I'm not going to buy a GPU with a hash limiter

Armenius

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How long have some of you been waiting for this crypto bubble to burst? Gotta be going on 3-4 years now right ?
It technically crashed at the end of 2018. Values of nearly all crypto dropped off a cliff in November-December that year.
One could argue that crypto has has substantial and progressive growth over it's smaller sample of years.

I would argue there is intrinsic value. Obviously not every shit coin has the same value. But that really isn't the point of this thread.
I wouldn't call this kind of trend "progressive."

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OFaceSIG

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Really? A business that looks out for itself first and foremost. I am shocked I tell you. I reality people are no different. They look out for themselves first. Hence the scalping.

Nvidia, like Intel in the 90s/2000s goes a bit "beyond" simple profiteering. Plenty of articles and coverage out there to prove it.
 

michalrz

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My issue with crypto is simply the amount of power it consumes. I don't pretend to know economics. I don't understand the blockchain and I haven't yet desired to learn about it.
Power, though, is an issue. There are no nuclear power plants where I live and I don't (yet) have solar power - it just doesn't feel right to me.
Things like f@h, CERN, launching rockets into space - that I can justify (to myself) because new technologies appear.
Crypto I just can't - and it might be my own damn fault for not understanding the benefits.
 

Dan_D

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I too think in the end Nvidia does nothing for the good of anyone but itself. I bought my evga 3080 ftw3 because it was my first and probably only shot to get one without being scalped. I actually wanted a 6800 XT but simply could not find one at or close to MSRP. In the end, people will buy what they can find and what they can afford, or more accurately *think* they can afford.

To be clear, NVIDIA is only trying to make it look like they are throwing gamers a bone by limiting hash rates for mining. This way, they look like they care about the gamer. It's about reputation. The truth is, NVIDIA probably doesn't really care as they are selling every single GPU it can make. It's a good problem to have. If they can do some PR work on the cheap, then that's just another benefit. Lots of gamers believe AMD and NVIDIA don't do enough to stop scalping or to prevent GPU's from being snatched up by miners. Perception is important to companies in the long run. NVIDIA knows this.
 

Aireoth

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My issue with crypto is simply the amount of power it consumes. I don't pretend to know economics. I don't understand the blockchain and I haven't yet desired to learn about it.
Power, though, is an issue. There are no nuclear power plants where I live and I don't (yet) have solar power - it just doesn't feel right to me.
Things like f@h, CERN, launching rockets into space - that I can justify (to myself) because new technologies appear.
Crypto I just can't - and it might be my own damn fault for not understanding the benefits.
Naa the benefits are pretty miniscule apart from the whole 'down with fiat' thing, can basically guarantee its backbone is illegal transactions (drugs, countries seeking to go around sanctions). Its just an auto completing and balancing ledger otherwise.
 

pendragon1

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Naa the benefits are pretty miniscule apart from the whole 'down with fiat' thing, can basically guarantee its backbone is illegal transactions (drugs, countries seeking to go around sanctions). Its just an auto completing and balancing ledger otherwise.
thats always been my thought "who knows what its being used for"...
 

noko

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Naa the benefits are pretty miniscule apart from the whole 'down with fiat' thing, can basically guarantee its backbone is illegal transactions (drugs, countries seeking to go around sanctions). Its just an auto completing and balancing ledger otherwise.

thats always been my though "who knows what its being used for"...
The #1 currency used for illegal stuff is the mighty dollar :D. hmmmmm
 

kirbyrj

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ugh, you people. How is it not exactly what I say it is?

PS. I investigated, been paying various degrees of attention to it since it started.

Your "basic guarantee its backbone is illegal transactions" for starters. That is utter nonsense.

I'll grant you that was some of the appeal in maybe 2010-2013, but it hasn't been that way in years (Silk Road takedown?), yet people continue to spout that as a reason to ignore crypto in general.
 

Aireoth

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The #1 currency used for illegal stuff is the mighty dollar :D. hmmmmm
Never said it wasn't, nice strawman while avoiding inputting anything real.

Your "basic guarantee its backbone is illegal transactions" for starters. That is utter nonsense.

Prove it, also prove it is not what I say it is, an autocompleting and balancing ledger (that's it, nothing more).
 

noko

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Never said it wasn't, nice strawman while avoiding inputting anything real.



Prove it, also prove it is not what I say it is, an autocompleting and balancing ledger (that's it, nothing more).
The strawman started with your own comment. While inputting zero.
 

Aireoth

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The strawman started with your own comment. While inputting zero.
You have nothing, case closed.

This kind of response is all crypto-bros are able to present, you don't even know what you're buying, you just know that its gone up in value over time.
 

noko

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i said "i dont know what its doing" you said "cash is used for illegal stuff" and?!
Exactly, so what does that have to do with Crypto Currency, yes criminals will use what means to exchange, sugar, coffee, weed, dollars, BTC . . .
 

noko

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guess it went over your head, never mind.
You actually want it not to be known for what it is used for, that is definition of fungibility, which makes a good currency, that is not subjected to the whims of others.
 

pendragon1

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You actually want it not to be known for what it is used for, that is definition of fungibility, which makes a good currency, that is not subjected to the whims of others.
i do not know what the number crunching is doing, it could be anything. is that clear? if not drop it cause this is stupid.
 

noko

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Because its original use is directly tied to silk road and drug trafficking, not a state backed currency.
Not exactly, first real use was buying a pizza. As for drug trafficking I think the $ is way more used and BTC turned out to be poor for that type of use due to the public nature of all transactions.
 

Krenum

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I'll certainly buy one if given the chance & continue to dodge the monopoly money market and continue to buy gold & silver.
 

noko

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i do not know what the number crunching is doing, it could be anything. is that clear? if not drop it cause this is stupid.
Most coins it is totally transparent, every transaction. Everything adds up to the tee. Don't step into a conversation that you find stupid and don't want to learn anything.
 

kirbyrj

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Never said it wasn't, nice strawman while avoiding inputting anything real.



Prove it, also prove it is not what I say it is, an autocompleting and balancing ledger (that's it, nothing more).

so what is it then?

You are so hung up on the Bitcoin model that you're missing the forest through the trees. Smart contracts are the first thing that comes to mind with Ethereum (which is actually what we're talking about "mining"). Decentralized Finance is another. More recently, it's been used as a vehicle for bond issuance. That's just a start (while trying to avoid crypto based websites which one could argue are proliferating the "problem" from your perspective). It can be used for so much more than a simple ledger.

If you want to have a real discussion about it, it's worth looking into. If you're just looking to bring out the pitchforks because "I can't get muh GPU," then I guess I'm wasting my time.
 

Aireoth

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Not exactly, first real use was buying a pizza. As for drug trafficking I think the $ is way more used and BTC turned out to be poor for that type of use due to the public nature of all transactions.

Think isn't know, and there was plenty of news and evidence that BTC was being used on silk road to hide buying drugs.

Look, you cannot explain what it is other than money. we are spending a massive amount of energy and goods as a civilization to create this 'thing' that very few people (if any) actually understand what is being created. The BEST I have found is that it is an autobalancing and completing ledger, and it seems like a lot of resources being wasted to create something that is actually very simple.

You are so hung up on the Bitcoin model that you're missing the forest through the trees. Smart contracts are the first thing that comes to mind with Ethereum (which is actually what we're talking about "mining"). Decentralized Finance is another. More recently, it's been used as a vehicle for bond issuance. That's just a start (while trying to avoid crypto based websites which one could argue are proliferating the "problem" from your perspective). It can be used for so much more than a simple ledger.

If you want to have a real discussion about it, it's worth looking into. If you're just looking to bring out the pitchforks because "I can't get muh GPU," then I guess I'm wasting my time.

I'm looking to understand what is being created, a smart contract is just an extension of an autocompleting/balancing ledger. I see value in that, but is the value worth the real physical cost? It seems like a simple process to create these tools without needing to expend a horrific amount of material goods and consume a massive amount of energy. I don't actually give two flying F's about me being able to buy equipment, I'm a patient man with plenty of things to do if I can't get a GPU.

*(thanks for the links, will read in a bit)
 
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michalrz

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I'm looking to understand what is being created, a smart contract is just an extension of an autocompleting/balancing ledger. I see value in that, but is the value worth the real physical cost? It seems like a simple process to create these tools without needing to expend a horrific amount of material goods and consumer a massive amount of energy.
My thoughts exactly. I get that it can't be counterfeited, can be verified, and has 'a value' that involved parties agreed on.
But why like this?
 

noko

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I'll certainly buy one if given the chance & continue to dodge the monopoly money market and continue to buy gold & silver.
Sounds very smart, also no one really talks about the real negatives to Crypto, it's Achilles heal so to speak. It relies on networks, across country boarders etc. Cut off the network and well it can become useless. While that is one of it strongest strengths I see it as it's weakness as well. The problem with Gold and Silver is you have to lug it around, protect it, hide it maybe and hard to use it to purchase anything remote to you. Most Crypto I think is garbage and over time a few will make it and even ones not available today maybe the real winners. Gold and Silver looks to be winners always with a very sound history for both with Silver usage going up as time goes on. Unless millions of tons of Gold is found some where, asteroid, moon, falls out of the sky - Its value will always be there.
 

michalrz

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I guess in a way, cryptocurrency is ahead of its time. Art and paper money also have 'agreed upon' value and they are not as useful when SHTF and, say, the grid fails. They can be counterfeited, so there's that.
I would probably support the idea if we finally got ITER to successfully ignite :D
 
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noko

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Think isn't know, and there was plenty of news and evidence that BTC was being used on silk road to hide buying drugs.

Look, you cannot explain what it is other than money. we are spending a massive amount of energy and goods as a civilization to create this 'thing' that very few people (if any) actually understand what is being created. The BEST I have found is that it is an autobalancing and completing ledger, and it seems like a lot of resources being wasted to create something that is actually very simple.



I'm looking to understand what is being created, a smart contract is just an extension of an autocompleting/balancing ledger. I see value in that, but is the value worth the real physical cost? It seems like a simple process to create these tools without needing to expend a horrific amount of material goods and consumer a massive amount of energy. I don't actually give two flying F's about me being able to buy equipment, I'm a patient man with plenty of things to do if I can't get a GPU.

*(thanks for the links, will read in a bit)
Yes it was used for illegal and probably still is and I am referring to BTC with Silk Road. So? In BTC case it was not the best choice for many, using dollars traditionally as in cold hard cash making it untraceable is the drug kingdom preferred method. What is your point in other words? Silver is used, diamonds, Gold, Art is used illegally for transactions as well. You don't limit people freedoms based off of criminal actions, thereby putting criminals in charge in what you can and cannot do in a weird way.

As for power, depends on the coin, BTC is enormous energy expense for a Crypto, while others would make banks energy cost per $ transferred look enormous. Stake coins have 1000x if not 10000x less energy requirements for transaction due to how the blockchain is verified. Banks infrastructure, money making etc. is also not free. In other words don't lump BTC exorbitant mining costs into all coins. ETN is a proof of work coin like BTC except only non government type institutions can mine it, per transactions it makes any bank look grossly inefficient. Ethereum, ETH is going to a staking platform which should reduce the costs tremendously, initially a hybrid model and plus hopefully make gaming GPUs more easily obtain.
 
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noko

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As per OP, mining ability is a consideration for gamers now. Games now can indeed have Crypto in mind:
https://blocksdecoded.com/best-cryptocurrency-games/

If one actually have money earned in a game that can be transferred, not limited to one game only, it would create a whole new network of gaming interactivity. Something of note, plus not too much of a stretch saying Nvidia limiting Crypto mining on cards is also affecting the gamer directly.
 

TheSlySyl

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In much the same way that I absolutely do not care if my CPU has an onbuilt graphics card, I do not care if my GPU can mine. I'm never going to be using it either way. Better that it goes without if its cheaper.
 

auntjemima

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Probably both are using scripts.

Shame, so you deny any personal responsibility for the utter waste of electricity that is mining? We used to blame big corporations for pollution, but now that small people actually have the opportunity to choose profits over pollution they are just as bad, if not worse.

Never heard that spin before. WTH do you learn by keeping your PC running at full blow sending resources down the drain? I guess we can learn how long before the grid crashes? What a worthy cause.

Yeah. and here we go again the core of the problem: It's just what I gain, who cares about long term effects only my short term gains matter!

Not if it is a listed feature. They won't limit it on cards already sold as is.
Are you really white knighting for power companies?

I thought I had heard it all.
 

Rizen

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Are you really white knighting for power companies?

I thought I had heard it all.
That's an interesting take on what he said.

But no, it has nothing to do with power companies. Mining requires electricity and a lot of the electricity produced to power mining - especially in China where there are massive BTC and other mining farms powered via coal plants - generates pollution. Mining has real negative externalities that most of the proponents simply ignore.
 

Aireoth

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Are you really white knighting for power companies?

I thought I had heard it all.
umm, how would that be white knighting for power companies?

Their for profit industries that are happy miners are sucking grids dry, it means more profits and leeway to raise rates.

I know many here do not believe in climate change, but scarity of resources are non-debatible and most power comes from non-renewable resources.
 

Krenum

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I know many here do not believe in climate change, but scarity of resources are non-debatible and most power comes from non-renewable resources.
We have a scarcity of resources because of over population and people having more than they need or people not allowing certain alternatives to come to fruition for obvious reasons, money and power.
 

GoldenTiger

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In much the same way that I absolutely do not care if my CPU has an onbuilt graphics card, I do not care if my GPU can mine. I'm never going to be using it either way. Better that it goes without if its cheaper.
Spoiler alert! It won't be cheaper. In fact it will be more expensive since you can't mine back the cash as easily.
 
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