iiyama ProLite X4071UHSU-B1

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Kinawa, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. Kinawa

    Kinawa n00bie

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    http://www.iiyama.com/gb_en/products/prolite-x4071uhsu-b1/ 599euro

    Does anyone know anything about this new monitor and how it compares to the Philips 40"?
    This could be great with a software upgrade for freesync or even better (but unlikely) Gsync.
    I loved the Philips for static use but because of the lack of any sync & noticable stutter I returned it.
    My main hope is the fabled Samsung VA 100hz panel will be used soon in a Gsync/freesync monitor.
    No IPS glow & VA contrast please :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
  2. rik447

    rik447 n00bie

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    First reviews are starting to appear for it.

    Unfortunately it uses the same pwm backlight as philips. It was first advertised as flicker-free on the iiyama site, but they have now removed the text.

    forums.overclockers.co.uk has a longer thread about it.
     
  3. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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    Still not 100% sure whether its flicker free or not, they removed the notice from General Information but it still has the flicker free logo on the product page.
    At overclockers.co.uk, nobody seems to have a clue either.

    Now hardware.info tested it and they also tested the Philips 40'' so there is a direct comparison

    http://uk.hardware.info/comparisontable/products/329589-266281

    Response times - pretty much the same, same slow 0-255 rise time. The iiyama has more settings available with less overshoot on maximum. (21% vs. 66%)

    Input lag - identical

    Contrast ratio - iiyama: 5513:1 Philips: 5320:1

    Maximum brightness - iiyama: 331 nits Philips: 266 nits

    Default gamma - iiyama: 2.18 Philips: 2.23

    Native color temperature - iiyama: 9869 K (way too high) Philips: 7132 K

    Greyscale and Color deviation (deltaE) - are also way higher on the iiyama

    Other - iiyama weighs more, draws less power, comes with a remote and has 3 years warranty
     
  4. rik447

    rik447 n00bie

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  5. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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    thanks for confirming :)
    clearly using PWM, too bad
     
  6. Kinawa

    Kinawa n00bie

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    Indeed a pitty about the PWM...
    Strange that they do not add Freesync (or even better Gsync), this would sell like hot cakes.
     
  7. aadik

    aadik Limp Gawd

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    What PWM flickering is better faster flickering or slower flickering? I have seen some screens flickers slower than this iiyama.
     
  8. Quartz-1

    Quartz-1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    One purchaser on OCUK is reporting that the screen is very sensitive to touch and has groups of stuck pixels as a result.

    That's an instant no from me.
     
  9. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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    Here is a (dutch) review from hardware.info where I got the test results, which was written one week later:

    http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/6453/iiyama-prolite-x4071uhsu-review-4k-koopje

    Two things are especially worth mentioning:

    First it says it uses a different panel than the Philips, a 8bit+FRC Super MVA by Innolux. In the datasheet it says it is using 480hz PWM.
    This is strange because it has the same subpixel structure, non-square pixels, response times and similar artifacting issues as the TPV panel.
    In any case they seem to be closely related.

    The other thing I noticed is that the panel native gamut is -according to the review- basically the Dolby Vision gamut. This is rather wide, much wider than the BDM4065UC gamut
    This could explain the high DeltaE values and oversaturation you see in some videos.
    There is no sRGB emulation available so its quite unusable for serious design work
     
  10. illustrator

    illustrator n00bie

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    If the monitor truly is Dolby Vision ready, you'll need CalMAN Studio (software and hardware calibration) and an i1Display Pro to calibrate and profile to Dolby Vision gamut. It costs a cool $1595 without the colorimeter.
    CalMAN Studio Lite, Express, and ColorMatch all don't include Dolby Vision workflows.
    ColorMatch is free; but only checks the accuracy of a monitor, it doesn't create profiles. And it doesn't do Dolby Vision (last time I checked) so you can't confirm with it that this monitor has a Dolby Vision gamut.
    See: http://calman.spectracal.com/release-notes-calman-studio.html

    CalMAN partnered with Dolby and VIZIO to produce the first Dolby Vision ready consumer TV, starts at $6000: http://calman.spectracal.com/blog/v...eries-4k-tv-is-now-available-starting-at-6000

    I can't remember that iProfiler ever had the Dolby Vision gamut as a profiling target.

    Dolby Vision is also about lighter lights and darker darks (their words). Apparently they use laser backlighting to achieve that. In television sets. Higher light yield than LED (lighter lights) and can be completely turned off (darker darks).

    If you do not already have a CalMAN Studio license and an i1Display Pro it looks pretty expensive compared to the cost of the monitor. A Dell UP3216Q or LG 31MU97(Z) with i1Dispkay Pro costs less than CalMAN Studio.
     
  11. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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    Interesting info, thanks.
    Not sure it fully achieves the Dolby Vision gamut though, here is the review picture:
    http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products_xl/329589/10/iiyama-prolite-x4071uhsu-b1.jpg
    (the coloured dots are monitor gamut, the triangle is sRGB)
    Panel itself is specified at 86% NTSC gamut, probably W-LED combined with some phosphor trickery. (72% NTSC is usually default for sRGB)

    Here's another review by french digitalversus, they didn't mention anything with the gamut though:
    http://www.lesnumeriques.com/moniteur-ecran-lcd/iiyama-prolite-x4071uhsu-b1-p30243/test.html
     
  12. illustrator

    illustrator n00bie

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    There are also other ways to check Dolby Vision coverage.

    If a TV/monitor is Dolby Vision ready, all it takes is a streaming service like Netflix to stream a Dolby Vision encoded movie/trailer. The signal will already be prepared for the Dolby Vision ready TV/monitor.
    NVidia's Shield TV Box is certified for 4K streaming by Netflix so that could be a candidate.
    (4K is the minimum resolution required for Dolby Vision.)

    Walmart is already offering Dolby Vision encoded content : http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/behind-screen/warner-bros-dolby-vision-titles-840978

    I don't know exactly what qualifies to make a device Dolby Ready. All I know is that the requirements are less stringent than the requirements for a Blu-Ray player.

    When they become available, Blu-Ray players (with Dolby Vision support) and Dolby Vision encoded discs of course could also be used. Warner Bros commuted to Dolby Vision for a few movies.

    In September last year Adobe added ICC profiles for Dolby Vision to After Effects 2015.
    You can read it under "additional ICC profiles for color management" : "HDR profiles using the SMPTE 2084 PQ EOTF (Dolby Vision)" at the Adobe After Effects blog http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects...upcoming-update-to-after-effects-cc-2015.html

    But to be honest I can't believe that a company like Dolby, with a bad reputation when it comes to license fees, would have such low license fees that the tech can be implemented fully in such an affordable monitor. Especially at these initial stages.

    I've read the review that you linked (through Google translate) and it is indeed strange that they didn't mention/notice the Dolby Vision gamut.
    Maybe there are 2 (or more) versions of this monitor. Who knows?

    If anyone has the capabilities and time to roll their own ICC profile for Dolby Vision there are some tools listed at the ICC website. That page also links to some open source and free tools : http://www.color.org/profilingtools.xalter
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  13. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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    Wait, is Dolby Vision the same as Rec.2020?
    If so, the screen does not come close to covering it (like all TVs right now).
    It also does not cover all of DCI-P3.
    None of those gamuts are achievable with W-LED and enhanced phosphors, only using QDEF or a different backlight system
     
  14. HiCZoK

    HiCZoK Gawd

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    40 inches? Wouldn't va gamma shift kill the experience for desk usage ?
     
  15. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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    Yes, the corners darken and desaturate noticeably when sitting too close/at monitor distances.
     
  16. illustrator

    illustrator n00bie

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    Exactly what I mean. It's highly unlikely. I don't know how the reviewer from the Dutch website came to his conclusion. That's why I started my first post with doubt.
    It would be interesting though to know how he tested/measured the monitor's accuracy.
    We'll never know I guess.

    But not even the VIZIO reference TV's can display Rec.2020. Although they are pretty close.
    Up to 800 cd/m2 is required for Dolby Vision, and its gamut is somewhere between DCI/P3 and Rec.2020.
    The problem is not even with the panel. That might actually be Dolby Vision capable. The backend to make it Dolby Ready (up to 800 cd/m2) is most likely lacking. The VIZIO TV's have that backend and use it through an App to stream Netflix 4K Dolby Vision content.

    Looks like prices are going to come down for 4K Dolby Vision HDR TV's though. From last week:
    "Chinese TV makers showcase OLED TVs with 4K, HDR & Dolby Vision"
    http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1453208271
     
  17. illustrator

    illustrator n00bie

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    The French review that was linked mentions that the darkening at the edges disappears from 80 cm distance. The reviewer in the German review video from YouTube, also explains with a joke that the monitor does suffer from darkening at the edges, and that it also does not suffer from darkening edges. He clarifies by saying approximately the same As the French reviewer. "If you get close enough to a 23" monitor (with your nose almost against it, and you can still see) there will also be dark edges. The same happens with the 40" monitor. Only the close and far distances are of course longer than with the 23"."
    OK it's new. But you're a human being. You can adjust. If you want.
    All new stuff takes getting used to.
    Someone wearing glasses for the first time, will see bulging stair steps the first few days. I've never heard of someone sending back their glasses because of it, or staying upstairs or downstairs because they couldn't adjust.
     
  18. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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    Reviewer tested with X-Rite i1 Pro and CalMAN.
    There is also an image of monitor gamut vs. "Dolby Vision" triangle and it complies quite well:
    http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products_xl/329589/8/iiyama-prolite-x4071uhsu-b1.jpg
    I first thought Dolby Vision is something between Rec.709 and DCI-P3, but obviously it's not.
    So the question remains which gamut the triangle in the picture is actually supposed to represent?

    The 7000£ flagship OLED by Panasonic cannot cover more than 67% Rec.2020 and peak brightness is 431cd/m².
    At the moment the flagship LED-LCD have an advantage over OLED in terms of gamut and peak brightness, but none fully comply to the standard yet. (currently up to 75-80% Rec.2020 I believe and 700-1000cd/m²)
     
  19. illustrator

    illustrator n00bie

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    Yes, that's what I posted. Between DCI/P3 and Rec.2020. Not even the VIZIO reference can do Rec.2020. There are no available TV's or monitors which can cover the Rec.2020 gamut for 100%. Maybe in a test lab. But they will not let us in.
     
  20. illustrator

    illustrator n00bie

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    Yesterday, I contacted Iiyama International here in The Netherlands.
    To ask about the panel's colour space and brightness.
    My request was forwarded to their tech department.

    Today the technician confirmed that the panel of the X4071UHSU-B1 indeed covers the Dolby Vision gamut (Rec.2020).
    But because the backend of the panel is not able to reach the required brightness of the Dolby Vision spec, they can't claim Dolby Vision.
    Attainable Dolby Vision brightness today is 800 - 4,000cd/m2. With plans for up to 10,000cd/m2 in the future.

    He also added that the monitor was not aimed at the desktop, but at the PID market and the requirements specific to that market. (PID Public Iinformation Display.)

    I could upload a screenshot of the email response later when there is a need for it.
    But I first need to anonymise it and it's also in Dutch.

    Argyll CMS (open source) is capable of calibrating and profiling to Rec.2020 (a.k.a. Dolby Vision gamut) without HDR. The X4071UHSU-B1 fits like a glove.
     
  21. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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    Some PIDs already reach over 2500-5000cd/m² brightness, sometimes a necessity due to the environments they are used in.
    e.g. http://www.panelook.com/LTI460HZ01_Samsung_46_LCM_overview_21839.html
    But I don't want to fathom the resulting black levels at those brightnesses. (better to call them grey levels then...)

    Still, despite what the technician says, the panel cannot be able to cover the huge Rec.2020 colourspace, because it is limited by the WLED-type backlight.
    Only the Blue chromaticity primary comes close to Rec.2020. The Reds and Greens, Magenta and Cyan are only close to DCI-P3. Significant Yellow and Orange undercoverage of both gamuts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  22. illustrator

    illustrator n00bie

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    About the backlight:
    I do not know what type of backlight is in use with this monitor. It is not mentioned on the product information page. It is not mentioned in the monitor's manual. And it is also not mentioned in the flat panel's spec sheet.
    This is also the case for the gamut. No gamut is mentioned.

    About the high deviations/deltas:
    The CIE diagrams in the review show a measurement/read of the monitor in uncalibrated+un profiled state. Colours were not corrected, so no ICC/ICM profile was created and loaded. They don't do that when they review monitors because most people do not calibrate their monitors, and use them as is or with only minor changes in the monitor's OSD. Read the third page of each of their monitor reviews where they explain this.
    It's up to the reader to make assumptions if a calibration and profiling will be successful and worth their while.

    I agree that under saturation is impossible to calibrate and it might even vary in severity from panel to panel.
    But like I already posted before, I do not know how the reviewer has measured/tested. And I didn't mean which hardware and software.
    He didn't tell us how he calibrated the monitor before his measurement/read.
    But this is important to know.

    Profiling (calibration) is a two step process:
    1. The calibration.
      To bring the monitor in a known state. By going into the OSD, and making adjustments, to gamma, brightness, R, G, and B mixer, contrast, etc.
    2. The profiling.
      To correct the actual colours of the known state to your target colours/patches. By using a colorimeter/spectrophotometer, etc and profiling software to display your target colours/patches and let the graphics card guess from its LUT (software; ICC/ICM profile managed by OS or application) or let the monitor pick from its LUT (hardware; stored in a user slot of the monitor's LUT).

    The reviewer did not mention the calibration settings he made in step 1.
    So do you know what you are looking at when you see the results of his measurement/read?

    I can see that he used 100cd/m2 as peak brightness. sRGB has a peak brightness of 80, but often 100 is used. AdobeRGB has a peak brightness of 160.
    Add to that, that the Rec.2020 recommendation does not specify a peak brightness.
    He could have gone as high with the peak brightness (theoretically) as the monitor's maximum brightness and still be within the Rec.2020 spec. And most likely had a better coverage reading with lower deltas. Not complete coverage though. Remember this is a *VA panel. You can up the brightness quite high before black becomes grey.
    Like I said ArgyllCMS can calibrate+profile to Rec.2020 without HDR.
    The 350cd/m2 would be twice that of AdobeRGB. Not sure how much of Rec.2020 this would cover though. Depends on the panel how high brightness can be cranked up.

    If you go over the peak brightness (of the white point) clipping occurs. Colours slowly start to look washed out or turn completely white (clipping; hitting the peak brightness limitation). Blacks will slowly become grey when going over the peak brightness.
    That's why see people work in a dimly lit or dark room with a low brightness setting (with current tech).

    About the high brightness or HDR:
    The high brightness requirement (up to 10,000 nits) is not part of the Rec.2020 recommendation.
    Rec.2020 has no peak brightness (of its white point) like for example Rec.709/sRGB and AdobeRGB.
    Also, RGB laser diodes are not required anymore to achieve Rec.2020 coverage as thought previously: http://news.3m.com/press-release/product-and-brand/3m-announces-rec-2020-readiness-display-week-2015

    The high brightness requirement is part of Dolby Vision HDR. More specifically the HDR portion. Because Dolby Vision HDR is additive (on top of UHDTV/Rec.2020 and on top of HDTV/Rec.709). It adds about 15 - 20% overhead for its metadata.

    Here is the email message:

    [​IMG]
    .
    .
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  23. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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    Backlight is indeed not mentioned in the data sheet, if its actually V400DJ1-KS5.
    It only says that it's LED ofc. and that panel has High color saturation : NTSC 88%
    On panelook, they list 86% NTSC and WLED backlight.
    Even 88% NTSC is not enough. It might "be able to handle the BT.2020 color ‘representation’" but like you said deltas can be brought down but undercoverage is hard to fix.

    Maybe you can ask the reviewer what settings he used for step 1, would be interesting to know. All I see on the pages are the measurements in uncalibrated and unprofiled state

    The link talks about the NanoSys QDEF I namedropped last page.
    WLED or BLED in combination with QDEF and related technologies are going to be a very functional and cost-effective solution to implement higher gamuts and also improve peak brightness in panels and is already being used in some of last years Televisions.
    In practice though, they have not yet reached enough Rec.2020 coverage.
     
  24. illustrator

    illustrator n00bie

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    I already asked the reviewer.
    Not through the comments to the review. But next to his name at the top of each page is a tiny envelope icon. Through which you can contact him directly to report typos and errors in the review. I reported the missing settings as an error. But his response was that they did not have the settings and the monitor anymore. So game over.

    3M had 93.7% coverage of Rec.2020 with a 31" LCD demo monitor for the desktop. But that was June 2nd last year, according to the date of the news release. That's amazing for current tech. I wonder where they are at now, 8 months later.

    Dolby Vision HDR didn't reach full Rec.2020 with their reference telly's by the end of last year.
    But even a peak brightness of just 300 or 600 nits would already be an amazing improvement. Just read their white paper (if you haven't already) when you have the time.
    Nice examples in their to to explain what happens.

    I wonder which HDR will eventually win Dolby's, Samsung's, Panasonic's, ...

    Going to watch FA Cup football now.
     
  25. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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  26. illustrator

    illustrator n00bie

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    100% sRGB and 88% AdobeRGB. That's not too shabby. Good find.
    I hope that it's true. Wish they had shared the settings they made to the monitor though. For both sRGB and AdobeRGB.
    Jeez this monitor, apart from the high-frequency PWM and lacking ergonomics, could be really nice to have at that coverage.

    BTW, if you would mount this on an arm or stand with pivot capability I assume that automatic rotation between landscape and portrait won't happen.
    Is there any software to detect pivoting included?
     
  27. illustrator

    illustrator n00bie

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    .
    I just blasted a request for the monitor settings (sRGB and AdobeRGB) through their contact form.
    .
     
  28. ddx88

    ddx88 n00bie

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    Hi, is it matte or glossy display?
     
  29. SirDemian

    SirDemian n00bie

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    Hi all,
    first of all many compliments for your technical skills!
    I would to ask you an advice, because I would to buy it, but I'm not sure if can be the best for me.
    I would to use it in replace of my old TV (I wouldn't buy a TV) :
    - primary use will be films and TV series (not all HD contents)
    - secondary use will be TV shows from USB TV Tuner
    - finally, few gaming session whit pc and PS3

    Considering that and also that I'm not able to notice a lot of the things that you experts have mentioned, you can advice to buy it?

    Thank you so much
    Regards
     
  30. BubbleBob

    BubbleBob n00bie

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    Hi, I tried to find out if this monitor has non-square pixels or not (similar to Philips BDM4065 I think).

    Only mention about this seems to be by igluk here, or my google-fu is not good enough, and I've no idea how to verify this.

    Anyone have info about this?

    Still looking for proper 40"+ display... after two Philips BDM4350...

    I know this one has PWM dimming but my eyes get bit too much eye strain when looking at small text with 27" and 34" ultra-wides... and there seems to be very few alternatives to Philips.
     
  31. igluk

    igluk Gawd

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    I believe it has the same non-square pixels, but not 100% sure.
    There is a video of the LE4041 here at ~11:20 it shows the subpixels (this is the same panel as the X4071).
    BDM4065 subpix look very similar.
    Both are also BGR layout.
    PWM freq. is supposedly higher at 480hz, and it has an unusually high colour temp/blue tint out of the box. (should be possible to mostly fix this with osd settings)

    Sorry man, it's probably a bit late for the answer, but for TV use the contrast is very high, low (1%) haze semi-glossy coating and it has a remote, which is good.
    I don't know whether it supports judder free playback or 24hz though.
    And due to the wider gamut colours will be slightly over-saturated.

    Edit:
    Here is another recent german review
    Iiyama Prolite X4071UHSU-B1 im Test: Ultra-HD-Spielspaß auf 40 Zoll?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
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  32. Otaku+

    Otaku+ n00bie

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    [​IMG]

    Greetings!

    I purchased two of these monitors last week and recorded a few measurements which I hope will be of help to prospective buyers.

    Factory white point, luminance and ΔE:

    [​IMG]

    The panel can be calibrated to 6,800K or 6,500K with a luminance penalty of 16% and 20% respectively. Despite its high white point, it is reasonably accurate out of the box.

    [​IMG]

    The backlight driver uses PWM at a constant 160Hz throughout the adjustment range. With the brightness set below 50%, I would not wish to sit in front of it for extended periods but above 60%, the duty cycle is high enough that it is not noticeable. I run all of my monitors at full brightness (which is DC), so this is not a problem for me.

    [​IMG]

    Subjectively, it is a lovely monitor and one of the brightest available at this price point.
     
    igluk likes this.
  33. Tuga

    Tuga n00bie

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    I'm curious about this monitor. I would mostly use it for increased real estate in lightroom, so editing photographs. Is it really 100% sRGB after it has been calibrated with calibration device? I feel there really isn't alternative to this, as most monitors are IPS (because that's what TVs use/good for TV, not because it's better for coputer use).

    Since it's large, there's no need for scaling, which could be tremendously good feature for someone who uses older software too (which don't scale well?)
     
  34. Otaku+

    Otaku+ n00bie

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    Yes, it covers 100% of the sRGB color space after calibration. It is actually a relatively wide gamut panel, as it covers about 90% of Adobe RGB.