ID Software: PC gamers moving to console

Chombo

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
3,320
Alright guys listing part builds for a descent gaming box. Yes you or I can do that just fine.

List me a retail solution that is a good gamer compareable to an Xbox 360 or PS3. Then tell me the price. I don't want a one time limited time only deal. I want a set price this is the price kind of deal.

So let me have it.

Oh and make sure two or three players can play on the same machine at the same time while your at it.

Ok ready??? GO!

Answer is really that is not feasable. If you want a pure entertaintment device for the money nothing beats a console.

If you want to tweak and modify and take advantage of a community that knows the program backend better than you ever could and you know computers OF COURSE the computer is the choice for you.

If you are the parent of a couple kids that want a gaming solution you probably don't want a computer unless it is also for educational use. Plus it is easier to police what a person does on a console as opposed to a computer.

Custom built? Heres one. You could probably cut costs even more if you went with a slower processor or maybe an HD 3850 (however the 9600GT is practically the same as an 8800GT) You could probably go with a different case but I just chose that one randomly.

C2D E4500 = $119.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115031
GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3G = $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128084
ECS 9600GT = $149.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134038
Kingston 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 800 = $38.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134635
EXCELSTOR Jupiter Series160GB 7200 RPM = $44.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822210004
FSP Group Blue Storm II 500W = $89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104034
Pioneer 20x DVD-RW = $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129018
RAIDMAX Elite = 26.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156192

Total = $580.92 before any rebates vs 80GB PS3 which is usually $499.99

Probably have to buy Windows as well so thats also an added cost, but prices fluctuate a lot on that and you can find it used or new plus you could buy an upgrade if you already had a prior copy.

I would say that outdoes the 360 or the PS3 handily. Granted there aren't many split screen PC games anymore, and it won't play high def movies in Blu ray format but this is about gaming.
 

ShagnWagn

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
1,233
A few of my friends who were hardcore PC gamers now converted to consoles. Why? Here are some reasons I've heard:

1. Cost - computers generally cost twice as much as a console, if not a few thousand more
2. Endless upgrades - not only cost, but having to research which upgrades to buy, including compatibility and best bang-for-buck purchases
3. Noise - consoles run quieter than loud computer fans
4. Nuances - settings and computers in general have more issues than a box dedicated for just games. there is always somebody at a LAN party that needs their computer fixed to play, or a virus/spyware cleaned off
5. Hassle - computers are bulkier, plus all the peripherals and cords; easier to bag up a just a console than a computer/monitor
6. Coop play - play against a friend without having to take your computer/console over to their place
7. Games - a lot of games (genres) that were only on PC are now on a console because hardware is advanced enough to play them, and don't have so much of a "kid" feel to them

While I do agree with some, I disagree with others. The biggest reasons they switched I feel personally would be #1 and #7. My friends already made their choice, but this is my little slant:

1a. Cost - consoles really aren't much cheaper (if not more expensive) in the long run depending on what you do; add in yearly membership fees, the extra $10 per game, and the premium price on extra controllers & proprietary devices (hard drive, wireless, microtransactions, etc etc); add in cost of the TV and maybe speakers and you are well over the price of a descent computer; the only time i hear console fanboys is talking about SLI rigs that can cost $2000+; they also ignore the fact you can use these "gaming rigs" far beyond their use for strictly games
2a. Upgrades - yes, it is a daunting task to research which equipment works best, then trying to find the best price, then build the computer - no doubt a console is a huge time saver; I guess you could pay the premium and buy a pre-built computer
3a. Noise - my friends that did switch really didn't consider noise when they built their computer; they didn't know you can build a computer with 120mm low rpm fans and it runs silent; ever hear a xbox 360? much louder than most (post-P4) computers nowadays
4a. Nuances - yep, you betcha a computer can have problems; I really like have a device that has multiple uses, but it can sting you back if you don't know what you're doing; kinda like buying a car or electronics without RTFM; when you want to change something you don't know how/what to do; consoles are like calling a cab
5a. Hassle - no contest, computers are heavy, can't compete; but you also can't take your big screen TV with you; sure you could take a computer monitor with you, but that adds (and weight) to the cost right? not to mention now they are bringing their entire Rock Band kit to LAN parties (lol, ugh)
6a. Coop play - it is fun to play against friends on the same screen, but that ruins the element of surprise; I remember playing Goldeneye on a friend's screen back in the day and I was like WTF they can see where I'm at?? (until we put up a large piece of cardboard to split the screen) but for things like Rock Band and such, it works great
7a. Games - I agree, games for the consoles have a more 'adult' feel to them; I just don't see games requiring more than 4-6 buttons to be on consoles any time soon

Anyhow, this is just my little take on the whole statement. My opinion means nothing to anybody but myself, but it works for me so I stick with it. All it takes is a few devs to make a statement and everybody's panties get in a bunch.

Somebody says the sky is falling, and everybody will look up. Some will believe it, some will ignore it and continue as normal, and some will dive for the fallout shelter.

Show me the there aren't any good games for the computer, and I will buy only console games. Until then, I will continue buying and playing computer games on my big screen TV, and my wireless controller if it is sufficient over my wireless KB/M. If I were on a budget, instead of having a computer -and- a console, I would have used the money for the console to buy a video card and some extra memory and had some left over.

Peace out
 

redman223

Gawd
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,013
From about 2000-2006 I was completely out of the PC loop. During that time I just played console games, I had a PS2 and an XBOX. The main reason for the switch was that I had a Gateway that was not easily upgradeable so I would have to rebuild the whole thing, I was too lazy to take the time to do it, so I just went to the consoles. In 2006 when I was about to build another computer I contemplated getting a PS3 instead, I am glad I didn't. The computer has so many other uses, and the expandability and customization are unbeatable, I love gaming on my current computer and would never want to trade it for a console.

I would have been satisfied with the XBOX's graphics if it would have had a higher resolution and anti-aliasing. The current consoles are not bad, but they need to be able to do 4xaa @ 1080p 60fps. The next generation will be able to do that, and if they allow people to use a keyboard and mouse instead of the controller and add custom mapping and macros, then there will probably be alot of people that will make the switch. I can see the MMO crowd and the RTS crowd loving that, even the FPS crowd would be happy. We'll have to wait and see what the next generation of consoles brings.
 

jsu718

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
2,409
List me a retail solution that is a good gamer compareable to an Xbox 360 or PS3. Then tell me the price. I don't want a one time limited time only deal. I want a set price this is the price kind of deal.

Retail caters to the ignorant.
 

damonposey

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
2,320
Custom built? Heres one. You could probably cut costs even more if you went with a slower processor or maybe an HD 3850 (however the 9600GT is practically the same as an 8800GT) You could probably go with a different case but I just chose that one randomly.

C2D E4500 = $119.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115031
GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3G = $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128084
ECS 9600GT = $149.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134038
Kingston 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 800 = $38.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134635
EXCELSTOR Jupiter Series160GB 7200 RPM = $44.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822210004
FSP Group Blue Storm II 500W = $89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104034
Pioneer 20x DVD-RW = $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129018
RAIDMAX Elite = 26.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156192

Total = $580.92 before any rebates vs 80GB PS3 which is usually $499.99

Probably have to buy Windows as well so thats also an added cost, but prices fluctuate a lot on that and you can find it used or new plus you could buy an upgrade if you already had a prior copy.

I would say that outdoes the 360 or the PS3 handily. Granted there aren't many split screen PC games anymore, and it won't play high def movies in Blu ray format but this is about gaming.

looks like you have more work to do. because with that PC all you'd be doing is sitting at post with a keyboard error. add a gaming mouse and a keyboard, plus windows XP and windows vista, a wireless network card, and all the shipping for all of those parts.

even then, its still irrelevant. because its still apples to oranges given that there are very different game catalogues for each system. theres no magic part you can get for the PC that makes certain PC ports not shitty, which is just a sad fact.

I know I sound like a console fanboy that hates PC, but im actually a hardcore PC gamer whos upset with the current state of things. I'm buying my first console since the snes mainly for GTA4, because

1. I know it's going to run great on the ps3 and the xbox360
2. I'm not going to wait months this time for a game thats not only going to have a great SP experience and lots of replayability, but many MP modes.
3. Given the recent bad ports of games from the 360, I'm really not going to get all hyped for a game and find out that its a terrible port when it does eventually come out.

There are other games too, but damn gta4 is shaping up nicely.
 

Nytegard

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
3,559
looks like you have more work to do. because with that PC all you'd be doing is sitting at post with a keyboard error. add a gaming mouse and a keyboard, plus windows XP and windows vista, a wireless network card, and all the shipping for all of those parts.

even then, its still irrelevant. because its still apples to oranges given that there are very different game catalogues for each system. theres no magic part you can get for the PC that makes certain PC ports not shitty, which is just a sad fact.

I know I sound like a console fanboy that hates PC, but im actually a hardcore PC gamer whos upset with the current state of things. I'm buying my first console since the snes mainly for GTA4, because

1. I know it's going to run great on the ps3 and the xbox360
2. I'm not going to wait months this time for a game thats not only going to have a great SP experience and lots of replayability, but many MP modes.
3. Given the recent bad ports of games from the 360, I'm really not going to get all hyped for a game and find out that its a terrible port when it does eventually come out.

There are other games too, but damn gta4 is shaping up nicely.

Questions.

Why do PC gamers always have to include a mouse, keyboard, monitor, wireless network card (which are most likely built into the motherboard nowadays), the ISP, the cables, windows XP/Vista, the shipping, the desk, the electricity bill, and the house to play them in, yet console players don't have to include the TV, stereo system, XBox Live Gold, the second through fourth controllers, the cables which didn't come with the system (HDMI anyone?), and the $100 replacement fee for when your XBox breaks after it's year warrenty (and it will)? Not to mention that the console games cost $10 more? (Oh, because a 60" LCD is automatically assumed to be owned? Don't you think that I already ****ing own the mouse, keyboard, etc? I have about 18 copies of XP, not to mention 6 copies of Vista from how often MS gives them away).

Why are the only acceptable prices people use when judging PC's have to be about PC's which run Crysis at a minimum 60 FPS @ 2560x1600 with every option on Ultra High with 16xAA & 16xAF, yet consoles can barely run PC counterparts at medium settings with no AA nor AF at less than 30 FPS on a resolution of 1024x600?

Yes, consoles use to be different than PC's. I mean, they never get patches right? (Oops, <insert random XBox 360 game here> does). Or they don't have to be installed (DMC4 on the PS3 anyone?). And all you have to do is put in the game and turn it on. Not like you have to navigate to a section to tell it to start... And I remember when GoldenEye came out how everyone stated that multiplayer was best with friends on, and that only losers played with random people across the internet (<insert any modern game here>). Heck, even upgrades are starting to come to consoles (The N64 memory pack. The hard drive upgrades to the consoles. The faster disk for the PSP. ETC...) And don't even mention DRM. As another person linked in their post to an article by Alex St. John, a console is nothing but a glorified DRM machine. About the only area where a console differs from a low end PC is the fact that you can rent console games.
 

Gorankar

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 19, 2000
Messages
10,865
Why are the only acceptable prices people use when judging PC's have to be about PC's which run Crysis at a minimum 60 FPS @ 2560x1600 with every option on Ultra High with 16xAA & 16xAF, yet consoles can barely run PC counterparts at medium settings with no AA nor AF at less than 30 FPS on a resolution of 1024x600?

I want that pc. It should exist some time next year. :D

Yeah, I know, it's annoying to have a console compared to a high end gaming pc at this point. When the consoles first came out they were only just close to a 1500 - 2000 dollar pc. A midrange pc with a $200 vid card is now capable of outrunning the 360/PS3 at the same or a bit higher graphics levels. By the end of the year consoles will prolly only be breaking even against a lower end machine with a $150 graphics card. PC's continue to advance, console are stuck where they are at til replaced by the next gen. Usually every 4 years or so, give or take.

Play on whatever platform you want to play on, have fun and be happy.
 

wildfire99

Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
720
When the consoles first came out they were only just close to a 1500 - 2000 dollar pc. A midrange pc with a $200 vid card is now capable of outrunning the 360/PS3 at the same or a bit higher graphics levels.

Not to mention a very basic fact that I don't think I've seen echoed here yet: PC gaming subsidizes console gaming. Not the other way around. Console gaming would not exist without PC gaming. PC gaming will do just fine, in fact do better, without consoles.

ATI and nVidia don't make their R&D budgets by selling to consoles, they make it by selling (and experimenting with) their PC component families. Microsoft didn't emerge their XBox platform fully formed... it came from the bowels of years of fiddling with Windows and DirectX and WinG.

CDROM games were explored on the PC. Hard drives came down in price because of the PC. Processors didn't get faster because word processing was demanding it, nor did video processors evolve so that email displayed faster. The PC gaming world, like porn and the internet, drove the capabilities and requirements of consoles forward. Without PC gaming, the consoles would languish and die in an Atari-like (during the game crash) world of mediocrity.

Does anybody really trust console game makers to innovate or do anything unique without homebrew apps and unique games like Crysis (visually) and Peggle (gameplay)?

It probably will even out, like a crude kind of equilibrium. The less people play PC games, the more pressure there is to create a unique experience on the PC to break away from the consoles, and the more people get used to demanding, cutting-edge games on the PC, the more they want something simple on consoles. One cannot exist without the other.
 

damonposey

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
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Questions.

Why do PC gamers always have to include a mouse, keyboard, monitor, wireless network card (which are most likely built into the motherboard nowadays), the ISP, the cables, windows XP/Vista, the shipping, the desk, the electricity bill, and the house to play them in, yet console players don't have to include the TV, stereo system, XBox Live Gold, the second through fourth controllers, the cables which didn't come with the system (HDMI anyone?), and the $100 replacement fee for when your XBox breaks after it's year warrenty (and it will)? Not to mention that the console games cost $10 more? (Oh, because a 60" LCD is automatically assumed to be owned? Don't you think that I already ****ing own the mouse, keyboard, etc? I have about 18 copies of XP, not to mention 6 copies of Vista from how often MS gives them away).

Why are the only acceptable prices people use when judging PC's have to be about PC's which run Crysis at a minimum 60 FPS @ 2560x1600 with every option on Ultra High with 16xAA & 16xAF, yet consoles can barely run PC counterparts at medium settings with no AA nor AF at less than 30 FPS on a resolution of 1024x600?

Yes, consoles use to be different than PC's. I mean, they never get patches right? (Oops, <insert random XBox 360 game here> does). Or they don't have to be installed (DMC4 on the PS3 anyone?). And all you have to do is put in the game and turn it on. Not like you have to navigate to a section to tell it to start... And I remember when GoldenEye came out how everyone stated that multiplayer was best with friends on, and that only losers played with random people across the internet (<insert any modern game here>). Heck, even upgrades are starting to come to consoles (The N64 memory pack. The hard drive upgrades to the consoles. The faster disk for the PSP. ETC...) And don't even mention DRM. As another person linked in their post to an article by Alex St. John, a console is nothing but a glorified DRM machine. About the only area where a console differs from a low end PC is the fact that you can rent console games.

You're taking things to an extreme level of ridiculousness but its sorta funny. Although you do raise a good point about furniture. I wouldn't want to game on a PC without a good desk. Though with a console controller you wouldn't need a desk.

you hate console gaming. we get it.
 

Met-AL

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 9, 2002
Messages
7,889
Sadly ID hasn't been relivant for quite some time in the PC world... they, (like Epic) keep pushing out the same drollery and expecting people to lap it up.


Yep, they let a little brand called DICE in on the game and now the FPS shooter has evolved to something more than just a deathmatch.
 

damonposey

2[H]4U
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Nov 1, 2006
Messages
2,320
don't see how any gamer could hate consoles or vice versa.

its an ego thing. like how people listen to death metal and force themselves to like it because it's NOT pop music. but in reality they love nickelback and fallout boy.
 

Nytegard

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
3,559
you hate console gaming. we get it.

No I don't hate console gaming (I do admit though that I love arguing). I do hate the tired and false arguements people bring up when comparing the PC vs console. These range back to the days when a game that was 8 MegaBits must be a greater game than a PC game that was 2 MegaBytes, because 8 is greater than 2.

The world isn't black and white. Just because I don't adore consoles doesn't mean I hate them. I actually use my XBox 360 a decent amount (more than my Wii and PS3 combined. And honestly, the Wii is the machine I use the least).

This isn't about right nor wrong. I believe in personal opinion. Yes, I think Halo is mediocre. I also think the Final Fantasy series is also heavily overrated (especially 7). Zelda OOT is heavily overrated. And on the PC side I think games like Half Life and Myst are overrated. I will admit though that I hate Myst. Myst is the worst game ever made, and is proof that regardless of how many people like a game, it doesn't mean they are right.

I also believe that games are better now than they were 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, or 30 years ago. People mature and grow bored with games, and tastes change. And I do feel that piracy is a major issue. Maybe that's because I work in the software industry, so I'm affected by it...

If Id wants to move to consoles, good. I won't be buying their games, but it's not like I actually liked any Id games to begin with.
 

Hamidxa

Gawd
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
794
Questions.

Why do PC gamers always have to include a mouse, keyboard, monitor, wireless network card (which are most likely built into the motherboard nowadays), the ISP, the cables, windows XP/Vista, the shipping, the desk, the electricity bill, and the house to play them in, yet console players don't have to include the TV, stereo system, XBox Live Gold, the second through fourth controllers, the cables which didn't come with the system (HDMI anyone?), and the $100 replacement fee for when your XBox breaks after it's year warrenty (and it will)? Not to mention that the console games cost $10 more? (Oh, because a 60" LCD is automatically assumed to be owned? Don't you think that I already ****ing own the mouse, keyboard, etc? I have about 18 copies of XP, not to mention 6 copies of Vista from how often MS gives them away).

Why are the only acceptable prices people use when judging PC's have to be about PC's which run Crysis at a minimum 60 FPS @ 2560x1600 with every option on Ultra High with 16xAA & 16xAF, yet consoles can barely run PC counterparts at medium settings with no AA nor AF at less than 30 FPS on a resolution of 1024x600?

Yes, consoles use to be different than PC's. I mean, they never get patches right? (Oops, <insert random XBox 360 game here> does). Or they don't have to be installed (DMC4 on the PS3 anyone?). And all you have to do is put in the game and turn it on. Not like you have to navigate to a section to tell it to start... And I remember when GoldenEye came out how everyone stated that multiplayer was best with friends on, and that only losers played with random people across the internet (<insert any modern game here>). Heck, even upgrades are starting to come to consoles (The N64 memory pack. The hard drive upgrades to the consoles. The faster disk for the PSP. ETC...) And don't even mention DRM. As another person linked in their post to an article by Alex St. John, a console is nothing but a glorified DRM machine. About the only area where a console differs from a low end PC is the fact that you can rent console games.

QFT
 

ShagnWagn

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
1,233
About the only area where a console differs from a low end PC is the fact that you can rent console games.

I've been able to rent PC games locally for several years (12+). It's been about two years since I wanted to rent one, but I'm sure they still do. So I guess there is no difference?
 

Chombo

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
3,320
looks like you have more work to do. because with that PC all you'd be doing is sitting at post with a keyboard error. add a gaming mouse and a keyboard, plus windows XP and windows vista, a wireless network card, and all the shipping for all of those parts.

Seriously?:rolleyes:

Who doesn't have a mouse/keyboard? Wireless network, you're paying for that with your ISP whether you have a PC or not. Operating system, I already addressed that. You're going to include shipping, really?
 

Vader

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
5,003
Bottom line, if Microsoft and the game developers start supporting Keyboard/Mouse on the 360...then my PC will not be touched for gaming...

I'm sick of patches, upgrades..etc..to play the latest games. I'm getting older and do not have the time any longer as my family and responsibilities grow.

Please Microsoft, give the 360 native support for keyboard/mice!
 

damonposey

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
2,320
Seriously?:rolleyes:

Who doesn't have a mouse/keyboard? Wireless network, you're paying for that with your ISP whether you have a PC or not. Operating system, I already addressed that. You're going to include shipping, really?

Does this face look like I'm not being serious? :mad:

:cool: Seriously though. Who doesn't have a mouse/keyboard? I don't know, people who haven't bought them maybe? I doubt anyone has a quality gaming mouse lying around.

Unless you get some extravagant package deal with your ISP, they aren't going to give you a free wireless NIC, or wireless router. They give you a modem and thats it.

You have to include operating system, because not everyone is like you and owns 14 copies of xp and 6 copies of vista. in fact, i think You may be the only one that does.

And yes include shipping. a ps3 from newegg is one flat shipping rate.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
20,246
I'd say for an apples to apples discussion you would likely include the extras for the PC (keyboard/mouse/OS/etc.) but you'd also at least need to factor in an HDTV for the consoles, too. Playing a PS3 or 360 on a SDTV is all but pointless. The one thing is, that's a purchase that should typically last 7-15 years and has more usage than just as a gaming monitor. Your PC's monitor is a lot cheaper, but it's only got one use. Home theater's a different animal. You can use cheaper solutions like the logitech 5.1 and 7.1 setups on either a PC or your consoles.
You can also just do like me and hook your PC up to your TV via an HDMI to DVI plug. 2 birds with one stone. It also gives you a great way to compare multi-platform games. I can compare the PC version of something to the console version just by hitting the "input" button on the TV.
 

Grimlaking

2[H]4U
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
3,246
Custom built? Heres one. You could probably cut costs even more if you went with a slower processor or maybe an HD 3850 (however the 9600GT is practically the same as an 8800GT) You could probably go with a different case but I just chose that one randomly.

C2D E4500 = $119.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115031
GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3G = $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128084
ECS 9600GT = $149.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134038
Kingston 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 800 = $38.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134635
EXCELSTOR Jupiter Series160GB 7200 RPM = $44.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822210004
FSP Group Blue Storm II 500W = $89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104034
Pioneer 20x DVD-RW = $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129018
RAIDMAX Elite = 26.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156192

Total = $580.92 before any rebates vs 80GB PS3 which is usually $499.99

Probably have to buy Windows as well so thats also an added cost, but prices fluctuate a lot on that and you can find it used or new plus you could buy an upgrade if you already had a prior copy.

I would say that outdoes the 360 or the PS3 handily. Granted there aren't many split screen PC games anymore, and it won't play high def movies in Blu ray format but this is about gaming.


Oops you missed something here champ.

List me a retail solution that is a good gamer compareable to an Xbox 360 or PS3. Then tell me the price. I don't want a one time limited time only deal. I want a set price this is the price kind of deal.


You or I can build one sure. But a retail solution that can do it. Not a custom solution because you know the components. But a real retail soltuion that can satisfy simultaneouse play constraints.

I'm still waiting.
 

Chombo

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
3,320
Oops you missed something here champ.

List me a retail solution that is a good gamer compareable to an Xbox 360 or PS3. Then tell me the price. I don't want a one time limited time only deal. I want a set price this is the price kind of deal.


You or I can build one sure. But a retail solution that can do it. Not a custom solution because you know the components. But a real retail soltuion that can satisfy simultaneouse play constraints.

I'm still waiting.

Do you really want me to go to Dell or IBuypower or something for you if I must and come out with a similar (probably slower solution) that requires no knowledge of how to put a PC together.

http://www.ibuypower.com/mall/lobby.htm
 

ShagnWagn

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
1,233
Oops you missed something here champ.

List me a retail solution that is a good gamer compareable to an Xbox 360 or PS3. Then tell me the price. I don't want a one time limited time only deal. I want a set price this is the price kind of deal.


You or I can build one sure. But a retail solution that can do it. Not a custom solution because you know the components. But a real retail soltuion that can satisfy simultaneouse play constraints.

I'm still waiting.

what hardware do you consider "compareable"? that is a huge gray area, and you wouldn't have an exact answer for.

Why not time limited? There is a sale every day of the week at one place or another. Next thing you'll be saying we have to go off MSRP, or say we have to pay for next day shipping and an extended warranty. Why don't you show us what you can come up with, rather than have us do the legwork for you? laziness...

"simulteneouse" play constraints? My old pentium 200 can play coop Joust... and it was a real retail "soltuion". search your local dumpster and you'll find a free "simulteneouse" play contraints computer.

How about learning how to spell, or at least learn how to use a spell checker? I'm still waiting. :)
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
20,246
The last time I tried to help a friend build a gaming computer via Dell and the like, their pricing was literally 2X what I could do by myself. That's the biggest issue with PC gaming. 95% or more of the PC's out there are purchased through a pre-built retail channel. Those are either expensive or they totally suck for games. Most of the sucky ones cannot be upgraded either.
My buddy ended up just having me order the parts for him with his credit card, I assembled it for him, and then I shipped everything to him pre-built with the OS pre-tweaked and games loaded.
My friend's no idiot, but unless you're a PC gaming junkie and keeping up with at least some of the latest news...it's not easy to get a decent gaming PC.
He didn't know what PCIe was. He saw the clock speeds for Core2 machines and they were lower than his P4. He figured "I'll just get a so-so machine and buy a video card for it. Too bad most of the so-so retail machines don't have expansion slots.
That stuff is easy to all of us, but it's like a typical person going into a car repair shop. There's a lot of faith involved. People are forced to trust the guy on the phone at Dell, or that kid who'd rather be stocking CD's at Best Buy.

People can go on and on about how retail is "stupid" - but why should it be? How much of your stuff do you buy through retail? Why should a PC be any different? Do you build your own refrigerator because Sears will give you a shitty one? Did you build your microwave? How about your TV or DVD player? To almost everyone, their PC is no different. They just know that it's no longer worth a damn after 2 years.
 

Grimlaking

2[H]4U
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
3,246
Yep I don't generally use a spell check and type as I work so I am working on multiple things at once. the forums the the minimum amount of time it takes for me to make a post and I type too fast for my own good it seems. That and I don't bother to try and spell worth a crap.


As far as definition of a retail solution. I want to play with multiple players on one display. It needs to plug into my TV and not have any special cooling solutions. Wireless would be great but not required. And it needs to play at the maximum resolutions that my TV will accept and offer Fiber optic connection for multi channel audio to plug into my TV. In the price I want to include a controller.. be it KB and mouse or otherwise as part of the price of the unit. But I have no need for a monitor.

Go.

Oh wait let me Google spell check this.
 

Chombo

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
3,320
The last time I tried to help a friend build a gaming computer via Dell and the like, their pricing was literally 2X what I could do by myself. That's the biggest issue with PC gaming. 95% or more of the PC's out there are purchased through a pre-built retail channel. Those are either expensive or they totally suck for games. Most of the sucky ones cannot be upgraded either.
My buddy ended up just having me order the parts for him with his credit card, I assembled it for him, and then I shipped everything to him pre-built with the OS pre-tweaked and games loaded.
My friend's no idiot, but unless you're a PC gaming junkie and keeping up with at least some of the latest news...it's not easy to get a decent gaming PC.
He didn't know what PCIe was. He saw the clock speeds for Core2 machines and they were lower than his P4. He figured "I'll just get a so-so machine and buy a video card for it. Too bad most of the so-so retail machines don't have expansion slots.
That stuff is easy to all of us, but it's like a typical person going into a car repair shop. There's a lot of faith involved. People are forced to trust the guy on the phone at Dell, or that kid who'd rather be stocking CD's at Best Buy.

People can go on and on about how retail is "stupid" - but why should it be? How much of your stuff do you buy through retail? Why should a PC be any different? Do you build your own refrigerator because Sears will give you a shitty one? Did you build your microwave? How about your TV or DVD player? To almost everyone, their PC is no different. They just know that it's no longer worth a damn after 2 years.

I don't mean to deride your friend or anything but I won't make a purchase for anything over 100 dollars without researching it. 30 minutes on the internet will give you just enough information to know which retail models either suck for gaming or can't be upgraded. Hell even newegg gives you a crash course on components. Furthermore during that 30 minutes you will run into custom computer websites so you can order a gaming machine.

People buy appliances/cars all the time that have ends up being lemons because they didn't do their research. Consoles are no different, RRoD anyone?

Buyer beware.

As far as definition of a retail solution. I want to play with multiple players on one display. It needs to plug into my TV and not have any special cooling solutions. Wireless would be great but not required. And it needs to play at the maximum resolutions that my TV will accept and offer Fiber optic connection for multi channel audio to plug into my TV. In the price I want to include a controller.. be it KB and mouse or otherwise as part of the price of the unit. But I have no need for a monitor.

Go.

Oh wait let me Google spell check this.

See above link to ibuypower. Split screen is a game restriction not a hardware restriction.

Go.
 

Grimlaking

2[H]4U
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
3,246
I just took the base model. No monitor no speakers no memory card readers. None of that crap. upgraded to a motherboard with spdif and got a price of $637.00. And that is having to research a motherboard with on-board spdif out.

So console wins again. Now admittedly the pc will be more overall useful. Homework and other assorted things that can be done. But for a price difference of 237.00. Not to mention needing to know os and other assorted goodies to get it all working. And no I did not worry about wireless networking.

So the price of entry for a main stream PC with the minimum specs I detailed above is still 237 dollars more than a 360 or ps3. Enough for a couple games and a couple controllers. So I have gone. Your turn.
 

Chombo

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
3,320
I just took the base model. No monitor no speakers no memory card readers. None of that crap. upgraded to a motherboard with spdif and got a price of $637.00. And that is having to research a motherboard with on-board spdif out.

So console wins again. Now admittedly the pc will be more overall useful. Homework and other assorted things that can be done. But for a price difference of 237.00. Not to mention needing to know os and other assorted goodies to get it all working. And no I did not worry about wireless networking.

So the price of entry for a main stream PC with the minimum specs I detailed above is still 237 dollars more than a 360 or ps3. Enough for a couple games and a couple controllers. So I have gone. Your turn.

Wow you really are a good example of the general user aren't you. Go to the X2 configuration option.

Xion Hydraulic Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply
AMD Athlon&#8482; X2 4200+
Asus M2A-VM AMD 690G
Corsair Value 2048MB [1024MB X2] DDR2-800 PC6400
Nvidia Geforce 9600GT
160 GB HARD DRIVE
20X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive
600W PMPO 3 PCS Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System
Mitsumi 1.44 MB Internal Floppy Drive
PS/2 104 Key Windows 98 Keyboard
Logitech Optical Internet Mouse
Total = 562.00 (Thats a difference of 63 bucks from the 80GB PS3)

Thats base model with the exception of the 9600GT. It includes the speakers and the and the mouse keyboard. Does your console come with speakers?
Good Sleuthing :rolleyes:

EDIT and it can come with a free game as well.
 

ShagnWagn

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
1,233
So console wins again. Now admittedly the pc will be more overall useful. Homework and other assorted things that can be done. But for a price difference of 237.00. Not to mention needing to know os and other assorted goodies to get it all working. And no I did not worry about wireless networking.

So the price of entry for a main stream PC with the minimum specs I detailed above is still 237 dollars more than a 360 or ps3. Enough for a couple games and a couple controllers. So I have gone. Your turn.

Wins what? So you are basically saying for another $237 (which we can narrow the gap even further except for your special limitations), I can have a machine that will do everything for me, and will continue to be useful well past it's gaming prime?

I guess the price premium for more hard drive space ($100 for 20GB or $180 for 120GB? lmfao!) and the yearly gamer subscription doesn't count? I guess we could use that yearly xbl charge for future upgrades on the computer. Oh that's right, the xbox is stuck with it's year 2005 aging graphics. :p

Price really is not the main factor here, because when people want something in particular they will pay extra to get it. Many of the great games that were PC-only are now also available on the console. Combine that with ease-of-use, and that is why some people have made the switch.

The video card manufacturers sure are not making upgrade paths any easier. Their greed and flooding of the market with multiple versions and naming of the same product is putting a dent in the market. I won't even get into the failure that is SLI (or even their latest quad SLI blunder). :p

thanks for using spell checker, your posts are MUCH easier to read!
 

Grimlaking

2[H]4U
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
3,246
My Limitations are for what I would want out of a console... My personal minimum requirements. But still for those that don't make enough and have to budget something for the kids that extra 200 for the base unit is a big deal.
 

Chombo

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
3,320
My Limitations are for what I would want out of a console... My personal minimum requirements. But still for those that don't make enough and have to budget something for the kids that extra 200 for the base unit is a big deal.

If 200 is a big deal, what console did you go with?
 

jsu718

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
2,409
Wow you really are a good example of the general user aren't you. Go to the X2 configuration option.

Xion Hydraulic Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply
AMD Athlon&#8482; X2 4200+
Asus M2A-VM AMD 690G
Corsair Value 2048MB [1024MB X2] DDR2-800 PC6400
Nvidia Geforce 9600GT
160 GB HARD DRIVE
20X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive
600W PMPO 3 PCS Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System
Mitsumi 1.44 MB Internal Floppy Drive
PS/2 104 Key Windows 98 Keyboard
Logitech Optical Internet Mouse
Total = 562.00 (Thats a difference of 63 bucks from the 80GB PS3)

EDIT and it can come with a free game as well.
Well, in going with the theme of having something matching up with the consoles, with the exception of a blu-ray drive, the system I put together from there was ...
$352.

A few changes...
simpler case
drop to 512MB ram like the Xbox360. Couldn't drop to 256MB like the PS3
Didn't need a floppy drive, nor a dvd burner, since I figure I would upgrade to a Blu-ray drive for $125 elsewhere.
Didn't upgrade the video card, since that would be unfair to the consoles to be so overpowering.
No speakers...
 

Chombo

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
3,320
Well, in going with the theme of having something matching up with the consoles, with the exception of a blu-ray drive, the system I put together from there was ...
$352.

A few changes...
simpler case
drop to 512MB ram like the Xbox360. Couldn't drop to 256MB like the PS3
Didn't need a floppy drive, nor a dvd burner, since I figure I would upgrade to a Blu-ray drive for $125 elsewhere.
Didn't upgrade the video card, since that would be unfair to the consoles to be so overpowering.
No speakers...

Yea, but he asked for a retail solution so I had to go with something premade...
 

damonposey

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
2,320
And what kind of warranty is with that? remember with an xbox360 it's a 3 year warranty to replace the system. So how much is a 3-year full protection warranty for that pc?

the truth is, because the PC is unlikely to see great ports from the 360 or ps3, even a computer much faster than the one you pieced together won't be able to run it as well as the console did. That's why this whole piecing together a pc endeavour is ultimately pointless. You could piece together a system thats $100 and has the best hardware out, and it would still mean nothing to someone who wants to play gta4(this century).

Game catalogues are whats important. what platform has the games you want? and in the case of the PC, what platform has the games you want AND can run them adequately without a $2000 PC.
 

wildfire99

Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
720
Don't forget the consoles are built at a price loss initially. Configuring anything from a pre-fab vendor or even NewEgg is misleading because you're getting their reseller markup as well as losing out on quantity discounts... and you're not even considering that the consoles cost more than their retail price to start with.

Sony's PlayStation 3 games console costs the consumer electronics giant at least $840 to make, $241 more than the $599 asking price, market watcher iSuppli has claimed. Its figure is its estimate for the cost of the materials and manufacturing, but Sony's R&D and marketing expenditure will surely push the console's unit cost much higher.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/11/16/isuppli_prices_up_ps3/

And don't forget how much of a savings Microsoft is enjoying with it's stellar and bulletproof 360 console. Even they were losing money initially anyway:

The two biggest points of contrast between the PS3 and Xbox 360 in terms of component costs are what iSuppli calls the "motherboard"&#8212;CPU, GPU, memory, controllers, etc.&#8212;and the optical drive. The PS3's "motherboard" costs $500 for Sony, while the Xbox 360 motherboard is only $200&#8212;down from a $370 figure at launch. The Xbox 360's vanilla DVD optical drive is only $19.45, over $100 cheaper than the Blu-ray's price tag.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061116-8239.html

Sure you can get someone like Dell to build you a computer at a $200 loss, but they have to make it up somehow. For now, I'd rather enjoy my $30-40 PC games than be locked into $60 games just to save $200 up-front.
 

damonposey

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
2,320
Don't forget the consoles are built at a price loss initially. Configuring anything from a pre-fab vendor or even NewEgg is misleading because you're getting their reseller markup as well as losing out on quantity discounts... and you're not even considering that the consoles cost more than their retail price to start with.


http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/11/16/isuppli_prices_up_ps3/

And don't forget how much of a savings Microsoft is enjoying with it's stellar and bulletproof 360 console. Even they were losing money initially anyway:


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061116-8239.html

again this is information that doesn't concern ANYONE except for nerds who like details. You're resorting to pointless information.

I mean what's the point of submitting info like this? Do you want people with consoles to say, oh well since MS is losing money I guess PC is better! I'll throw away my console now!
 

wildfire99

Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
720
I mean what's the point of submitting info like this? Do you want people with consoles to say, oh well since MS is losing money I guess PC is better! I'll throw away my console now!

I'm trying to refute the notion that PC gaming is bad because the hardware costs more. I believe the overall costs are similar, so cost should not be a factor. Since there is so much debate on exactly how to build a gaming PC that compares cost-wise to a console, I believe it's very relevant to show the true component costs of the consoles. You're paying the cost difference in the price of games (via licensing fees and such).

I hadn't really thought about it, but someone earlier (in another thread) asked why console games cost more. And this 'loss' per console is probably why.
 

damonposey

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
2,320
I'm trying to refute the notion that PC gaming is bad because the hardware costs more. I believe the overall costs are similar, so cost should not be a factor. Since there is so much debate on exactly how to build a gaming PC that compares cost-wise to a console, I believe it's very relevant to show the true component costs of the consoles. You're paying the cost difference in the price of games (via licensing fees and such).

I hadn't really thought about it, but someone earlier (in another thread) asked why console games cost more. And this 'loss' per console is probably why.

The overall costs can't be computed by you or anybody, thats the thing. there is no set amount of games people buy, in fact many people just rent console games.
 
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