I'm done with windows

N

NixZiZ

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
159
Windows has proved to be a pain in the ass. The only reason why I continued to stay on it was the adobe suite. Yes, I pay for CC. Yes, I do need it. However, now that my other two laptops are working, I will install linux on my "portable" laptop, and keep windows on my more powerful, "desktop replacement" laptop, an Asus G75VW. My primary machine will have Sabayon Linux installed on it. I like the gentoo distros, I just do not have the time to compile everything. Sabayon is one I have dabbled in before, has lots of that eye-candy goodness, and has a decent community behind it. In addition, it comes with steam pre-installed (BONUS)!

Why am I moving away from Windows, you may ask? Although Windows 8 is nice, I still do not like the fact I cannot tweak the living hell out of the OS, optimize it, etc. I don't play games all that often, so gaming does not matter to me. Windows prices are a bit of a gouge, and windows is not all that stable on the rolling builds I run. I think linux would be a better option, which would also perform significantly better compared to windows. I am used to linux, as my entire lab runs it, other than the PCs which I use to manage it. That is changing now. I will still keep Windows on a VM for a while, using virtualbox, to cover any loose ends (XenCenter... I'm looking at you).

Wish me luck with my migration this weekend.

TL;DR:
I decided windows was not the best option for me, and I am moving to Sabayon Linux now.
 
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I'm a Windows guy, but use the right tool for the job. In your case, it really sounds like Windows isn't. It's a phillips when you need a straight.

Since you're used to it, you won't have any problems. But, good luck!
 
Ur_Mom said:
I'm a Windows guy, but use the right tool for the job. In your case, it really sounds like Windows isn't. It's a phillips when you need a straight.

Since you're used to it, you won't have any problems. But, good luck!
Click to expand...


This. If you're one of the few that is well versed with Linux than there is probably no reason to run any other OS in your life time, except maybe dual booting for gaming, or in its own VM for that rare moment.

Personally I like my hand being held, with the ability to let go and do my own thing when I need/want to (Windows). Some users want their hand held the whole time (OSX), while others just want to run amok free to do as they want with no one holding them back (Linux).
 
To each their own. That's the great thing about choice :)

To be honest though, I'm becoming more and more OS agnostic, with the exception of a few games and stuff I need for work, everything I use a computer for is pretty much web based, where it doesn't matter what OS I'm using.
 
NixZiZ said:
Although Windows 8 is nice, I still do not like the fact I cannot tweak the living hell out of the OS, optimize it, etc.
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This has never been the point of Windows. Windows is a general purpose OS that is all about supporting a large array of software and hardware. If you want to run the widest variety of software with support for a large variety of hardware on a client x86 device, Windows is it. Otherwise any number of solutions are out there for more target scope and specialized needs.
 
NixZiZ said:
I like the gentoo distros, I just do not have the time to compile everything.
...
Why am I moving away from Windows, you may ask? Although Windows 8 is nice, I still do not like the fact I cannot tweak the living hell out of the OS, optimize it, etc.
Click to expand...

These don't add up. Compiling in Gentoo isn't really a big time investment if you know what you're doing. So if you don't have time to compile things (and, btw, once you've got a working Gentoo install you don't have to compile hardly anything. Pre-built binaries for your target architecture work just like on any other distro, of course, as is the nature of binaries), then you don't really have time to worry about optimizing your OS and 'tweaking it to the max'.
 
Dogs said:
These don't add up. Compiling in Gentoo isn't really a big time investment if you know what you're doing. So if you don't have time to compile things (and, btw, once you've got a working Gentoo install you don't have to compile hardly anything. Pre-built binaries for your target architecture work just like on any other distro, of course, as is the nature of binaries), then you don't really have time to worry about optimizing your OS and 'tweaking it to the max'.
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That is the problem. I am not a developer, so I do not really know how this stuff works in terms of compiling, etc. I needed an OS that worked, right at that time, as this was my work computer I have switched.
 
NixZiZ said:
That is the problem. I am not a developer, so I do not really know how this stuff works in terms of compiling, etc.
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If you don't know how any of it works, I can't imagine you'd be able to beat Windows in terms of optimization anyways. Microsoft has some of the best engineers in the world, so unless you're particularly talented you're not going to be able to optimize it better than they have anyways.

If your goal is optimization and performance, you really have to be on something like Gentoo and you really have to know your way around computer science. If you really just don't like Windows as much as you like Windows, switching to something like Sabayon makes a little more sense. So what's the real reason you're switching? Optimization, or personal preference?


Since you are on something that's mostly Gentoo underneath, though, I would strongly recommend taking a look at the Gentoo Handbook when you have time. It can be insightful, even for non-Gentoo users. Sabayon tries to hide portage from you, in favor of the simpler and binary based entropy. But I would argue that portage is one of the best parts of Gentoo, and it is still there underneath Sabayon.
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml?full=1
The sections under 'Working with Gentoo' and 'Working with Portage' are a great place to look at things. Maybe next time you reinstall, I can convince you to go the fully Gentoo route.

If you do decide you want to play with Portage at some point on your Sabayon build, I'd recommend you do extensive looking into it ahead of time though. Definitely at least start here.
https://wiki.sabayon.org/?title=HOWTO:_Safely_mix_Entropy_and_Portage
I have broken things before on Sabayon trying to use Portage.


NixZiZ said:
I needed an OS that worked, right at that time, as this was my work computer I have switched.
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See, the thing is Windows is already pretty good at that. And if the thing holding you back was software support, your work computer really doesn't seem like the first place to start the switch. Wouldn't it have made more sense, then, to keep your work computer on Windows and switch over your 'other' laptops to Linux? I'm not trying to be a hater, but it really doesn't sound like you're giving us the real reasons you're switching. The only way to approach Linux is with the attitude 'I have tried this out and I like this more than what I was using before', not 'I can optimize Linux to the max and I can't do that with commercial OS software'.
 
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Dogs said:
If you don't know how any of it works, I can't imagine you'd be able to beat Windows in terms of optimization anyways. Microsoft has some of the best engineers in the world, so unless you're particularly talented you're not going to be able to optimize it better than they have anyways.

If your goal is optimization and performance, you really have to be on something like Gentoo and you really have to know your way around computer science.
Click to expand...

It's not bad like that. He can choose between cpu schedules, IO schedules, different filesystems, different sound servers, different daemon initialization startups, etc...

Just need to read what each one is targeted for, if it fits his usage, and install it. No gentoo/recompiling required. If you're into things like that, tweaking can be fun.
 
Cheetoz said:
It's not bad like that. He can choose between cpu schedules, IO schedules, different filesystems, different sound servers, different daemon initialization startups, etc...

Just need to read what each one is targeted for, if it fits his usage, and install it. No gentoo/recompiling required. If you're into things like that, tweaking can be fun.
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And none of that really gives you that much 'room' for benefit, though. A good distro will ship with the obvious choices already picked anyways. Compilers really are the last frontier of optimization in Linux, since everybody has already done everything else for you.
 
Can you run CC in WINE? I haven't tried that yet. I still have to reboot to Windows or OS X to play with the Adobe stuff.
 
jmilcher said:
Kind of wondering the same thing.

OP- Cool story bro. Your baited post got a few people to respond.
Click to expand...

I actually did migrate to linux. I am actually running Sabayon 14. Migrating another machine tomorrow.

As for CC, I am not sure about wine. I will have a laptop that will stay Windows, however, and I will run CC on that. I will also get and use virtualbox for CC, I guess.

Another reason why I switched is because I really want to get to learn linux properly before I delve into compiling gentoo. I will look into gentoo for sure later though. For now, I just wanted to get away from windows, as I sort of grew sick of it.

Perhaps a bit of personal preference is in there too. I use linux on literally ALL my servers, and I sort of grew to like it more and more, grew to dislike the way windows does things. So part liking to see exactly what is going on, and part "Holy shit, I really like linux".

Sorry if my post seems like "bait".

I will dabble with portage, portage seems like a VERY interesting package management system. My reasoning is to get some experience with the way gentoo sort of "ticks" THEN I will make the final jump to gentoo.

My work computer does mostly lab administration, so it actually makes sense for me to switch that first. My "school" computer has to be fairly stable, so I will switch that once I have some more experimenting done. Most of my work is online, and I have been finding ways to overcome lots of windows software. If only adobe would support CC on linux...

RE: Caring
I don't care if you don't care. That's fine if you don't. I guess this thread will also journal my migration.

My desktop's migration was very fast and easy. Worked out of the box, no issues, took around 2 hours to get setup. No crapware to uninstall, did not even have to install drivers. All updates did not require a restart. If linux will continue to be like this, I'm staying.
 
lol, this kind of cure is worse than the disease if you rely on Windows native software.

Dual booting is always an option if you need to feed some type of control neurosis.
 
NixZiZ said:
Windows has proved to be a pain in the ass. The only reason why I continued to stay on it was the adobe suite. Yes, I pay for CC. Yes, I do need it. However, now that my other two laptops are working, I will install linux on my "portable" laptop, and keep windows on my more powerful, "desktop replacement" laptop, an Asus G75VW. My primary machine will have Sabayon Linux installed on it. I like the gentoo distros, I just do not have the time to compile everything. Sabayon is one I have dabbled in before, has lots of that eye-candy goodness, and has a decent community behind it. In addition, it comes with steam pre-installed (BONUS)!

Why am I moving away from Windows, you may ask? Although Windows 8 is nice, I still do not like the fact I cannot tweak the living hell out of the OS, optimize it, etc. I don't play games all that often, so gaming does not matter to me. Windows prices are a bit of a gouge, and windows is not all that stable on the rolling builds I run. I think linux would be a better option, which would also perform significantly better compared to windows. I am used to linux, as my entire lab runs it, other than the PCs which I use to manage it. That is changing now. I will still keep Windows on a VM for a while, using virtualbox, to cover any loose ends (XenCenter... I'm looking at you).

Wish me luck with my migration this weekend.

TL;DR:
I decided windows was not the best option for me, and I am moving to Sabayon Linux now.
Click to expand...

Optimize what?
 
Good luck on a Gentoo based Linux system. While I think 95% of what makes Gentoo special is a waste of time, any time someone switches to Linux it's usually a good thing. I'd take a look at Arch while you're at it if your open to maintaining a rolling OS. While Pacman isn't quite as elegant as a ports based system it's really, really good.
 
Ghettobox said:
Good luck on a Gentoo based Linux system. While I think 95% of what makes Gentoo special is a waste of time, any time someone switches to Linux it's usually a good thing. I'd take a look at Arch while you're at it if your open to maintaining a rolling OS. While Pacman isn't quite as elegant as a ports based system it's really, really good.
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But I LIKE gentoo! I have been comparing Arch and gentoo-based sabayon for a while now, and I chose Sabayon just because I like they way they do things... and it was also one of the first linux distros I tried years ago at this point.

So part comfort, part community, part gateway drug to gentoo.

I am using it right now, and it is very fluid. Very few problems with it. Sure, other linux systems may feel more refined, but refined is not what I look for, it is extensibility. I like the fact that I can still (carefully) use portage, in addition to entropy. It's not too popular also, so it will generate some interest in linux at my school other than "oh just another ubuntu/mint user". One thing I need to work on is getting Compiz Fusion working, something I have not been able to do as of yet. I like my eye-candy.
 
I also agree. Gentoo IMO is a huge waste of time. I can understand back in the day when you had systems w/ small amounts of RAM and you could really custom tailor your OS to your hardware but in today's hardware market and how far Linux has come, Arch for sure is my suggested way to go! I've loved Arch in-place of Gentoo for many years.

"Hey - look I'm doing a Stage 2 install of Gentoo...it's only going to take 7 hours but man will my system be so optimized"
 
Stoly said:
Optimize what?
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Exactly, what is it you think you need to optimize?

Windows has proved to be a pain in the ass.
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Again i don't really see any reasons except "tweak the hell out of the OS"

Specific.. perhaps there is other ways to do things than how your doing it now. Obviously Linux opens a whole world to OS control, but with that comes a whole world of problems as well.

windows is not all that stable on the rolling builds I run.
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What rolling builds you do work on for windows?

Windows is stable just fine, i beat the crap out of my work and home system, work on windows 8.1 and home on windows 7.. no stability issues here...

You say you like to tweak, to me it sounds like you are what is making windows unstable by playing around with things you don't know what they are..the same will happen in any OS.
 
I am 100% Linux at home / work / mobile but sometimes need to use OS X for music and can say that regardless for the countless things I hate about the Windows O.S., stability has never been one of them. The system is stable as fuck for me. It's everything beyond that which makes this not a great tool in my hand regardless of the job at hand.
 
Gauging the stability Windows compared to other desktop OSes I think is impossible. Windows supports so much more hardware and software and runs on so many more devices than any other desktop OS that I simply don't know how one could ever scientifically calculate and compare Windows' stability relative to other OSes.
 
Carlosinfl said:
I am 100% Linux at home / work / mobile but sometimes need to use OS X for music and can say that regardless for the countless things I hate about the Windows O.S., stability has never been one of them. The system is stable as fuck for me. It's everything beyond that which makes this not a great tool in my hand regardless of the job at hand.
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Pretty much this. I've never had a problem since 7 with stability in windows. On pretty much any type of machine.

heatlesssun said:
Gauging the stability Windows compared to other desktop OSes I think is impossible. Windows supports so much more hardware and software and runs on so many more devices than any other desktop OS that I simply don't know how one could ever scientifically calculate and compare Windows' stability relative to other OSes.
Click to expand...

Spot on. Obviously there will be certain cases, but as a whole MS does a pretty amazing job getting things to work across a myriad of machines and almost countless applications.
 
I don't think there are very many operating systems which actually suffer notable stability issues on a consistent bases. Any 'instability' is generally due to any of a number of outside factors.
 
Gentoo is a fun project, and it works great on a server. For the desktop I've found it to be a bit overwhelming to try to keep a system up to date because of the massive amount of dependencies that can get pulled in by packages. Like others have stated, compiling each package from scratch can end up chewing through more time than what it can be worth. Having an SSD in that system is going to be night and day difference though.

I would say Sabayon might be a better choice for a Gentoo desktop if they streamline the updates. You don't really want to get into having to unmasking packages if something you'd like to install isn't in the stable channel.
 
heatlesssun said:
Gauging the stability Windows compared to other desktop OSes I think is impossible. Windows supports so much more hardware and software and runs on so many more devices than any other desktop OS that I simply don't know how one could ever scientifically calculate and compare Windows' stability relative to other OSes.
Click to expand...

Like my Windows router, my Windows thermostat, and my Windows SmartTV.
 
Liger88 said:
Some users want their hand held the whole time (OSX)
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That's the worst dismissal of the achievement of making a *nix-like OS usable for the masses I've ever read.

I'd argue that Linux is great for people who want to be a system admin, and deal with clunky head scratching decisions. Then be talked down to when someone has questions. ;)
 
Cheetoz said:
Like my Windows router, my Windows thermostat, and my Windows SmartTV.
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Let's not forget Windows cash registers and ATMs, there are plenty of those, after all it is easy enough to find one with a Windows BSOD on the display.;) But comparing embedded devices and general purpose computers in the context of general purpose computer stability is the same thing. You don't typically install Photoshop or setup an Eyefinity or Surround displays on an embedded device for instance.
 
longblock454 said:
Ha ha ha, Windows is one of the least portable OSs in existence!
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...he said, either ignorantly or sarcastically.

Seriously, though. If you don't think Windows gets around, you're only demonstrating that you don't really know. Windows is found on just about as many devices as Linux is. Windows has found it's way onto tons of ubiquitous systems around you and you probably don't even realize it. Most ATMs run Windows. Same with lots of arcade games. Higher end cash registers and the POS systems used at bars and restaurants also often run Windows, as do the touch screen game stations they often have a bars. You may have also seen those handheld scanners they use at grocery stores and retailers for checking prices, inventory and printing barcodes...Those also run Windows, as do the self-checkout stations. Ford and Nissan (as well as a few other auto companies) also use Windows for their in-car computer systems. The in-car systems used by police officers is also Windows based, though that is essentially a laptop glued into the car's dash (but they do have to interface with a lot of communication equipment). A large amount of medical equipment also runs Windows. In addition to that, there's lot's of specialized equipment, industrial machines, embedded systems, scientific equipment, handheld tools and devices, audio/recording systems, etc. which run Windows. I wouldn't be surprised if the things utility companies use to record meter readings, the devices parking enforcement use, the systems used by shipping companies to scan boxes and record signatures, bottle return machines, smart vending machines, etc. and so forth were also running Windows. I have personally used many devices that weren't computers which were running Windows, so there's at least that many. I'm confident that I haven't seen every possible Windows device, either.
 
Dogs said:
...he said, either ignorantly or sarcastically.
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Neither.

Most ATM machine are x86, when Windows can compete with Alpha, ARC, ARM, AVR32, Blackfin, C6x, ETRAX CRIS, FR-V, H8/300, Hexagon, Itanium, M32R, m68k, META, Microblaze, MIPS, MN103, OpenRISC, PA-RISC, PowerPC, s390, S+core, SuperH, SPARC, TILE64, Unicore32, x86 and Xtensa I'll be impressed.
 
longblock454 said:
Neither.

Most ATM machine are x86, when Windows can compete with Alpha, ARC, ARM, AVR32, Blackfin, C6x, ETRAX CRIS, FR-V, H8/300, Hexagon, Itanium, M32R, m68k, META, Microblaze, MIPS, MN103, OpenRISC, PA-RISC, PowerPC, s390, S+core, SuperH, SPARC, TILE64, Unicore32, x86 and Xtensa I'll be impressed.
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Esoteric and obscure microarchitectures aren't important. What's important is that Windows runs an extraordinarily large and wide variety of host hardware and peripherals and is stable. The number of ATM hardwares is much more significant, for example, than the number of devices using underutilized architectures than Linux builds exist for. It's still a wide space of hardware, which requires windows to be general enough to be stable. There's also plenty of proprietary embedded systems that have special Windows embedded builds for them, so windows can be ported to whatever the needs are. Microsoft just doesn't waste their time on the obscure ones that aren't profitable.
 
Dogs said:
Esoteric and obscure microarchitectures aren't important.
Click to expand...

You've changed the subject, the point is Windows doesn't run as much hardware, at least my point, in which you commented on. Obscure or not, it blows Windows to pieces, argue if you wish.
 
... I think this is the first forum I have been on where the conversation did not devolve.

I think I love this forum. Anyways,

bman212121 said:
Gentoo is a fun project, and it works great on a server. For the desktop I've found it to be a bit overwhelming to try to keep a system up to date because of the massive amount of dependencies that can get pulled in by packages. Like others have stated, compiling each package from scratch can end up chewing through more time than what it can be worth. Having an SSD in that system is going to be night and day difference though.

I would say Sabayon might be a better choice for a Gentoo desktop if they streamline the updates. You don't really want to get into having to unmasking packages if something you'd like to install isn't in the stable channel.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they streamline the updates significantly. They have a package manager called Entropy which works like many other binary-based package managers, and so makes having a slick gentoo system much easier to run.


Carlosinfl said:
I also agree. Gentoo IMO is a huge waste of time. I can understand back in the day when you had systems w/ small amounts of RAM and you could really custom tailor your OS to your hardware but in today's hardware market and how far Linux has come, Arch for sure is my suggested way to go! I've loved Arch in-place of Gentoo for many years.

"Hey - look I'm doing a Stage 2 install of Gentoo...it's only going to take 7 hours but man will my system be so optimized"
Click to expand...

I want to learn how linux works, properly, so shoving myself headlong into a desktop environment with linux on it is actually how I learn. I learn by getting shoved into doing new things, and I come out better because of it.

I am actually really enjoying linux, my system is actually faster, and I can use more resources for say, running virtualbox to play with other stuff. I will be doing a full gentoo install in virtualbox I think, just to play with it without completely shredding my system.

Windows was just unstable, it kept crashing, I have no clue why, even after re-installs. With linux I did not crash yet.

Anyways, linux gives me most of the comforts of windows (No AAA games... but I have minecraft, so it's all good) so I think I will continue to use it, and stop giving microsoft money. There are some problems though, like my R9 290 fan curve to either be 20% or 100%, no in-between. I am googling around to see if anyone else has the same problem, however. I think I can fix it by installing AMD's proprietary drivers, I'll try that now, actually.
 
longblock454 said:
You've changed the subject, the point is Windows doesn't run as much hardware, at least my point, in which you commented on. Obscure or not, it blows Windows to pieces, argue if you wish.
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As many architectures != as much hardware. Sorry, but you're missing the big picture.
NixZiZ said:
I want to learn how linux works, properly, so shoving myself headlong into a desktop environment with linux on it is actually how I learn. I learn by getting shoved into doing new things, and I come out better because of it.
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I honestly believe it's the best approach if you wish to a actually know how Linux works. Good luck.
 
Dogs said:
As many architectures != as much hardware.
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I find it odd that anyone would seek to define 'portability' in terms of the latter — especially a programmer.

That Windows runs on many different configurations of x86 hardware is interesting, but that does not mean it is portable.
 
wonderfield said:
I find it odd that anyone would seek to define 'portability' in terms of the latter — especially a programmer.

That Windows runs on many different configurations of x86 hardware is interesting, but that does not mean it is portable.
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Certainly, but based on the other posts in this train of discussion I do not believe we are exclusively discussing portability, strictly defined as a programmer would define it. In his last post, for example, longblock454 (the only user who used the word portability) said "Windows doesn't run as much hardware", and it was to that which I offered the reply you are quoting.

On a side note, the discussion of 'porting' Windows isn't very interesting. Enough people do it (if your business is worth enough to Microsoft, they offer you the source code for you to adapt to your needs), and all of the magic lies in the toolchains used in the build process. The person with the hardware in question maintains a good toolchain that targets their platform, and that ends up being most of the work in porting things. Porting windows ends up being not much different from porting Linux.
 
I'd like to get my 5 year old daughter on an Edubuntu box .. but so far with 13.10, can't get netflix to work with the instructions out there for netflix-desktop on an amd e-350..

jumping in with both feet though may seem like you're trying to drink from a fire hydrant at first, but I think that's the way to go with learning linux
 
Dogs said:
As many architectures != as much hardware. Sorry, but you're missing the big picture.
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"According to the report, Microsoft's operating systems have gone from 97 percent of all computing devices in 2000 -- back when desktop and laptop PCs were dominant -- to 20 percent expected in 2012 -- when PCs, tablets and smartphones are all part of the computing-device picture."

http://seattletimes.com/html/micros...chs_microsoft_os_has_gone_from_more_than.html

Simply the first link in a Google search.

And if you add the hundreds of millions of network devices, security cameras etc, the number is even higher.

Is that big picture enough?
 
ThreeDee said:
I'd like to get my 5 year old daughter on an Edubuntu box .. but so far with 13.10, can't get netflix to work with the instructions out there for netflix-desktop on an amd e-350..
Click to expand...

Isn't the Netflix for Linux thing just Silverlight running on a WINE layer? I can't imagine nobody has had success with using fake user agents to appear to Netflix as an android device to circumvent the Silverlight requirement.

longblock454 said:
"According to the report, Microsoft's operating systems have gone from 97 percent of all computing devices in 2000 -- back when desktop and laptop PCs were dominant -- to 20 percent expected in 2012 -- when PCs, tablets and smartphones are all part of the computing-device picture."

http://seattletimes.com/html/micros...chs_microsoft_os_has_gone_from_more_than.html

Simply the first link in a Google search.

And if you add the hundreds of millions of network devices, security cameras etc, the number is even higher.

Is that big picture enough?
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No, because all you've established with that is that Windows isn't the only OS in the world. Regardless, everybody should already know that Windows is extremely prevalent, and not just as a desktop OS. For the range of hardware Windows runs on, the level of stability provided is sufficiently good.
 
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