Immersion in Bioshock

kelbear

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,579
For some reason, while the Bioshock setting is very well realized in the narrative and atmosphere, but I don’t feel at all immersed in it.

Perhaps modern game budgets have spoiled me, but when the game purports to take place in a populated city I am all too aware of the fact that an entire neighborhood is boiled down to about 12 rooms. The architecture is beautiful, but the layout is nonsensical. After fully exploring those 12 small rooms, you retrace your steps to find 2 more splicers wandering around…but where did they come from? There aren’t any passages they could have come through since I have already explored those passages and killed everything there too. It's not like the splicers just slipped past me in the chaos, because the whole area is already dead and devoid of activity.

The scale of the maps is good in that it provides a very immediate sense of your surroundings. They’re unique and highly detailed because they’re so compact, but it’s also too tight to represent a city. How can residential neighborhoods only have 3 houses in the entire neighborhood? The spaces between buildings are fine for post-disaster traffic, but they’re basically sidewalks on a contemporary scale, no way they’d support the hustle and bustle of Rapture at its peak.

The level to which Rapture’s inhabitants have degenerated is great from an artistic point of view since it emphasis their fall from grace. But there’s a splicer every 100 feet, and they’re violent and heavily armed. How have they not all killed each other off? How do they feed themselves underwater when there’s no sane people left producing food? The number of sane and potentially productive people left in the city can be counted on two hands, it’s just not enough to keep a city going in that condition.

Overall it feels like I’m moving through an abstraction of a setting, not a real place. The abstraction is compelling and interesting, but it never draws me in. It’s like a comic book, the action grips your attention at first, but eventually you wonder how Spiderman is swinging above skyscrapers…what the hell is that web attached to? The setting is like a cardboard cut-out made only to give the impression of a city, rather than the appearance of one. Once you poke that backdrop even a little, it falls apart.

I will say that the audiologs are still terrific, and are really the only things that give me any impression of there having been a society in Rapture at all. Also, I didn’t have this same apprehension with Systemshock’s setting. Again, perhaps it’s because I’ve just been spoiled by modern gaming budgets.

I hate to say it, but I think the main thing I'm missing from Rapture are the generic "closed-doors" that are so common to other games. Developers usually toss in these locked doors because they don't have the time and resources to create a room behind them, but they place the doors there to give the player the impression that there /might/ be a room behind them, and an excuse for the mind to imagine that there is one. Rapture just doesn't have enough of these closed doors to even pretend that there's more to the city that I'm not seeing. The only nods towards a larger city are the brief glimpses of the city's "skyline" in underwater sequences. By excising these closed doors, they do present a much more focused experience by eliminating unnecessary set dressing, I suppose it was a design decision on their part.
 
Last edited:
I completely agree with you here. Bioshock was a wonderfully artistic game and well realized. But I think the real issue here is, put simply, plot holes and lot of environmental factors are unexplained for the purpose of making a balanced game. Why are there ammunition vending machines? Why are there "vita chambers" if you are the only one that is revived there? I believe that the actually script and plot are absolutely fantastic. But when you get down to the "nitty gritty", the things that make it a playable game actually completely ruin the immersion. In playing Bioshock one must let all that go and focus on the storyline itself and "funness" of the abilities combined with guns gameplay. Just my two cents I suppose.
 
I found it impossible to get into bioshock 2. With all the good games around lately it was just too boring.
 
1) Are you talking Bioshock 1 or Bioshock 2? Sounds more like B1

2) Your comments are vague enough that they may not be a spoiler, but the responses to your comments could make this thread a spoiler and a spoiler alert should go at the top.
 
I completely agree with you here. Bioshock was a wonderfully artistic game and well realized. But I think the real issue here is, put simply, plot holes and lot of environmental factors are unexplained for the purpose of making a balanced game. Why are there ammunition vending machines? Why are there "vita chambers" if you are the only one that is revived there? I believe that the actually script and plot are absolutely fantastic. But when you get down to the "nitty gritty", the things that make it a playable game actually completely ruin the immersion. In playing Bioshock one must let all that go and focus on the storyline itself and "funness" of the abilities combined with guns gameplay. Just my two cents I suppose.

I haven't finished Bioshock but about the Vita-Chambers: Remember that the city was once populated with normal people and whatnot, and while I'm not sure what the Vita-Chambers might have served for back then, it was probably to live a longer life or live for eternity. You're the only one using it now because all the other people left alive are monsters that are too dumb to figure them out.

Maybe :p
 
SPOILERS??

If I remember correctly, one of the diaries said that the Vita-Chambers were used with Ryan's genetics or something so they could resurrect him using plasmids. Since you were his son, the Vita-Chambers worked with you as well. Then something in Bioshock 2 where the Little Sister added Subject Delta's gene to them in the beginning.
 
Last edited:
If I remember correctly, one of the diaries said that the Vita-Chambers were used with Ryan's genetics or something so they could resurrect him using plasmids. Since you were his son, the Vita-Chambers worked with you as well. Then something in Bioshock 2 where the Little Sister added your gene to them in the beginning.


MUTHER************************* SPOILER WARNING PLEASE!!!:mad:


dammit damit dammit entire game ruined! Forget I'm gonna go play Modern warfare 2 at least no one can make that game any worse than it already is!

It's an almost three year old game. If you don't want to read any spoilers, don't read any threads about it. FYI, John dies at the end of MASH. -Oldie
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I pretended vita-chambers didn't exist in both games.

I agree with the story assessment, I felt no need to read the diaries because of it.

Bioshock 1 you should play for the unique feel.

Bioshock 2 you should play mainly for the gameplay (so play on hard).
 
if you want an immersive game play stalker soc with complete 2009 or stalker cop
 
if you want an immersive game play stalker soc with complete 2009 or stalker cop

People keep recommending stalker, and not to threadjack, but half of the time, I didn't know what the hell was going on in that game? Maybe the dialogue was just so boring that I didn't bother reading it, but I couldn't play for more than 20 minutes without falling asleep.
 
Now that is how a criticism post should be written!

I find myself actively looking for details like what you described in all games I play. It's like I want to ruin the immersion factor for myself.
 
People keep recommending stalker, and not to threadjack, but half of the time, I didn't know what the hell was going on in that game? Maybe the dialogue was just so boring that I didn't bother reading it, but I couldn't play for more than 20 minutes without falling asleep.

Get out of here Stalker!
 
People keep recommending stalker, and not to threadjack, but half of the time, I didn't know what the hell was going on in that game? Maybe the dialogue was just so boring that I didn't bother reading it, but I couldn't play for more than 20 minutes without falling asleep.

And dialogs are kinda explain you what is going on there. It's not a dull run and gun game.
 
Mass effect is a far worse offender for this (both games).
Sorry to go slightly off topic, but I feel it's relevant...


Take the Citadel in Mass Effect. This is the hub of the ENTIRE galaxy for ALL alien life. The place should be a busy, heaving mess of people everywhere. Tourists, business people, etc etc. Yet you wander around a nearly empty place with a few people littered about here and there.

I think the problem is that graphics are now getting very damn close to real life and we are now exposed, more than ever, to the stupidity of level design. At least it makes sense to some degree. Look at Doom's level design; it's purely a game level, there's no reason for any room to be there at all. So we have moved on, a bit.


It seems to me that level designers are still stuck in the 'game' mindset and need to learn to move on up to a 'realism' mindset. As the OP said, closed doors are a very good way to get round this cheaply. Personally I don't find closed doors a problem in any game ever. Infact I actually appreciate the fact that there's one less room for me to have to explore!
 
It seems to me that level designers are still stuck in the 'game' mindset and need to learn to move on up to a 'realism' mindset. As the OP said, closed doors are a very good way to get round this cheaply. Personally I don't find closed doors a problem in any game ever. Infact I actually appreciate the fact that there's one less room for me to have to explore!

Yeah, because what people really would want to do in a large, populated area, is spend countless hours wading through thousands of useless NPCs to find the one they are supposed to be talking to..

If games were turned into Realism Simulators, what would be the point? I play games to get away from real life, not to play a simulated extension of it.
 
Mass effect is a far worse offender for this (both games).
Sorry to go slightly off topic, but I feel it's relevant...


Take the Citadel in Mass Effect. This is the hub of the ENTIRE galaxy for ALL alien life. The place should be a busy, heaving mess of people everywhere. Tourists, business people, etc etc. Yet you wander around a nearly empty place with a few people littered about here and there.

I think the problem is that graphics are now getting very damn close to real life and we are now exposed, more than ever, to the stupidity of level design. At least it makes sense to some degree. Look at Doom's level design; it's purely a game level, there's no reason for any room to be there at all. So we have moved on, a bit.


It seems to me that level designers are still stuck in the 'game' mindset and need to learn to move on up to a 'realism' mindset. As the OP said, closed doors are a very good way to get round this cheaply. Personally I don't find closed doors a problem in any game ever. Infact I actually appreciate the fact that there's one less room for me to have to explore!


I felt the exact same thing with Mass Effect 2. Mass effect 1 had a bit more sprawl to it, and a bit more travel involved (I think the zero punctuation guy wrote a column about this regarding ME2). Developers are stuck between trying to serve up a dense experience packed with interesting things, and incorporating enough additional space to provide a sense of scale. They have to strike a balance in the pacing of the experience.

On the subject of closed doors, I was blown away by the Procedural Structure System by one of the Crytek developers ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZbnCeV7jJw ) which can create cities automatically! They aren't especially detailed, but once the engine spits out a neighborhood, a human developer can gloss it up and then insert it into the game. This still leaves them with time to focus on making an interesting and complex main path for the player to follow, while also allowing them to completely flesh out the rest of the neighborhood in case the player wants to veer off the main path a bit.

After thinking about it a little more, I do appreciate that smaller levels means less time wondering if I missed anything interesting. I liked the highlight effect used to point out items of interest in both Bioshock and Mass Effect. I remember a lot of people complaining when the shine was added to items in the Thief series. I really don't have much time to play games these days so I'm a little sensitive to timesinks in games now.
 
Yeah, because what people really would want to do in a large, populated area, is spend countless hours wading through thousands of useless NPCs to find the one they are supposed to be talking to..

If games were turned into Realism Simulators, what would be the point? I play games to get away from real life, not to play a simulated extension of it.

Come on, it wouldn't be hard to have a dense crowd and a direction arrow and character highlight to guide you.

The lack of crowds in games is due to polygon count, nothing more.
 
Sofia Lamb pales in comparison to Andrew Ryan. Plus the mulltiplayer in 2 was kind of lame, would've gladly payed 10 or 15$ less for just the single player.
 
I pretended vita-chambers didn't exist in both games.

I agree with the story assessment, I felt no need to read the diaries because of it.

Bioshock 1 you should play for the unique feel.

Bioshock 2 you should play mainly for the gameplay (so play on hard).

Agreed, if you played the first should play the second on hard, with all the new games out i was very discourage, but find myself playing Bioshock 2 way more than anything else, harvesting is such a rush, story and voice overs are good.
In games like Mass Effect 2 i can see the plot a mile long and the combat can get clunky, one major turn off is some minor characters sounding like some white dude picked up off the streets of LA.

"No racial offense intended"
 
Last edited:
I agree 100% with the OP regarding Bioshock. Everything was done up nice and pretty and there was the chance for it to be immersive but it failed in that aspect. I don't think it has anything to do with modern game budgets or anything of the sort. The developer just didn't properly create the levels to immerse the player into the game. Overall the game felt more like a technology demo with a plot than an immersive game. I consider myself lucky that I only paid $5 for it during a Steam sale. It's a game I played through once but don't ever seeing myself playing again and I didn't find it very fun.

I guess my biggest gripe overall, and a reason I probably won't play it again, is because the atmosphere was good, everything was detailed and it looked beautiful but it wasn't immersive and I never really felt like I was inside an underwater city. To me it's a disappointment considering all the stuff they did get right with the game.

 
if you want an immersive game play stalker soc with complete 2009 or stalker cop

I'll second that,no FPS I've played drew me in as much as STALKER:SoC. I spent hours just exploring the Zone in freeplay mode after completing the game.
 
Yeah, because what people really would want to do in a large, populated area, is spend countless hours wading through thousands of useless NPCs to find the one they are supposed to be talking to..

If games were turned into Realism Simulators, what would be the point? I play games to get away from real life, not to play a simulated extension of it.

lol. I've recently had a similar sentiment.

I've only just finished ME1 for the first time. I was joking with some friends at work about some of the menial tasks you're sent on in the assignments off of the main story. I figured that next I'd have to play late because I had a spreadsheet due for the Admiral by close of business and I had to get milk on the way back to the Citadel and HEY, WAIT A MINUTE - this isn't an escape from regular life! :D
 
Stalker SOC is hit or miss. Friends of mine love it to death. I could barely stand it enough to finish it ~ until the last few areas/part of the story I thought was cool. (note I did NOT mod it though probably should have)

Kotor, Dragon Age, and maybe Vice City were the only good sandbox immersion games for me.

For non-sandbox immersion... HL1, Blue Shift, Opposing Force.. can't think of anything recent. HL2 Episode 2 I guess. Oh the ratchet and clank games though I'm a bit old for it.
 
Stalker SOC is hit or miss. Friends of mine love it to death. I could barely stand it enough to finish it ~ until the last few areas/part of the story I thought was cool. (note I did NOT mod it though probably should have)

Kotor, Dragon Age, and maybe Vice City were the only good sandbox immersion games for me.

For non-sandbox immersion... HL1, Blue Shift, Opposing Force.. can't think of anything recent. HL2 Episode 2 I guess. Oh the ratchet and clank games though I'm a bit old for it.

I never finished stalker,just couldn't get into it. The game just bored me to tears.
i wouldnt call kotor or dragon age sand box by any stretch of the imagination.
bioware don't do sandbox ;)
 
Im at the point where you have to save arcadia or the trees or whatever and frankly I'm bored with it. Don't fucking end the main plot of the game on a down note and then make me do some retarded fetch quest. I really don't feel like I'm supposed to care about rapture. I just want to fucking leave. Unless this gets badass by the end I don't think I'll be coming back for Bioshock 2.

Sorry for the cussing but Bioshock is really starting to piss me off and it's not one of those things where I can just stop playing I have to beat this POS so I can move on with my gamelist.
 
i thought bioshock was done very well. especially the voice overs and sound effects. did you guys play it with 5.1 surround sound? that helped it a lot. along with dead space, bioshock had some of the best sounds in 2009 imho.
 
I finished Bioshock 2 last week and I enjoyed it though I felt like it picked up alot more steam towards the end, and the final battle was a joke, maybe I should've played on hard, don't know why I didn't. I tried to go on multiplayer two nights ago and couldn't find a game at all which sucked, so I might just go and sell back Bio1 and 2 to Gamestop for some store credit.
 
I didn’t have this same apprehension with Systemshock’s setting. Again, perhaps it’s because I’ve just been spoiled by modern gaming budgets

I don't recall SS/SS2 having a very big budget, but without a doubt they didn't fall into the pitfalls you exposed in your post regarding Bioshock. In my mind, they're both far better games than Bioshock for a variety of reasons, some of which you mentioned.
 
Back
Top