I'm not going to buy a GPU with a hash limiter

x509

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I see it now, that makes sense. The 4000 series would be a pretty hard sell if miners were dumping 3000-series en masse right before its release. People would scoop up a cheap Ampere based card and then stand pat for a generation or 2.
EXACTLY!!!!!
 

Okatis

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I dislike the driver/firmware limiter on principle. I personally don't mine but I'd be annoyed if they snuck in a limiter on my 3000 series in an update.
 
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vegeta535

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There's no way the US is backing anything with gold again with only 8,000 tons, people will just sell the crypto to clean out the treasury of the gold. The Breton Woods gold standard started when the US had 22,000 tons of reserves and that barely lasted 15 years before most of that gold got cleaned out and allied nations had to start bailing out the dollar through the London Gold Pool.

Besides, most experts agree China is understating it's reserves significantly, it's the #1 producer of gold in the world (2000 tons annually), and the #1 importer, and doesn't export any of its production, and only occasionally increases its official reserve amount by 50 tons here or there annually. Most believe they have well over 10,000 tons of real reserve. But even that isn't close to how much the US had post WW2, and we already know how that show ended in 1971. If anything oil (and US military protection rackets) has been a much better way to back the dollar than gold ever has.
It is why we need to do something about China now. They are going to become a mega power that will be unstoppable in the future.
 

Elios

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And then there are others like me who made 900% on my money.

You think Crypto is the only volatile asset? Oil went from $60 a barrel to $15 a barrel in 2020. The DOW was between 19,000 and 30,000 in 2020.
wall st. is gambling too and should be done away with
 

Chris_B

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Be interesting to see if this can be worked around or if it is a change in the silicon that stops any work around. Maybe then we might see better availability and more sane pricing.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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Be interesting to see if this can be worked around or if it is a change in the silicon that stops any work around. Maybe then we might see better availability and more sane pricing.
Firmware-based, probably. Driver-based, maybe.
If it's new silicon, Nvidia is not fucking around.
 

x509

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Firmware-based, probably. Driver-based, maybe.
If it's new silicon, Nvidia is not fucking around.
You are not kidding with your last statement. If of course is the question. New silicon is very expensive to do, and takes lots of time. So the question is, does NVidia care enough to spend all that money? Lot cheaper to change firmware, but I'm sure the "serious" miners will have a hacked BIOS available soon enough, probably for lots of money.
 

Riptide_NVN

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If it makes you feel any better the 6000 series AMD cards do not have a hacked BIOS available and they have been out for a while now. It may not be practical.
 

auntjemima

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just go gamble in Vegas like every one else if there is any thing cypto and GME shit is shown is Wall st. is rigged
Crypto is a much more guaranteed approach. In the last month I have made consistent gains on crypto, to the tune of over 20g's. I'll stick with it and enjoy the ride.
 

lobstar

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Crypto is a much more guaranteed approach. In the last month I have made consistent gains on crypto, to the tune of over 20g's. I'll stick with it and enjoy the ride.
I agree. I really like knowing I own almost all the means of my production and can coordinate with others to further guarantee my income through pools. And if crypto stops being profitable from mining with hardware there are plenty of angry nerds who will gladly buy my hardware for top dollar.

Firmware-based, probably. Driver-based, maybe.
If it's new silicon, Nvidia is not fucking around.
I wonder what would happen if these changes affect gaming negatively. Could you imagine the backlash? I have to imagine it's going to be some sort of detection system that just kills the power limit or something simple right? If that's the case wouldn't it be pretty easy for developers to work around it?
 

x509

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You'll accept the 0.5% the gracious banks have offered you and LIKE IT
Actually, there are safe ways to invest in the stock market with good long-term returns, through low-overhead mutual funds and the link. Index funds are one example. We could get into this more, but I don't want to get dinged by the moderator.

Historically,the value of PC hardware always goes down, including GPU cards. The crypto miners have created a Dutch Tulips situation. (Look it up.)
 

auntjemima

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Actually, there are safe ways to invest in the stock market with good long-term returns, through low-overhead mutual funds and the link. Index funds are one example. We could get into this more, but I don't want to get dinged by the moderator.

Historically,the value of PC hardware always goes down, including GPU cards. The crypto miners have created a Dutch Tulips situation. (Look it up.)
I'll look up you reference later. I think a huge draw for crypto investment is the, usually, quick profit.

I was in the stock market before crypto, but I know many that would have never invested in the stock market first. The world are horrible at saving, so people want to spend every penny. A stock/investment that has a long term turn around isn't attractive.

In the past few months I haven't gone a day without hearing someone mention BTC, ETH or DOGE, but never hear any stocks or mutual funds. It's the new get-rich-quick scheme.

Patience is key.
 

x509

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I'll look up you reference later. I think a huge draw for crypto investment is the, usually, quick profit.

I was in the stock market before crypto, but I know many that would have never invested in the stock market first. The world are horrible at saving, so people want to spend every penny. A stock/investment that has a long term turn around isn't attractive.

In the past few months I haven't gone a day without hearing someone mention BTC, ETH or DOGE, but never hear any stocks or mutual funds. It's the new get-rich-quick scheme.

Patience is key.
What (s)he said. ^ ^ ^
 

WilyKit

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Uh, there are plenty of examples out there that you can and has been done. You don't need to own a product to sue someone over it.
You can sue for anything. Winning a law suit is another matter. I’m willing to bet you’ll do neither (you won’t file one and you certainly won’t win) so why bother with the empty threat? Do you think an nvidia spokesperson is here quivering in their boots after reading that?
 

x509

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You can sue for anything. Winning a law suit is another matter. I’m willing to bet you’ll do neither (you won’t file one and you certainly won’t win) so why bother with the empty threat? Do you think an nvidia spokesperson is here quivering in their boots after reading that?
So you can always do a class action lawsuit, as in "Good luck Charlie." The lawyers make out like bandits. Us ordinary guys, bupkis. (look it up).
 

auntjemima

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Maybe to you. Won't matter to most.
It doesn't really matter, does it?

Another scenario, and there are many, is buying a new car. John's car comes with chrome rims at a cost of $2000 extra. You don't care about chrome rims, so boring ones are good for you! But wait! You would expect a reduction in price, no? Even though rims don't matter to everyone.
 

NightReaver

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It doesn't really matter, does it?

Another scenario, and there are many, is buying a new car. John's car comes with chrome rims at a cost of $2000 extra. You don't care about chrome rims, so boring ones are good for you! But wait! You would expect a reduction in price, no? Even though rims don't matter to everyone.
Depends if that really registers as a feature to people or not. You bias the question by saying non-chrome rims are boring. There are people that would be willing to pay more money just not to have gaudy chrome rims on a car. At the end of the day, the market will determine if mining performance matters or not.
 

thecold

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Depends if that really registers as a feature to people or not. You bias the question by saying non-chrome rims are boring. There are people that would be willing to pay more money just not to have gaudy chrome rims on a car. At the end of the day, the market will determine if mining performance matters or not.

I think it's safe to say, at least at the current demand, it will not make a difference. Will it make a difference later, maybe.
 

JSHamlet234

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I don't think these nerfed cards are going to improve the situation for gamers that much, for 5 reasons (in no particular order)

(1) Demand will still exceed supply - NVidia is not stupid. I think you will eventually be able to actually get a card, but you probably still won't like the price.
(2) Used Pascal and Turing cards will probably cost even more than they do now as full-bore Ampere cards could become even more scarce and even more valuable. Forget about ever replacing your 780 with a 2080 Super.
(3) Inflation in the COVID era is real - even if crypto collapses and the market saturates, we will never see flagship cards for $650 again.
(4) A gimped Ampere is still profitable for mining, especially if it's drawing less power with the Hash limiter working. Some people will still buy them for that purpose, even if the hash limiter can't be defeated, and especially if crypto keeps going up.
(5) The 3090 will probably never get gimped, so if you're someone who wants the best, GLWT.

In my opinion, the best case scenario for a gamer who doesn't mine is that you will be to able to get a nerfed 3060/3070/3080 for $700/1000/1500 with less than a 2 week wait within the next 6 months.
 
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Jandor

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Mining is not what causes the supply problem ! This is false excuse brought up by Nvidia. A little bit too much demand is the real problem. But Nvidia and AMD are happy with this. They just don't say it, and they gabricate a fake theory of the production stolen by miners. They first brought up another theory of the scalpers but that wouldn't last after the end of year huge market, so mining is so good to explain the lack of will to produce more, but the very real explanation of low production is to sell at much higher price. It is clear AMD has upped the price of his GPU chips, and the graphics card producers have done the same.
Furthermore, since Nvidia is trying to stop mining so hard on a new gaming series, I wouldn't be surprised that those new cards has some CUDA functions also halfed or at quarter the normal speed, like the old ways, when you had to buy professional cards to get the full CUDA speed. People using them 100% of time for gaming will applause the decision. Not sure most of the people will be happy to buy a 5 times more expensive card to run Photoshop optimised, not even thinking of the huge drop in speed of time consuming 3D rendering.
 

Jandor

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I don't think these nerfed cards are going to improve the situation for gamers that much, for 5 reasons (in no particular order)

(1) Demand will still exceed supply - NVidia is not stupid. I think you will eventually be able to actually get a card, but you probably still won't like the price.
(2) Used Pascal and Turing cards will probably cost even more than they do now as full-bore Ampere cards could become even more scarce and even more valuable. Forget about ever replacing your 780 with a 2080 Super.
(3) Inflation in the COVID era is real - even if crypto collapses and the market saturates, we will never see flagship cards for $650 again.
I know for sure people who are eager to buy an RTX 3050 4GB as long as it's less than 400 euros. Those are the new prices for gaming graphics card and they will stay, because I believe Nvidia and AMD and even Intel, especially Intel, will want to maintain those prices instead of producing more.
 

Nebulous

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Depends if that really registers as a feature to people or not. You bias the question by saying non-chrome rims are boring. There are people that would be willing to pay more money just not to have gaudy chrome rims on a car. At the end of the day, the market will determine if mining performance matters or not.
Hey! Leave my boring ass black rims alone! But in all seriousness I don't care either way if the vid card manufacturers implement a limiter. I don't mine and I don't plan to. Last time I did anything aside from gaming was FAH and SETI. And even then I thought that was a huge waste of time and energy. I've come to the realization that if my cards/chips burst into flames, neither Stamford University or Seti's institute will cover the damages. Now mining is a whole different animal. Sure you make money, but in order for it to pay off, you'll need to hash out a substantial amount for it to be profitable. If I did mine I would make a profit because I don't pay for electricity. My utilities are included in my rent. Hell I can have a farm in my spare bedroom :p

Since I don't wanna mine, all I wanna do is game, then let them implement the limiter, who gives a shit. It's all up to the consumer anyways and there should be a way to make the buying a new card field even so us gamers that don't mine have a chance of scoring a new card. More for us!
 

auntjemima

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Depends if that really registers as a feature to people or not. You bias the question by saying non-chrome rims are boring. There are people that would be willing to pay more money just not to have gaudy chrome rims on a car. At the end of the day, the market will determine if mining performance matters or not.
You can use a million different examples. I used one. If you bought a car that had less options than someone else but we're charged the same price, you would have an issue. Remember, miners are today, you might be tomorrow. It's about fighting for what's right.

Disabling features today, and being applauded for it, gives them ground to disable features they deem disruptive later. Nvidia isn't known for its holy decisions.
 

WilyKit

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Mining is not what causes the supply problem ! This is false excuse brought up by Nvidia. A little bit too much demand is the real problem. But Nvidia and AMD are happy with this. They just don't say it, and they gabricate a fake theory of the production stolen by miners. They first brought up another theory of the scalpers but that wouldn't last after the end of year huge market, so mining is so good to explain the lack of will to produce more, but the very real explanation of low production is to sell at much higher price. It is clear AMD has upped the price of his GPU chips, and the graphics card producers have done the same.
Furthermore, since Nvidia is trying to stop mining so hard on a new gaming series, I wouldn't be surprised that those new cards has some CUDA functions also halfed or at quarter the normal speed, like the old ways, when you had to buy professional cards to get the full CUDA speed. People using them 100% of time for gaming will applause the decision. Not sure most of the people will be happy to buy a 5 times more expensive card to run Photoshop optimised, not even thinking of the huge drop in speed of time consuming 3D rendering.
The last mining boom it was difficult finding cards and the current mining boom it’s difficult finding cards. Each time there’s a mining boom, there’s been a supply problem, which strongly suggests your opening sentence is inaccurate.
 
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The last mining boom it was difficult finding cards and the current mining boom it’s difficult finding cards. Each time there’s a mining boom, there’s been a supply problem, which strongly suggests your opening sentence is inaccurate.
Yup, I find it hard to believe that there are that many PC gamers out there buying up all these GPUs week after week, month after month, and quite possibly year after year if this continues.
 

JSHamlet234

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Yup, I find it hard to believe that there are that many PC gamers out there buying up all these GPUs week after week, month after month, and quite possibly year after year if this continues.

Yeah, it can't just be small-timers. What would keep the government of any given country from buying millions of graphics card in order to mine tremendous amounts of crypto and use it to their economic advantage? How about a mega-corporation? How about any entity with tremendous buying power?
 

DooKey

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Yeah, it can't just be small-timers. What would keep the government of any given country from buying millions of graphics card in order to mine tremendous amounts of crypto and use it to their economic advantage? How about a mega-corporation? How about any entity with tremendous buying power?
Already happening. Has been for a long time. Five letter word begins with C.
 
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