I want some cans to go deaf with for $250

bigddybn

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I listen to pretty much anything with a heavy beat. My tastes swing from old Metallica to Jungle Rot to Tech9. Emphasis on heavier metal/rock. I already own 1000XM3s so I'm more than covered in the wireless and noise cancelling stuff.

What I want is something to melt my face. I want to crank it to 12. My cheeks should be shaking. I don't want fart cannons but I want something that's going to play clean with a solid bottom end past what I can tolerate without a seizure. Musical and loud is the name of my game. I have no use for a flat response curve. I don't care if everyone in the house can hear what I'm listening to. It's my house. I just wanna rock without my wife complaining about shit falling off the entertainment center in the living room outside my office. Ask me how I know.

Source will be whatever Realtek chip is on my Z490 board through a Yamaha RX-V385 receiver unless a dedicated DAC/AMP is the way to go but I'm not feeling it is. I'm happy with the quality from that setup through my current speakers. The headphone output has to have some type of oomph to it right? I pulled $250 out of my ass because if I think it'll jam then I'll probably pay for it but wasting money isn't on the menu.

Where should I be looking?

EDIT: I should point out that I'm a fan of the XM3 sound and fit. I can wear these things for hours and the sounds is nicely balanced in my opinion. I just want to crank it.
 
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B00nie

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I listen to pretty much anything with a heavy beat. My tastes swing from old Metallica to Jungle Rot to Tech9. Emphasis on heavier metal/rock. I already own 1000XM3s so I'm more than covered in the wireless and noise cancelling stuff.

What I want is something to melt my face. I want to crank it to 12. My cheeks should be shaking. I don't want fart cannons but I want something that's going to play clean with a solid bottom end past what I can tolerate without a seizure. Musical and loud is the name of my game. I have no use for a flat response curve. I don't care if everyone in the house can hear what I'm listening to. It's my house. I just wanna rock without my wife complaining about shit falling off the entertainment center in the living room outside my office. Ask me how I know.

Source will be whatever Realtek chip is on my Z490 board through a Yamaha RX-V385 receiver unless a dedicated DAC/AMP is the way to go but I'm not feeling it is. I'm happy with the quality from that setup through my current speakers. The headphone output has to have some type of oomph to it right? I pulled $250 out of my ass because if I think it'll jam then I'll probably pay for it but wasting money isn't on the menu.

Where should I be looking?

EDIT: I should point out that I'm a fan of the XM3 sound and fit. I can wear these things for hours and the sounds is nicely balanced in my opinion. I just want to crank it.
Cranking up headphones is very detrimental to your hearing. I recommend trying a tactile system which will simulate the bass beat in your body. You will never get a satisfying feeling from headphones alone if you want to 'feel' the music.
 

Spartacus09

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I’m a fan of the Sennheiser HD6XX, you can’t really get better quality sound for sub $250 IMO. That said it offers music clarity rather than rumbling bass, and it shines best with enough power, which most home receivers will work, but are under powered.
 

MaZa

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Another extreme metal head here. Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 32ohm version is what I would choose if you want a headphone with a V-type fun sound, elevated bass and treble and slightly recessed midrange, but is still clearly a hifi headphone at heart. They have low reaching strong bass but it is not muddy in the slightest and it does not bleed into midrange. Not a Beats fart cannon but GOOD quality bass. And treble has a nice sparkle that makes hi-hats sparkle. And black metal too. 😎
 

bigddybn

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Another extreme metal head here. Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 32ohm version is what I would choose if you want a headphone with a V-type fun sound, elevated bass and treble and slightly recessed midrange, but is still clearly a hifi headphone at heart. They have low reaching strong bass but it is not muddy in the slightest and it does not bleed into midrange. Not a Beats fart cannon but GOOD quality bass. And treble has a nice sparkle that makes hi-hats sparkle. And black metal too. 😎
This is a model I've read about a few times. Would the higher impedance version be a better idea? Not trying to drive this with a phone or anything. More than willing to amp them if need be.
 

MaZa

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This is a model I've read about a few times. Would the higher impedance version be a better idea? Not trying to drive this with a phone or anything. More than willing to amp them if need be.

Apparently higher ohm version is better but the difference is not that huge that one should lose sleep over it. 32 ohm version is just more flexible on sources. Personally I currently own 250ohm version and have owned the oldschool 80ohm version previously but not at the same time (few years between) so I cannot confirm if one is better over the other. Surprisingly 250ohm version is not super hard to drive, I can play it with my phone and it does not sound bad but I have to push the volume quite high to get a comfortable listening volume. Your reveiver won't probably even break a sweat. The 250 ohm version should be fine with your rig.
 

Spartacus09

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Apparently higher ohm version is better but the difference is not that huge that one should lose sleep over it. 32 ohm version is just more flexible on sources. Personally I currently own 250ohm version and have owned the oldschool 80ohm version previously but not at the same time (few years between) so I cannot confirm if one is better over the other. Surprisingly 250ohm version is not super hard to drive, I can play it with my phone and it does not sound bad but I have to push the volume quite high to get a comfortable listening volume. Your reveiver won't probably even break a sweat. The 250 ohm version should be fine with your rig.
Most receivers if they publish it at all are only pushing super low impedance for the headphone output.
That said I think your yamaha is rated 100mV@470ohm based off the manual not quite sure how to translate the info though as it also lists 1khz, 50mV@8ohm.
 

MaZa

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Most receivers if they publish it at all are only pushing super low impedance for the headphone output.
That said I think your yamaha is rated 100mV@470ohm based off the manual not quite sure how to translate the info though as it also lists 1khz, 50mV@8ohm.

To be honest I do now know how good headphone amplifier circuits receivers have these days but I figured they would be better than what are on phones at least. 🤔
 

Spartacus09

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To be honest I do now know how good headphone amplifier circuits receivers have these days but I figured they would be better than what are on phones at least. 🤔

I have 2 dedicated headphone dac/amp units my cheap one is a SMSL M3 ($50) that does 108mw @ 32 ohm (or 24mW @ 300 ohm), my schiit jotunheim ($400) does 6W (6000mW) @ 32 ohm (or 1.2W (1200mW) @ 300 ohm)
So theres a substantial difference, but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if a phone was better than some receivers.

That all said any output will work but if OP wants to go deaf he needs something that can really push power, or a low impedance headphone to get the most out of what he has (most phones are designed around 32 ohm impedance).
 
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bigddybn

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Reading several reviews that call this a "neutral" sounding set though I'm not sure I'm actually looking at the right HE-560 model? https://hometheaterreview.com/hifiman-he-560-over-the-ear-headphones-reviewed/ https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hifiman-he-560.20044/reviews

I'm out of my wheelhouse here but I've been on this rock long enough to know that it's better to "buy once, cry once" with pretty much anything worth doing. I definitely don't want an accurate monitor though. I'm leaning toward the DT 770 80 ohm version with an amp.

Thought on the FiiO K3? https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Headphone-Amplifier-Computer-Balanced/dp/B07KR3RF4H/ Read several people mention the bass enhancement is much better than the E10K which would be worth a few bucks by itself. I wanna rock but don't want muddy bass.
 

legcramp

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Reading several reviews that call this a "neutral" sounding set though I'm not sure I'm actually looking at the right HE-560 model? https://hometheaterreview.com/hifiman-he-560-over-the-ear-headphones-reviewed/ https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hifiman-he-560.20044/reviews

I'm out of my wheelhouse here but I've been on this rock long enough to know that it's better to "buy once, cry once" with pretty much anything worth doing. I definitely don't want an accurate monitor though. I'm leaning toward the DT 770 80 ohm version with an amp.

Thought on the FiiO K3? https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Headphone-Amplifier-Computer-Balanced/dp/B07KR3RF4H/ Read several people mention the bass enhancement is much better than the E10K which would be worth a few bucks by itself. I wanna rock but don't want muddy bass.

Yeah I guess they are kinda neutral, I thought they did everything extremely well especially for under $300. I paid double that for the version 1 in 2015 and thought it was worth it.

BUT with that said, I think the DT 770 Pro 80 ohm would treat you well, they are pretty bassy and I have owned three separate pairs of these years ago when I was going through that head-fi phase.

With that said.... if you want to go down the expensive path I thought these were similar to the DT 770 Pro but outclasses them in sound quality and especially bass quality

  • FOSTEX TH-X00/TR-X00 (drop.com HAD them.. but they pop up on ebay or head-fi all the time)
  • EMU TEAK http://www.emu.com/order.html
  • Fostex TH-610
  • Discontinued Denon AH-D2000 / Denon AH-D5000
Yes they are way over $250 but like you said buy once, cry once. The ones I listed above are all very easy to drive so you can also skip the amp if you like.
 

bigddybn

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So my amazon package showed up today. Bought the DT770 Pro 80ohm limited and the Creative blasterX G6.

The new headphones are... interesting. They are definitely powerful and will crank but the bass sounds distorted for lack of a better word. Not well defined but not overpowering either. I can't quite put my finger on it. Drum kicks seem lazy. Bass guitars sound like someone is holding a mic up to a recording. The sound is there, it's clear but it's just not "present" like I get on speakers. Sub bass reaches very low on these but again something is just missing. The top end sounds a bit harsh as well but I know from experience that tends to mellow over time. I'm wondering if something is genuinely defective with this pair because I plugged my $35 beater HD 202s into this amp and.....

HOLE LEE SHEET

Where the hell has this been my whole life? I knew an amp would probably make a difference with larger cans but my god this is night and day better. So much more kick. Guitars sound like I'm on stage between the stacks. Vocals are popping too. It's not just louder either. It's so much more controlled. I've got these CRANKED way past where they would normally start to distort and fall apart and I'm giving up before they do. There is no comparison between these two sets. The budget plastic set is kicking crap out of the $180 "pro" set. Gain is on high on the amp. Made sure to turn all the creative software trickery off for fair comparison but sure as hell keeping it on for normal use. The "crystallizer" setting is right up my alley and the EQ functions are just enough that I can tune to my liking.

Am I missing something here? I know the 770s are brand new and probably need some break in time (the 202s are at least 4 years old) but the difference is so far off in favor of the budget beaters. I'm definitely keeping this G6 box but I'm almost tempted to put the 770s back in the box and get something else rolling. If a $35 set sounds this good then I feel like I should be even more blown away by a ~$200 set.
 

legcramp

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Sometimes you just find a sound signature you like regardless of price. Enjoy!!
 

Nobu

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A good amp will have faster response and other characteristics will also be better than the basic amp in a PC or phone. And just like speakers will perform better with different inputs, amps will also perform different depending on what's being output and what they are driving (big cans or little buds).
 

MaZa

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They definetly should not distort and DT770 should have a lot of kick so my money is on defective pair.🤔 or severely underamplified. But regarding the presence of singers, it seems you prefer cans with more forward midrange than recessed anyway. I assumed the opposite. So something like Grado's may be your thing. As much as I like Grado sound I just hestitate to recommend them due to flimsy build quality and uncomfortable design.
 
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bigddybn

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They definetly should not distort and DT770 should have a lot of kick so my money is on defective pair.🤔 or severely underamplified. But regarding the presence of singers, it seems you prefer cans with more forward midrange than recessed anyway. I assumed the opposite. So something like Grado's may be your thing. As much as I like Grado sound I just hestitate to recommend them due to flimsy build quality and uncomfortable design.
The amp turned my 202s into a totally different animal so I have to assume it's doing it's thing. As to the vocals I was pointing out the difference, not expressing a preference. I'm definitely a "V" curve guy. Nobody listens to metal for the catchy lyrics.
 

bigddybn

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Yeah, something is broken I think. I left these overnight on one of those pink noise YouTube burn in videos last night at about half volume. Ran for about 12 hours. Wanted to be sure I was giving these a real chance. Still sounded off to me this morning so I tried a little experiment which I think speaks for itself.

The 770pro
The 202
 

MaZa

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The amp turned my 202s into a totally different animal so I have to assume it's doing it's thing. As to the vocals I was pointing out the difference, not expressing a preference. I'm definitely a "V" curve guy. Nobody listens to metal for the catchy lyrics.

Aye, but guitars are a midrange instrument so midrange presence is welcome. But it is not like DT770 is devoid of mids or something, it is just not in the forefront.
 

MaZa

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Bass Outlaws - 3 kinds of bass

No problems here. I drove my 250ohm DT770 with my Stello HP100 headphone amplifier on high gain setting, 12 a clock volume that actually felt qyite uncomforble and no distortions what so ever. Just crushing low end.

Return your set and have then exchanged.
 

bigddybn

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No problems here. I drove my 250ohm DT770 with my Stello HP100 headphone amplifier on high gain setting, 12 a clock volume that actually felt qyite uncomforble and no distortions what so ever. Just crushing low end.

Return your set and have then exchanged.
Crushing low end is exactly what I was expecting. Thanks for the confirmation.
 

cyclone3d

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I really, really, really like my Sound Blaster ZxR and Sennheiser HD630VB combination.

The frequency response is insane. Detail throughout the full range is excellent. I was using a pair of Sennheiser Momentum 1.0 over ear before I got these. I thought the Momentum 1.0 were really nice. These are at a whole different level.

There are sounds in music I listen to that I never heard with my previous headphones.

I don't like a ton of bass, but I don't like flat either. That being said, these things can get ear splitting loud and have just the right amount of bass. The volume level at around 25-32 is what I generally listen at which is a comfortable volume level.

As far as the bass vibrating my head, using Billie Eilish - You Should See Me in a Crown, I can feel the vibrations starting around 30. 100% volume makes my head hurt. Around 50% it starts getting uncomfortable.
 

Danny Dawg

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I had DT880s (32 ohm) with various amps and I could cleanly blow my brains out at the high end or the low end. Did not even wait for a break in period. The 770's should not be far from that even though we have partial-open vs closed back if I recall right. I used the 880s until the headband fell apart and the earpads wore down. You must have received a bad set. They could handle anything I threw at them.

IMO- If you want to test how good your cans are at controlling bass, try Nelly Furtado's "Say It Right"- all you need is the beginning of the song. Use a .wav file or the CD itself to make sure you get all the frequencies. The drivers/punch should be tight and not wobbling all over the place.
 

MaZa

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I had DT880s (32 ohm) with various amps and I could cleanly blow my brains out at the high end or the low end. Did not even wait for a break in period. The 770's should not be far from that even though we have partial-open vs closed back if I recall right. I used the 880s until the headband fell apart and the earpads wore down. You must have received a bad set. They could handle anything I threw at them.

IMO- If you want to test how good your cans are at controlling bass, try Nelly Furtado's "Say It Right"- all you need is the beginning of the song. Use a .wav file or the CD itself to make sure you get all the frequencies. The drivers/punch should be tight and not wobbling all over the place.

DT770 and 880 share the same drivers but where 880 is tuned flat (minus the Beyer treble spike) the 770 has the V-style sound.

And then there is the DT990 which is between those two. Actually bigddybn might want to look into that one too.
 

Algrim

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I really, really, really like my Sound Blaster ZxR and Sennheiser HD630VB combination.

I went into a store planning on getting one of the Bowers & Wilkins noise cancelling headphones and ended up walking out with the HD630VB. So far, I haven’t found a bad output driver into these cans.
 

cyclone3d

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Yeah, pretty much anything will drive them, but not everything will output the frequency range that these cans can handle.

I have a Google Pixel 3 and even with a fancy TempoTec DAC, the output is nowhere near as good as the ZxR.
 

GotNoRice

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Yeah, something is broken I think. I left these overnight on one of those pink noise YouTube burn in videos last night at about half volume. Ran for about 12 hours. Wanted to be sure I was giving these a real chance. Still sounded off to me this morning so I tried a little experiment which I think speaks for itself.

The 770pro
The 202

I've had a pair of DT770-Pro 80ohm headphones for about 15 years now and they have had that same exact issue on several occasions. Every time, it was something that had worked it's way inside and come in contact with the driver. Very odd for it to happen to a new pair, but maybe something got in there during the manufacturing process. I listen to quite a bit of Dubstep and EDM while gaming and the DT770s have never disappointed me.
 

MaZa

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I've had a pair of DT770-Pro 80ohm headphones for about 15 years now and they have had that same exact issue on several occasions. Every time, it was something that had worked it's way inside and come in contact with the driver. Very odd for it to happen to a new pair, but maybe something got in there during the manufacturing process. I listen to quite a bit of Dubstep and EDM while gaming and the DT770s have never disappointed me.

Yeah if this were used DT770 then a stray hair rattling against the driver would have been my guess, for some reason this headphone is quite suspectible to that, but this is (apparently) a new pair. Either a factory screw up OR it was a returned B-stock pair that got sold as new without rechecking.
 
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Yeah if this were used DT770 then a stray hair rattling against the driver would have been my guess, for some reason this headphone is quite suspectible to that, but this is (apparently) a new pair. Either a factory screw up OR it was a returned B-stock pair that got sold as new without rechecking.
I would be irrationally furious if I was ever to have purchased new headphones and got renewed or used ones instead. Hopefully its not the case for the OP. Not just the bait switch aspect but from a sanitary one. Used headphones are right up there with used mattresses to me.
 
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B00nie

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The idea of using used headphones is about as appealing as wearing a used condom. Not a nice thought to hold someone elses skin flakes and ear wax on your cheeks.
 

MaZa

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Jesus guys! I have bought and sold plenty of used headphones when I was searching for the "perfect headphone" years ago. Now I feel dirty and icky all over. :sick:
 

GotNoRice

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The idea of using used headphones is about as appealing as wearing a used condom. Not a nice thought to hold someone elses skin flakes and ear wax on your cheeks.

I guess you haven't figured out yet that most headphones have removable ear pads that can be replaced, and this can be done for a tiny fraction of the cost of new headphones.
 

B00nie

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I guess you haven't figured out yet that most headphones have removable ear pads that can be replaced, and this can be done for a tiny fraction of the cost of new headphones.
You'd also need to replace the cushioning on the top or disinfect if the frame is of wire type. And no, I don't like headphones in general as they fail to provide an authentic soundstage. Oh, and loud headphone listening is one of the most common causes for hearing damage also. It's very easy to listen to headphones too loud without understanding that the levels are dangerous.
 

bigddybn

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Sorry for the late follow up. Work was nuts this week.

I returned the 770s and the soundblasterX amp. Replaced them with the Phillips X2HR and a DOUK P1 amp. Also replaced the stock tubes in the amp with GE 5654W units that were cheap and recommended in several forums I came across. Pretty happy with this so far. The bottom end isn't quite as heavy as the 770s though I think it might reach a little deeper. I like the open back sound slightly more but now the wife gives me the slant eye every time she walks past my office door. No strange bass distortions though. Not sure the amp is totally needed with these but glowy tubes be glowy and I like the physical volume and tone controls.

Pretty happy so far.
 

Nobu

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Did you try the amp before swapping the tubes? Curious how different the sound profile was.
 

bigddybn

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Did you try the amp before swapping the tubes? Curious how different the sound profile was.
Not enough to give a definitive answer especially with the new cans. Once I get fully used to the new sound I'll swap them back in to compare. The new tubes were a whopping 15 bucks so I figured why the hell not?
 

MaZa

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Sorry for the late follow up. Work was nuts this week.

I returned the 770s and the soundblasterX amp. Replaced them with the Phillips X2HR and a DOUK P1 amp. Also replaced the stock tubes in the amp with GE 5654W units that were cheap and recommended in several forums I came across. Pretty happy with this so far. The bottom end isn't quite as heavy as the 770s though I think it might reach a little deeper. I like the open back sound slightly more but now the wife gives me the slant eye every time she walks past my office door. No strange bass distortions though. Not sure the amp is totally needed with these but glowy tubes be glowy and I like the physical volume and tone controls.

Pretty happy so far.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/philips/fidelio-x2hr/

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/beyerdynamic/dt-770-pro

Eh, unlikely. X2HR has 20hz at -4db (effectively inaudible in music) which is quite typical for an open back non-planar headphone, where DT770 is still on the +side and stays in audible range (as if humans could hear that low) down to 10hz. 🤯 Your DT770 was broken, don't take any impressions from that pair.

That said judging from measurements alone that Philips looks like a mighty fine headphone for the money. I just find it surprising that originally you wanted a fun pair of headphones and ended up with something that is more neutral and analytical. 😁 Congrats on the new cans and amp!
 
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