I need help to make up my mind (Windows > Mac trade)

[Nebell]

Hi all,

I am looking to buy a laptop, so I'm selling my PC online. This guy contacted me and asked if I want to trade my Windows machine for his Macbook Pro. The specs are 512gb SSD, ATI 460 4gb and Force Touch. So it must be one of the higher end Mac Pro's. I asked about the RAM and CPU but it probably is a 4 core i7 with 16gb (EDIT: It's a 2.7GHz i7 with 16gb ram). His Mac is pretty much like new and only a couple of months old.

Now, my PC is not junk either. It's a custom hardline water cooled build that cost me well over €5000 euros (pictures here https://imageshack.com/a/NqvM/1).
The specs are:
6700k
2x980Ti SLI
32GB 3000MHz Corsair Dominator Platinum CAS 15
Samsung 950 Pro 512gb
Gigabyte Gaming G1 (watercooled as well)
Seasonic Platinum 1200W
InWin 909
Full EKWB water cooling with 11 Thermaltake Riing fans (total cost about €1500).
The specs are last gen, but at the time it was the best I could buy (there's a good reason why I didn't want to go 6/8 core CPU's).

My plan was to get sell my PC, get a laptop because I need to move and also build a small factor gaming machine for myself (which I can carry in plane luggage).

The problem is, I don't know MacOS. I played around with a Macbook Pro in a shop and that Force Touch was a nice and fun gimmick. I was impressed with the design. But I absolutely hate iPhone and iPad so I will never get those. I was always that Windows guy. But I'm willing to try something new and this machine won't be used for gaming (maybe light gaming). Mostly for productivity.

What do you guys think? Should I go for it?

 

[UnknownSouljer]

I would say no. And I make this statement as a Mac and macOS convert.

Reasons:
1.) You're giving up an expensive asset and also 'investing' in an expensive asset. If you want to experiment than either spend time with a friends machine, spend a lot of time at an Apple store, or buy a significantly less expensive piece of hardware. I would say it's just foolish in general to spend that much money on something that you may or may not like. Just on hassle and principle alone.


2.) You already don't like a major part of Apple's ecosystem. macOS and iOS are very different beasts, but in some ways they are very much the same. If you want things to be like they are on Windows (just like I often hear people complain that they want iOS devices to be like Android) then you're already fighting an uphill battle. There aren't a million customizations to macOS. If you live for tweaking, overclocking, and gaming then macOS as a platform doesn't make sense for you.

Although macOS is very robust and capable of quite a bit, plenty of it is hidden under the hood. Some never get past not being able to 'move' the context bar. Some dislike the persistent dock (although Windows has basically stolen a lot of the ideas from it). And obviously some just really dislike the way the OS works. I've heard people complain about "Finder" which is the viewer for the file system. Mostly because it didn't operate like it does on Windows.


3.) People say they like change, but do they really? Most people honestly do not. So be honest with yourself about that too. If you don't have good reasons for switching other than "because you feel like it" realize that you'll more than likely "not feel like it" very quickly if anything remotely bothers you. People change and stick to new things because they have tangible/specific reasons for their decisions.


So, to reiterate, I would say no. If you're already happy on the Windows Platform, then there honestly isn't a reason for you to "try" anything else (unless you need a machine for Apple specific dev work). Switching just because something is different won't help you. If you're starting to hate Windows then the discussion becomes different. But if you're fine with it, it just makes more sense for you to spend less money and buy a Dell XPS or a Lenovo t470p etc.

 

[Nebell]

I would say no. And I make this statement as a Mac and macOS convert.

Reasons:
1.) You're giving up an expensive asset and also 'investing' in an expensive asset. If you want to experiment than either spend time with a friends machine, spend a lot of time at an Apple store, or buy a significantly less expensive piece of hardware. I would say it's just foolish in general to spend that much money on something that you may or may not like. Just on hassle and principle alone.


2.) You already don't like a major part of Apple's ecosystem. macOS and iOS are very different beasts, but in some ways they are very much the same. If you want things to be like they are on Windows (just like I often hear people complain that they want iOS devices to be like Android) then you're already fighting an uphill battle. There aren't a million customizations to macOS. If you live for tweaking, overclocking, and gaming then macOS as a platform doesn't make sense for you.

Although macOS is very robust and capable of quite a bit, plenty of it is hidden under the hood. Some never get past not being able to 'move' the context bar. Some dislike the persistent dock (although Windows has basically stolen a lot of the ideas from it). And obviously some just really dislike the way the OS works. I've heard people complain about "Finder" which is the viewer for the file system. Mostly because it didn't operate like it does on Windows.


3.) People say they like change, but do they really? Most people honestly do not. So be honest with yourself about that too. If you don't have good reasons for switching other than "because you feel like it" realize that you'll more than likely "not feel like it" very quickly if anything remotely bothers you. People change and stick to new things because they have tangible/specific reasons for their decisions.


So, to reiterate, I would say no. If you're already happy on the Windows Platform, then there honestly isn't a reason for you to "try" anything else (unless you need a machine for Apple specific dev work). Switching just because something is different won't help you. If you're starting to hate Windows then the discussion becomes different. But if you're fine with it, it just makes more sense for you to spend less money and buy a Dell XPS or a Lenovo t470p etc.

Thanks for a very detailed and unbiased reply!

Yes I do have mixed feelings about it.
However I think Mac's are much easier to sell in the future if I want to.
I'm not pricing my computer at those €5000 I spend on it. I'm trying to sell it for €2500. Yeah I lose a lot of money but don't we all?
At least I didn't buy a new car.
So that's about the same price of a used MacBook Pro. I think the new one here with those specs is about €3200.

I think I read somewhere that the dock can be removed with some app.
Anyway, I think the best option would be to ditch my computer. It's huge. Heavy.
Get that Mac for productivity and then buy a new pc with more powerful internals. I will have to move country so I want something really small and easy to put in a backpack.

I really love that Dell XPS. I haven't had a chance to play with it but it's my top choice because it looks cool. I did try new Spectre 360 and Yoga 910 (I liked Yoga better than Spectre but the internals are meh on both, and it's also only 14").
I also played around with MacBook Pro with Touch Bar in a shop and I liked it. Visually, it's a cool machine. Maybe even cooler than XPS. I liked that everything is just USB Type-C.
I did not play a lot with the OS, but you can always install Windows on it
I do love windows but still, I'm wiling to learn. As long as it's not like Linux. I really hated how unnecessarily (my opinion) hard and complicated everything was.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Thanks for a very detailed and unbiased reply!

Yes I do have mixed feelings about it.
However I think Mac's are much easier to sell in the future if I want to.
I'm not pricing my computer at those €5000 I spend on it. I'm trying to sell it for €2500. Yeah I lose a lot of money but don't we all?
At least I didn't buy a new car.
So that's about the same price of a used MacBook Pro. I think the new one here with those specs is about €3200.

Your finances are your own, you can choose to make whatever decisions you want. But if you want 'good' advice, realize that buying something because it has 'good resale value' (comparatively speaking) is foolish. Especially considering whatever tech asset you buy is going to lose most of its value within the first 3 years.

Buy an asset because it's going to be a good asset for you. To use your car statement, it doesn't make any sense to buy a car either for the resale value if it doesn't give you the utility you desire. It would be like buying a Ferrari for the resale value when what you really need is a workhorse truck. I realize that's an absurd comparison, but the point is you buy the correct tool for the job.

If your job is racing, obviously you buy the Ferrari, but if your job is towing you need the truck. It doesn't matter which one sells better on the other end. It only matters the job it's for.

I think I read somewhere that the dock can be removed with some app.
Anyway, I think the best option would be to ditch my computer. It's huge. Heavy.
Get that Mac for productivity and then buy a new pc with more powerful internals. I will have to move country so I want something really small and easy to put in a backpack.

Hrmmm, I don't think you can really get rid of the dock entirely if for no other reason than usability purposes. It would be similar to getting rid of the task bar in Windows. I guess you could do it, but then it would be a pain to switch apps and processes. People that dislike it, mostly dislike it for aesthetic reasons. I find that the issues a lot of people have are that it's different than Windows' behaviors or it's aesthetically different than Windows.

To that I say: "of course" but like I say, people really don't like change and are resistant to it. We like the idea of being malleable, but when we actually are forced into, most would prefer a root canal.

===

It's not the worst idea to have a Mac laptop and a PC desktop. But I personally never understood it. Mostly because it's much easier to live fully in one ecosystem or the other, unless the PC literally is just a system used to game on. There are people on this forum that swear by that combination though. So I maybe in the minority opinion there.

It is true that most filetypes are interchangeable between Windows and macOS at this point, provided there are the correct programs to open them on both platforms. The headache for me comes in the form of filesystems though. I often have to move huge amounts of files on external harddrives (whether NAS or DAS). So picking whether a drive is going to be formatted in either NTFS or HFS+ can be a big decision. Reading is generally fine on either operating system, but writing can cause problems, especially if it's non-native.

There is a program called "Paragon" that works as a stop gap, but if you're doing things that are mission critical, it's hard to entrust all your work to a program that offers no warranty if things go wrong... like if it accidentally corrupts the entire file system.

Anyway, that's digging farther into the mess than you were probably thinking about, but it's also good to know if you're serious about trying to run to machines with each other.

I really love that Dell XPS. I haven't had a chance to play with it but it's my top choice because it looks cool. I did try new Spectre 360 and Yoga 910 (I liked Yoga better than Spectre but the internals are meh on both, and it's also only 14").
I also played around with MacBook Pro with Touch Bar in a shop and I liked it. Visually, it's a cool machine. Maybe even cooler than XPS. I liked that everything is just USB Type-C.
I did not play a lot with the OS, but you can always install Windows on it
I do love windows but still, I'm wiling to learn. As long as it's not like Linux. I really hated how unnecessarily (my opinion) hard and complicated everything was.

Dell XPS is comparable to MBPr's from a specs and form factor perspective. Which is why I listed it. I don't have a huge amount of experience using them, but they're basically recommended ad naseum in the Mobile Computing subforum. The Yoga and the Spectre aren't supposed to be speed machines, they're like Macbook Air's. Designed to be incredibly thin and light and used mostly for Office tasks and browsing. They're fantastic machines for most people that don't need 4+ cores and 16+GB of RAM and a heavy graphics card. As their lightness, battery life, and weight are their key advantages.

===

As far as installing Windows on to the Macbook Pro as a solution to disliking macOS, I would tell you don't bother. Bootcamp is designed at best to be a band aid. It "works" but the drivers are terrible. Essentially you give up a lot of the best parts of the machine by running Windows as opposed to macOS on a Macbook.

It will only use the discreet graphics card for all tasks as an example. Which is a massive hit to the battery life. The 6-8 hours of screen on time drops to a paltry 1-2 hours. The touchpad which is one of the best in the industry doesn't work properly in Windows. The multi-touch functions for the most part go away and the tracking isn't nearly as good. If you get a touch bar MBP then obviously that all doesn't function seamlessly as it does in macOS.

To restate, bootcamp is a bandaid to allow people to use Windows for a few minor tasks here and there. Rather than as an OS replacement for macOS. Honestly it's better to just VM Windows if you ever need to use it while on a Mac rather than fully boot into it. As 'pretty' as Apple hardware is it will not be an enjoyable experience at all as a permanent Windows machine.

It's slightly better if you're using a Mac desktop since you don't have to worry about things like battery life, but I had a huge amount of driver headaches on my iMac. Mostly relating to video card drivers (obviously I was just in Windows to play a few games that hadn't been ported to macOS).

===

You will find macOS quite simple to learn in a lot of ways. It's not complicated to do things in. However it has its very specific behaviors. That's where most people have their problems. The macOS way of doing things is just different than Windows.

As an example, when clicking on the expand button, macOS' behavior is to only increase the size of the window to accommodate the size of the contents of the Window. Windows of course expands the Window to the entire size of the screen.

All the shortcuts are a bit different and mostly revolve around the "Command" key. The Command key is in a different place than the Windows key. The file system is Unix-like (as it is essentially Unix).

In terms of actually learning this stuff, it's easy. It doesn't require a bunch of configuration like Linux. No driver hell. No update hell. All of that stuff is generally seamless and significantly easier than Windows, or any other platform for that matter. It's like I say, the issues most people have is that Windows behaviors are too engrained in them and they experience resistance trying to deal with macOS' ways of doing things.

 

[Nebell]

Your finances are your own, you can choose to make whatever decisions you want. But if you want 'good' advice, realize that buying something because it has 'good resale value' (comparatively speaking) is foolish. Especially considering whatever tech asset you buy is going to lose most of its value within the first 3 years.

Buy an asset because it's going to be a good asset for you. To use your car statement, it doesn't make any sense to buy a car either for the resale value if it doesn't give you the utility you desire. It would be like buying a Ferrari for the resale value when what you really need is a workhorse truck. I realize that's an absurd comparison, but the point is you buy the correct tool for the job.

If your job is racing, obviously you buy the Ferrari, but if your job is towing you need the truck. It doesn't matter which one sells better on the other end. It only matters the job it's for.




Hrmmm, I don't think you can really get rid of the dock entirely if for no other reason than usability purposes. It would be similar to getting rid of the task bar in Windows. I guess you could do it, but then it would be a pain to switch apps and processes. People that dislike it, mostly dislike it for aesthetic reasons. I find that the issues a lot of people have are that it's different than Windows' behaviors or it's aesthetically different than Windows.

To that I say: "of course" but like I say, people really don't like change and are resistant to it. We like the idea of being malleable, but when we actually are forced into, most would prefer a root canal.

===

It's not the worst idea to have a Mac laptop and a PC desktop. But I personally never understood it. Mostly because it's much easier to live fully in one ecosystem or the other, unless the PC literally is just a system used to game on. There are people on this forum that swear by that combination though. So I maybe in the minority opinion there.

It is true that most filetypes are interchangeable between Windows and macOS at this point, provided there are the correct programs to open them on both platforms. The headache for me comes in the form of filesystems though. I often have to move huge amounts of files on external harddrives (whether NAS or DAS). So picking whether a drive is going to be formatted in either NTFS or HFS+ can be a big decision. Reading is generally fine on either operating system, but writing can cause problems, especially if it's non-native.

There is a program called "Paragon" that works as a stop gap, but if you're doing things that are mission critical, it's hard to entrust all your work to a program that offers no warranty if things go wrong... like if it accidentally corrupts the entire file system.

Anyway, that's digging farther into the mess than you were probably thinking about, but it's also good to know if you're serious about trying to run to machines with each other.





Dell XPS is comparable to MBPr's from a specs and form factor perspective. Which is why I listed it. I don't have a huge amount of experience using them, but they're basically recommended ad naseum in the Mobile Computing subforum. The Yoga and the Spectre aren't supposed to be speed machines, they're like Macbook Air's. Designed to be incredibly thin and light and used mostly for Office tasks and browsing. They're fantastic machines for most people that don't need 4+ cores and 16+GB of RAM and a heavy graphics card. As their lightness, battery life, and weight are their key advantages.

===

As far as installing Windows on to the Macbook Pro as a solution to disliking macOS, I would tell you don't bother. Bootcamp is designed at best to be a band aid. It "works" but the drivers are terrible. Essentially you give up a lot of the best parts of the machine by running Windows as opposed to macOS on a Macbook.

It will only use the discreet graphics card for all tasks as an example. Which is a massive hit to the battery life. The 6-8 hours of screen on time drops to a paltry 1-2 hours. The touchpad which is one of the best in the industry doesn't work properly in Windows. The multi-touch functions for the most part go away and the tracking isn't nearly as good. If you get a touch bar MBP then obviously that all doesn't function seamlessly as it does in macOS.

To restate, bootcamp is a bandaid to allow people to use Windows for a few minor tasks here and there. Rather than as an OS replacement for macOS. Honestly it's better to just VM Windows if you ever need to use it while on a Mac rather than fully boot into it. As 'pretty' as Apple hardware is it will not be an enjoyable experience at all as a permanent Windows machine.

It's slightly better if you're using a Mac desktop since you don't have to worry about things like battery life, but I had a huge amount of driver headaches on my iMac. Mostly relating to video card drivers (obviously I was just in Windows to play a few games that hadn't been ported to macOS).

===

You will find macOS quite simple to learn in a lot of ways. It's not complicated to do things in. However it has its very specific behaviors. That's where most people have their problems. The macOS way of doing things is just different than Windows.

As an example, when clicking on the expand button, macOS' behavior is to only increase the size of the window to accommodate the size of the contents of the Window. Windows of course expands the Window to the entire size of the screen.

All the shortcuts are a bit different and mostly revolve around the "Command" key. The Command key is in a different place than the Windows key. The file system is Unix-like (as it is essentially Unix).

In terms of actually learning this stuff, it's easy. It doesn't require a bunch of configuration like Linux. No driver hell. No update hell. All of that stuff is generally seamless and significantly easier than Windows, or any other platform for that matter. It's like I say, the issues most people have is that Windows behaviors are too engrained in them and they experience resistance trying to deal with macOS' ways of doing things.

Hahah oh man, I went from not knowing what to get to deciding on actually doing this trade and now I'm back to not knowing what I want
I work with computers but I have only worked with Windows. And I'm a bit ashamed that I don't know much about MacOS. I get a lot of customers who have Macs' because they are easy to use and just work like all other Apple products. But I can't really help them because I have never owned an Apple device (besides my iPhone 7 which is a work phone and I don't like it at all) and I have to let my colleagues deal with that.
It's one of the reasons why I want to get a Mac. Not just because it maybe would be fun to learn but there's also a bit of "I really should learn it" attitude to it.
Maybe I should just get new Yoga 910 Glass or XPS 15 4k anyway.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Hahah oh man, I went from not knowing what to get to deciding on actually doing this trade and now I'm back to not knowing what I want
I work with computers but I have only worked with Windows. And I'm a bit ashamed that I don't know much about MacOS. I get a lot of customers who have Macs' because they are easy to use and just work like all other Apple products. But I can't really help them because I have never owned an Apple device (besides my iPhone 7 which is a work phone and I don't like it at all) and I have to let my colleagues deal with that.
It's one of the reasons why I want to get a Mac. Not just because it maybe would be fun to learn but there's also a bit of "I really should learn it" attitude to it.
Maybe I should just get new Yoga 910 Glass or XPS 15 4k anyway.

If your goal is learning, that is a good thing to do. Noble if it really is for clientele. I would simply recommend buying a less expensive piece of hardware to start with. And if you end up liking it and the ecosystem, you can upgrade. That way if you hate it, your initial investment is low. If you enjoy it, at least you got to test the waters first.

This guy as an example is selling older C2D MBP's. They'll be slow (as anything running a c2d is at this point), but they have a very cheap cost of entry. I will of course say: do your due diligence. I do not endorse this seller, I don't know who he is, it is of course your job to make sure you feel comfortable buying from him.
https://hardforum.com/threads/fsft-macbooks-laptops-ps4-misc-stuff-4-23-price-drops.1929733/

===

And for what it's worth, I am playing devils advocate to a certain degree. I'll do anything I can to talk someone out of making a purchasing decision that isn't rooted in clear objectives that makes financial sense. What you do past that of course is up to you. But I have seen too many people make big leaps and have big regrets.

I moved to Macs in 2008. I haven't looked back. For certain users and usage cases they can't be beat. I personally think they make the best machines especially for productivity. But if you're glued to Windows and its ecosystem, you're a gamer, and/or you're obsessed with water-cooling, overclocking, and tweaking than macOS will not be for you. That precludes most people on these boards from being interested in Macs; as primarily these boards fit people that are in one or more of those categories.

 

[Nebell]

If your goal is learning, that is a good thing to do. Noble if it really is for clientele. I would simply recommend buying a less expensive piece of hardware to start with. And if you end up liking it and the ecosystem, you can upgrade. That way if you hate it, your initial investment is low. If you enjoy it, at least you got to test the waters first.

This guy as an example is selling older C2D MBP's. They'll be slow (as anything running a c2d is at this point), but they have a very cheap cost of entry. I will of course say: do your due diligence. I do not endorse this seller, I don't know who he is, it is of course your job to make sure you feel comfortable buying from him.
https://hardforum.com/threads/fsft-macbooks-laptops-ps4-misc-stuff-4-23-price-drops.1929733/

===

And for what it's worth, I am playing devils advocate to a certain degree. I'll do anything I can to talk someone out of making a purchasing decision that isn't rooted in clear objectives that makes financial sense. What you do past that of course is up to you. But I have seen too many people make big leaps and have big regrets.

I moved to Macs in 2008. I haven't looked back. For certain users and usage cases they can't be beat. I personally think they make the best machines especially for productivity. But if you're glued to Windows and its ecosystem, you're a gamer, and/or you're obsessed with water-cooling, overclocking, and tweaking than macOS will not be for you. That precludes most people on these boards from being interested in Macs; as primarily these boards fit people that are in one or more of those categories.

I see.
Thanks for the tips. I really appreciate you writing such lengthy and detailed posts. I live in Sweden so I'm not used to buying stuff from the US, and people here use Heat-something which I have no clue what it's about.
Anyway, you did a so-so job turning me away from this, haha. The thing is while your points are very logical and I agree with them, if Mac users are as nice and knowledgable as you, then maybe switching to Mac would not be a bad thing after all

 

[rsquared]

If you are not excited about getting a Mac, like Oh boy I can't wait to try out Mac, then I think that answers your question. Why do it if you don't really want to? Also, in the middle of a big inter-country move is probably not a great time to be learning a new system. You will surely have enough things to worry about already. It's not just the OS that is different, but most of the software, too—whatever programs you're used to using on Windows, you'll probably need to find a different program to do that on Mac. Even programs that are "cross platform" like Photoshop or Microsoft Office behave differently, if similarly, on the different platforms. So along with learning a new OS you'll be learning a bunch of other software, too.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

I see.
Thanks for the tips. I really appreciate you writing such lengthy and detailed posts. I live in Sweden so I'm not used to buying stuff from the US, and people here use Heat-something which I have no clue what it's about.
Anyway, you did a so-so job turning me away from this, haha. The thing is while your points are very logical and I agree with them, if Mac users are as nice and knowledgable as you, then maybe switching to Mac would not be a bad thing after all

I apologize. I forgot you are in Europe. Of course, by all means, buy something that is local to you and that makes sense. If nothing else my previous post just pointed out that you can get a piece of hardware for much less just for testing purposes.

===

Heatware is just an independent site in which people can report feedback on buyers and sellers. It's used on several US forums, as it is, well independent of any particular site.
http://www.heatware.com/

===

Communities are always a mixed bag. You'll find people that you mesh with and people you don't. There is a lot of elitism in communities in general. It's actually quite hard to find people that will at least try to give a balanced opinion. People fight over AMD and Intel, nVidia and AMD, PC vs Mac, Android vs iOS, and on and on. I'm glad you feel your first experience with a Mac user was pleasant, but really a lot of interactions unfortunately are not.

 

[BiH115]

Why not just sell the PC, pocket the cash, then use some of it to try a MacBook out from the store? Return it if you don't, and try something else. Optionally, you could just get a used one somewhere for cheap (eBay, Europe equivalent of Craigslist, etc.).

The XPS is a fantastic laptop, and will serve you well, but at least give MacOS a shot to be sure. If you'll be using it for productivity, you'll get used to it fast and I can't think of any real reason you'd downright hate it. I own both a rMBP 13" and an XPS 13, and both are built fantastically. Just comes down to which you want to live with daily.

 

[Nebell]

Well, you guys have convinced me not to do it

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Well, you guys have convinced me not to do it

If you buy a less expensive Mac and need some more help, feel free to stop back in.

 

[Nebell]

If you buy a less expensive Mac and need some more help, feel free to stop back in.

Thanks, but I think I will go with Dell XPS 15. I can find a refurbished with 7700k, 32gb, 1TB SSD, GTX 1050 and 4k screen for ~$2100.

 

[TrevorR]

I would trade. I've held numerous macbooks over the year, my current one is the same one you posted.

I also have the PC in my sig....


In 3 years time, your pc will be "outdated" and not able to fetch anywhere near what you paid for it. In 3 years time, you can sell the macbook for pretty damn close to what you paid for it, especially if it has applecare on it. I think they are equivalent in price, but my justification is based on how well you can resell over the long term.

I would trade in a heartbeat.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Thanks, but I think I will go with Dell XPS 15. I can find a refurbished with 7700k, 32gb, 1TB SSD, GTX 1050 and 4k screen for ~$2100.

I understand. But your original interest was for learning purposes. I was saying: if you decided to get an old machine for 200-500 euros or something just to learn on.

XPS looks great, enjoy the laptop.

I would trade. I've held numerous macbooks over the year, my current one is the same one you posted.

I also have the PC in my sig....


In 3 years time, your pc will be "outdated" and not able to fetch anywhere near what you paid for it. In 3 years time, you can sell the macbook for pretty damn close to what you paid for it, especially if it has applecare on it. I think they are equivalent in price, but my justification is based on how well you can resell over the long term.

I would trade in a heartbeat.

Disagree highly with this, I stated why earlier in the thread. Firstly, no tech asset after 3 years will get you nearly all of what you put into it back. The Mac will get you more than a similar PC, but you are overstating the resale value of these machines.

Secondly it makes zero sense for him to buy a machine that he potentially won't use. So if he buys it, hates it, his options are what: hang onto it for three years and have an unused asset? Obviously that's being slightly facetious, he could just flip it, but that is a lot of work and hassle for an unsure result.

Buying an asset for the resale value is foolish. Buy the asset you need. If you make $50k a year, don't just buy a BMW because the resale value is higher than a Corolla. You might get 'more' on the back end, but if you look at the numbers, you'd save more money by just spending less in the first place. Especially if you don't have an excellent reason for needing that particular asset.

If your goal is to 'make money' you'd make "more" money by literally taking the difference in cost between the Mac and the PC and putting it into an account with 11-12% interest over the three years than you ever would in selling the Mac on the back end (so if he saves $1000 buying a PC over a similarly spec'ed Mac and puts that in a mutual fund that gets 12% interest over 3 years not only would he save $1000 but he'd earn: $430.77). You would never be able to make up the difference in selling the Mac on the back end, and you would definitely NOT accrue interest either. So if the intent is in investing for the purpose in 'making money' then it's still an idiotic thing to do.

===

Buy a Mac because it's an asset that works for you and you need it to accomplish specific tasks. This is coming from a 100% Apple/Mac user. So yes, I do pay their premium. But I have tangible reasons for doing so. I would never just blanket tell everyone to switch over.

My Father as an example still uses WordPerfect on the PC as a Lawyer, and WordPerfect has certain functions that still to this day Microsoft Word or Apple Pages do not (functions that for him are mission critical, and his whole life is documents). That singular program prevents him from ever moving to macOS. People use machines for a lot of different purposes. One size does not fit all. Always make your purchasing decisions based upon what you need (utility) and what you can afford (cost). Ignore 'resale value'.

 

[TrevorR]

I understand. But your original interest was for learning purposes. I was saying: if you decided to get an old machine for 200-500 euros or something just to learn on.

XPS looks great, enjoy the laptop.




Disagree highly with this, I stated why earlier in the thread. Firstly, no tech asset after 3 years will get you nearly all of what you put into it back. The Mac will get you more than a similar PC, but you are overstating the resale value of these machines.

Secondly it makes zero sense for him to buy a machine that he potentially won't use. So if he buys it, hates it, his options are what: hang onto it for three years and have an unused asset? Obviously that's being slightly facetious, he could just flip it, but that is a lot of work and hassle for an unsure result.

Buying an asset for the resale value is foolish. Buy the asset you need. If you make $50k a year, don't just buy a BMW because the resale value is higher than a Corolla. You might get 'more' on the back end, but if you look at the numbers, you'd save more money by just spending less in the first place. Especially if you don't have an excellent reason for needing that particular asset.

If your goal is to 'make money' you'd make "more" money by literally taking the difference in cost between the Mac and the PC and putting it into an account with 11-12% interest over the three years than you ever would in selling the Mac on the back end (so if he saves $1000 buying a PC over a similarly spec'ed Mac and puts that in a mutual fund that gets 12% interest over 3 years not only would he save $1000 but he'd earn: $430.77). So if the intent is in investing for the purpose in 'making money' then it's still an idiotic thing to do.

The point went way over your head. I didn't say to buy the macbook as an investment. It will lose value over time obviously, like anything. I simply said, that if you used the macbook for a couple years and then wanted to get rid of it, you'd be able to sell it for a nice chunk of change

I'm well aware of "investments" and all that jazz, I'm a day trader/ financial advisor, shit, one of my stocks is up 33% today!!! But the op here wanted a laptop and he was offered a macbook for a trade. You are severely undervaluing the resale value of these Macbooks. I just sold my 17" 2011 Macbook on ebay last year for about $800 if I remember correctly, the camera was busted too but it still had applecare.

If I had built a PC in 2011, it wouldn't even fetch 1/4 of what I bought it for 5 years later.

And yes you are right about putting it into an account and make money off your money.

But I never said that he should get the macbook because you'll get a good return off of it later. Simply stating that he could get said macbook and then take good care of it and use it, and in a couple years when you want to upgrade, just sell it and get a nice chunk of change for it. I'm willing to bet that the macbook will have better resale value than the PC that he built in 5 years time....


Its like buying a new car (Although a dumb decision) but if you reallly wanted a new car, you should probably look for a car that will hold its resale value in the long term in addition to reliability.

Some people buy 4 runners because for some reason they only depreciate by 30% in 3 years, which is amazing. Still a bad investment, but amazing for a vehicle.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

The point went way over your head. I didn't say to buy the macbook as an investment. It will lose value over time obviously, like anything. I simply said, that if you used the macbook for a couple years and then wanted to get rid of it, you'd be able to sell it for a nice chunk of change

I'm well aware of "investments" and all that jazz, I'm a day trader/ financial advisor, shit, one of my stocks is up 33% today!!! But the op here wanted a laptop and he was offered a macbook for a trade. You are severely undervaluing the resale value of these Macbooks. I just sold my 17" 2011 Macbook on ebay last year for about $800 if I remember correctly, the camera was busted too but it still had applecare.

If I had built a PC in 2011, it wouldn't even fetch 1/4 of what I bought it for 5 years later.

And yes you are right about putting it into an account and make money off your money.

But I never said that he should get the macbook because you'll get a good return off of it later. Simply stating that he could get said macbook and then take good care of it and use it, and in a couple years when you want to upgrade, just sell it and get a nice chunk of change for it. I'm willing to bet that the macbook will have better resale value than the PC that he built in 5 years time....


Its like buying a new car (Although a dumb decision) but if you reallly wanted a new car, you should probably look for a car that will hold its resale value in the long term in addition to reliability.

Some people buy 4 runners because for some reason they only depreciate by 30% in 3 years, which is amazing. Still a bad investment, but amazing for a vehicle.

No, I understood your point, but you didn't address anything else I said. "Investment", in the financial sense, is only one part of it.

The main point is his usage case, and clearly he doesn't want or need to use a Mac. Buying or trading for something for curiosities sake isn't useful or practical. He'd be better off selling his current machine and buying another machine rather than trading for a Mac that he may or may not have a use for (currently he doesn't even have a use for).

I've bought, sold and traded quite a few Macs in my time using them. Yes, they 'hold value' better than other machines, but still not enough to choose buying one if the tool doesn't serve a purpose for you. No tool no matter how well it 'holds its value' (as in, never goes up in value) is worth buying if it has no utility.

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There are multiple reasons why he should not make the trade. And only one "for" which is resale value. I've provided more than enough points as to why that isn't a valid reason to ever buy or trade for anything.

 

[Nebell]

Well, I'm not getting that Mac.
I have a friend in the US who can buy a manufacturer refurbished top of the line Dell XPS 15 and send it to me as a gift.
It will save me about 600 euros or more compared to if I bought it as new here in Sweden.

 

[DocNo]

I'm a little late to the party so please forgive that.

I think you dodged a huge bullet - once you use a MacBook and get used to Apple's trackpad, you'll never be able to use a trackpad on a PC laptop ever again. I least I haven't found any that are remotely close to as good as the MacBook trackpads.