If you preordered a PS4 after August 5th, you are not guaranteed a PS4 on launch day.

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zamardii

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Just saw some people asking about preorders, and thought some of you might want to know this. I preordered on July 27th on Amazon, so hopefully i'll be good.

"Yesterday, Sony revealed that over one million pre-orders have been placed for its next-gen console, the PS4. It's a situation Sony UK managing director Fergal Gara told OPM is "kind of a good problem to have, but it is a problem and we're trying to manage that as responsibly as we possibly can."

Gara added the pre-order numbers are "higher than we've ever seen in 20 years in this business." It's this demand that led Sony to tell its retail partners that pre-orders after August 5 would not be guaranteed a console on launch day. Gara elaborated to OPM that Sony is "chasing demand" at this point."

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/08/22/sony-handling-ps4-pre-orders-as-responsibly-as-we-can/
 
Sweet I ordered on July 26th so Im good. This might be good news for the resellers.
 
SMH... I think they do it intentionally. Why wouldn't you make a few million its coming out holiday season... Maybe sony know that its not a really big difference graphically from ps3 to ps4 and figured people like me would say F dat...
 
Glad I got mine June 12th! Can't say I'm surprised though I didn't expect them to full fill all those pre orders.
 
kanecvl said:
SMH... I think they do it intentionally. Why wouldn't you make a few million its coming out holiday season... Maybe sony know that its not a really big difference graphically from ps3 to ps4 and figured people like me would say F dat...
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You act like they can snap their fingers and make more instantly. It's not like they started production on them last year, they probably only started producing retail units a few months ago if that even. Not to mention, this is the largest pre-order they have ever seen. There is no way they could have planned for this and you do not want to overproduce units.
 
Derangel said:
You act like they can snap their fingers and make more instantly. It's not like they started production on them last year, they probably only started producing retail units a few months ago if that even. Not to mention, this is the largest pre-order they have ever seen. There is no way they could have planned for this and you do not want to overproduce units.
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So what you are telling me is that you don't think they can staff enough people to produce a sufficient amount to avoid this. I mean this is Sony PlayStation not Nintendo wii, ps vita or something like that. If they make to many no big deal, they have 10 years to sell'em. None of the parts are limited production so they holding themselves back if anything.
 
kanecvl said:
So what you are telling me is that you don't think they can staff enough people to produce a sufficient amount to avoid this. I mean this is Sony PlayStation not Nintendo wii, ps vita or something like that. If they make to many no big deal, they have 10 years to sell'em. None of the parts are limited production so they holding themselves back if anything.
Click to expand...

So you are suggesting that Sony spend millions more to build new facilities and hire new staff for the sole purpose of meeting a launch demand they would have had no bloody idea would be so high and then totally ignore basic business practices? Having a huge amount of unsold inventory is terrible. Sony doesn't get paid for unsold inventory, they only get money for the consoles when retailers buy them. Systems sitting in warehouses are costing them money. Having a ton of unsold inventory is almost always a bad thing for a business. Microsoft provides a great recent example: The Surface RT. Or for a good game related example: THQ and UDraw. Both products were massively overproduced and had huge negative effects on their companies (a few billion dollar write-off for Microsoft and the end of the company for THQ). Sony isn't exactly in a financially stable situation, they can't afford big mistakes.
 
kanecvl said:
So what you are telling me is that you don't think they can staff enough people to produce a sufficient amount to avoid this. I mean this is Sony PlayStation not Nintendo wii, ps vita or something like that. If they make to many no big deal, they have 10 years to sell'em. None of the parts are limited production so they holding themselves back if anything.
Click to expand...

You are posting suggestions for a multi-million dollar company on a forum for a reason if you think they could just "hire more people" to produce something that a machine does. :rolleyes:
 
Got my email confirmation from Amazon. Nov 15th.

@ the make more comment.

They're producing them as fast as they can. Adding more assembly lines/labor for a short term burst in demand would be a bad business move as you would be left with a lot of infrastructure investment that would rot when demand slowed down.
 
Derangel said:
So you are suggesting that Sony spend millions more to build new facilities and hire new staff for the sole purpose of meeting a launch demand they would have had no bloody idea would be so high and then totally ignore basic business practices? Having a huge amount of unsold inventory is terrible. Sony doesn't get paid for unsold inventory, they only get money for the consoles when retailers buy them. Systems sitting in warehouses are costing them money. Having a ton of unsold inventory is almost always a bad thing for a business. Microsoft provides a great recent example: The Surface RT. Or for a good game related example: THQ and UDraw. Both products were massively overproduced and had huge negative effects on their companies (a few billion dollar write-off for Microsoft and the end of the company for THQ). Sony isn't exactly in a financially stable situation, they can't afford big mistakes.
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I do understand all that. Hiring more staff wouldn't hurt, they not paying much to have it built. It's a double edged sword though cause if you don't keep up with demand you lose as well. If they're not financially stable though I can certainly understand why they would be so cautious.
 
Preordered June 11th and already got a confirm that my console is going to arrive on 11/15/2013 :)

Sony probably only looked at the preorder numbers around mid/end of July then made a projection about how many consoles they'd need to build given the preorder rate at the time. At some point you just can't change how many your facilities can build if demand suddenly is higher than expected. Yeah it's easy to say just build more facilities and hire more people, but it doesn't work that way. Assuming they can find and equip some new facilities, hiring people requires time to train them on how to properly build the machines. Just look at the XB360 RROD problem, IIRC that was a direct result of using a different kind of solder at the build facilities than what they made the prototype boxes with. A small error cost them billions to fix after the fact and a loss of consumer good will.
 
LurkerLito said:
Preordered June 11th and already got a confirm that my console is going to arrive on 11/15/2013 :)

Sony probably only looked at the preorder numbers around mid/end of July then made a projection about how many consoles they'd need to build given the preorder rate at the time. At some point you just can't change how many your facilities can build if demand suddenly is higher than expected. Yeah it's easy to say just build more facilities and hire more people, but it doesn't work that way. Assuming they can find and equip some new facilities, hiring people requires time to train them on how to properly build the machines. Just look at the XB360 RROD problem, IIRC that was a direct result of using a different kind of solder at the build facilities than what they made the prototype boxes with. A small error cost them billions to fix after the fact and a loss of consumer good will.
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True
 
sears.com says on or very near launch date.

also 10% cash back from discover...

I think i'll get one.
 
unless i get a new ratchet and clank, I am sitting out the PS4 for a while. Xbox one is definately a no go this time around due to MS wanting to nickel and dime people to death... I didn't get a PS3 until it was remade into the slim model.
 
DF-1 said:
sears.com says on or very near launch date.

also 10% cash back from discover...

I think i'll get one.
Click to expand...

Tempting... but how does that work if they don't charge till it ships?

Is 10% CB the same as it always is for Sears, or is that a temporary promo?
 
The people who pre-ordered after the date are still going to get their consoles earlier than most people. Not a lot that can be done about it, really.
 
june 10th launch system and a knack bundle when they became available so 2 preordered from Amazon, my nephews are going to have a good Christmas because the xbox 1 I pre ordered will go to them too as well as the second PS4. could prob ebay 1 and get enough to pay fror the Xbone, but that's not my thing.
 
kanecvl said:
So what you are telling me is that you don't think they can staff enough people to produce a sufficient amount to avoid this. I mean this is Sony PlayStation not Nintendo wii, ps vita or something like that. If they make to many no big deal, they have 10 years to sell'em. None of the parts are limited production so they holding themselves back if anything.
Click to expand...

It is a big deal if they do make to many. Sony also has take in manufacturing costs of the console. Couple other factors affect that production. gas prices affect shipping costs. sometimes materials to make the products spike from week to week. Reduction of the cost to manufacture the product through process refinement, redesigns of the console, There is more than just simply hiring people to make something. Right now is the most expensive the console is going to cost to make, and making to many overall hurts their bottom line. ex: if sony found a way of reducing the manufacturing costs by $50. They produce 10k extra before that, thats $500k lost.
 
kanecvl said:
SMH... I think they do it intentionally. Why wouldn't you make a few million its coming out holiday season... Maybe sony know that its not a really big difference graphically from ps3 to ps4 and figured people like me would say F dat...
Click to expand...

More like they didn't anticipate how bad Microsoft would put their foot in it, how many people would switch their preorders to PS4 and stay there even after MS tried to say sorry and reverse policies. That's what has them in a tough spot now
 
Zohar78 said:
It is a big deal if they do make to many. Sony also has take in manufacturing costs of the console. Couple other factors affect that production. gas prices affect shipping costs. sometimes materials to make the products spike from week to week. Reduction of the cost to manufacture the product through process refinement, redesigns of the console, There is more than just simply hiring people to make something. Right now is the most expensive the console is going to cost to make, and making to many overall hurts their bottom line. ex: if sony found a way of reducing the manufacturing costs by $50. They produce 10k extra before that, thats $500k lost.
Click to expand...

Out of all that they only thing that will be considered a loss from overproduction is storage/warehouse. You are talking about expenses and market fluctuations... It will sell for 400 on launch and for many years into the future. If they produce to many it will also sit in a warehouse until walmart/bestbuy etc. orders more. Technically its not a loss unless they don't sell it for what they invested in it... I think they should be beefing up the man hours and doing everything they can to meet the demand. I'd be pissed if I pre-ordered and then find out later that I won't get it on launch. And you know stores will have some that are not pre-order, but I'm stuck waiting for my pre-order or lose my deposit (at some stores)... Not cool.
 
The production capacity is likely constrained by AMD and DDR5 manufacturers.

You can't always just throw money at problems and increase production.
 
ocellaris said:
The production capacity is likely constrained by AMD and DDR5 manufacturers.

You can't always just throw money at problems and increase production.
Click to expand...

This!

It's not as simple as Sony starting up few more assembly lines and throwing extra units together. Sony isn't manufacturing many of the key components of the system. It does them no good to ramp up production at their facilities if they don't have GPU's and CPU's to put in the things. They would have to increase their own resources as well as AMD's in order to significantly increase production. And then, as soon as demand is met and sales slow, they just shut all that down? There becomes a point where the money required to make additional units would cost more money than it would net in increased revenue. It's pretty safe to assume they are already going to be losing money with each console sold. How large of a number they can afford to lose is based on how much software they estimate the average owner will buy. If they go to far into the red on each system sold, they won't be able to sell enough games to profit, and then it's all pointless anyway.
 
There is also a essential piece you all are not considering. They can't rightfully sell ALL the units as preorders. I am sure there are plenty of retailers not accepting preorders, not to mention that retailers need some for their shelves to bring people into their stores.

You know there'll be people waiting in front of the store a good 12 hours before the store opens...

I can't wait to hear the stories the day after launch of who got robbed and/or shot. Unless the hype isn't as big as the PS3... Maybe it's just me, but I feel like this generation isn't anywhere near as big of a deal as the PS3's launch was.
 
zamardii said:
There is also a essential piece you all are not considering. They can't rightfully sell ALL the units as preorders. I am sure there are plenty of retailers not accepting preorders, not to mention that retailers need some for their shelves to bring people into their stores.

You know there'll be people waiting in front of the store a good 12 hours before the store opens...

I can't wait to hear the stories the day after launch of who got robbed and/or shot. Unless the hype isn't as big as the PS3... Maybe it's just me, but I feel like this generation isn't anywhere near as big of a deal as the PS3's launch was.
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The PS2 had even more hype around it than the PS3 did.
 
I'm considering canceling my BB pre order and stick with the Amaon pre order instead. I will wait and see what best buy does for the midnight launch once we get closer.
 
Viper87227 said:
This!

It's not as simple as Sony starting up few more assembly lines and throwing extra units together. Sony isn't manufacturing many of the key components of the system. It does them no good to ramp up production at their facilities if they don't have GPU's and CPU's to put in the things. They would have to increase their own resources as well as AMD's in order to significantly increase production. And then, as soon as demand is met and sales slow, they just shut all that down? There becomes a point where the money required to make additional units would cost more money than it would net in increased revenue. It's pretty safe to assume they are already going to be losing money with each console sold. How large of a number they can afford to lose is based on how much software they estimate the average owner will buy. If they go to far into the red on each system sold, they won't be able to sell enough games to profit, and then it's all pointless anyway.
Click to expand...

Finally some sense being spoken here. This isn't something new, batches of Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3 were all delayed at times because of shortages in components. Also launch dates for many companies have been pushed back because of binning quality problems, which affects the component manufacturers from delivering their parts to Sony. AMD has notoriously had issues with their suppliers of chips, which is why they made a big fuss a little while ago to use a different supplier, especially when they acquired ATI.

I think it is funny when people try to play the role of CEO and yet have no basic understanding of supply chain management. There are many many companies involved in the process, it isn't just a matter of Sony hiring more people, which is silly anyway, since most of the production is done with machines.

In any case, while they may not deliver on Launch day, I would suspect they would try to still get them to people as quickly as possible within the first few weeks.
 
NoOther said:
Finally some sense being spoken here. This isn't something new, batches of Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3 were all delayed at times because of shortages in components. Also launch dates for many companies have been pushed back because of binning quality problems, which affects the component manufacturers from delivering their parts to Sony. AMD has notoriously had issues with their suppliers of chips, which is why they made a big fuss a little while ago to use a different supplier, especially when they acquired ATI.

I think it is funny when people try to play the role of CEO and yet have no basic understanding of supply chain management. There are many many companies involved in the process, it isn't just a matter of Sony hiring more people, which is silly anyway, since most of the production is done with machines.

In any case, while they may not deliver on Launch day, I would suspect they would try to still get them to people as quickly as possible within the first few weeks.
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+1
There are many variable so it could be lack of parts, lack of planning, lack of staff, or not enough production machinery etc. We are all making assumptions anyway...
 
This just encourages the eBay Gouge Posse that much more...but I'm not surprised. Hardware rollouts of all types tend to be underestimated, it seems...
 
I kinda expected this when I got my pre-order, The "we have additional stock" banner has been up for a while here in Canada at Best Buy and I'm kinda wondering just how many they must have to take pre-orders for so long.
 
BLUEFISH44 said:
I kinda expected this when I got my pre-order, The "we have additional stock" banner has been up for a while here in Canada at Best Buy and I'm kinda wondering just how many they must have to take pre-orders for so long.
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Some places are accepting pre-orders that are not guaranteed for release day availability.
 
kanecvl said:
Out of all that they only thing that will be considered a loss from overproduction is storage/warehouse. You are talking about expenses and market fluctuations... It will sell for 400 on launch and for many years into the future. If they produce to many it will also sit in a warehouse until walmart/bestbuy etc. orders more. Technically its not a loss unless they don't sell it for what they invested in it... I think they should be beefing up the man hours and doing everything they can to meet the demand. I'd be pissed if I pre-ordered and then find out later that I won't get it on launch. And you know stores will have some that are not pre-order, but I'm stuck waiting for my pre-order or lose my deposit (at some stores)... Not cool.
Click to expand...

In the strict sense of your use of the word loss, it might not be work. In the sense i used it it worked.

Launches and christmas sales season are very hard on console manufacturing to begin with. And considering how close the launches are with christmas, I imagine sony, microsoft and AMD is doing everything they can do to meet demand. Especially sony, since they have the better PR and price right now. It does suck, but its the nature of the beast. The only other recourse would be to hold the launch back and potentially miss the christmas season.

There is many, many factors involved with production (i didnt even get into the costs of employees) , and simply overproduciton is typically not a very good idea.
 
kanecvl said:
If they make to many no big deal, they have 10 years to sell'em. None of the parts are limited production so they holding themselves back if anything.
Click to expand...
I can see a few reasons why a vendor wouldn't want to have a big pile of consoles on the shelves even if they expect to sell that many by the end of the generation.

Firstly because it's capital that is tied up, capital that could be being used to make money in other areas.
Secondly because over the lifecycle of a console both the sale price and the manufacturing cost tends to drop as newer techology becomes available. That means that units sitting on a shelf are losing value.
Thirdly warehouse space itself costs money.
 
Its not that they cant produce more PS4, they can produce an unlimited number of PS4's but they dont.
The reason they dont (this isnt the 1st time this has happend) its because the cost to build a PS4 is greater then what they are selling it to us for. For an example we buy the console for 500 but it might be costing sony something like 700-800 to build + ship plus the retailers makes money on each console as well. If they were making a profit on the console you bet your ass they would make enough to fill every single retailer and then some.
Another factor is testing, Many companyes like to use us as testers. So while their 1st Pre Orders roll out they might wait a couple of months to see if there are any huge issues with the console so they can manufacture them correctly. Its a solid business plan.

I think people that pre-ordered might get screwed. I got them on June 11th and paid in full for x5 Ps4's from different retailers. Some I have to pick up , some will be mailed. Bottom line is that if you didnt pre-order you PS4 when Pre-Orderes were made available your going to be on a thin line until the console releases. Lets not forget that retailers arent too worried that you wont get your console, they just want $$.

I personally think we are going to have the same issue we have on every release date for a new console. They will open up Pre-Orders right before Xmas and those shipments are not going to hit stores for another couple or more months. I remember the PS3 had their 2nd release some time in March-April.
 
plugwash said:
I can see a few reasons why a vendor wouldn't want to have a big pile of consoles on the shelves even if they expect to sell that many by the end of the generation.

Firstly because it's capital that is tied up, capital that could be being used to make money in other areas.
Secondly because over the lifecycle of a console both the sale price and the manufacturing cost tends to drop as newer techology becomes available. That means that units sitting on a shelf are losing value.
Thirdly warehouse space itself costs money.
Click to expand...
Good point about capital being tied up and the cost of the tech inside. If they don't grossly overproduce then these things won't be much of a problem. However you don't want to lose sells simply because you didn't or couldn't produce enough units. If they make so many units that they start to devalue then that is a gross over production. PS4 will sell for $400 for many years unless they come with some kind of arcade console like the xbox did... I wont mention the other topics since I've spoken on those.
 
June 20th here I hope I don't get a R-rod sony style cause the lacked QC on the things =)

I mean if you owned a PS3 fat that was a dud for a lot of people
if you still own a Original X-box that is a Miracle in it's own right.
 
Zohar78 said:
In the strict sense of your use of the word loss, it might not be work. In the sense i used it it worked.

Launches and christmas sales season are very hard on console manufacturing to begin with. And considering how close the launches are with christmas, I imagine sony, microsoft and AMD is doing everything they can do to meet demand. Especially sony, since they have the better PR and price right now. It does suck, but its the nature of the beast. The only other recourse would be to hold the launch back and potentially miss the christmas season.

There is many, many factors involved with production (i didnt even get into the costs of employees) , and simply overproduciton is typically not a very good idea.
Click to expand...

+1 On that.
 
Comixbooks said:
June 20th here I hope I don't get a R-rod sony style cause the lacked QC on the things =)

I mean if you owned a PS3 fat that was a dud for a lot of people
if you still own a Original X-box that is a Miracle in it's own right.
Click to expand...

I think the QC on the PS3s were quite good. I've had my fat 20gb PS3 model since launch and i've had to get it fixed only once with the disc error within 2 years of owning the machine. Been running perfect since then. My 360 died on me twice. Ended up buying a newer slim unit instead of getting it fixed the second time. Now I sold my 360 to afford my PS4. lol
 
I for one didn't see this happening. The only real problem I for see this causing is if they can't fulfill pre orders how are they going to have a launch? They will have to release some outside of the pre0rder so they can have a launch. This should make people who preordered a little pist. But its a good kind of pist. The more popular your system the better. Don't want to get stuck with a 3DO.

I would imagine there isn't very many people willing to settle on an Xone simply because they can't get a PS4 on launch either.

this is simply going to increase demand on PS4 even further.

we'll likely see this shit blow up on ebay.
 
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