Ignore Piracy Notices and Lose Control of your Thermostat

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by DooKey, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. DooKey

    DooKey [H]ard DCOTM x4

    Messages:
    7,822
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Armstrong Zoom Internet is doing like most ISPs and sending out piracy notices to suspected pirates on their network. These notices usually warn the customer to stop the offending activity or face some sort of sanction. Most of the time this is downgraded service or termination of service. However, Armstrong is adding something interesting to their warning letter and telling customers that they may lose access to remotely controlled devices in their home like security monitoring and remote control of thermostats. Once this happens the only way a customer gets full access again is to sign an agreement to stop the activity and paying a fee. Interesting tactic they are using. I wonder if they would be liable for damage if someone had their pipes freeze up and burst because of this? Click the pic to see the letter.

    “Please be advised that this may affect other services which you may have connected to your internet service, such as the ability to control your thermostat remotely or video monitoring services.”
     
  2. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,232
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Use a dynamic dns service. Next.

    Edit did not read article.

    Derped on that one
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  3. CaptNumbNutz

    CaptNumbNutz [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    19,360
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2007
    I believe they are specifically referring to IoT devices like the NEST thermostats. AFAIK, there isn't a single air conditioning or heating system made that requires an internet connection. The remote thermostats are always a tacked on addition being a device that can simply trigger a relay to turn on the furnace or A/C.

    So they can cut off your internet, but a $10 thermostat from your local Wal-Mart, a screwdriver, and 10 minutes of time will get it going again.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  4. ComputerBox34

    ComputerBox34 Right in the Box

    Messages:
    10,870
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Huh? All this is saying is that if they cut your internet, you will lose access to IOT devices you have in your home....no shit.
     
    dvsman, Armenius, maclem8223 and 10 others like this.
  5. BSmith

    BSmith [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,324
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Why would anyone with a brain,....wait,.....belay that. I answered my own question.
     
  6. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

    Messages:
    13,668
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2007
    so yeah, no internet, I can't remotely turn on my heater.. weeeeeee

    I think the big problem is if people start thinking this means they will block your access to your shit, hell that was my first thought when I just skimmed the headline.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  7. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Gawd

    Messages:
    923
    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    For the people who don't know how IoT devices work.
     
  8. TwiceOver

    TwiceOver 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,401
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Even if what they were wanting to do was possible, local governments would be suing them into extinction. Our local utilities can't turn off active service even for non-payment, during the winter months.
     
  9. gxp500

    gxp500 Gawd

    Messages:
    867
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2015
    This is what happens without net neutrality...
     
  10. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

    Messages:
    28,578
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    The mention of a fee just proves this is an extortion tactic, plain and simple.
     
    nightfly, Armenius, Rebel44 and 6 others like this.
  11. jardows

    jardows [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,478
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2015
    Yet another example of why IoT is a bad thing.
     
    PaulP, Armenius, oASCeNSIONo and 2 others like this.
  12. GlowingGhoul

    GlowingGhoul Whines about Whiners

    Messages:
    445
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    LOL, what a stupid article. Yeah, if your internet access is cut off you'll lose access to devices controlled via the internet.

    Wow, what a surprise. Guess what, you'll also lose access to HardOCP too.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  13. necrosis

    necrosis Gawd

    Messages:
    758
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    No you dolt. This is what happens when you don't pay for services you request. This has nothing to do with net neutrality.
     
  14. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

    Messages:
    28,578
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    True, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of abuse and extortion. If you read that letter further, it says you may just get bumped down to the lowest service speed level. Any bets on if your bill gets bumped down as well?

    I get the repeated abuse = disconnect thing. But then saying you can call them up, sign a paper and, oh yeah, pay them a "fee" to flip the switch back on just makes it sound like a bunch of bullshit. If they wanted to prevent this behavior they would cut you off for good.
     
    Armenius, BloodyIron and Revdarian like this.
  15. jnemesh

    jnemesh [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,084
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Better idea, quit buying "IoT" devices that are useless when the internet is down...or that brick your furnace after a firmware update!
     
  16. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,002
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Lack of imagination on your part. You'll see. We have internet providers that charge you extra if you want remote access. (eg exposed ip address) We never had net neutrality to begin with here in central europe. There are also providers who charge you extra if you want to access and / or unlimited access to youtube, facebook, etc. Or throttle specific services, like streaming, or whatever they feel like they want you to pay extra for.

    You don't even know what a great thing you had going with net neutrality and you gave it up willingly, some even cheered for it, Fucking hell.
     
    BloodyIron, John721 and Spidey329 like this.
  17. Dead Parrot

    Dead Parrot 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,385
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    So an ISP is admitting that they monitor customer's electronic communications and are now threatening to interfere with said communications if the customers don't modify their usage based on a third party complaint? Sounds like multiple violations of wiretapping laws and computer crimes statutes. Or possibly blackmail. So many choices.
     
  18. viper1152012

    viper1152012 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,025
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
  19. GlowingGhoul

    GlowingGhoul Whines about Whiners

    Messages:
    445
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    The internet developed quite a bit with existing anti-monopoly regulations as it was. I don't recognize this terrible, awful, primitive and unfree internet we supposedly had prior to 2016.

    What Net Neutrality DID do however, was establish a precedent of regulating the internet via an unelected body. A precedent that would have laid the groundwork for government defining politically inconvenient sites as subject to regulation, like political advertisements on television.

    The Democrats had full control of Congress and the presidency for years and did not propose a Net Neutrality law during that time. Why? Because that would not have handed to FCC the undemocratic power they wanted them to have.

    Even though you're likely young, living in Central Europe I would have thought enough around you would have been well aware of what it was like having a "progressive" communist regime controlling the flow of information.
     
    cyclone3d and PaulP like this.
  20. GlowingGhoul

    GlowingGhoul Whines about Whiners

    Messages:
    445
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    The reason for the disclaimer is simple. When your electric supplier sends out a warning of impending disconnection, they include warning abouts heating, security, and medical systems ceasing to function. It's about avoiding lawsuits from people who say they didn't know they wouldn't be able to monitor their security or heating systems when their internet access was cut off. Reading waaaay to much into this.
     
    Armenius and CaptNumbNutz like this.
  21. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,439
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008

    Regardless, wouldn't just waiting till you get home solve the issue. I mean once your on your own internal network ....

    EDITED: Actually, thinking about my comment, yea no. I mean yes, you could just wait until you get home, but WTF right?

    If someone needs to be cut off, then cut them all the way off, don't try and hold their shit for ransom while you still want your customer's money.

    I think it's called extortion.

    If someone is doing something that they shouldn't be doing, then address that issue directly and don't fuck around doing stupid shit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
    Armenius likes this.
  22. THRESHIN

    THRESHIN 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,929
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2002
    Maybe this isn't the same for the nest (I have the ecobee) but you could simply disconnect the thermostat from your Wi-Fi and still use it as normal....I personally don't use the remote access very often. Maybe I'm getting too old to see the problem.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  23. chameleoneel

    chameleoneel 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,798
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Doesn't sound legal to me.

    Write it into new contracts/new service deals. But existing customers should be fine. Although in this day, a class action lawsuit would have to be filed, to make the company back off existing customers.
     
  24. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,439
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    A local ISP, I think all you need to do is convince them that what is best is for them to stick to what they are required to do under the law and refrain from becoming inventive and punitive.

    Bad for business.

    And you don't need a class action to go after a small ISP. Just file your complaint with the FTC, they crush little guys all the time. Who's going to try and go up against the Federal Government over that bullshit anyway?
     
  25. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,677
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Gave it up willingly? Something like 90% opposed the rollback. Millions took action. Our government told us to fuck off in form letters, via Twitter, and non-funny YouTube videos.

    We didn't give it up, it was stolen, in broad daylight without a care in the world.

    Short of an armed insurrection, what else were we supposed to do?
     
  26. viscountalpha

    viscountalpha 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,548
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    All the more reason to avoid IOT in the first place.
     
    Armenius, oASCeNSIONo and John721 like this.
  27. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,371
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004
    This is what happens when you vote for Democrats.

    My statement makes just as much sense since this has nothing to do with net neutrality.
     
    PaulP and Armenius like this.
  28. ChoGGi

    ChoGGi [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,430
    Joined:
    May 7, 2005
    Ignore piracy notices and get cut off from the net...This is news? Sounds more like CYA from the ISP.

    Edit:
    FTFA: Armstrong will remove you from your current service level and place you at the lowest service level.
    So your shitty IoT devices will still work then?
     
    Armenius likes this.
  29. BloodyIron

    BloodyIron 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,440
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    This bullshit hasn't worked for over 20 years, what the fuck makes them think it'll work now?
     
  30. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,002
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    I doubt 90% even knew what it was about, let alone oppose it. I don't know on this forum it kind of seemed 50-50 between those who were for and against it.
     
    lcpiper, PaulP and Armenius like this.
  31. katanaD

    katanaD [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,987
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    i have had a nest since they came out. works just the same. i can get up and walk over to it, and turn it on/off etc right there at the wall.

    also, even if i was away for some time and lost remote control, the unit is set to automatically heat when the house gets down to 50, or cool if it gets to 100 without ANY interaction for safety reasons
     
  32. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,439
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Wait, 90% in polls, 90% in reality don't even give a damn.

    Millions took what action? Did they call/email their congressman or try to use that comment site? The only thing I saw was something like 1.x million comments, out of 325 million in the US, that's not a groundswell of dissent.

    People like to think that there was a cry from far and wide, that the population rose up and was told to shut up, and that isn't true at all my friend, not at all.

    And I didn't like Pai's video either but it is what it is.
     
  33. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,439
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    No, this is what happens because of the DMCA.

    Although, because the Internet is no longer Title II, ISPs are no longer protected from the FTC as common carriers, so if your ISP fucks you and it's not in writing, then you can file a complaint with the FTC and if it's righteous, the FTC might sue the fuckers and you might even get more money than any class-action would get you.
     
  34. BSmith

    BSmith [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,324
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Or the FTC can just ignore you. Filing a complaint does not guarantee anything.