I setup a mansion with 4 different accesspoints. Did I do it wrong?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thanks for the responses everyone. I will try the a single SSID with staggered channels the next time I am there.

green91, I was not aware of the POE aspect of the UniFI products. I have already tested the house on a previous trip using a POE adapter and the performance at this house abysmal. The house is already prewired for data, will I have no choice but to use POE to get the UniFi connected? Ive read that the pro model has two ethernet ports but I cant find any details as to how it works.

Also why is it that this product has been out for two years, yet I cant find a single review on it?
 
+Plague+ said:
Thanks for the responses everyone. I will try the a single SSID with staggered channels the next time I am there.

green91, I was not aware of the POE aspect of the UniFI products. I have already tested the house on a previous trip using a POE adapter and the performance at this house abysmal. The house is already prewired for data, will I have no choice but to use POE to get the UniFi connected? Ive read that the pro model has two ethernet ports but I cant find any details as to how it works.

Also why is it that this product has been out for two years, yet I cant find a single review on it?
Click to expand...

you not google hard enough.:D Just to warn you, make sure all your cables are correctly terminated and working 100% and pass, before you go and just plug poe devices in. Or you are going to be burning equipment out left and right..
 
Not sure if something like this:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10521&cs_id=1052102&p_id=8744&seq=1&format=2
would be up your client's alley as they are cheap and seem to have decent reviews. Never used them myself, looking at picking up one or two to see how they do perform. I'm no wireless guru but most everyone has told me to get the UniFI product:
http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-UniFi-Enterprise-System/dp/B005EORRBW
That is about $60 each which is also a great price.

Personally I don't know much about either, not many people have tried the monoprice ones but many many many people have tried the UniFi ones for $20 more/unit.

Good luck.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
/usr/home said:
Lol. Don't even consider mono price ones when a unifi ap is only $60.
Click to expand...

Hey, you never know how stingy the client is specially if you offer them a cheaper product that may or may not perform. Since this guy wanted to spend 300 on a system with no dead spots then this might be that client @_o .
 
Karandras69 said:
Hey, you never know how stingy the client is specially if you offer them a cheaper product that may or may not perform. Since this guy wanted to spend 300 on a system with no dead spots then this might be that client @_o .
Click to expand...

You buy a cheap POS ap, you will have plenty of problems. They can afford a mansion but they can't spend a few $$ on a proper setup ?
 
Karandras69 said:
Hey, you never know how stingy the client is specially if you offer them a cheaper product that may or may not perform. Since this guy wanted to spend 300 on a system with no dead spots then this might be that client @_o .
Click to expand...

For 300 he could get 3 Unifi APs for 60 a piece and have $120 left over for labour. Not sure what your labour rate, but an hour to an hour and a half is reasonable to setup 3 APs if the wiring is already there.
 
That's what I was thinking as we'll when I read the first post. Mansion = money = sweet network. However he reused some old routers. So $300 for labor?
 
Karandras69 said:
That's what I was thinking as we'll when I read the first post. Mansion = money = sweet network. However he reused some old routers. So $300 for labor?
Click to expand...

that was my thought, keep the 300$ in pocket, setup some half ass network that works for now with some old CHEAP routers..
 
+Plague+ said:
Thanks for the responses everyone. I will try the a single SSID with staggered channels the next time I am there.

green91, I was not aware of the POE aspect of the UniFI products. I have already tested the house on a previous trip using a POE adapter and the performance at this house abysmal. The house is already prewired for data, will I have no choice but to use POE to get the UniFi connected? Ive read that the pro model has two ethernet ports but I cant find any details as to how it works.

Also why is it that this product has been out for two years, yet I cant find a single review on it?
Click to expand...

AFAIK, all of the unifi support power over ethernet, but only the PRO modems support 802.3af which is the POE standard. The standard unifi have a proprietary power injector and cannot be powered by a POE switch.

The reason you can't find reviews on these is because they are usually only bought by consumers who think they are professional grade access points because they have a central management application. They are fine for a very small business or home usage.

That said, they are cheap. You couldn't buy any truly professional/enterprise grade AP for anywhere near your budget.

In my experience, when you get a cheap customer who wants a set up like this, walk away from the project. Its not worth making $100 profit trying to hack a setup like this together and have them calling and bitching constantly that their bottom-end equipment doesn't work properly.
 
green91 said:
AFAIK, all of the unifi support power over ethernet, but only the PRO modems support 802.3af which is the POE standard. The standard unifi have a proprietary power injector and cannot be powered by a POE switch.

The reason you can't find reviews on these is because they are usually only bought by consumers who think they are professional grade access points because they have a central management application. They are fine for a very small business or home usage.

That said, they are cheap. You couldn't buy any truly professional/enterprise grade AP for anywhere near your budget.

In my experience, when you get a cheap customer who wants a set up like this, walk away from the project. Its not worth making $100 profit trying to hack a setup like this together and have them calling and bitching constantly that their bottom-end equipment doesn't work properly.
Click to expand...

I think we have all experienced this, i see it all the time, then return later on ( on a different matter ) and look they have wireless with a pile of CHEAP linksys / dlink routers turned into a WAP, oh then go ask staff how the wireless is ? they reply with it sucks we just use our cellphone data or the guys across the street..

OH the picture that get's painted every time i see a thread like this.
 
UPDATE

I returned the access points and the main router(asus n66) today and swapped it for another router(asus n53) and 3 unifi access points, after the issues that came up following my original installation. I replaced the AP's with Two Unifi standard APs and one long range.

The long range AP is sitting right next to the router, and the router's radio is turned off. Before any of you go nuts, this is what was recommended by a Unifi representative during my phone call with the company. The reason behind this is that they are currently working on roaming for the next firmware update (according to this rep, I cant find any other info on it), so it is best to let the Unifi units handle all of the wifi.

The 3 units are on channels 1, 6, and 11, and according to wireless mon, these channels are not being used at all by anyone around the house.



The only issue I have is with the transfer speeds of the units, as I am getting significantly less speeds than with my ddwrt router AP's (when they were working properly). Connected directly into a router I get about 60mbps, the speed which the customer is paying for(charter). With the Unifi units, they are consistently between 15 and 25 mbps. With the original APs I could sit in the 40's consistently. These are speeds I would get when standing in the adjacent room. I cant reach these speeds with the Unifi even if I am standing within 10 feet of them.

This is not a dealbreaker by any means, as the consistency is going to make up for the lost speed. However, from what I read, these Unifi units have better hardware/antennas and are "industrial strength" products. It doesn't really make sense that the old asus r66 was providing better speeds.

Anyone have any solutions? What Ive tried is changing the security, the wireless mode (g only, n only) and these didnt really give any boost.

As a side note, the LR gave a few connectivity issues with some devices, and from what I read, it was common and the solution was to turn down the strength down to regular access point levels. This solved the problem for me, but it seems kind of pointless for the average user to purchase the LR if its going to cause issues like this.
 
I'm no expert but I believe encryption type affects the overall wireless speed...someone take it from here.
 
There are better people here to answer your new questions but I just wanted to say congrats on restarting the project the right way. There's no problem with making mistakes (short of the inconvenience caused to others) as long as you're willing to learn from them. I think you'll be a lot happier with your final result. :cool:
 
Oldie said:
There are better people here to answer your new questions but I just wanted to say congrats on restarting the project the right way. There's no problem with making mistakes (short of the inconvenience caused to others) as long as you're willing to learn from them. I think you'll be a lot happier with your final result. :cool:
Click to expand...
thanks, i felt guilty after setting up the house in the first place, hence why I started the thread. I'm really happy I've discovered Unifi, the controller manager is so helpful, even with as little as 3 APs.

As far as encryption goes, I was under the impression that forcing AES slowed everyone down, and forcing TKIP, while faster, forces you to run only G mode. Thats why I figured auto was better.
 
Glad to see you got [some] helpful advice here.

I'm glad I learned about UniFi, could come in handy later
 
+Plague+ said:
The only issue I have is with the transfer speeds of the units, as I am getting significantly less speeds than with my ddwrt router AP's (when they were working properly). Connected directly into a router I get about 60mbps, the speed which the customer is paying for(charter). With the Unifi units, they are consistently between 15 and 25 mbps. With the original APs I could sit in the 40's consistently. These are speeds I would get when standing in the adjacent room. I cant reach these speeds with the Unifi even if I am standing within 10 feet of them.

This is not a dealbreaker by any means, as the consistency is going to make up for the lost speed. However, from what I read, these Unifi units have better hardware/antennas and are "industrial strength" products. It doesn't really make sense that the old asus r66 was providing better speeds.
Click to expand...

How are you testing speeds? Are you reading Speedtest.net? What are you seeing on a wired client?
 
Let me ask a few questions / add a few points:

- How are you performing the speed test?

- What speed are the clients connected at? If they are on G at 54mbps, those speed readings you've indicated are correct.

- The Unifi & Unifi LR are single band only, and only do N over 2.4ghz. Some clients do not support this. This alone probably explain your speeds since the Asus R66 is dual-band. N gets good speeds on 5ghz range due to a greater amount of channels and also being able to increase the channel width to 40mhz.

- Any modern PC & AP can handle AES without a sweat. I'd force WPA2 personally. Both work perfectly fine over G and N both. I've never heard of either encryption forcing a fallback to G.


Probably should have picked up a few more of the R66 and put them in the house. They are a much better access point.
 
Last edited:
AES encryption is the most secure standard for WiFi. TKIP has known vulnerabilities. If you want speed, plug in. WiFi is so flighty; being subject to interference, obstructions, unreliability, incompatibilty, odd-colored light, and ill intentions. I'd rather have a solid, reliable WiFi installation that supports common use scenarios rather than a fast, unreliable network.
 
for the wireless speeds being half of that of the wired speed, correct me if i'm wrong but wireless is half duplex, so you speed is cut for the sending and receiving.
 
green91 said:
Let me ask a few questions / add a few points:

- How are you performing the speed test?

- What speed are the clients connected at? If they are on G at 54mbps, those speed readings you've indicated are correct.

- The Unifi & Unifi LR are single band only, and only do N over 2.4ghz. Some clients do not support this. This alone probably explain your speeds since the Asus R66 is dual-band. N gets good speeds on 5ghz range due to a greater amount of channels and also being able to increase the channel width to 40mhz.

- Any modern PC & AP can handle AES without a sweat. I'd force WPA2 personally. Both work perfectly fine over G and N both. I've never heard of either encryption forcing a fallback to G.
Probably should have picked up a few more of the R66 and put them in the house. They are a much better access point.
Click to expand...

I was doing the speed tests with speakeasy.net/speedtest and speedtest.net. Was getting aboke 50mbps on both. I think the 5ghz aspect might be the reason why I was getting faster speeds with the Asus actually, I always just assumed I was connected to the 2.4ghz radio for some reason.

R3d, that sounds about right to me, and I wouldnt be questioning the speed had the previous setup been 10-15mbps slower. Regardless, for the purposes of browsing the net, noone is gonna notice the difference between 20mbps and 30mbps.

Also, the Unifi units work the same way as identical access points with staggered channels, for the moment at least. The real advantage to using Unifi is the management software, and the roaming policies that they will hopefully introduce in the next firmware update. The roaming is the main reason why I wanted to give these a go. Also, the units are really cheap.
 
Last edited:
Good grief.... This is starting to look like another repost thread.

So let me help you a bit:

Turn off AUTO configure

Turn off wireless G unless you absolutely need it.

Force wireless N

Turn off 40mhz more, aka force 20Mhz bandwidth mode.

Use WPA2 AES personal (aka also sometimes refered to as TKIP)

You should easily achieve 80mbps throughput and connect at 144mbps to the Unifi APs with the above settings if you are sitting next to the AP. Again this is assuming that the user's laptop is somewhat modern and is using the wireless N protocol.

FYI...If 40mhz mode is enabled all the APs are interfering with each other by using (2) non adjacent channels each. This is absolutely castrate the usable wireless bandwidth available for almost the entire wireless area.


If you do not understand how wireless protocols and devices interact with each other you're going to be running uphill on this entire project. We can help, just ask and give us time to respond. Unifi will not have seemless roaming in the next update. However their firmware's roaming intelligence will take a big step up and making this product that much better. Right now its near near seemless with a 1-2 second handover time between APs, there's a larger issue of the hysteresis between APs not being very controllable at the AP end. There's also an issue with APs getting overloaded and refusing to unload clients to a adjacent AP.

It appear that the third issue will be completely resolved in the next update. The first issues speed might be improved a little, and the second issue is the REAL trick that no one without a dedicated controller has been able to resolve. I am not sure what Ubiquity is going to do with the hysteresis issue as it is normally controlled by the client. But I'm sure we will see....
 
Last edited:
A vender can custom tune their firmware to support AES or another encryption if they choose. All wireless N compliant devices are optimized for WPA2 AES as that is part of the wireless N spec. Some of the older draft N wireless routers perform poorer with AES, but NONE of the newer wireless N compliant devices I know of are optimized for any other encryption type.
 
Last edited:
dashpuppy said:
Actually it's turned into I DON'T know what the hell im doing can you help me so these guys don't sue me or come after me PLEASE HELP PLEASE HELP!

/ fail
Click to expand...

I dunno, I think Plague is actually asking some decent questions and seems to be picking stuff up pretty fast. He definitely has a better attitude than earlier in the thread. Personally, I read and post to learn and help. I find if I don't want either, I don't have to read or post :D

My advice would be to educate your client. Educate your client on your capabilities and experience, and work from there. I like to deliver solutions I don't have to service all the time, so that is what I educate my customers on. If their expectations are different from what I deliver, they know right off the bat.
A little experience will help alot. I would focus more on security, reducing interference, dead-spots and dropped packets- the rest should take care of itself.
 
dashpuppy said:
Actually it's turned into I DON'T know what the hell im doing can you help me so these guys don't sue me or come after me PLEASE HELP PLEASE HELP!

/ fail
Click to expand...

why the fuck do you insist on posting such garbage? how the fuck does this contribute in any way? I come here to learn and I am forced to deal with fucking assholes. This is the last time im posting on a forum with such a shitty community, and with moderators that think your bullshit is somehow acceptable.
 
What's up with the network sub forum being all PMSy lately...
 
Last edited:
dashpuppy said:
shrugs shoulders, probably has to do with a-lot of people that don't know what they are doing..

Weird.
Click to expand...

Do you even know what the purpose of a forum is? Cause its not meant to be a way to be condescending to people who know less than you
 
Let's stop the trolling and baiting and get back on topic. If you don't like where the thread is or is going, pick another one. No one is forced to help or reply.
Xirrus has some decent resources- posters, tools, white papers- that give a decent rund-down and help visualize what is going on.
 
Well with the OP and another member banned I'm going to close this thread up.

Name calling and trolling isn't allowed and unless you have the title of moderator around here you have zero business admonishing other members. If someone baits you into breaking a rule, that does nothing to mitigate the fact that you broke it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top