I sold a 680 SC on [H], is this just?

[Ali Man]

This has been amicably resolved please see the last page for details




I sold a GTX 680 in the following thread to a member i.e. '5150Joker':

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1749374&highlight=


When he got the card, he complained that one of the PCB screws were completely worn off and may not be able to be removed. Well yes, this card was under water and one of the screws may have been chipped off, but it wasn't till the extent that the screw couldn't be removed or reused, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to even install it.

Anyways, I offer this guy to change all the screws on his 680 with new screws that I have of a backplate or I could just send him that one screw in replacement. He said that it sounds good. So just when I was going to send that screw, he messages me and says that he sent the card to EVGA as they would change all the screws for free, then I thought, oh well, good for him.

Today I just got a message from him saying that the 680 that I sold him was the reference version whereas I sold him a fraudulent SC version. Well my interpretation of SC was basically that I had reflashed it to the SC bios and hence I renamed my FS thread as 'GTX 680 SC'. It actually has higher stock clocks than even a 'Gigabyte GTX 680 SOC'. I told him that he was making it a big deal out of nothing, even though I hadn't particularly mentioned that it was the reference version, that's why I had used the term 'reflashed'. Because if you think about it, why would anyone reflash an already GTX 680 SC with another SC bios, makes no sense right?

Anyways, the card works great, I've helped him out in every way that I can, but he in return started being disrespectful to me which is something that I really don't appreciate as he was asking for a partial refund, but which I denied.

He said that he'll open a thread on the forums and let the community decide. I thought that I'd rather do him a favor. So guys, is this just? or have I really played this guy? seeing that my heat and all other ratings speak otherwise.

 

[dinlee23]

if you put in the description that its a card with a reflashed SC bios then no its not. if you forgot to then yes its your fault.

 

[P4rD0nM3]

You have to disclose everything man. Hehehe. Don't worry you'll learn. Did you offer him a refund? Just tell him give the card back and then just give him his money back. Problem solve. If you sold that card to me I'd feel the same way like I've been tricked. To some (me included) it doesn't matter if it clocks better than an original SC. It's still not an SC.

 

[Ali Man]

Thank you for the reply. And it is clearly there in the description.

Another update:

Basically when he sent the card to EVGA, they rather sent him a completely different card reference 680, instead of just replacing the screws. I think that it's EVGA's fault rather than him blaming it on me.

 

[Hagrid]

If its a reference card and you didn't state you reflashed it, then yes, its still a reference card.

You should of stated that and counts as fraud IMO.

Like selling a 6870 that is really a 6850 that's been flashed with the 6870 bios.
Its still a 6850!

 

[P4rD0nM3]

When EVGA got the card they probably checked what card it is and it returned as a non SC version. So they just sent back a non SC version. Still not EVGA's fault. If it was in your description then it's the buyer's responsibility to read it though it would be 'nice' if you let him know before the actual payment so he knows what he's going to get.

 

[That's_Corporate]

Seems like an honest mistake on your part, but these days with so many bad sellers out there you can't blame him for feeling lied to.

Do right by him, refund his money, take the card back, and sell it without the "SC" part.

 

[Ali Man]

I accept the mistake of not mentioning these four numbers '2680' in my listing, but again, it's not like I sold him a GTX 650 ti. I told him that it would have costed him cheaper if he sent the card back to me instead of spending $15 with RMA'ing it to EVGA and getting a slower card.

 

[GotNoRice]

Today I just got a message from him saying that the 680 that I sold him was the reference version whereas I sold him a fraudulent SC version. Well my interpretation of SC was basically that I had reflashed it to the SC bios and hence I renamed my FS thread as 'GTX 680 SC'. It actually has higher stock clocks than even a 'Gigabyte GTX 680 SOC'. I told him that he was making it a big deal out of nothing, even though I hadn't particularly mentioned that it was the reference version, that's why I had used the term 'reflashed'. Because if you think about it, why would anyone reflash an already GTX 680 SC with another SC bios, makes no sense right?

Bolding mine.

It sounds like you sold a reference card that you re-flashed as SC, and weren't initially up-front about it in the thread.

I'm currently running 2 EVGA 680 SCs in SLI. If I got a 3rd I'd want to get another SC. If I ended up getting a reference card that someone had flashed to SC, I'd be pissed.

 

[Ali Man]

If its a reference card and you didn't state you reflashed it, then yes, its still a reference card.

You should of stated that and counts as fraud IMO.

Like selling a 6870 that is really a 6850 that's been flashed with the 6870 bios.
Its still a 6850!

It was clearly stated in my listing.

 

[Ali Man]

I'm currently running 2 EVGA 680 SCs in SLI. If I got a 3rd I'd want to get another SC. If I ended up getting a reference card that someone had flashed to SC, I'd be pissed.

Well that's clearly just you man.

 

[Ajiki-kun]

Product: EVGA GTX 680 SC
Condition: Used for less than a week in SLi, roughly. The condition is as good as new.
Accessories: Just the card itself would be included.
OC Potential: Reflashed with the SC Bios with 150% Power Limit and stock boost clock at 1228Mhz on air. Under water, it runs at 1293Mhz with the 2.12V Bios fully stable.

It was the fact that you called it a 680 SC rather than a reference 680 that you "reflashed." SC is a different SKU and the official designation that the company branded it, not you.

I will give you that it's a minor difference, but he's not making a big deal out of nothing, It was misrepresented, and I would want that to be acknowledged if I were the buyer.

 

[GotNoRice]

Well that's clearly just you man.

Protip: Re-flashed doesn't mean flashed with a bios from a different card. You advertised the card as an SC but that isn't what you sold. If you think that is acceptable, you're in for a rude awakening.

 

[Rattle]

If I was sold a card like that you better have told me before money changed hands.. Hey Rattle this is a reference card but it's running a sc BIOS.

Honesty is most important... I have sold tons of video cards on here and on OCF and I would never pull a stunt like that.

Your listing should have been for a reference card flashed with sc bios and nothing else.
Listing it as a sc card is bullshit.

It doesn't matter if the only difference between the cards is a bios.

It's dishonest plain and simple.

Now if he knew and now he's playing games shame on him.

 

[KrAzYaZnFLiP808]

Product: EVGA GTX 680 SC
Condition: Used for less than a week in SLi, roughly. The condition is as good as new.
Accessories: Just the card itself would be included.
OC Potential: Reflashed with the SC Bios with 150% Power Limit and stock boost clock at 1228Mhz on air. Under water, it runs at 1293Mhz with the 2.12V Bios fully stable.
Pics: Pic1

Price: Sold

Please note:
- No Trades
- No Returns
- The prices represent shipping within USA only.
- Payment through PayPal
- No faulty product is being sold, all have been tested and confirmed functionality.
- I have feedback on heatware, ebay and pakgamers.

Thanks for looking.

I have read the listing, and it states it has been reflashed with SC Bios. It you dont really look for it, it could be safe to assume that you were actually getting a SC version. But, like OP said, who would reflash a SC bios, to another SC bios.

 

[Zepher]

It was clearly stated in my listing.

I see everything in your posting listing it as a 680 SC.
Reflashed with the SC BIOS doesn't say that it was a Reference card Flashed to SC Specs, just that it was reflashed.

 

[Ali Man]

It was the fact that you called it a 680 SC rather than a reference 680 that you "reflashed." SC is a different SKU and the official designation that the company branded it, not you.

I will give you that it's a minor difference, but he's not making a big deal out of nothing, It was misrepresented, and I would want that to be acknowledged if I were the buyer.

I understand and can only learn from it with selling in the future.

Protip: Re-flashed doesn't mean flashed with a bios from a different card. You advertised the card as an SC but that isn't what you sold. If you think that is acceptable, you're in for a rude awakening.

That's exactly what it means and I sold a card a hell lot better than SC in terms of core clocks. Go and check out SC's boost clocks and check out mine.

 

[GotNoRice]

That's exactly what it means and I sold a card a hell lot better than SC in terms of core clocks. Go and check out SC's boost clocks and check out mine.

What the card was when it left the factory and what you are able to mod it into isn't the same thing. People who flashed their 6950s into 6970s would be expected to disclose that in the listing also, and not simply sell it as a 6970.

 

[Ali Man]

I even apologized for that, but I'm not gonna do it again and again. May be my interpretation of SC was wrong. But again, when I wrote reflashed, well then why would anyone reflash an SC card with an already SC bios, but anyways, this is the first time that it's happened.

 

[Ajiki-kun]

Because if you think about it, why would anyone reflash an already GTX 680 SC with another SC bios, makes no sense right?

Product: EVGA GTX 680 SC
Condition: Used for less than a week in SLi, roughly. The condition is as good as new.
Accessories: Just the card itself would be included.
OC Potential: Reflashed with the SC Bios with 150% Power Limit and stock boost clock at 1228Mhz on air. Under water, it runs at 1293Mhz with the 2.12V Bios fully stable.
Pics: Pic1

Price: Sold

Please note:
- No Trades
- No Returns
- The prices represent shipping within USA only.
- Payment through PayPal
- No faulty product is being sold, all have been tested and confirmed functionality.
- I have feedback on heatware, ebay and pakgamers.

Thanks for looking.

I have read the listing, and it states it has been reflashed with SC Bios. It you dont really look for it, it could be safe to assume that you were actually getting a SC version. But, like OP said, who would reflash a SC bios, to another SC bios.

You're right. You woudn't normally flash a SC BIOS to another SC BIOS. That's what the buyer would assume too. But, because it's possible to read this line:

OC Potential: Reflashed with the SC Bios with 150% Power Limit and stock boost clock at 1228Mhz on air. Under water, it runs at 1293Mhz with the 2.12V Bios fully stable.

as:

OC Potential: Reflashed with the SC Bios, but with 150% Power Limit and stock boost clock at 1228Mhz on air. Under water, it runs at 1293Mhz with the 2.12V Bios fully stable.

and then one wouldn't even think to make the assumption that it wasn't an SC to begin with, because they read it further as this:

OC Potential: Reflashed with the original SC Bios, but added with 150% Power Limit and stock boost clock at 1228Mhz on air. Under water, it runs at 1293Mhz with the 2.12V Bios fully stable.

That's one reason why you would flash an SC to another SC - to get higher default BIOS clocks.

And it all has to do with that main title that called it an SC, not "modified SC," or "reflashed SC", but just "SC."

Buyer could of course have been diligent and asked "Hey, is this not an SC even though you said it is?" but in retrospect, that would have been silly and over-suspicious.

EDIT: OP, I am not putting the blame on you for the card being sent back to EVGA, however. That was not your fault, just sheer misfortune. I would ask the buyer what would make things right and try and reach a compromise.

 

[justin_43]

I would be pissed if I was the buyer. You need to tell the buyer EVERYTHING. You really should have flashed the card back to the stock BIOS and told him about the broken screw. If I was the buyer I'd want a full refund. Especially since EVGA is going to deny the RMA for the card once they see the BIOS has been flashed. Flashing a BIOS voids the warranty. Why would you even bother when you could just OC the card with Precision or Afterburner?

 

[glck23]

I even apologized for that, but I'm not gonna do it again and again. May be my interpretation of SC was wrong. But again, when I wrote reflashed, well then why would anyone reflash an SC card with an already SC bios, but anyways, this is the first time that it's happened.

Seems like you are avoiding your responsibility. Even if it wasn't your intention to be deceitful, that is what happened. Refund him the difference of an SC to a non SC. Final.

 

[Ali Man]

Because it's possible to read this line:



as:



and then one wouldn't even think to make the assumption that it wasn't an SC to begin with, because they read it further as this:



That's one reason why you would flash an SC to another SC - to get higher default BIOS clocks.

And it all has to do with that main title that called it an SC, not "modified SC," or "reflashed SC", but just "SC."

Buyer could of course have been diligent and asked "Hey, is this not an SC even though you said it is?" but in retrospect, that would have been silly and over-suspicious.

EDIT: OP, I am not putting the blame on you for the card being sent back to EVGA, however. That was not your fault, just sheer misfortune. I would ask the buyer what would make things right and try and reach a compromise.

Out of all the replies in this thread, I respect yours the most as it makes perfect sense. I don't deny anything of what you've mentioned. However, it's too late for reaching a compromise when talking to a disrespectful person who doesn't even wanna hear anything you have to say with a clear conscience.

He left me my first negative heat which is non sense.

 

[Warrior]

Hey guys! I just bought a '88 Camaro Z28!!! It has a V8 in it... SO IT's A Z28!!!


BTW, What are all these RS badges?....

 

[Ajiki-kun]

Out of all the replies in this thread, I respect yours the most as it makes perfect sense. I don't deny anything of what you've mentioned. However, it's too late for reaching a compromise when talking to a disrespectful person who doesn't even wanna hear anything you have to say with a clear conscience.

He left me my first negative heat which is non sense.

Well, if you are at least acknowledging your part in this, then I can accept that you're now not dealing with the buyer on grounds of them being disrespectful and unpleasant. It would be like a customer dealing with returns at a store that had a valid case but cussed out the representative out of anger.

Still...

I would still make an offer, even through gritted teeth. It would be the bigger thing to do, with you as the seller. Plus, Heat can be retracted, can't it?

(btw, my original post you quoted was slightly edited for clarity)

 

[Ali Man]

Well, if you are at least acknowledging your part in this, then I can accept that you're now not dealing with the buyer on grounds of them being disrespectful and unpleasant. It would be like a customer dealing with returns at a store that had a valid case but cussed out the representative out of anger.

Still...

I would still make an offer, even through gritted teeth. It would be the bigger thing to do, with you as the seller. Plus, Heat can be retracted, can't it?

(btw, my original post you quoted was slightly edited for clarity)

Heat can be retracted, but now he's opened a PayPal seller dispute for $35! whereas the difference between SC and reference is only $20, is this guy mad?

 

[Ultima99]

This is cut and dry. You called it an EVGA 680 SC but that is not what EVGA says it is and they made the card. The BIOS you put on it makes no difference, anyone, especially someone on [H] would easily be able to overclock it. Yes, you mentioned it was reflashed but you were not specific in what you meant. The most up front and honest thing would to have sold it as "EVGA 680 flashed to SC BIOS". I can see why your buyer is angry.

 

[txsizzler]

Heat can be retracted, but now he's opened a PayPal seller dispute for $35! whereas the difference between SC and reference is only $20, is this guy mad?

I would accept the $35 loss, apologize profusely to the buyer, see if maybe he will at least retract the neg feedback (make it a $40 loss if need be), and call it a lesson learned about representation. Even though the buyer didn't have to resort to insults, we are only hearing YOUR side of the story, and not his.

Even so, buyers on here expect honesty and integrity from other [H] members, as we stand out from other sellers. Do the right thing, if not for yourself, for the integrity of this site.

 

[Iching]

"May be my interpretation of SC was wrong."

Did you really say that? You sound like a guy who works at a car dealership. I would be pissed if I was a buyer.

Refund him $35 but it seems you are penny pinching and even now you are unwilling to compromise. Be thankful he does not want a full refund.

 

[Ajiki-kun]

I would accept the $35 loss, apologize profusely to the buyer, see if maybe he will at least retract the neg feedback (make it a $40 loss if need be), and call it a lesson learned about representation. Even though the buyer didn't have to resort to insults, we are only hearing YOUR side of the story, and not his.

Even so, buyers on here expect honesty and integrity from other [H] members, as we stand out from other sellers. Do the right thing, if not for yourself, for the integrity of this site.

Eh.

I would apologize profusely and offer $20, or return and refund. This doesn't need to drag out more than it should, especially if the seller shows a willingness to cooperate. The buyer jumped the gun on his own before waiting for OP to get back to him on the screws (even if that only became costly because of the initial misrepresentation)

 

[Bomber18]

I think the buyer is absolutely right here. You claim the hardware is something else in the title and no where in the post make clear the actual model number. You can't build a hackntosh and sell it as a mac.

I'd suggest offering the buyer a full refund and if it's too late for that know you deserve the bad feedback and learn to be more truthful in your listings.

 

[LOCO LAPTOP]

In your FS thread AND this thread you labeled it as a "SC" in the title. OP you are in the wrong here.

 

[txsizzler]

Eh.

I would apologize profusely and offer $20. This doesn't need to drag out more than it should, especially if the seller shows a willingness to cooperate.

So much for customer service. (Sigh)

You did also read there was a screw broke that was NOT disclosed at the time of sale, on top of the fact that the card was advertised fraudulently? I think $35-40 loss in this case is MORE than fair. The buyer probably could have asked for a LOT more.

 

[5150Joker]

If you check his original post, he doesn't mention its a reflashed stock 680. Instead, he lists it as: Product: EVGA 680 SC. Then he goes on to mention it has a flashed bios with added 150% power limit. Does that seem kosher to you guys? He also failed to mention that the screw was completely stripped so removing the heatsink was no longer an option.

At that point when I contacted him, he offered to remove the screw but would make me pay for shipping to him. Instead, I figured it would be easier to RMA the card to EVGA and that is exactly what I did. I received the replacement today which is a stock EVGA 680 (non-SC) and then proceeded to PM him that he did not in fact sell me a SC as stated in his description.

He brushed it off and tried blaming me saying that I should have "known" that it was a flashed 680? How could any reasonable person discern that from his deceptive original post? I then asked that he give me a partial refund and he refused on the basis that again, I should have known better.

I then started a PayPal dispute with him (for a partial refund) and left him negative Heatware since he was not honest in his dealings with me nor did he offer a partial refund after knowingly sending a flashed product. Right now I'm stuck with a vanilla 680 and another card that is a 680 SC. This particular 680 will not take the SC vbios, it throws up a jumbled screen and only works with the stock 680 bios. Do you guys think that's fair? What if down the line I needed to RMA the card and EVGA would have rejected it on the basis that it was a flashed card? This guy knowingly lied and then tried placing the blame on me. The funny part is he said that he had a feeling EVGA might send me a new card and that I should have known better and sent him the card instead, does that make any sense whatsoever?

He says I was being disrespectful? If anything, I kept my cool with him and didn't even ask that he issue a partial refund for the cost of shipping to EVGA. In fact, I intended to leave him positive heatware after I received the card from EVGA. To my surprise, it was a vanilla 680 and that is when I asked he give a partial refund and he flat out refused and blamed me for it.

Edit: I'm more than willing to accept a full refund and he can have this card back. I wanted to purchase an SC, not a vanilla 680 flashed with an SC bios.

 

[Ajiki-kun]

So much for customer service. (Sigh)

You did also read there was a screw broke that was NOT disclosed at the time of sale, on top of the fact that the card was advertised fraudulently? I think $35-40 loss in this case is MORE than fair. The buyer probably could have asked for a LOT more.

...

$25?

Granted, I don't sell broken shit myself. =)

Anyway, I've said my piece, hopefully there's some sort of resolution that leaves both parties less pissed.

 

[Phishy714]

While the OP did mention that it was a reflashed SC, it doesn't actually tell you what it was reflashed to..

You could have gone to an MSI bios or a Gigabyte bios to get higher clocks, and flashed it back. In the end, you put up for sale an EVGA 680 SC, and what the customer received is a reference EVGA GTX 680 that has "technically" had its warranty voided because of the bios flash to SC.

While I am 100% that the OP was not trying to be deceitful, the unfortunate fact is that the buyer did not receive exactly what was listed - and that is always the seller's fault, unfortunately.

 

[Metrocall]

I'm gonna side with the buyer on this one.

 

[Ali Man]

Edit: I'm more than willing to accept a full refund and he can have this card back. I wanted to purchase an SC, not a vanilla 680 flashed with an SC bios.

Keep all the untruthfulness on a side, just like I said:

1) Misrepresentation of the Title name. I thought that if it had the SC bios and then basically it should be termed as an SC card, whereas according to most of you all, it clearly doesn't. What I did wrong? I didn't mention 'clearly' enough that it was reflashed from the stock version and as everyone else is mentioning, I'm not hiding from this mistake.

However, it really didn't make sense for you to even contact EVGA upon anything because of the fact that it was a 'reflashed' card to even begin with. And I don't think that EVGA would have given warranty for a reflashed card or at least not to the best of my knowledge, but rather a better chance if you'd flashed it back to its original bios.

The reason why I denied a refund was because of the same reason that he should have contacted me instead of going to EVGA for the reason I've mentioned above. Replacement? How does that even make sense where I wouldn't even be getting the card that I sold you in the first place? And that also you've been messing around with it's bios and not getting to work properly. Lets just say that it became a NO-GO not only when you contacted EVGA, but rather when you went behind my back and left me negative heat and opened up a dispute.

We could have surely gotten through this, but YOU chose this stupid and difficult path by making an immature move, putting my faults on a side.

 

[Ali Man]

While the OP did mention that it was a reflashed SC, it doesn't actually tell you what it was reflashed to..

You could have gone to an MSI bios or a Gigabyte bios to get higher clocks, and flashed it back. In the end, you put up for sale an EVGA 680 SC, and what the customer received is a reference EVGA GTX 680 that has "technically" had its warranty voided because of the bios flash to SC.

While I am 100% that the OP was not trying to be deceitful, the unfortunate fact is that the buyer did not receive exactly what was listed - and that is always the seller's fault, unfortunately.

I'm not trying to defend myself in this reply, but on OCN, only one bios holds these clocks and with the power limit to 150%:

EVGA GTX680 SuperClock
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to hide)
Modded firmware
GPU Clock - 1111
Boost Clock - 1176
Memory - 1700
Power target - 150%
Fan Speed - 0% to 100%

 

[5150Joker]

Keep all the untruthfulness on a side, just like I said:

1) Misrepresentation of the Title name. I thought that if it had the SC bios and then basically it should be termed as an SC card, whereas according to most of you all, it clearly doesn't. What I did wrong? I didn't mention 'clearly' enough that it was reflashed from the stock version and as everyone else is mentioning, I'm not hiding from this mistake.

However, it really didn't make sense for you to even contact EVGA upon anything because of the fact that it was a 'reflashed' card to even begin with. And I don't think that EVGA would have given warranty for a reflashed card or at least not to the best of my knowledge, but rather a better chance if you'd flashed it back to its original bios.

The reason why I denied a refund was because of the same reason that he should have contacted me instead of going to EVGA for the reason I've mentioned above. Replacement? How does that even make sense where I wouldn't even be getting the card that I sold you in the first place? And that also you've been messing around with it's bios and not getting to work properly. Lets just say that it became a NO-GO not only when you contacted EVGA, but rather when you went behind my back and left me negative heat and opened up a dispute.

We could have surely gotten through this, but YOU chose this stupid and difficult path by making an immature move, putting my faults on a side.

First of all, the card works fine and is on the stock EVGA 680 bios it came with (I could make a video showing this easily). It does not however take a 680 SC bios. Secondly, I could post the entire PM conversation here but I'm not sure if HardOCP forums allow that or not. You know full well you were unwilling to compromise and flat out refused a partial refund.

And again, why wouldn't I RMA the card to EVGA? Did you mention it was stock 680 and not an SC? Nope. So what you originally mailed me and what I got back is immaterial, the fact is that both cards were vanilla 680 thus you should accept the vanilla 680 back and offer a full refund. Everyone here is calling you on it because what you did was deceptive and you're still refusing to own up to it and instead are placing the blame on me. I'm not a mind reader and no reasonable person should expect that.

Edit: NO-GO? Fine, we'll let PayPal decide. I've decided to escalate and ask for a full refund. There is obviously no reasoning with someone that refuses to acknowledge their mistake and take responsibility for it.