I'm not going to buy a GPU with a hash limiter

noko

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As more things become available for people to do, to spend money on, inflation leaving less money to spend on less important things => I would suspect GPU sells will drop plus for gamers who just want to game, the Consoles at current non-inflated pricing if one can get one is really a huge bargain for what you get. Inflation has also hit very hard on a number of items, wood, steel and other stuff leading to rapid price increases for housing and building. Not sure when the dust settles how this will affect the PC component market. Crypto is way past due for a significant correction besides a real need to just weed out most of the worthless coins, I guess the pain is not great enough yet, with the rather easy print up money as you go from the Fed, how things will work out is just totally unclear. Inflation makes it very hard for companies to predict what will be profitable or just a straight loss, what to invest in long term, predicting costs for new manufacturing facilities or longer term contracts can become death sentences quickly meaning companies may hold back from more long term goals and start cancelling projects until the dust settles. I expect delays are more likely for new PC items.
 

x509

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As more things become available for people to do, to spend money on, inflation leaving less money to spend on less important things => I would suspect GPU sells will drop plus for gamers who just want to game, the Consoles at current non-inflated pricing if one can get one is really a huge bargain for what you get. Inflation has also hit very hard on a number of items, wood, steel and other stuff leading to rapid price increases for housing and building. Not sure when the dust settles how this will affect the PC component market. Crypto is way past due for a significant correction besides a real need to just weed out most of the worthless coins, I guess the pain is not great enough yet, with the rather easy print up money as you go from the Fed, how things will work out is just totally unclear. Inflation makes it very hard for companies to predict what will be profitable or just a straight loss, what to invest in long term, predicting costs for new manufacturing facilities or longer term contracts can become death sentences quickly meaning companies may hold back from more long term goals and start cancelling projects until the dust settles. I expect delays are more likely for new PC items.
Overall I agree with this post. For me, the decision to buy a 3060 Ti (my first choice, since I'm not a gamer) vs. a lower cost gimped 3060 Ti would depend on price. I guess if I now had that 3060 Ti, I would be doing some small-scale mining like a lot of other guys. But I would have to consider how much I can reasonably expect to earn as profit vs. the price difference.

In other words, I haven't a friggin' clue. :confused:
 
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Riptide_NVN

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The last mining boom it was difficult finding cards and the current mining boom it’s difficult finding cards. Each time there’s a mining boom, there’s been a supply problem.
This is a true statement. However, this time around the situation is a bit more complex than that.
 
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kirbyrj

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And if they can't tell which model it is, it won't matter anyway: Just buy them ALL and scalp the LHR models.
... Or just mine on the LHR's because it's probably still going to be profitable.

I think an interesting test is going to be the 3080Ti. I game and mine on the side. Since I already have a 3090, I would be tempted to buy one anyway and then trade for another mining card personally or convert the 3090 to full time mining and just game on the 3080Ti.
 

Saabjock

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I only care about hash-gimping and any of the methods used as it pertains to driver performance.
I can see an aweful lot of confusion in that area.
 

AVT

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Does someone have info on exactly what the hardware change made in the LHR cards is? As a byproduct, does this also limit performance for AI and other non-gaming use cases? I can't find info on this online anywhere.
 

dthree

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I can understand limiting it for new product models like the 3060 / 3080ti.. but why change existing product lines like the 3060 TI/3070,3080 etc. That dilutes what is out there already and then nobody will have any idea which cards have the hash limiter and which do not until they actually test it. Such a a pain IMO when buying used cards or even cards brand new in box.
 

pendragon1

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I will bet dollars to donuts that their next product announcement is consumer grade compute cards. Like a regular card, but with a mining-optimized BIOS, mining-optimized drivers, no hash limiter obviously, no display capability, higher price.
i thought they tried that but the miners just kept buying them anyways?
 

pendragon1

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I can understand limiting it for new product models like the 3060 / 3080ti.. but why change existing product lines like the 3060 TI/3070,3080 etc. That dilutes what is out there already and then nobody will have any idea which cards have the hash limiter and which do not until they actually test it. Such a a pain IMO when buying used cards or even cards brand new in box.
the new cards have the LHR designator on them.
 

JSHamlet234

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i thought they tried that but the miners just kept buying them anyways?
Not sure, I bought my last graphics card, a 1070 for one of the kids, right before the last mining craze, so I wasn't paying attention other than I couldn't believe how much it went up in price a few months after I bought it.
 

dthree

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the new cards have the LHR designator on them.
You can visually see the LHR designation on the outside of the box? as well as on the sticker on the card itself? (sometimes ppl throw out the boxes when selling used video cards)
 

pendragon1

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You can visually see the LHR designation on the outside of the box? as well as on the sticker on the card itself? (sometimes ppl throw out the boxes when selling used video cards)
nvidia says they have to be labeled, i would assume sticker too with a LHR or v2.0, read the blog tainted posted.
 

dthree

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Not sure, I bought my last graphics card, a 1070 for one of the kids, right before the last mining craze, so I wasn't paying attention other than I couldn't believe how much it went up in price a few months after I bought it.
It's funny that buying video cards is like buying stock or assets like gold that can go up in value after you buy it when normally electronics depreciate in value. I should have bought a ton of new/used video cards last year :)
 

TaintedSquirrel

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So basically the name of the card can stay the same, the model number can stay the same.
But "LHR" has to be on the box somewhere and in the product listing (presumably the spec sheet).

Because these GPUs originally launched with a full hash rate, we want to ensure that customers know exactly what they’re getting when they buy GeForce products. To help with this, our GeForce partners are labeling the GeForce RTX 3080, RTX 3070 and RTX 3060 Ti cards with a “Lite Hash Rate,” or “LHR,” identifier. The identifier will be in retail product listings and on the box.

I think they left the model numbers alone to avoid interfering with existing backorders and queues (like EVGA and some retailers use). It's still probably going to be easy to miss since most people don't actually read the entire specs top-to-bottom when they buy a card, nor do they actually even see the box before they order it.

Zotac actually seems to be adding a label into the card name:
https://videocardz.com/newz/zotac-o...w-geforce-rtx-3060-series-lite-hash-rate-gpus

I think Galax did as well.
 
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Sir Beregond

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i thought they tried that but the miners just kept buying them anyways?
They did. What use are the mining cards as they are destined for e-waste or worse. No resale value whatsoever. If crypto crashes, miners have an extremely hungry audience of gamers to unload their stock of GeForce cards too.

Also if presumably none of the former cards are still produced without the limiter, expect those cards to continue rising in price.
 

soulesschild

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They did. What use are the mining cards as they are destined for e-waste or worse. No resale value whatsoever. If crypto crashes, miners have an extremely hungry audience of gamers to unload their stock of GeForce cards too.

Also if presumably none of the former cards are still produced without the limiter, expect those cards to continue rising in price.
This has always been my concern with mining over any of the other energy concerns. It's these huge dumps of cards into e-waste that can't be sold once the "next best mining card" comes out. E-waste is only an ever growing problem and while almost no government right now is investing in solving it, I think it will creep up on us sooner than later.

What I really hope for in the best case scenario is that better e-waste processes come out/become a profitable business along with more renewable energy development/investment if crypto mining continues to be a thing.
 
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LucasG

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People will mine until ETH is no longer mineable. Stop waiting for a crash of crypto to ease the limited availability because it won't. When it crashes and all those small miners sell their cards the real miners will snatch 'em up so fast even if they make just $1 of profit per card. People learnt from 2017 and most are way more invested than before.
 

Riptide_NVN

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I know I have. This time around I'm sticking with it and will continue to stack. If not eth, then something else. It's a hobby for me though, not a serious business. How people react will somewhat depend on why they are doing it in the first place.
 

auntjemima

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I know I have. This time around I'm sticking with it and will continue to stack. If not eth, then something else. It's a hobby for me though, not a serious business. How people react will somewhat depend on why they are doing it in the first place.
Bingo. The ones panicking are the ones that didn't do their research and are the type that will sell their stocks if it drops mere percentage points in a day. Panic buyers and sellers.
 

Sparky

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IMO the LHR should be priced less. It only is limited on ETH so any other algorythym it ill hash just fine.
 

noko

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rinaldo00

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This has always been my concern with mining over any of the other energy concerns. It's these huge dumps of cards into e-waste that can't be sold once the "next best mining card" comes out. E-waste is only an ever growing problem and while almost no government right now is investing in solving it, I think it will creep up on us sooner than later.

What I really hope for in the best case scenario is that better e-waste processes come out/become a profitable business along with more renewable energy development/investment if crypto mining continues to be a thing.
They are already are
https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZLBR&pc=MOZI&q=making+ewaste+profitable
 

Agent_N

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My issue with crypto is simply the amount of power it consumes. I don't pretend to know economics. I don't understand the blockchain and I haven't yet desired to learn about it.
Power, though, is an issue. There are no nuclear power plants where I live and I don't (yet) have solar power - it just doesn't feel right to me.
Things like f@h, CERN, launching rockets into space - that I can justify (to myself) because new technologies appear.
Crypto I just can't - and it might be my own damn fault for not understanding the benefits.
Proof of work blockchain do require a fair amount of power, but proof of stake blockchain (Ethereum 2.0) will use a fraction of the energy that proof of work consumes. Crypto is in its infancy/toddler stage in life, give people time to work through the challenges and hurdles to get better crypto platforms developed that are faster, with lower fees, proof of stake for the green dynamic, have solid security, etc. Don’t write off the earth steam traction engines that were hot, took a lot of work to run, and were not efficient in the way modern, evolved farm tractors are today, without the old steam traction engines, we wouldn’t be where we are today with farm equipment. Give crypto time to be developed past its own steam traction engine time so it can grow into a lean, energy efficient, means of buying and selling goods and services.
 

Agent_N

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That's an interesting take on what he said.

But no, it has nothing to do with power companies. Mining requires electricity and a lot of the electricity produced to power mining - especially in China where there are massive BTC and other mining farms powered via coal plants - generates pollution. Mining has real negative externalities that most of the proponents simply ignore.
And you sir, are ignoring that once Ethereum makes the switch from proof of work (GPUs mining) to proof of stake it will consume a fraction of the amount of electricity that it consumes now, according to some estimates 99.5% less electricity. The same could be true of a Bitcoin if it was switched to proof of stake. Give crypto platforms a chance to grow and improve, crypto is only in its infant/toddler stages right now, it hasn’t had time to evolve into a lean, green, low fee, quick transaction currency exchange system yet.

Also, banks and banking branches around the world consume a lot of electricity as well, so they aren’t the greenest way for USD either.
 
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Rizen

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And you sir, are ignoring that once Ethereum makes the switch from proof of work (GPUs mining) to proof of stake it will consume a fraction of the amount of electricity that it consumes now, according to some estimates 99.5% less electricity. The same could be true of a Bitcoin if it was switched to proof of stake. Give crypto platforms a chance to grow and improve, crypto is only in its infant/toddler stages right now, it hasn’t had time to evolve into a lean, green, low fee, quick transaction currency exchange system yet.

Also, banks and banking branches around the world consume a lot of electricity as well, so they aren’t the greenest way for USD either.
I'm not ignoring it.

1) Ethereum hasn't switched yet.
2) There are still ASIC farms mining bitcoin and those consume a lot of power.

RE: the perceived benefits of crypto, I have yet to see anyone explain why these benefits are inherent to crypto in particular. You could build a "lean, green, low fee, quick transaction currency exchange system" without building an entirely new currency with no tangible backing to do so. Several governments are already working on digital dollars.

The real reason a lot of people seem to back crypto is because they're paranoid about big government and want to extricate their finances from the global financial system which seems like a completely unrealistic goal.
 

philb2

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And you sir, are ignoring that once Ethereum makes the switch from proof of work (GPUs mining) to proof of stake it will consume a fraction of the amount of electricity that it consumes now, according to some estimates 99.5% less electricity. The same could be true of a Bitcoin if it was switched to proof of stake. Give crypto platforms a chance to grow and improve, crypto is only in its infant/toddler stages right now, it hasn’t had time to evolve into a lean, green, low fee, quick transaction currency exchange system yet.

Also, banks and banking branches around the world consume a lot of electricity as well, so they aren’t the greenest way for USD either.
As someone said a few weeks ago (and I can't remember who or in which thread ... ) crypto currencies are just an asset bubble. Look at the recent drop in Bitcoin. No way would keep any in my savings or online bank account. And no way Jose would I put some of my investments or retirement money into crypto. Heck, what's to prevent BTC from dropping to $500. Truly, absolutely nothing.

And where I live the only company that would take Bitcoin was Tesla, and I don't need one of those now or probably in the next 10 years. And Tesla wisely stopping accepting Bitcoin.
 
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