i7 8700k +1080ti on silverstone 500w sfx-l?

Discussion in 'Power Supplies' started by EvoFreak, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. EvoFreak

    EvoFreak Limp Gawd

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    Hi guys! Probably been asked this question a lot of times but I cant find specific answer to this setup. I have an 8700K (OCed to 5.1 ghz @ 1.3v) and Asus strix 1080 currently and Silverstone 500w sfx-l can power them up great. I will be upgrading to 1080ti soon and I just found out I need minimum of 600w of PSU. Before buying a PSU, i just thougt that i ask you guys if my current PSU will be ok with 1080ti?

    Thanks

    Edit: I also have 1 SSD and X61 kraken cpu cooler.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  2. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    The 1080Ti can use over 100W more power than the regular 1080. When [H] reviewed a 1080 Ti (https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/10/25/msi_geforce_gtx_1080_ti_gaming_x_trio_review/13) they hit up to 480W at the wall on a similar system (7700K @ 5 GHz), while a slightly different testbed with the regular 1080 only hit 350W.

    I'd say you're really riding the line there, mostly thanks to the overclock. I wouldn't risk it, since poor quality power can cause hard to nail down stability issues and potentially even damage the hardware physically over time.
     
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  3. Elkwood

    Elkwood Limp Gawd

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    Yea i agree with sinister.

    Me personally i want a good quality 750 watt. I tend to go over
    board on PS though.
     
  4. EvoFreak

    EvoFreak Limp Gawd

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    It sucks that Im gonna need a psu too:( very expensive upgrade for a 1080ti. Im only limited to sfx power supply as i have a rvz02 case. Corsair sf600 is my only option
     
  5. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    I don't overclock near as much as you have (I refuse to touch voltage) but my 1080 Ti and 6700k run on a 600W no problem.
     
  6. EvoFreak

    EvoFreak Limp Gawd

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    Ok just got the sc2 1080ti but waiting for my psu. Tried it with my 500w sfx-l psu. I benchmarked the 1080ti using the unigine benchmark application for 30 mins and its good. Tried playing assassin creed unity for 30 mins not a problem. When i play bf1 online. Screen goes black and on and will loose signal after a minute. Is that PSU issue?
     
  7. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    I would think you'd lock up, rather than just lose picture. That sounds like loss of HDMI handshake.
     
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  8. Pandur

    Pandur Limp Gawd

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    A overloaded PSU can cause wonky stuff to happen. But the black screen could be other stuff to. Unless you test with a larger PSU and the problem goes away, it's hard to say for sure.
     
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  9. EvoFreak

    EvoFreak Limp Gawd

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    does this apply when using display port too? When i had the 1080, I never had this problem. I also played assasins creed origin for an hour and not a single problem.
    I will try another psu. Is it bad to run a psu pull load let say for 4 hours a day?
     
  10. Pandur

    Pandur Limp Gawd

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    HDMI and DP both use HDCP to keep the signal "safe". And loss of this handshake can cause a black screen.

    When it comes to the size of PSU and running it at max load. You will pretty much anywhere you look, find the standard advice that you should never run a PSU anywhere near max load. From an electronic viewpoint you should be able to run it up to 100% load for hours every day. But how can you guarantee that you never pass 100%? So to keep it running for years too come, and keep your other hardware safe from dips/spikes in voltage, bad noise and all other sorts of nasty stuff an overloaded PSU can expose your computer parts to (before protection circuits cut in, if it's a quality PSU). A rule of thumb is that you should aim to never pass about 80% of max load. This will also keep you within the best range of efficiency on most PSUs. But yeah, ymmv and all that.
     
  11. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    Pandur has it right on the HDCP handshake, and the PSU load advice.

    Also, anecdotal evidence, but my 1080 Ti seemed much pickier about HDMI cabling to my 4K display than my previous 1070 was. Like I literally had to change cables and couldn't use the same cable I had been using for some months when I upgraded from the 1070 to the 1080 Ti - the 1080Ti constantly flickered to black screen using the cable the 1070 was fine with. Swapped cables, all fine now. *shrug*
     
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  12. EvoFreak

    EvoFreak Limp Gawd

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    How do i know what cable to buy? is there a specific one? I just went back to store and get the sc2 replace with FTW3 and still same thing. Screen blacks out after few minutes of gameplay in BF1

    Edit: I tried the Display port cable that came with my monitor and it works. I was able to play one round of conquest in BF1 without blacking out my monitor.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  13. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    I actually swapped to the HDMI cable that came with my display (a 4K TV) rather than use the one I had purchased aftermarket, and it fixed it for me. Sounds like you swapped to your monitor's displayport cable and that worked too.
     
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  14. EvoFreak

    EvoFreak Limp Gawd

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    Thank you guys for the help. Another question... whats the worst that could happen when i still keep using my 500w sfx-l? Im thinking of keep using the psu until it dies down.

    Edit: i tried to OC my videocard to 2050ghz on core and my pc locked up on me.
     
  15. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    Physical damage to your hardware is the worst case scenario. It's unlikely, but possible. Data corruption is also on the menu. Frequent lockups are the most likely.
     
  16. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    You're probably right at the limit with the OC on both CPU and video card. Kind of a pitfall of the form factor and the performance you're looking for.

    Run the CPU at stock to see if you get the same issues.
     
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  17. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    Could be unstable OC as well. In addition to this recommendation you can underclock the gpu using afterburner. Stock CPU/underclocked gpu should easily put you south of 500W as long as you don't have lots of other stuff connected that's not mentioned.
     
  18. 1911Shootist

    1911Shootist [H]ard|Gawd

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    But a Kill-a-Watt meter for ~$20 and you can see what your system is using. Multiply that by your PSU's efficiency at that level and you should be able to tell very easily if you're over stressing your PSU.
     
  19. EvoFreak

    EvoFreak Limp Gawd

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    Ive actually just bought that and my whole system including monitor etc, im maxing out at 410w. Just the rig alone is maxing out at 350w while playing assassins creed origin. Thats with stock 8700k and oced 1080ti to 2025ghz core and 5800ghz mem.
     
  20. 1911Shootist

    1911Shootist [H]ard|Gawd

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    350W x 87% efficient = 305W actually being demanded by the rig. 500W PSU is more than enough for your real world use.

    Could try benchmark/torture testing to see what the rig is really capable of pulling.
     
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  21. freddy419

    freddy419 n00bie

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    I've been running the silverstone 500w sfx-l and 1080ti for a while, no issues
     
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  22. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    psu doesn't meet the minimum for the gpu, bf1 goes black and then tries to oc and wonders why it locks up...
    get the minimum gpu required to run at stock. if you want to oc you need more, say 650-700w. anyone here that has been doing this for more than a few years and knows their shit will tell you to never go with just the bare minimum and never would tell you to go lower.
     
  23. EvoFreak

    EvoFreak Limp Gawd

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    Ill do when i get home. What kind of test should i be doing to get full a max off my rig?
    Good to know. Looks like i might return the sf600.
     
  24. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    keep the 600 and use occt's psu test to completely load the system.
     
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  25. EvoFreak

    EvoFreak Limp Gawd

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    The blacking out of the display in bf1 has been resolve. It turns out the display port cable was the culprit. I used the cable that it came with my monitor and the issue is gone.
     
  26. EvoFreak

    EvoFreak Limp Gawd

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    Will just do that. I still have a week to decide if i really need the sf600.
     
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  27. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    OK but you're still pushing a 500w way too hard, especially a sff psu. people don't seems to understand that the gpu makers put a minimum on the box for a reason and that's just for normal usage. as soon as you start OC'ing the psu requirements go waaaay up.

    edit: oops I did miss the dp cable part.
     
  28. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    Just one more bit of anecdotal evidence...

    I don't have a Kill-a-Watt, but my PC is connected to a UPS with a maximum power output of 560W. I run a 6700k + 32 GB DDR4 + 1080 Ti and my 6700k is not currently OC'd. My display is the only other thing connected to the UPS.

    The other day, I enabled a higher TDP limit and a moderate OC profile on my GPU, and midway through a gaming session (PUBG) the over-utilization alarm triggered on my UPS and powered down my system. I removed the GPU OC and voila, things are back to normal. That tells me that I'm just below pulling 560W at the wall on my system under intense stress, enough so that any further overclocking pushes me over that limit. Obviously my UPS might trigger its utilization alarm somewhere below 560W exactly, but it's going to be in the neighborhood somewhere. And as I mentioned, my display is also plugged in and is thus pulling some of that 560W for itself - best guess is around 70W of that is going to the LCD, leaving somewhere in the neighborhood of 460-480W going to the system.

    So this is just a cautionary tale of a guy with a similar-ish CPU and GPU setup pulling (best-guess) ~470W from the wall, and higher when OC'd. My 470W number would be achievable for a decent 500W power supply, but it's definitely on the upper end of what a PSU should handle (their efficiency drops a bit as you approach their maximum output) and overclocking both your CPU and GPU could easily push you higher up than the 470W I pull at stock, and further out of the PSU's 'comfort zone'.

    You don't *have* to buy a new PSU. But you came to this thread and asked a bunch of hardware nerds if we thought your PSU would be OK with the 1080 Ti, and you can mark me down as one of those nerds putting my mark into the 'nope- you should upgrade it' column.
     
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  29. 1911Shootist

    1911Shootist [H]ard|Gawd

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    GPU manufacturers do that as a CYA so they don't get blamed when their card doesn't work in a system where someone is running a $17.99 Diablotek that barely meets ATX specs too close to it's edge when they didn't factor in their 8 velociraptor array into the power consumption calculation. He's already verified he is using 61% of his PSU's capacity - that is no where near the edge of reliability... in fact, he's not even at the most efficient point on the power curve yet. Maybe if he was running an off brand they're be reason to doubt it, but the Silverstone 500W FX-L is a solid unit.
     
  30. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    sorry but ill stand by my opinion gathered from 20+ years of experience. you want to run your system with bare minimum go nuts but don't bitch if/when it has problems.
     
  31. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    I agree with this; power supplies are a racket as far as I'm concerned. GPU manufacturers absolutely label their stuff as 'requiring' a PSU of X wattage because they are trying to outpace the performance of shitty power supplies. I have to imagine the PSU manufacturers like it as well, since without GPU manufacturers saying their cards need 650W CPUs the PSU makers would probably sell far fewer 700W+ power supplies, and justifying their sometimes stupid prices would become much harder to do.

    That said, I will disagree with the rest for a few reasons. Firstly, he measured his power draw at 350W at a single moment in time, during which his CPU was not overclocked. As the owner of a similar system that should have a similar power draw, I know I hit higher numbers than he has seen on his Kill-a-Watt thanks to my overdrawn UPS event. Secondly, his initial post stipulated that he *would* be operating on an overclocked CPU (achieved with +voltage) which will ratchet up his power consumption even more. Also, the [H] reviews for 1080 Ti cards hit 480W and 500W at the wall with OC'd stuff, which is *way* closer to the edge.

    If he had said "I've got the 7700k and 1080 Ti and I'm running everything at stock, will my nice 500W PSU be OK?" I'd be on the "You'll be fine" bandwagon unless proven otherwise. Throw in the overclocking? That puts me over the line.

    That's just where my personal comfort zone is though. He's got the Kill-a-Watt and the option to keep or return the 600W unit, he can make up his own mind at this point. He asked for opinions, I gave mine with my reasons and you've given yours. Job's done!
     
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  32. freddy419

    freddy419 n00bie

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    This is a good point, everything should work UNTIL you start overclocking, in which case there's probably not enough margin in the PSU capacity. At that point something might croak
     
  33. 1911Shootist

    1911Shootist [H]ard|Gawd

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    Stress testing stock, and then stress testing OC'd, while actually measuring power consumption, will answer all assumptions.
     
  34. Neapolitan6th

    Neapolitan6th Limp Gawd

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    You could also consider the Silverstone SFX 650 watt if you felt you wanted even more headroom. And for "never" needing to buy a PSU again... You could consider the SFX-l 800 watt silverstone psu.

    Nice thing about PSUs is that they last between builds (especially quality ones such as these) So if that helps you stomach the cost, I say go for it
     
  35. Mut1ny

    Mut1ny [H]ard|Gawd

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    What is this? 2006? Oh those were the days...
     
  36. freddy419

    freddy419 n00bie

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    good ol' days
     
  37. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    As stated, it's a CYA measure, and often massively overrated. Buy the PSU for your planned use scenario is all I have to say.

    470 watts from the UPS means you're pulling about 430 watts from the PSU, and probably less than that, depending on how efficient it is.
     
  38. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    I'm completely aware. I'm also running at stock speeds on my CPU, and I was at near-stock speeds on the GPU (having used the GPU manufacturer's utility to put the card into "OC" mode rather than its default of "Gaming" mode) when I hit my UPS output limit. Fixing my UPS issues aside, aggressively pushing my OC numbers for both the CPU and GPU could easily likely consume an additional 100W of power, and the original premise of this thread involved a highly OC'd CPU and presumably a correspondingly OC'd GPU to go with it. That was my point.

    Actually, my real point was just my opinion, which was that I would upgrade the PSU as well, but that was my reasoning.
     
  39. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    I see a lot of people chiming in that are clearly misinformed.

    Are you guys just shooting from the hip on this and parroting what you've heard from your friends or maybe the internet over the years, a combination of both maybe?

    First of all, there are several PSU system calculators out there that are free and extremely easy to navigate so by all means do not take my word for it. Go and check yourself!

    If you're case has 4x 120mm fans, 1 x 1080ti, the 8700k, AIO water-cooling, 16gb of DDR4, an SSD and 1 x 5tb mechanical hard-drive then your system UNDER LOAD would be around 430 watts. +/- 10watts. there are many variables but nothing drastic.

    I've been a PC builder for around 30 years. I've built workstations for companies who've design parts for Dupont, Nascar, Ford, Fiat-Chrysler, Tesla. I've had a few consumer products inside all major stores, again, nothing I've personally designed but products my clients have designed using my workstations. In fact the new 2018 Jeep that was just announced last week has a few parts on it my workstations have designed. Something I'm especially proud of.

    Most guys building a PC ( many of you here ) simply over-kill it when it comes to the PSU's they buy and put into their systems. The fault is not entirely theirs. Some of it comes from terrible advice from other PC users and marketing on the behalf of the PSU companies. Even a small amount of fault can be attributed to salesman at Best Buy, Fry's, Microcenter, etc. There is also the very valid reasoning and logic guys use that "more is better" when it comes to PSU's. All of these has lead to the current mindset that you needs large massive power supplies, so I get it. But, you don't.

    If you're under budget constraints at the moment until funds become more readily available to you then you will be fine. You will be more than fine. Ignore the doom and gloom guys on this tread.

    Now .... if you had a Rosewill in there or some PSU with plastic chrome and crazy blue LED's beaming out from it then ... I would be worried. I've had to replace many PSU's over the years. It's always the cheap PSU's that go. Very very very rarely do I see bad PSU's take out other components.

    If you do plan on updating your PSU in the near future you do not need to move up to 700+ watts. A quality 600watt or 650watt PSU will be more than sufficient. The biggest factor you want to consider is not watts but the quality of the PSU. Look for PSU's that offer 10 - 12 year warranties.

    I personally have been using Seasonic 660 watt Platinum rated PSU's in my client builds. Very good PSU's and very affordable. I currently buy these for around $130 shipped thru a supplier.

    Also some advice. Guys, kick it up a notch / level. Consider the 7820K for $499 before you buy the 8700K for $420 - $499 ( There is a thread on this here on HardOCP )

    Good luck.
     
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  40. sinisterDei

    sinisterDei Gawd

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    At stock, I agree. The discussion, however, is not about running at stock, but instead about running highly overclocked with increased voltages and TDP limits. Using Seasonic's wattage calculator (https://seasonic.com/wattage-calculator) and some guesstimated OC numbers in addition to what has been presented here, it came up with 488W load wattage and recommended a Seasonic 650W unit.

    Again with the agreement; I believe the replacement PSU in consideration is a 600W.

    I think that's a fairly expensive 660W PSU.

    Er, I assume you're referring to 7820X, the 8 core/16 thread CPU. Seems lovely. Sounds like he already owns the 8700k though, and the 7820X isn't $499 it's $579-599 where I can buy it (Amazon/Newegg). Also, he's running a small form factor setup - not sure if it's ITX or mATX. If it's ITX, your socket 2066 options are super limited and mega expensive, and also use laptop style RAM.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017