I wanna out of Creative

E

EvilNando

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
387
building a new rig on friday and I would like to finally show the finger to creative

I been looking at the Xonar with interest

can you guys recommend this for gaming?


I will go with the top of the line edition Ive seen its around 300€ or so but I was wondering if its much better than the lesser models or it is like for example the xfi where it is exactly the same card but they charge u double just because one has on board memory for audio and shit like that , but esentially the hardware is the same and the sound is the same?


thanks
 
Your big new rig probably has onboard HD audio. Thats pretty good right there, unless you're hurting for FPS. Which is unlikely.
 
yeah the board cames with and addon x-fi but like I said I dont want anything from those guys

do you honestly believe that onboard audio are up par with those big audio cards??

have I been missing something? or on board audio has progressed that much?
 
EvilNando said:
building a new rig on friday and I would like to finally show the finger to creative

I been looking at the Xonar with interest

can you guys recommend this for gaming?


I will go with the top of the line edition Ive seen its around 300€ or so but I was wondering if its much better than the lesser models or it is like for example the xfi where it is exactly the same card but they charge u double just because one has on board memory for audio and shit like that , but esentially the hardware is the same and the sound is the same?


thanks
Click to expand...

all of your claims regarding X-Fi are inaccurate, so are your assertions of what a "high end" card "should be"

I'd be happy to explain more, if you can maintain some level of civility about it



mrybczyn said:
Your big new rig probably has onboard HD audio. Thats pretty good right there, unless you're hurting for FPS. Which is unlikely.
Click to expand...

agree with everything here - FPS gains are minimal at best (its like having PhysX, you get more features and less impact for them)

EvilNando said:
yeah the board cames with and addon x-fi but like I said I dont want anything from those guys

do you honestly believe that onboard audio are up par with those big audio cards??

have I been missing something? or on board audio has progressed that much?
Click to expand...


your bias against Creative is senseless, you've provided no real reason for it, and there is no objective reason for it; but I doubt you'll listen to any sort of reason here because you just need to vent/whine about something

but I'll sure try:

onboard audio from the last 2-3 years vs any soundcard worth its salt (what do you mean "those big audio cards"?) will be inaudibly different unless theres a defect with one of the devices, if you feel the need to claim the contrary I would like you to submit to an ABX test before you squawk at me; this is not based on "what I believe", but based on specs and numbers (oh how much of a renegade I am, I'm actually using numbers)

processing features wise, onboard audio will be just fine, especially on a high end board, as it should include things like DDL support for digital out and the like

there is no (I repeat NO) advantage for a fancy multi-media card unless you need some feature it offers (like DDL, HDMI features, headphone amp, etc); if you have a top end motherboard it should have all of the software/digital stuff as the MM soundcards, so unless you need some I/O features that it isn't giving you stick with it

if you do need some I/O features, identify what they are, and find something that satisfies that

there is no reason to "max out" unless your goal is eCock (TM) (and as anyone who's posted around here for any length of time should know, I will never give advice in those situations)
 
I'd say creatives attempts at crushing 3rd party driver support and the driver fiasco from 2 years ago is enough for me. Fuck creative.
 
Hmm, just a comment. No intent of starting a flame war but why all the hate for Creative ?. Yes their software support is no where near where it was back in the day. Remember my first Soundblaster AWE 64. was freaking awsome. But I digress.

I've not had any issues with Creative cards or drivers since I went with Intel chipset motherboards. Love my Xi Fi Titanium Fatality Pro card and have had zero issues with it or drivers.
 
Kangg said:
Yes their software support is no where near where it was back in the day. Remember my first Soundblaster AWE 64. was freaking awsome. But I digress.
Click to expand...

The hardware wasn't that great though. I think the older Gravis Ultrasound or the Roland MT-32 are better examples of great products.
 
I really don't quite understand these posts as of late about onboard sound being just as good as dedicated sound cards.Even from just moving to the modestly priced HT Omega striker i heard a large inprovement through my headphones and even my crappy z2300s.Maybe in motherboards that are priced in the $200-$300 range sound just as good but I've yet to hear anyone that has switched to a sound card say that there was no difference in sound.
 
DoomD said:
I really don't quite understand these posts as of late about onboard sound being just as good as dedicated sound cards.Even from just moving to the modestly priced HT Omega striker i heard a large inprovement through my headphones and even my crappy z2300s.Maybe in motherboards that are priced in the $200-$300 range sound just as good but I've yet to hear anyone that has switched to a sound card say that there was no difference in sound.
Click to expand...

it usually is with expensive boards, thats kind of how it trickles down

look at some of the MSI, Asus, Intel Extreme, and eVGA boards with premium onboard audio, features wise they're usually 1:1 with your Striker aside from DTS tech, and are posting 108-115 dB SNRs and equally low noise floors

for example my DX48BT2 is more or less 1:1 with Montego DDL, Striker, etc
it was also $250 new, whereas the DFI it replaced (which was like $90 new) had awful onboard sound with almost no features

I'm not sure if I would say the extra price is justified for only the onboard audio, but it is "getting there" in quality (compare to 10 years ago :eek:)


as far as "Creative driver fiaso they're evil screw them" -> so when a company enforces its legal rights its a crime?
 
Oh ok well thats makes alot of sense then why the onboard would be just as good.Thanks for explaining.
 
DoomD said:
Oh ok well thats makes alot of sense then why the onboard would be just as good.Thanks for explaining.
Click to expand...

oh no problem :)

I don't mean to make onboard sound as "always as good", just like a soundcard isn't "always better", but on the whole a high end mainboard will have some pretty decent kit built-in

and since OP is mentioning 300 euro soundcards (which is like $410 US right now), I'm guessing a fairly high end mainboard isn't out of the question (or he may already have one) - so he probably already has said "pretty decent kit" (he didn't mention which board though, so I can't say this with any absolute certainty, there are $1000 US boards out there with 2.0 stereo sound (Granted, they're for workstations, but still, money isn't everything ;)))
 
I'm annoyed at creative because I bought the usb surround sound from them and they never made the control panel for win7. Sure I get the basic driver, but I liked control of the features and prob would not have spent extra for it over just using on board if I had realized I wouldn't keep the software. Since they quickly ported everything else, I'm left to believe they dropped mine so that next time I would know to buy one of their pricier cards. That annoys me.
 
PhantmShado said:
I'm annoyed at creative because I bought the usb surround sound from them and they never made the control panel for win7. Sure I get the basic driver, but I liked control of the features and prob would not have spent extra for it over just using on board if I had realized I wouldn't keep the software. Since they quickly ported everything else, I'm left to believe they dropped mine so that next time I would know to buy one of their pricier cards. That annoys me.
Click to expand...

Do you have the X-Fi or the Live! version? My friend has the the X-Fi version and 7 x64 and he seems to have an X-Fi control panel, I'm not sure if its the same one you're referencing though.
 
obobski said:
as far as "Creative driver fiaso they're evil screw them" -> so when a company enforces its legal rights its a crime?
Click to expand...

obobski said:
I'd be happy to explain more, if you can maintain some level of civility about it
Click to expand...

Its time for you to be civil. The man posted his reason for not liking Creative. You may not agree with his reason, but to him it is still a valid one.

My reason for chiming in is that I am very curious on the options out there. I have moved from sound card to sound card and settled on a personally modified Xfi Elite Pro (more than a couple of years ago). Its nice to read that onboard audio is an option again. May be a factor for me in deciding a suitable MB in the future.

I used to need all the connectivity it provided (with the out board box) but now I all I need / want is excellent headphone output WITHOUT going down the outboard DAC/AMP route.

As a side, I am getting more audio interference these days without making any changes to my system. I know it is electrical (of course) as opposed to software. When ever I drag my feet I can hear the headphones pop a little. It is reproducible (every single time).
 
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I run an X-Fi titanium pro with the black EMI shield and in 7 x64 I've had no issues. I had an X-Fi xtrememusic (yes it's a real x-fi) in XP and had no issues. I keep hearing about the fantom SCP and I've personally had to wait for newer drivers to come out yes. But hate them no I don't. Sound cards to me are still valid purchases unlike dedicated NICs unless you're in a server environment like I have at work and even then sometimes we run the onboard NICs.

People talk about bad software. The software on my x-fi I believe is very nice the creative "console launcher." The last time I even tried onboard was in 06 on a asus A8V deluxe motherboard with a RealTek chip and it was ok software but no were near as comprehensive as Creatives audio console.
 
Liver said:
Its time for you to be civil. The man posted his reason for not liking Creative. You may not agree with his reason, but to him it is still a valid one.
Click to expand...

I was responding to multiple posters there, quite civil imho
sorry if it didn't seem that way

My reason for chiming in is that I am very curious on the options out there. I have moved from sound card to sound card and settled on a personally modified Xfi Elite Pro (more than a couple of years ago). Its nice to read that onboard audio is an option again. May be a factor for me in deciding a suitable MB in the future.

I used to need all the connectivity it provided (with the out board box) but now I all I need / want is excellent headphone output WITHOUT going down the outboard DAC/AMP route.

As a side, I am getting more audio interference these days without making any changes to my system. I know it is electrical (of course) as opposed to software. When ever I drag my feet I can hear the headphones pop a little. It is reproducible (every single time).
Click to expand...

Essence ST/STX perhaps? (make your own thread and you'll get a lot more replies, at least I'm fairly sure you will)
 
I am sure that someone will correct me but if you play games positional audio is the way to go and you are not going to get that with onboard sound.

of course will all the console ports now we can probably give up on that now as well.
 
DoomD said:
I really don't quite understand these posts as of late about onboard sound being just as good as dedicated sound cards.Even from just moving to the modestly priced HT Omega striker i heard a large inprovement through my headphones and even my crappy z2300s.Maybe in motherboards that are priced in the $200-$300 range sound just as good but I've yet to hear anyone that has switched to a sound card say that there was no difference in sound.
Click to expand...

Easy, if you are on some crappy logitech speakers then by all means keep onboard sound as it would be hard to tell the difference.
You need to have good speakers to be able to enjoy the benefits of a good sound card otherwise it is pretty much wasting money.
I am not been a snob, just stating the reality.
If you cannot hear the difference between an x-fi prelude and on board sound on good speakers and electronics then you have some issues. :D
Of course this means using the analog outputs for the cards not the digital ones.
 
All the audio processing in modern games and software is run through software processing. This is a better more universal way to do it and gives unlimited control to the software creator and allows unlimited effects. This is how audio will stay.

The audio processors now DO NOT MATTER

However the onboard DAC on mainboards is usually of low quality and alot of electrical noise is heard through onboard audio and that is the only reason for add in sound cards. Plus audio cards usually have higher quality amps for headphones.
 
Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I thoroughly dislike the Realtek HD Audio that came on both my most recent motherboards from ASUS.

I use Teamspeak 2 a lot and there is something wrong with getting the microphone to work correctly.. it's like no matter what the setting is in the mixer, you can't get the microphone input to only input the microphone or not to play the microphone back through the speakers. Lots of reverb and echoing and things.

Anyways... I hate it. I went as far to pull my old SB Live card out of mothballs to put in my son's gaming computer to not have to use the Realtek HD Audio it had. In my own PC, I have the X-Fi on Vista 64 and never had the huge driver issues I see posted. But anyways....that subject is a 65 page forum thread all on its own.

It seems these "hardware" based soundcards are a thing of the past as far as gaming is concerned, if you believe that post about what DICE said and how they are doing sound all in software so it's better. (read: It's a console port and we are not bothering with adding in hardware APU support) The sound in the beta the last time I tried it a week ago was not nearly as good as BF2/2142 in Ultra High X-Fi mode.
 
brandinb said:
All the audio processing in modern games and software is run through software processing. This is a better more universal way to do it and gives unlimited control to the software creator and allows unlimited effects. This is how audio will stay.

The audio processors now DO NOT MATTER

However the onboard DAC on mainboards is usually of low quality and alot of electrical noise is heard through onboard audio and that is the only reason for add in sound cards. Plus audio cards usually have higher quality amps for headphones.
Click to expand...
I disagree about it being a BETTER way of doing it but in any case, I did not mention processing at all because of that same reason although we can still use Alchemy.
In any case, this phrase caught my attention:
However the onboard DAC on mainboards is usually of low quality and alot of electrical noise is heard through onboard audio and that is the only reason for add in sound cards. Plus audio cards usually have higher quality amps for headphones.
Click to expand...
More than ONLY I would say its a MAJOR reason.
Again, it depends on what you have for speakers.
Bad speakers, it does not matter but good speakers will do the old Garbage in Garbage out deal.
 
Haven't tried for 2 years now, but has onboard gotten any better? Last time I tried it there was a quiet hum when I put my headphones on with no music. No hum with a real sound card. Pure complete silence.
 
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