninterested in pursuing, so perhaps we'll see more commits to balance open-source compilers and perhaps a distro optimized for the quirks in their architecture.


    As for not enabling instructions on non-Intel architectures, that needs to be called out with proof.
     
  17. PhaseNoise

    PhaseNoise [H]ard|Gawd

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    The actual instruction differences in my experience are not a huge deal, as those are mostly the SIMD instructions. Strictly left to the compiler - no compiler does a good job of handling auto-vectorization, even intel's. You must explicitly handle it, and then you're just targeting instructions, not companies.

    Intel had a world-beating last-mile optimizer for a while, but that lead has diminished dramatically over the years. It is to the point where I don't bother using it, and casual inspection indicates very few other dev houses do either. This is doubly diminished by the fact that Zen is really quite good at handling "intel optimized" binaries. I expect developers will not bother to target processors over time, just instruction sets.
     
  18. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That's basically where we need to get, and I do understand addressing vectors directly.

    I'll also add (without intending to correct) that those SIMD instructions do tend to make up a pretty large part of CPU 'grunt' these days, at least for work that cannot reasonably done on GPUs instead.
     
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  19. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune 2[H]4U

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    Competition is good.
     
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  20. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    I think "real world gaming" for Intel is playing at 1080p with a GeForce RTX 2080 Ti
     
  21. Keljian

    Keljian Gawd

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    It has, and has been subject to substantial legal battles
     
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  22. SmokeRngs

    SmokeRngs [H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2008

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    I have a question for you. When is Intel going to catch up to Intel's own six year old architecture?
     
  23. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    See also the articles/legal battles referenced in the "Reception" section of the ICC Wikipedia page.
     
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  24. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    IdiotInCharge as your attorney I advise you not to reply to this guy - he's got you in a box.

    Screenshot_2019-06-13-22-18-06~2.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  25. SvenBent

    SvenBent 2[H]4U

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    I actually tried to look for some compiler benchmarks but couldn't find anything new (I only searched shortly)
    As always im always curios when ppl bring up new information. but i also very skeptical ( to many ppl throewing BS all around) so i likes reading it confirmed form multiple sources.
    So i didnt respond to that aspect of the the post yet.
     
  26. Keljian

    Keljian Gawd

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    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-aocc-13&num=1

    https://colfaxresearch.com/compiler-comparison/ (note this is on intel)
     
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  27. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Not really- it's an entirely different question about future products vs. the thread topic about current products. Well, as 'current' as Ryzen 3000 is, since we don't have comprehensive independent reviews.

    But to answer the question, Intel has stated that they'll be using 14nm for their next round of desktop parts late 2019 and / or 2020, which presumably means Skylake, and then in the 2020 to 2021 timeframe move the desktop parts to Ice Lake at 10nm or its 7nm successor (which may just be shrunk Ice Lake).

    At this point we're fairly certain that they have a solid IPC gain with Ice Lake over Skylake, mitigations included, but again we do need comprehensive independent reviews, and that's going to be difficult as the first Ice Lake cores are coming in Sunny Cove in laptops. We should at least get an idea.
     
  28. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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    I suspect it is because the calculations are based on 30 to 90 days of sales (it might be as little as 7 days or less for all we know), and since the 9900k is the newest processor released from intel, or from any manufacturer, the sales appear to be high in that small window of 30 to 90 days vs being calculated over a year or more.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  29. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That's as reasonable as anything really.
     
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  30. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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  31. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So it can be gamed- and thus, we'd expect both Intel and AMD to be gaming it, if we assume their marketing departments are at all competent. And given that the top of the list is dominated by AMD, I'd believe that they've improved ;).
     
  32. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Now they are because almost no one is buying them ;)
    Multiple e-tailers are showing zen stuff on top, not just mindfactory now.. seems AMD has won a lot of mindshare recently.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  33. PhaseNoise

    PhaseNoise [H]ard|Gawd

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    Oh absolutely! Zen was a solid return to the big leagues, and by all appearances AMD is committed to aggressively updating it.

    We wanted a fight, we're getting a fight.
     
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  34. Manny Calavera

    Manny Calavera 2[H]4U

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    Amen x10.

    Talk of Cyberpunk maxed out behind closed doors last week on a 8700K + TITAN RTX ,2X16Gb + Samsung 960Pro + Z370,and the framerate dipping a bit with RTX Global Illumination,and other eye candy goodies turned up to 11/10.... Yeah,bring on that 16 core monster and Ampere on 7nm,please and thank you.
     
  35. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    Unoptimized code is still unoptimized.