I'm not a fan of the whole motherboard layout and design

C

computerinfo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
381
After building systems for 8 years, I still think that the motherboard is still holding back system designs the most.

1. Why do that have to be so big and flat with fragile components waiting to be broken off?
2. Why do PCI cards need to all fit perpendicular, thus creating a large case needed.
3. Can't PCI cards be connected some other way like a modified SATA cable
4. Why are all components (MB, video cards, sound cards, etc) all flat? It just created the need for larger cases once again.
5. **** Does the CPU really need to be plugged into the MP or can it be made to plug in to the MB via a cable, thus allowing you to put the CPU somewhere else.
6. Windows XP or Vista on a chip plugged directly into the MB - Is this a concept that could work.

Why can't a MB be made so that all the components are unclosed in a shinny black box with only the necessary components and plugs available on the outside.

Any thoughts...
 
So... come up with a new standard that you think is better and get everyone in the industry to follow your specs.
 
careful..radical thinking like that will get you killed around here!
 
Sorry, but most of your ideas are bad.



1. Why do that have to be so big and flat with fragile components waiting to be broken off?

Small parts are always going to be fragile, unless you want to spend a TON more to harden it somehow.

2. Why do PCI cards need to all fit perpendicular, thus creating a large case needed.

Heat dissipation

3. Can't PCI cards be connected some other way like a modified SATA cable

No, electrical/latency issues.

4. Why are all components (MB, video cards, sound cards, etc) all flat? It just created the need for larger cases once again.

It would be extremely expensive and hard to make a video card or MB in a cube shape.

5. **** Does the CPU really need to be plugged into the MP or can it be made to plug in to the MB via a cable, thus allowing you to put the CPU somewhere else.

Electrical/Latency issues.

6. Windows XP or Vista on a chip plugged directly into the MB - Is this a concept that could work.

No, bad.
 
twenty five years from now the atx big tower case with liquid cooling and 1600 watt psu and asus p5e3 premium x48 mobo and asus 9800 gtx two gig video card and intel quad core extreme 9000 series cpu and ddr3 ram with 2000 mb fsb and fans and lights and buttons and wires and molex connectors all over the place ------ will be a chip .

sirreal7

p. s. but until then ------ ain't it fun !? ;)
 
I could forsee harddrives going away in the near furture with teragigs flash drives being a small chip you can plug in directly to the mb to run the OS and what-not.
 
sirreal7 said:
twenty five years from now the atx big tower case with liquid cooling and 1600 watt psu and asus p5e3 premium x48 mobo and asus 9800 gtx two gig video card and intel quad core extreme 9000 series cpu and ddr3 ram with 2000 mb fsb and fans and lights and buttons and wires and molex connectors all over the place ------ will be a chip .

sirreal7

p. s. but until then ------ ain't it fun !? ;)
Click to expand...

Well, yes, 25 years from now there will be something that can process that fast and be that small, of course, there will be something else that's way faster that will probably still need a computer case ;).

After all, it's not like computer cases have radically changed in the last 25 years even if they are substantially faster components inside them.
 
Thanks for the input people. My ideas may not be perfect, especially since heat is a main concern, but the point I am trying to make is that the standart computer case is an 80's style and in the year 2008 we need something better.

Take your fastest computer and put it in one of those little mac cases and I would be happy (especially if it had mini pci slots.
 
computerinfo said:
Thanks for the input people. My ideas may not be perfect, especially since heat is a main concern, but the point I am trying to make is that the standart computer case is an 80's style and in the year 2008 we need something better.

Take your fastest computer and put it in one of those little mac cases and I would be happy (especially if it had mini pci slots.
Click to expand...
yeah, that would be nice in a perfect world, but in reality there's a trade off you make between size and power. it's not just a matter of heat dissipation, but circuit complexity... the reason those new 3870X2 video cards are so huge is because AMD just can't fit the compenentry into a smaller place. it's amazing they were able to make it as small as it is.

computers can be much smaller than they were in the 80s, look at the macbook air as an example. but many people don't mind taking up a bit more space to have something extremely powerful. in 10 years, laptops will be much more powerful than desktops are today, but i'll bet you that desktops will still exist, just because people will always crave more power. at least i will :)
 
Don't be so quick to dismiss OP. The fundamental design of a motherboard came about over a decade ago when video cards didn't require active cooling and the whole architecture was dramatically different.

I am no engineer and I have no idea how to make things better, but without a doubt the ATX design is holding back video card cooling. What if CPU's needed a cooler that could fit in a slot (or two)? Say goodbye to huge heat dissipation.

Intel's Larrabee, a discrete GPU onboard, has great potential to offer better performance and high clock speed, but may necessitate a fundamental re-evaluation of the way we design motherboards.
 
Windows XP or Vista on a chip plugged directly into the MB - Is this a concept that could work
Click to expand...

It's headed in that direction with solid state flash drives. Not quite what you're thinking in that it'll still go through SATA but still technicially "on a chip".

Also come to think of it, PC's started out with the O.S. on a chip, in a sense. You would load a game directly from floppy, sometimes booting to it directly, and the game would interface with the hardware via BIOS instead of via the O.S. In some cases the games would bypass both the BIOS and O.S. and talk directly to the hardware, like with the old Sound Blaster boards.
 
Thanks for the input people. My ideas may not be perfect, especially since heat is a main concern, but the point I am trying to make is that the standart computer case is an 80's style and in the year 2008 we need something better.
Click to expand...

"80's style" cases were AT and baby-AT cases. The cases nowadays are ATX cases which are very different. The ATX standard was created in the mid 90's and I first recall seeing ATX systems shipped in 97. So no, we don't have "80's style" cases, we have 90's style cases.

The only way I could see that the standard could be changed for the better would be to standardize cooler retention brackets, even then though I doubt it would cover the massively huge coolers enthusiasts are using nowadays. Futhermore ATX did attempt to cover cooling with positive pressure cooling, which failed miserably. On second thought, let the standards commitees cover the demensions to ensure everything fits and leave the cooling to the enthusiasts and OEM engineers.
 
category_five said:
It's headed in that direction with solid state flash drives. Not quite what you're thinking in that it'll still go through SATA but still technicially "on a chip".

Also come to think of it, PC's started out with the O.S. on a chip, in a sense. You would load a game directly from floppy, sometimes booting to it directly, and the game would interface with the hardware via BIOS instead of via the O.S. In some cases the games would bypass both the BIOS and O.S. and talk directly to the hardware, like with the old Sound Blaster boards.
Click to expand...

Of course, those old sound blasters only worked right half of the time when you were trying to play games. I remember the old Sierra days when I played Space Quest 3 on my monochrome monitor.
 
PCs are an open architecture. To change the current designs, the industry as a whole would need to change. Apple would've been a good candidate for this kind of integration, but even they resorted to x86 architecture. The sucky thing about having a doohickey that you plug components into is that there would be so much added cost, and it wouldn't outweigh the benefits. If you had to make enclosures for all of the components then, you'd be using 50 times more plastic. I'm sure those environmentalists would go crazy! Yes, heat would be a huge problem too. Not to mention all the engineering difficulties

Components go in a case, nobody should wiggle capacitors when they're bored. The case is the enclosure.

Yeah most of our PCs look like Frankenstein compared to an integrated machine like an iMac or Mac Mini. Thoses are good little machines, but then again I'm sure we'd miss our customizable rigs! ;)

It would be cool to have everything on a chip, going super fast, we'll probably see that when we're seniors, and we've entered a star trek like era.

P.S. I'm not a mac basher, my apple stock made me loads of dough but is sucking now. hahaha...
 
category_five said:
"80's style" cases were AT and baby-AT cases. The cases nowadays are ATX cases which are very different. The ATX standard was created in the mid 90's and I first recall seeing ATX systems shipped in 97. So no, we don't have "80's style" cases, we have 90's style cases.
Click to expand...

True, but the overall design has changed little since the original PC - While some of us can tell the difference between the details in the original PC and a modern ATX, someone like, say, my sister, would say they look exactly the same but the ATX looks a bit smaller.

There have been other designs - just nothing major.

The odd thing is, the computer, one of the most complex electronic devices in the consumer marketplace, is probably the only thing in your house that doesn't have a "No user servicable parts inside" sticker on it.
 
I suspect the mobo and vid cards are made flat because that is the easiest (and most cost effective) means to manufacture and test highly layered structures.

Also, don't ignore the small form factor boxes. These are a significant advance from the '90s beige boxes.
 
computerinfo said:
After building systems for 8 years, I still think that the motherboard is still holding back system designs the most.

1. Why do that have to be so big and flat with fragile components waiting to be broken off?
2. Why do PCI cards need to all fit perpendicular, thus creating a large case needed.
3. Can't PCI cards be connected some other way like a modified SATA cable
4. Why are all components (MB, video cards, sound cards, etc) all flat? It just created the need for larger cases once again.
5. **** Does the CPU really need to be plugged into the MP or can it be made to plug in to the MB via a cable, thus allowing you to put the CPU somewhere else.
6. Windows XP or Vista on a chip plugged directly into the MB - Is this a concept that could work.

Why can't a MB be made so that all the components are unclosed in a shinny black box with only the necessary components and plugs available on the outside.

Any thoughts...
Click to expand...

1. hahaha omg...you're the only person that wants to work backwards. about 50 years ago computers were the size of living rooms. hows that for not being frigile and big?

2. orthogonal seems to be the best way to fit on a board where you ahve to connect your video inputs. and just to let you know... there are low profile cases you dont have to buy a regular standard case.

3. OMG... NO. well maybe yes but, NO!

4. flat is thebest design you fool.. what other design do you want? a spherical shaped board?

5. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH you are a bone head. why the hell do you want to do that? dude your whole computer is going to turn out to look like a damn octopus or medusa's head with a shit load of stuff coming out everywhere.

6. yes that could work but no one wants to add a damn OS on a ROM built into the damn motherboard.


MY Thoughts...

I have never heard or read anything so ridiculous in my life. I'm sorry if I sound a bit rude usually I'm quite reserve but after reading this post you are nothing but a whiny little girl. your thoughts and ideas will be thrown out the window if you ever presented to any manufacture. You want everything to run on damn wires!? having the cpu located directly on the motherboard is probably the best spot for it..

I can tell you this, the only thing that is bugging you about having the motherboard and cpu right ontop of each other is the size of the god damn heat sink. if you want somethign that small go buy a damn mac mini.
 
8 years of building computers? man you should be thankful we're able to do so much yet you're crying about PCI cards connected to SATA cables. :mad:x100000
 
The simple answer is “price”. The current manufacturing and board design processes have been streamlined over the years and the result is very affordable PC parts. To go in and change the manufacturing and design processes would quadruple the price overnight. Not too many of us are willing to pay 4x the price. So basically it’s not worth it to the manufactures.
 
BTX is actually a bigger change from ATX than the change from AT to ATX.
 
kirbyrj said:
BTX is actually a bigger change from ATX than the change from AT to ATX.
Click to expand...

While the success of BTX shows how keen people are to move from ATX - ie, they're not. A new platform would have to be very significantly superior before anyone would start going there.. somewhat improved thermal performance isn't good enough.
 
Mithent said:
While the success of BTX shows how keen people are to move from ATX - ie, they're not. A new platform would have to be very significantly superior before anyone would start going there.. somewhat improved thermal performance isn't good enough.
Click to expand...

My point was that the what we call ATX isn't really that big of a difference from what we used 20 years ago in AT format (I actually remember playing with my parents 8088 ;) ).
 
I think about about the layout everytime I do a new build. I hate having to spot cool 6 different areas around the case. I wish they put an enclosed wind tunnel at one end of the case. Then if you have a hot component, run a heat pipe from the chip to a heatsink, and put the heatsink in the tunnel. A bunch of small fans are noisy. My ceiling fans move more air and are a lot quiter. They need to get all the hot stuff together so we can cool it all at once.

They could also do a centralized water pipe instead of a wind tunnel. Have one large cool water supply that makes a simple run through the top of the case, and let everyone else mate heat exchangers to it to cool their heat pipes.

Todays layouts assume the CPU is primary source of heat and that's not really true anymore.
 
rabident said:
*snip*
Todays layouts assume the CPU is primary source of heat and that's not really true anymore.
Click to expand...

Maybe not for enthusiasts who have 8800 series graphics cards, but for my mom, dad, sister, aunt, uncle, etc... it sure is.
 
I'm sorry I was going to make an intelligent reply but I can't put aside the urge to be really rude and shoot down every idea rather coldly, so I'm not going to make a real reply.
 
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