I need a very specific type of a TV

Discussion in 'Displays' started by GodOfGaming, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. GodOfGaming

    GodOfGaming Limp Gawd

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    Hello guys, I'm looking for something that seems to be obscure enough that a few google searches weren't enough to help me find it. I want a TV, that is 1080p, not 4K, is as large as possible without 1080p looking too ugly from it being too large (I'm guessing the 40-50 inch range is as high as I can go?). It also absolutely shouldn't be a smart TV, has no smart features at all. I know you would say I can simply not use them, but no, I absolutely refuse to have them present. It also shoudln't be some entry level budget TV with low build quality and image quality, and is instead a high end model with great image quality and build quality. Oh, and it shouldnt be OLED, I guess either IPS or VA would be fine, it needs to be able to last a long, long time.

    Seems like theres no such thing on the current market, all current high end models are 4K smart TVs, so I'm fine with it being an old model that I'm gonna be looking to get used. Thing is, I want the absolute best such TV ever made, The absolute best 1080p dumb TV of all time, but I cant find info online about which model in specific should I be searching for.

    I'm going to connect it to a PC and 7.1 surround speakers, so really the most important bit would be the panel quality. Basically all I'm gonna use it for is watching 1080p movies and shows straight off the PC. I'm confident I wont be going up to 4K as 1080p looks good enough for me and 4K takes up a lot more HDD space so it's harder to build up a large collection of 4K movies and shows than a large collection of 1080p movies and shows. I won't actually watch any television on it, playing movies and shows off the PC is really all it's ever gonna be used for.

    I'm currently using a 32" Philips 1080p dumb TV which I bought many years ago, it does the job well but it was just an entry level budget model even back then, so Im sure theres higher quality models than that, and going up in size would be nice too. So I want to gift it to my mother who is still using a CRT, and replace it with the best 1080p dumb TV model ever made. Do you guys know which model that is?
     
  2. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    How you perceive the pixels will depend on the chosen size and how far you sit from it.
    50" at 3 to 4ft away should look fine and will be easy on the eyes while filling your vision nicely.

    If you insist on no smart TV features at all, get a monitor or an older TV.
    The end of range Panasonic Plasma TVs are pretty good as a PC monitor.
    I had an earlier version (2008) that used more power and was reported to be not as good at avoiding image retention issues but it worked great for me for 5 years and has been working for another 4 years since in the hands of a Cousin for PC general use/gaming and console gaming.
    Still no image retention and an awesome picture.
    The last few years of Panasonic plasma TVs make great PC monitors.
     
  3. GodOfGaming

    GodOfGaming Limp Gawd

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    "get a monitor or an older TV" - I pretty much know Im gonna have to look for an older model, but the problem is I dont know which exactly. As for monitors, theres no monitors this large in 1080p.... well, seems Dell have a 55" 1080p monitor meant for conference rooms, but people say the image quality ain't all that great on it. As for the Plasma TVs, I doubt they would be as durable as IPS or VA ones, same as OLEDs, which is why I'd rather stick to IPS or VA which I know for sure should last a long, long time. If only I knew a particular model name to search for....
     
  4. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    Normally I'd just say "get one of the last good plasmas -- Samsung F8500 if you need LCD-like brightness, or Panasonic VT series if you want the most perfect black levels" but those TVs all have smart features... in fact I'm pretty sure every good TV from at least the past 7-8 years had smart features so... you're pretty much stuck with buying something very old and not very good. I have no idea what the last plasma without smart features was, but it certainly wasn't as good as the 2014 Samsungs and Panasonics. Maybe one of the original Kuros if you can even find one? Not sure if they had smart features or not.
     
  5. GodOfGaming

    GodOfGaming Limp Gawd

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    I wanted to follow your advice and was on the lookout for a Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A , but I decided just now that I don't want neither an OLED nor a Plasma after all, they may have better blacks than LCD but I don't want to have to avoid displaying static images and logos to avoid burn-in. So I want it to be an LCD after all. A high end 1080p LCD with no smart features. At least one such model should have existed within the past 10 years or so, name it please :)
     
  6. kumquat

    kumquat [H]ardness Supreme

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  7. Chas

    Chas [H]ardness Supreme

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    Okay, forgive me if this comes across as dumb.

    What's the problem with getting a decent 4K TV/Monitor of suitably large size and then simply using screen magnification to bring it down to a sharp 1080p?
     
  8. GodOfGaming

    GodOfGaming Limp Gawd

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    Because 1080p content on 4K screen, contrary to popular belief, does not look quite as good as 1080p content on 1080p screen does.
     
  9. vegeta535

    vegeta535 [H]ard|Gawd

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    You not going to find a good new 1080P TV anymore. Bite the bullet and get yourself a newer 4k TV. I don't believe even the cheapo brands make 1080P TVs anymore. Don't be stuburn. With your criteria it is almost impossible.
     
  10. GodOfGaming

    GodOfGaming Limp Gawd

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    I didn't say it has to be a new model, I'll be more than happy to hunt down an old model on ebay, if I knew it's the best.
     
  11. kumquat

    kumquat [H]ardness Supreme

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    Did you look into commercial displays? They're exactly what you're asking for. There are hundreds of them out there.
     
  12. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger @le, an alcoholic's best friend.

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    At work we just got in 75 and 90 inch displays which are all 1080P. They are used in meeting rooms to replace projectors.
     
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  13. [21CW]killerofall

    [21CW]killerofall Aliens...

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    This is your answer, professional monitors are what you are looking for. Only problem is that you are going to pay a lot for them. All the ones at our work are NEC. Be prepared to pay around $1k. https://www.necdisplay.com/category?category=displays
     
  14. GodOfGaming

    GodOfGaming Limp Gawd

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    I'm still not quite convinced in those, do they have the perfect image quality you would expect from a high end TV, with no blurring, ghosting, backlight bleed, glow etc., these are designed to serve a task where such issues would probably not be really a problem, so I feel a bit sceptical about the manufacturers even bothering with the QA needed to avoid those issues. Also they seem to not be completely lacking in smart features, I see they have an ethernet port that they use for like remote settings or whatever, too many questionable features there...I bet I won't even be able to find detailed reviews on those
     
  15. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger @le, an alcoholic's best friend.

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    You aren’t going to get a high end new 1080P screen with “perfect image quality” and without Smart TV in 2018. The market for those is almost non existent.

    A lot of commercial displays use a separate box for content, so they don’t expect the users to need an Ethernet port, however it allows for remote diagnostics. If you setup 100+ displays in an airport terminal, you can ping the TVs to make sure they are on.

    Commercial displays are generally QAed very well because they expect people to hang them on walls and be on for months and years at a time.
     
  16. kumquat

    kumquat [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ethernet port is a "questionable feature"?

    Your issue is self-created and bizarre. Your religious avoidance of smart features means you have to make compromises.

    No one makes a modern big screen consumer TV without smart features. You're either going to have to get a commercial display or suck it up.
     
  17. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    Yes I don't think that black levels or shadow detail are important on commercial displays, and I don't think any of them use local dimming at all. Brightness and longevity are the priorities. But on the other hand, you aren't going to find a 1080P LCD that has good black levels and image quality unless you go back in time to something like the Sharp Elites and buy an old used one. Assuming you can find them.
     
  18. [21CW]killerofall

    [21CW]killerofall Aliens...

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    Also if you never connect the tv to an internet source, you will not be able to use the smart features. Your avoidance of the smart features is just plain stupid, to be honest. If you don't want to use those features, you don't need to use them. You will actually end up paying MORE to not have the smart features then to have them, so there is no logical reason to avoid them.
     
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  19. cjcox

    cjcox Gawd

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    Best Buy's Insignia NS-55D510NA19 but you probably need to act fast as these will likely sell out eventually.
     
  20. GodOfGaming

    GodOfGaming Limp Gawd

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    Guys, stop repeating that I can't find what I'm looking for on the current market, I already know that, I'm asking about an old discontinued model that matches my criterias that I will then dig for on the used market. Like those "Sharp Elites" Sancus suggested, I'm gonna research them a bit later as I'm busy now, but you get the point.

    Geez, if I were to ask for a great high end 4:3 monitor for retro gaming probably everyone will get it and say I should get a Trinitron like a Sony GDM-F520...

    P.S. from a Sharp Elite review: "There's also 3D functionality, and Internet connectivity, with pre-loaded Netflix, Vudu, and social media apps." damn, even this model is full of cancer...
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  21. kumquat

    kumquat [H]ardness Supreme

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    This statement is really nonsensical. The presence of apps does not affect your actual usage of the TV. Grow up.
     
  22. cjcox

    cjcox Gawd

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    With that said, it can have a great impact at startup and can affect apparently "unrelated" things if the firrmware/engine goes bad. It's like saying there is no difference between a smart phone and early flip phone. There's a difference and I can respect the guy's desire to find what he wants (even if difficult). Here's the thing, old stuff wears. So, even an ultra-high end "dumb" TV might not be so great now. And technology moves, so that ultra-high end "dumb" TV from long ago, might not have a better panel than today's Hisense or even Element. This could be harder than it seems.
     
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  23. ND40oz

    ND40oz [H]ardForum Junkie

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  24. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    This is the dumbest thread I've seen in years.

    Giant monitor, but must be high-quality and 1080p and no smart features.

    This would have been possible three years ago, but the 1080p train has left the station. IF you absolutely must have the best qualltiy possible, get a 4k TV. Use an external scaler for your high-quality 4k TV if your picky-ass-self can't handle the TV's internal scaler.

    Your only real alternative is a projector but that will only be for a time. You'll have to give in to 4k eventually.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  25. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    my bank just got some new commercial samsungs, they are really nice.
     
  26. Brahmzy

    Brahmzy [H]ardness Supreme

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    BS. Buy a better 4K TV. Sony’s 4K sets upscaling makes 1080p content look great.
    This thread is F’d.
     
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  27. GodOfGaming

    GodOfGaming Limp Gawd

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    Me: looking for old model high end TV from when they still had no smart features, I'm very aware they're no longer sold and I'm fine with getting an used old model, so please stop telling me what I already know and instead tell me about the old models from years ago from when TVs still had no smart features added, I havent followed the TV industry like I have the PC industry so I dont know particular models and what was good back then

    50% of you: these don't exist on the current market
    other 50% of you: F what you want, get a new smart 4K tv

    ...yeah, I'm done here
     
  28. kumquat

    kumquat [H]ardness Supreme

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    What you want really doesn't exist, and will never exist again. You are insisting on older-generation features for no reason at all. It's time to move on.

    If you want an old used model, then you need to hit up Craigslist or something and see what's available locally. That's dumb, and you will end up with an inferior product, but if you want to do it go ahead. We can't give you specific old models to look for or something.

    Personally, I'm still rocking a Panasonic plasma (one of the last plasma models they made). It's better than basically any other TV currently on the market except maybe some of the OLED models. It has smart features, but I've literally never used them and haven't noticed them.
     
  29. defaultluser

    defaultluser I B Dum

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    Yeah, I I'm sorry I didn't do the research on your post history before I posted in this trainwreck -of-a thread :rolleyes:

    You have a history of posting exacting requests for purchase help, but don't seem to be willing to do the research yourself. You post little to nothing else. This is how you've had an account five years, but just 150 posts.


    You're going to have to listen to us, or else I'm afraid you're going to have to do your own fucking research.

    Going Used TV shopping is the only way to get the 1080p high-quality that you insist on, and that just happens to be the Golden Fucking Age of 1080p Smart Televisions, so any suggestions on "what to watch out for" on your local Craigslist will be mostly a wasted effort on our parts.


    I have no clue what suggestions to make out of the mess of brands and models, and I'm not doing your homework for you. You didn't even give us a panel type preference or brand preference , so you're not even making the smallest of effort here!
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
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  30. kumquat

    kumquat [H]ardness Supreme

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    Wow, that posting history is a rollercoaster.
     
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  31. [21CW]killerofall

    [21CW]killerofall Aliens...

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    Some of us actually gave you options for what you want but apparently you refuse to listen to them. The only way to get exactly what you want is to go the professional TV route, but you will end up spending as much as a new OLED TV would cost which just doesn't make any damn sense. You have have an illogical hatred for the smart TVs. If you don't want the features, just don't connect it to a network and the smart features don't work. Yes you are paying for something that you aren't using, but it costs much more to get a TV without smart features in the resolution you want. Also you can't go the used market as you stated that you want it to last a long time and any TV that has those features will be about 10 years old and no way will last much longer than a few years.
     
  32. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger 3.5GB GTX 970 Slayer

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    Sure is... Yeesh!
     
  33. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    The funny thing is that I don't think there actually WERE any good 1080P LCD non-Smart TVs ever made. Like... ever. At all. When LCDs started to take over from CRT and Plasma in the late 2000s, Smart features pretty much came along with them. In fact Smart features started around 2008 and were ubiquitous by 2009, the Sharp Elite that I suggested is a 2011 TV, and it's the first LCD TV that I can recall being competitive with Plasma for image quality. And by that time you already couldn't buy a high-end TV without Smart features.

    So what you're asking for is a 1080P LCD TV from 2008 or earlier that is any good and I'm almost 100% certain that there is no such thing, any TV from that era is going to be worse than any random modern commercial display. Especially when you consider the effects of 10+ years of aging on any LCD panel. I personally would not even consider buying such old LCDs, they weren't good panels back then and they absolutely will not have aged well even if they somehow still work.

    But I agree with the above responses that you want a very difficult to find niche thing and haven't done any of your own research, so I've already wasted too much time writing this post. Your weird preferences are going to cost you a lot of money for an inferior product.
     
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  34. kasakka

    kasakka Gawd

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    Just pick up something like a Panasonic Viera (plasma). Sure it has smart features but if you don't touch them you will never even notice they are there. They are not implemented like on current TVs where they are quite prominent but instead are behind a separate button. I used to have one of those and kept forgetting it even had those features. I gave it to my parents a few years ago and it's still working good as ever.
     
  35. GodOfGaming

    GodOfGaming Limp Gawd

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    This. This is the kind of constructive post I wanted to see, not all those "get plasma" or "get 4k oled" or whatever posts that I had already specifically noted why I don't want. Why can't all of you be like that guy, and actually read what I'm actually asking before trying to post...

    ontopic: I guess at this point I have to give up on the "no smart features" criteria if I want to get anything decent. So, the Sharp Elite then. Is this the very best 1080p LCD TV ever made? I'd be willing to hunt for it if it is.
     
  36. mkrohn

    mkrohn 2[H]4U

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    It's a popular belief because for most people it is a fact. What you're talking about most eyes will never notice. I'm having trouble figuring out the no smart features present. I can understand the 1080 to an extent. My 4k that I use as a MONITOR is always hooked to my PC and the tv just stays on hdmi 2.

    Depending on your software config some upscaling works very well so you could have those 1080 files and play them at 4k and they would look better. Some tvs actually have built in upscaling that is better than others. rtings.com even has a 1080p content rating which is specifically for the upscaling built into the tv. Before you actually cross 4k tvs off look a bit further.
     
  37. GodOfGaming

    GodOfGaming Limp Gawd

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    Upscaling will never beat native resolution where each pixel from the source content is displayed on exactly 1 pixel on the panel, no ammount of scaling will give you that same result. So at that point I'm paying for a 4K panel that I will never gonna use for 4K content and get inferior image just for the sake of having "the latest and greatest"
     
  38. Wade88

    Wade88 [H]Lite

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    OP needs an expensive commercial TV or deal with smart features and just never connect it to his LAN, or sit there with no TV.
     
  39. Sancus

    Sancus Gawd

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    Yes I think so. They show up from time to time, generally for local pick up only. There was a 60 and 70 inch version made, and at the time the pricing was absurd(something like $6-8K IIRC). The age of the panel would be my biggest concern, if someone has put a lot of hours on it the brightness may be completely shot y now, or you could find one that was only used a couple hours per day and has less than 5k hours on it, in which case it may still function for years to come. Really hard to say with used TVs this old.

    All that said, I think that the last generation of plasmas are fine in terms of image retention. I've left Windows desktop backgrounds up on my Samsung PN60F8500 for 8+ hours and it has no burn-in. The F8500 series was also the brightest plasma ever made, reaching over 300 nits, making it the only plasma equally suitable for bright room viewing. It didn't have blacks quite as good as the Panasonics, but still better than LCDs and of course it also has great motion as all plasmas do. So I would keep an eye out for one of those as well if you're set on 1080P.
     
  40. Viper87227

    Viper87227 Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I think you are failing to consider an important element here, which is that TV's have come a long way in the past several years. Even if we operate under your logic that upscaled 1080p will never look as good as native 1080p, there are other features in modern TV's besides resolution that contribute towards their superior image quality. Full-Array Local Dimming, for example, can make an astounding difference in how good an LED TV looks. I have little doubt that an upscaled image on a modern TV will put a native 1080p image on an older TV to shame. My point is, if you buy a good 4K TV, you are in fact paying for features you WILL see the benefit of, even if you never watch 4K content. I know that's likely to make you grumpy, but you're being extremely narrow minded in regards to what you want. You need to consider the fact that there are elements to modern TVs that far outweigh the reasons you've dismissed them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018 at 9:00 AM
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