Inexpensive custom WCing starter equipment list.

lollerskater69

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
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Another popular question I saw that was poping up on the forums is, ''what's a good starter kit?'', ''what else do I need for my loop?'', ''what kind kind of cooling can I get on a budget?''. I put together a high performance loop that can handle most users heatdumps for under $200.

CPU Block: Enzotech Sapphire
Product Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708019
Price: $34.99
Location: Newegg.com

The Enzotech Sapphire is the most underrated waterblock. Not only does it have the best flow of all blocks, it is only bested by the Heatkiller LT/CU and the K350 temperature wise (with enough pumping power). At the price of 34.99 with about 8$ shipping, it is a steal for a block better than than most. If It doesn't get better, the 1366 adapter is free in a combo deal :)

Radiator: HW Labs Black Ice Pro III
Product Link: http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadenblicepr2.html
Price: $41.99
Location: Petra's Tech Shop

This is a very good rad not many people know much about. It is a slim, Swiftech-like rad and performs like one. HW Labs quality build and finish.

Pump: Danger Den CPX Pro
Product Link: http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadencp12vin.html
Price: $56.95
Location: Petra's Tech Shop

This is a great pump as well as a great value. It's performance is between a D5 and stock Laing DDC 3.2. It has enough oomph for multiblock systems without taking a performance hit. It is also VERY quiet compared to other pumps. This pump also allows expandability for future upgrades.

Fans: Yate Loon D12SM-12
Product Link: http://www.petrastechshop.com/12yalod1cafa1.html
Price: $19.96 for four
Location: Petra's Tech Shop

Dirt cheap and effective Yate Loons are. 70CFM @ 33 DB isn't too bad. You will be pushing a lot of air through your rad and it won't be unbearable. We will be using three for the radiator. Just use the other one in your case, stick it on the rad for push>->pull, or use it as a hovercraft. Be creative.

Tubing: MasterKleer 7/16 ID 5/8 OD Tubing
Product Link: http://www.petrastechshop.com/7id5odmagepu.html
Price: $0.59 a foot
Location: Petra's Tech Shop

Best budget tubing available. Fits snug over 1/2 ID barbs and your going to have to cut the tubing to get it off. Make sure to plumb your loop with a little extra tubing so if you want to add on more components later on without having to re-plumb the loop. Not too much though or you can hurt your temps. Buy about 15 feet so you have two or three trys if you mess up.

Accesories (You can find all of this stuff at Petra's):

Swiftech Rad-Box revision 1(Incase space is a dilemma)
T-Line Fitting (So you can fill your loop. We will be using this instead of a reservoir)
Fill Cap (To plug your fillport line coming from the T-Line)
PT Nuke (If you don't have .997 silver, this is your best choice as a biocide)
1/2 ID Fittings are included with these parts.
Teflon Tape (can be bought @ walmart or hardware store)

Adding the price together with shipping to zip of 33543 for Petra's Tech Shop: $155.15
Adding the price together with shipping to zip of 33543 for Newegg.com : $41.97
Everything shipped to you total: $197.12

Sources:
http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4924
http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8335

Make sure to take a look at Realredraider.com if you have some questions about WC also. I linger around there as well.
 
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First off, let me say that this is a useful guide for many people on this forum looking to water cool. A few comments on your list:

1. The Sapphire is a very underrated block, this is a good suggestion for a budget-minded set up.
2. MCR320 is only $8 than that BIP.

Also, most people who post these kind of questions usually want to cool not only their CPU, but also their GPU(s). Therein lies the problem. It isn't too difficult to piece together a loop for under $200 to cool jsut the CPU, but with the ridiculous heat being generated by i7's and various GPUs, the price for a multiblock loop skyrockets.

I believe the answer most people need when they ask "I want to cool my CPU and my GPUs, please recommend a loop under $200 or even $300" is NO, no I cannot because that's just not the way it works. If you want better temps than air, you are going to need two loops, which means two pumps, not to mention GPU blocks (possibly full cover), which furthermore jacks up the cost.

Water cooling can be done on a budget, in fact, I have done this and it is quite fun. The only problem is when people want good performance and low cost, which is very difficult if not impossible. So, moral of the story is, either spend little money and get a decent loop, or spend the big bucks and get a good loop. You get what you pay for.
 
being that i just built my first watercooling setup I would definitey agree with the you get what you pay for. Do not buy plastic compression fitings(i had two break and spill water in my case), buy a GPU waterblock (dropped the idle temps on my 4890 by 17 degrees celcius and does 990/1190 on autotune settings). Its cheaper just to buy exactly what you want in the beginning.
 
You can cool your Gpu as well with this setup. I don't see what the problem would be.

The BIP is a good rad.
 
In bold print right on that link of the HW Labs Black Ice Pro III it says:

"For anyone looking for a triple 120mm radiator, we HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE MCR320-QP over the BIP3 due to its better performance..."

The MCR320-QP is a decent dependable rad, not quite high end like the XSPC RX series or the Thermochill PA series or the TFC, but excellent value for money. But it still gives better performance that the HW Labs Black Ice Pro and even the retailer says so right. Nothing wrong with the Black Ice Pro; it is cheaper and it does the job but it is one of the lower end rads on the market.
 
Because kits like that are total crap. Just because it is called water cooling doesn't necessarily mean it's better than air cooling. Unfortunately, prices like that convince many inexperienced people to use them and achieve poor results or even worse, leaks. For that price, you could get a TRUE and have much better temps.
 
The reason why I'm discouraged about WC because I like to go to the extreme. Which means I will need to buy water blocks for my GPU's. Two GPU blocks can run about $300 alone. I see a lot of people with WC only cooling the CPU! Isn't the purpose is the cool the whole system? Ohhhh more money huh? I did the math, and I would have to pay close to $500 to cool my CPU, NB/SB, SLI cards. Not worth it. I can spend that money to upgrade my system for the following year.

With current CPU's reaching 4GHz+ on air gives more of a reason why I shouldn't invest in it. Now if people were hitting 5GHz consistantly on water now, then I would spend the money.

There's not a big second hand market for WC kits, so trying to gain back some of my investment will add to the reason of me not buying it in the first place. I think of everything as an investment, not just to show my friends and people on YouTube what I got.
 
I see a lot of people with WC only cooling the CPU! Isn't the purpose is the cool the whole system?

I'm interested in just water cooling the CPU. The reason is simple, I leave my video cards at stock but OC my CPU. OCing the video card just didn't deliver enough returns (aka, wasn't really worth the hassle for a measly 1-3 fps gain). CPU overclocking, on the other hand, gives fantastic returns, but I don't particularly care for the noise of high end air cooling. To each his own, right?

@OP: Fantastic guide, much appreciated.
 
Cool list, thanks. I looked at watercooling sometime last year but was put off by a number of reasons. Getting my new i7 box together soon, hadn't though about WCing it but just might for the hell of it...
 
To ALL
Please keep the discussion on topic with the original post. Alternatives to the list or comments directly related to items on the list are what we are looking for here. Make your own thread for general WCing questions, one loop vs two etc. I do not normally edit threads this severely but the OPs list and the on topic comments seem very valuable to the goals of this forum. Do not take personal offense if I deleted your post, just off topic and I want this thread to be fairly clean for the express concern mentioned below. We (OK maybe it is just me - deal with it) want new people to try WCing. Which is why I deemed this thread important to keep tidy. No one was assigned any infractions or notes or anything else. And if you are offended - tough titty. :p

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So let us all not undermine the excellent work of the OP by providing blanket comments that might discourage newcomers. And yes, even just compared to the thread starters "budget" system the Masscool and the Corsair units are crap. But if you are only willing to spend less than $100 and want to try WCing you have to start somewhere, even if it is down in the dirt. And it is certainly possible to spend more on WCing the machine than the machine initially cost.
 
In bold print right on that link of the HW Labs Black Ice Pro III it says:

"For anyone looking for a triple 120mm radiator, we HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE MCR320-QP over the BIP3 due to its better performance..."

The MCR320-QP is a decent dependable rad, not quite high end like the XSPC RX series or the Thermochill PA series or the TFC, but excellent value for money. But it still gives better performance that the HW Labs Black Ice Pro and even the retailer says so right. Nothing wrong with the Black Ice Pro; it is cheaper and it does the job but it is one of the lower end rads on the market.

For all intents and purposes, the BIP and the MCR test within 5% of one another... The slimmer profile of the BIP, and the fact that it's much cheaper than the MCR, is why I still use the old BI radiators.

What was all the deleted content about?

Thanks Arcie.

If you consider the Swiftech and the BIP to be so similar, we can refer to these test results: http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4924

You can see the Swiftech performs ever so close to $100-$120 dollar radiators like the XSPC RX and Thermochill PA line. This basically refutes your and Petra's assumption that the BIP is really an incapable radiator.
 
While it's fine to look at the pros and cons of different rads for people with a general awareness of the different products, this thread is targeted at new people and should make it clear what the limitations of a certain choice are. Some people will try WC to reduce noise levels and different rads cater for different customers.

To be blunt: The BI series is the worst performing rad for quiet computing. If you're going to run fans at less than 1000rpm, seriously consider alternative options. If you are looking at 800rpm or less you will be disappointed with your WC experience if you buy this - avoid!

If that's not you, go ahead and buy it, as it's a fine rad.

yes. Just make sure your case is high enough for that rad if you want to use the radbox on the back of your case.
 
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Thanks Arcie.

If you consider the Swiftech and the BIP to be so similar, we can refer to these test results: http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4924

You can see the Swiftech performs ever so close to $100-$120 dollar radiators like the XSPC RX and Thermochill PA line. This basically refutes your and Petra's assumption that the BIP is really an incapable radiator.

Are we reading the same review? At 800rpm, it's performance is terrible even compared to the Swiftech. Even the reviewer rips apart the HWLabs (i.e. BI) radiators and concludes with:

"I was very disappointed with the HWLabs radiators. I really like the Black Ice style and finish, the radiators are gorgeous and solidly manufactured. So I wanted these rads to do well, but they simply didn't...So, while it's possible that the HWLabs radiators start outperforming the competition at even higher rpms than I tested, I don't see the point in them."
 
yes. Just make sure your case is high enough for that rad if you want to use the radbox on the back of your case.[/QUOTE]

echn111

I also plan on getting this? Swiftech MCRES-MICRO reservoir with that kit also? Thanks for info. Dave.
 
Are we reading the same review? At 800rpm, it's performance is terrible even compared to the Swiftech. Even the reviewer rips apart the HWLabs (i.e. BI) radiators and concludes with:

"I was very disappointed with the HWLabs radiators. I really like the Black Ice style and finish, the radiators are gorgeous and solidly manufactured. So I wanted these rads to do well, but they simply didn't...So, while it's possible that the HWLabs radiators start outperforming the competition at even higher rpms than I tested, I don't see the point in them."

The BIP and the new GTS and GTX rads have totally different fin density. The older BIP has a lower fin density compared to the ones tested. The BIP's fin desity is comparable to that of thew MCR series by Swiftech.

yes. Just make sure your case is high enough for that rad if you want to use the radbox on the back of your case.

echn111

I also plan on getting this? Swiftech MCRES-MICRO reservoir with that kit also? Thanks for info. Dave.[/QUOTE]

Yes, if you are willing to spend the extra cash a reservoir is much easier to bleed than a t-line setup. The Swiftech Micro-Res is great and bleeds very quickly.
 
Except the BI is a flow killer and falls way behind the chart, i'd go with the swifty for $8 more.
 
lol The BIP doesn't have the same design as the new rads dude. But yes the GTS does have terrible flow compared to most rads.
 
*Obnoxious rant snip*

THE INFO SPEAKS FOR ITSELF: http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4924

True, the MCR doesn't fall that far behind the more expensive alternatives, but you have to understand that it is relative. You may as well say that a Thermalright or Zalman air cooler doesn't fall that far behind watercooling solutions, so why watercool?

For people looking for a low noise watercooling setup using low rpm fans, you should be interested in the low FPI (fins per inch) radiators such as the Thermochill PA series or XSPC RX series. These radiators perform better with low rpm fans, but radiators with a much higher density (such as the Black Ice GTX) perform much better when they're using high rpm fans. You'll have to decide if you're more interested in quiet watercooling or performance watercooling. These radiators also have a higher flow rate and lower pressure drop which is essential if you're using multiple blocks on the same loop. So in the grand scheme of things, paying a little extra for your radiator could go a long way depending on what kind of setup you are going for.

I recommend checking out http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=202394 . There are a ton of reviews and comparisons on watercooling hardware in that sticky. Check out the forum as well as their watercooling subforum is a little more active than the one here as well.
 
True, the MCR doesn't fall that far behind the more expensive alternatives, but you have to understand that it is relative. You may as well say that a Thermalright or Zalman air cooler doesn't fall that far behind watercooling solutions, so why watercool?

That's pretty disingenuous. A hundred dollars for less than one degree in water temperature? Not even CPU temp, water temp. There are people who would pay for that (or are there? you could buy another pump and rad for that money), but look at the title of this thread.
 
lol The BIP doesn't have the same design as the new rads dude. But yes the GTS does have terrible flow compared to most rads.

Unless things have changed i think only the SR series have the new design which are not priced cheap by any means. :rolleyes:
 
That's pretty disingenuous. A hundred dollars for less than one degree in water temperature? Not even CPU temp, water temp. There are people who would pay for that (or are there? you could buy another pump and rad for that money), but look at the title of this thread.

I understand that. I was simply stating other considerations such as fin density and low rpm fans. I know what the title of the thread is. And $100 more? performance-pcs has the RX360 for $95 and the MCR320 (their cheapest swiftech triple) for $68. $95 - $68 = $27 != $100. Your math skills must be pretty ingenious to somehow multiply the difference by four. Though I in no way am trying to dismiss that the RX360 is over double the price of the HW Labs radiator in the OP's excellent post, at an additional $27 over the MCR that is being discussed the RX360 is cost effective, as I had stated, depending on what the user is aiming for.
 
Unless things have changed i think only the SR series have the new design which are not priced cheap by any means. :rolleyes:

Fafeifa is right about the SR series. It's their low fin density series in the same class as the Thermochill PA, XSPC RX, etc. It also has premium pricing and is among the highest priced in the category, but they have the high quality HW Labs finish. Probably not a good fit for a budget WC build.
 
I understand that. I was simply stating other considerations such as fin density and low rpm fans. I know what the title of the thread is. And $100 more? performance-pcs has the RX360 for $95 and the MCR320 (their cheapest swiftech triple) for $68. $95 - $68 = $27 != $100. Your math skills must be pretty ingenious to somehow multiply the difference by four. Though I in no way am trying to dismiss that the RX360 is over double the price of the HW Labs radiator in the OP's excellent post, at an additional $27 over the MCR that is being discussed the RX360 is cost effective, as I had stated, depending on what the user is aiming for.

The MCR320 is about exactly double the price of the RX360. PPCS is just gouging. PPCS has a nice selection but I find Petra's and Sidewinders to hae better pricing.

The Swiftech engineers knew what they were doing when they designed this rad as I pointed out. Although it it only has a fin or two more per inch than the Thermochill PA, that is what allows it to keep up with those thicker rads. It is still a good silent performer as you see in the data. Even Skinnee who frequents XS can even tell you that the MCR series rads deserve more recognition. >1c and slightly better flow is not worth it to me or many other people. These are marginal gains and if you feel you want that extra little performance for twice the money I'm not saying it's wrong and you have lots of people like that think the same way as you.
 
I understand that. I was simply stating other considerations such as fin density and low rpm fans. I know what the title of the thread is. And $100 more? performance-pcs has the RX360 for $95 and the MCR320 (their cheapest swiftech triple) for $68. $95 - $68 = $27 != $100. Your math skills must be pretty ingenious to somehow multiply the difference by four. Though I in no way am trying to dismiss that the RX360 is over double the price of the HW Labs radiator in the OP's excellent post, at an additional $27 over the MCR that is being discussed the RX360 is cost effective, as I had stated, depending on what the user is aiming for.

I was looking at the thermochill at dangerden versus the OP's suggestion, which is over $90 difference. You're right, the other radiators are cheaper elsewhere, but the difference is still $50 from the BIPIII and $40 from the MCR320 at sidewinder.

That's still basically 2 swiftech radiators for the price of one XSPC/Thermochill. If they're ~1° apart in water temp (and less than that in core temp) that's nothing like saying watercooling isn't worth it compared to air cooling. The significant difference between them is the much higher pressure drop of the swiftech, so it's not like the RX360 is never worth it for anyone, but this thread is not for people who shell out hundreds of dollars on GPU blocks and expensive pumps.
 
The MCR320 is about exactly *half* the price of the RX360. PPCS is just gouging. PPCS has a nice selection but I find Petra's and Sidewinders to hae better pricing.

The Swiftech engineers knew what they were doing when they designed this rad as I pointed out. Although it it only has a fin or two more per inch than the Thermochill PA, that is what allows it to keep up with those thicker rads. It is still a good silent performer as you see in the data. Even Skinnee who frequents XS can even tell you that the MCR series rads deserve more recognition. >1c and slightly better flow is not worth it to me or many other people. These are marginal gains and if you feel you want that extra little performance for twice the money I'm not saying it's wrong and you have lots of people like that think the same way as you.

Hmm I guess I'm just terrible at providing my point. I completely agree with Skinnee, Hesmelaugh, etc., as well as with what you are saying. Not trying to fanboy anything as I don't even own any of those rads lols. What I was (poorly) trying to put forth in my first post is three points:
  • That like in air cooling where people pay a premium for a couple degrees with coolers such as the TRUE, people pay a premium for a couple of degrees in watercooling
  • That there are the low fpi rads for low rpm fans and high fpi rads for high rpm fans, both ends of which have a premium
  • Lastly I linked to a sticky on XS which has the very guides that you are referring to
And in my second post I was simply calling out nomu's exaggeration of the price difference.

The MCR is a fine rad ;)
 
[*] That like in air cooling where people pay a premium for a couple degrees with coolers such as the TRUE, people pay a premium for a couple of degrees in watercooling

Thermalright TRUE vs. Intel Stock Cooler

20c difference in temps=$50

Swiftech MCR320 vs. XSPC RX360/TC PA120.3

1c or less difference in temps=$50

?????
 
well that's a bit of an unfair comparison. might have been better to compare

true vs dark knight
1c diff in temps = $30 difference
 
Thermalright TRUE vs. Intel Stock Cooler

20c difference in temps=$50

Swiftech MCR320 vs. XSPC RX360/TC PA120.3

1c or less difference in temps=$50

?????

... ... ... Ummmm... there is no such thing as a "stock" radiator. You have no point here. You are comparing stock to aftermarket regarding heatsinks and aftermarket to aftermarket for radiators.

well that's a bit of an unfair comparison. might have been better to compare

true vs dark knight
1c diff in temps = $30 difference
^this.

Stop posting just to post, You had a great original post. I think that I was on topic discussing price and features of higher priced radiators. There is a reason that your build is "inexpensive." It is inexpensive RELATIVE TO SOMETHING ELSE. I think I made that point clearly and in no way am justifying whatever delta cost for "1c or less" difference (the reviews you keep referring to actually point to almost 2c :D ).
 
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Yes, but you have to buy a couple of fans to throw on it as well, and even then the differences only become "significant" when you overclock. I understand that overclocking is generally the reason people buy aftermarket coolers, but you are still presenting a situational difference. From that same review you can see that the TRUE doesn't scale as well when overclocking as the Thor's Hammer as their within 2 degrees of each other on overclocked load. Does this mean that everyone should completely discount the TRUE since the Thor's Hammer is just as good and within a margin of error? Of course not. I am genuinely trying to suggest that you understand the differences being presented. We can sit here and trade "well, this beats that" reviews all month. When 5 degrees is a "worth it" gain on *air*, maybe 2 degrees is "worth it" on *water.* You are being very stubborn and fail to see the "good enough" idea that you were pressing very hard in this thread. It's unfortunate that you're discouraging discussion on why exactly inexpensive parts are inexpensive and what expectations people are to have from different setups. If you'd like to continue this discussion (which I admit is becoming more and more off-topic), please send me a PM.

On a more constructive note: I suggest that you add teflon tape to the list of accessories. It can be had for a buck or so and is a great bit of added security when sealing threads in your loop in helping prevent leaks by creating a seal between the threads.
 
On a more constructive note: I suggest that you add teflon tape to the list of accessories. It can be had for a buck or so and is a great bit of added security when sealing threads in your loop in helping prevent leaks by creating a seal between the threads.

Agreed
 
While it's fine to look at the pros and cons of different rads for people with a general awareness of the different products, this thread is targeted at new people and should make it clear what the limitations of a certain choice are. Some people will try WC to reduce noise levels and different rads cater for different customers.

To be blunt: The BI series is the worst performing rad for quiet computing. If you're going to run fans at less than 1000rpm, seriously consider alternative options. If you are looking at 800rpm or less you will be disappointed with your WC experience if you buy this - avoid!

echn111, does your comment about fan speeds apply only to the BIP radiators, or to all radiators in general?

Also, from what I can tell (as a watercooling n00b :D ) all the kits come with 25 mm fans. But isn't it true that you can get more CFM and air pressure with a 38 mm fan than with a 25? So why don't these kits like Petra'sTech CoolKit Elite - Rev.3 give you an option for 38 mm fans? :confused:

I've never dealt with Petra, but they seem to have anything I might possilbly need in this area, unlike newegg or Frys ( :mad: :mad: ). Anyone know if they are reputable?
 
Petra's is great.

The BIP doesn't have the same fin density as the new BI rads. So his statement doesn't apply to the older BIP radiators I suggested.

120x38mm fans are better for air and watercooling. If you can get them awesome.
 
Just wanted to drop a post to say thanks for all the discussion ya'll have had in this thread and big props to lollerskater69 for starting the topic. It's actually good that you guys got a little heated in your discussions because the alternate choices brought up have swayed me toward a slightly different build than the OP setup. I'm not buying just yet, probably not till Jan/Feb, but at least now I have a decent parts list to work with so thanks!

Even though I seem to be a new poster, I used to be a regular in the forums almost a decade ago (under the same nick). Every now and then someone would create one of these types of threads and I'd ponder diving in, but instead I always ended up buying a new vid card, or parts for my motorcycle or some such. Closest I ever came was back when that one guy from IIRC MIT or else University of Michigan got everyone into "bong" coolers. Cheap and highly effective, albeit much more of a maintenance hassle vs closed loops. In the end I passed and IIRC bought a new $600 monitor.


It also didn't help that The Woman always thought I was nuts when I'd bring up watercooling. Well now that we've bought her a fake watercooler (read: Corsair h50) she's more open to the idea with the only requirements being a set budget and the whole thing has to fit inside each case to keep things nice and neat. Groovy, now I have an excuse to buy some huge-ass behemoth of a case. Hopefully I can stay near ambient temps while keeping things quiet.
 
I believe the answer most people need when they ask "I want to cool my CPU and my GPUs, please recommend a loop under $200 or even $300" is NO, no I cannot because that's just not the way it works. If you want better temps than air, you are going to need two loops, which means two pumps, not to mention GPU blocks (possibly full cover), which furthermore jacks up the cost.
I disagree.

First the one or two loop issue:
Two loops is exactly what not to use. The main reason for this is that CPU and GPU(s) rarely work at full load at the same time. With separate loops (or regular air cooling, for that matter) you need to dimension it to cool off the maximum power generated by that part of the computer, but with a single full loop you only need to cool off the average power generated over a somewhat longer time span.
The more water you have in the system the more thermal inertia will be present,
and so there's an increase in the averaging time with resulting reduced maximum cooling requirement.

Then the cost issue:
If low cost is more important than low noise there's no need for full cover graphics blocks. Regular heatsinks mounted on the VRMs combined with a fan blowing at them (and the RAM) is sufficient when using cheap GPU only blocks.
_____________________________________________________

I've been considering water cooling for my own computer, to make it more quiet. But to do that is pretty much impossible without spending some $400 or more, since it requires (amongst other things) a quiet pump, a large passively cooled radiator, CPU block and full graphics block.

Cheers
Olle
 
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