I can't believe what people are paying for 2500K and 3570K combos

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Nov 10, 2005
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I'm sitting here, wanting to build a new family room PC to replace my aging 2500K, and my HTPC hooked up to my projector with a 3570K, but can't justify spending the money.
I know someone that had a few kodi boxes and he didn't want to build pc's but needed an upgrade. how about something small and cheap like these?
run like on 18w power!!!!

$110 - complete less O/S but win7 LIC inc. - Lenovo M72e Tiny Thinkcentre i3-2220T 2.8GHz 500GB HDD 4GB RAM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-M72e-Tiny-Thinkcentre-i3-2220T-2-8GHz-500GB-HDD-4GB-RAM-No-OS-6A4/323641052919?hash=item4b5a828ef7:g:-dkAAOSwHDdcNRDs:rk:8:pf:0&LH_BIN=1


$20 more -
Lenovo ThinkCentre M92p Tiny i5 2.9GHz 4GB 320GB Windows 8.1 Microsoft Office

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkCentre-M92p-Tiny-i5-2-9GHz-4GB-320GB-Windows-8-1-Microsoft-Office/202568181197?hash=item2f2a0125cd:g:QQMAAOSwjB9a0YUk:rk:31:pf:0&LH_BIN=1



I have one of these running 24x7 for my home automation (homeseer) and love this little thing. fast and low power....

had it as an htpc originally but now using Roku ultra and apple 4k tv boxes so no real use anymore...
 

XoR_

Gawd
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Technically no, but...
you can mod z170 motherboards BIOSto run newer processors and there are DDR3 motherboards =)

Linus conclusion that DDR3 limits these processors is wrong. Scores were lower due to insufficient power delivery. Good DDR3 like mine 2400MHz CL10 are pretty sufficient for these new Intel CPU's

Of course running unsupported CPU's on old motherboard is only for those who want to put a lot of effort into this hobby and from what I saw on internets there is a lot a lot of effort needed. I must say though that it would be pretty awesome to have newest 8 core CPU on Z170 DDR3
 

Digital Viper-X-

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If you think that is bad, LGA 1366 boards are going for that price alone, some higher as well, I couldn't find one for under $180 CAD.
 

vick1000

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Uhhh I just put win7 on a 2600x b450 build. Wasn't easy but it is possible.
Officially it's not, and it's certainly a pain to get it working without proir slipstreaming knowledge.
 

grumperfish

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I just sold a 2600K for $100 on eBay along with a bunch of Ivybridge/Haswell i3s and i5s for $40-$60 each. Prices are crazy for older chips, but I understand why people are buying them at least (the i5s and i7s anyways, not the i3s). I almost sold my old ATX Z68XP-US3P rev. 1 board but I decided to keep it, since if the board in my htpc/fileserver ever dies I'd just end up spending the same amount or more for a replacement of unknown lifespan. I bought the 2600 (non-K) and P8Z68 Deluxe in the fileserver for $100 total, but I'd be seriously unlikely to get a similar price if I needed to replace it. Eventually I'll probably just give up and buy a Ryzen combo to swap in, which is really what these eBay buyers should be doing.
 

Ryom

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Uhhh I just put win7 on a 2600x b450 build. Wasn't easy but it is possible.
I just upgraded from my 2500K system a few months ago, I went with a Skylake 6600K build due to the potential for issues with my Win7 install on later chipsets and it was STILL a pain in the ass to get running.

The thing is, I wasn't even hurting with the 2500K... I simply got the upgrade itch. The Sandybridge era CPUs are fucking beasts.

IMG_20181124_035401.jpg IMG_20181124_035246.jpg
 

Staples

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Part of the problem is that not many newer (DDR4) Intel systems are on the used market. You can find tons of used gen 1-3 Intel systems and a few gen 4 and then just about nothing from latter generations. My guess is

1) no reason to upgrade from a 6xxxx series
2) a lot fewer "new" CPUs were bought since everyone uses and iPad for everything

I use a 3770 system and believe me I have been looking to upgrade but not many people selling 6xxx/7xxx series systems. And when I do find them, they want practically full price. I'd rather buy a 8/9xxxx series if I am going to pay several hundred. The additional cores all tons more horsepower to the 8/9xxx series.
 
Joined
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850
Part of the problem is that not many newer (DDR4) Intel systems are on the used market. You can find tons of used gen 1-3 Intel systems and a few gen 4 and then just about nothing from latter generations. My guess is

1) no reason to upgrade from a 6xxxx series
2) a lot fewer "new" CPUs were bought since everyone uses and iPad for everything

I use a 3770 system and believe me I have been looking to upgrade but not many people selling 6xxx/7xxx series systems. And when I do find them, they want practically full price. I'd rather buy a 8/9xxxx series if I am going to pay several hundred. The additional cores all tons more horsepower to the 8/9xxx series.
So i dont keep up with hardware like i used too.. pre ix and i have a i5-4xxx that sits. Was parting out my 6600k... threw out an i5-2400.scrapper got it and a running xeon W55xx as it wont run esxi 6.7.

I was talking to the guys at work and i havent been able to figure out what makes a newer gen cpu better. Smaller die and less wattage and bit faster. At work were doing a win10 upg and i5-3 through i5-5xxx are being chucked due to system out of warranty but it still runs great.

On your 1.. i ended up making my 6600k into server 2019
2. Ipads..yeah with that and phones being so useful my house uses less pcs... ive got too many and removing them. Giving them away. Roku ultra and apple 4k are used in my house for DirecTv now making the intel nucs in those locations useless...
 

cyclone3d

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Right now the price of DDR4 can't really be an excuse. I just bought 32GB of G,Skill 3200 for a little over $200. Back when I bought 32GB of DDR3-2400, it was about $300.

Also snagged a nice x99 board, an ASUS x99-Pro which had a few slightly bent pins which I fixed super easily. Got that board for a whopping $43 shipped.

Contemplating selling my x58 stuff.. but not sure if I will end up regretting it or not.. so it sits there waiting to be made into possible XP builds at some point.

As far as retiring old desktops at work.. absolutely nobody will take them. They only want laptops. So I wipe them, put a fresh copy of Windows 10 on them and give them away to whoever will take them. I can't even send them to a recycling place as the last one around here shut down around 2 years ago.... not that I would send working machines to an electronics recycling place anyway.
 

WBurchnall

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Yeah that’s true. It’s coming back down... slowly. I got lucky and got the 64gb of Dominator ddr4 for about $200 before prices went nuts.
That's a nice amount of ram. 4x16GB kit? Do you recall the name of your kit? I'd be curious to see what the price is now compared to when you got it for $200. My current rig only has 12GB of DDR3 and I feel it sometimes.
 

AltTabbins

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That's a nice amount of ram. 4x16GB kit? Do you recall the name of your kit? I'd be curious to see what the price is now compared to when you got it for $200. My current rig only has 12GB of DDR3 and I feel it sometimes.
I was actually way off. I have 2 32gb Corsair Dominator kits that I got for $200 each.
 

tedych

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You are (were) much much better off just take your time and migrate to some other OS/Linux rather than this meaningless "investment"/behavior of piling up old boards to ensure an ancient OS would work "forever". If all your PC activities are and will be totally offline and by your own then it might be justified. Some factories and some older industrial machines still use XP for some specific manufacturing processes.
Everyone with their oddities :) .
 

RazorWind

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You are (were) much much better off just take your time and migrate to some other OS/Linux rather than this meaningless "investment"/behavior of piling up old boards to ensure an ancient OS would work "forever". If all your PC activities are and will be totally offline and by your own then it might be justified. Some factories and some older industrial machines still use XP for some specific manufacturing processes.
Everyone with their oddities :) .
Plenty of embedded appliance-like applications are still using old OSes. It's pretty common in the aerial surveying industry. I have a $3M airborne lidar scanner that runs XP on one of its subsystems, Windows 7 on another, and DOS on most of the rest. It's 5 or 6 years old now, but reliability is super important in this industry, and the guys that make these systems are understandably leery of Windows 10.
 

CAD4466HK

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Plenty of embedded appliance-like applications are still using old OSes. It's pretty common in the aerial surveying industry. I have a $3M airborne lidar scanner that runs XP on one of its subsystems, Windows 7 on another, and DOS on most of the rest. It's 5 or 6 years old now, but reliability is super important in this industry, and the guys that make these systems are understandably leery of Windows 10.
This.
In the past year I have seen embedded POS systems running XP at CVS, Target, Chase Bank and even my doctor's.
As for W7, my wife has worked for a number of call centers in the last 10yrs that still run W7 on their user machines, Converges, Bright House, AT&T, Amazon, Spectrum.
A lot of the software was developed to run on W7, and the threat of "lack of security updates" means nothing on a locked down network these systems are utilized on.
 

tedych

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They maybe use those old systems because of legacy and/or some particular reasons not being able to update them. And not about reliability or stability. XP is/was more unstable compared to Win7 for example. And talking about DOS...
But when paired with all rigurously tested and strictly choosen drivers and software, even XP could be stable enough for those, as we know. But I had enough of examples of POS terminals and ATMs with XP regularly BSODing and failing :) . So maybe not Win10 for now, but not XP anymore, please.
And here we talk about a desktop/workstation/home computer.
 

daglesj

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People just don't understand value. I like buying used camera lenses.

I see common used tatty lenses on Ebay going for just £10 under what they go for new.o_O

If I'm buying something used on Ebay that's more than 5 years old I don't pay more than 33% of what it cost new. Sure I lose a lot but then I check the end price and people have once again gone stupid and paid £290 for a item that costs £310 new. No loss. But then I get the odd bargain...:cool:
 

dexvx

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The two main driving factors are end of line upgrades and motherboard cost:

1. Motherboards seems to die more frequently than CPU's. They're also far scarcer than CPU's (especially non-OEM models), as people can easily upgrade the CPU. See how X58 boards are still quite pricey, when nearly every i7-9xx (that's not an Extreme) goes for just peanuts. X79 is increasingly like this, as a 3930K/4930K (6C Sandy/Ivy) goes for less than a 2600K/3770K (4C Sandy/Ivy).

2. End of line upgrades are also the priciest. We're talking about the 3770K/2600K and perhaps the 3570K. The 3770K/2600K when overclocked to ~4.5 GHz will likely beat all but the 8 core Ryzens in most desktop use cases. Tons of people who have the i5-2500K or i3's just want a simple drop in upgrade. Thus, demand drives up the price of the 'top tier' of any platform due to the relative convenience.
 

dexvx

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People just don't understand value.

...

If I'm buying something used on Ebay that's more than 5 years old I don't pay more than 33% of what it cost new. Sure I lose a lot but then I check the end price and people have once again gone stupid and paid £290 for a item that costs £310 new. No loss. But then I get the odd bargain...:cool:
And time is not valuable? Far easier to drop in a CPU (3770K) in a LGA 1155 than buying a Ryzen platform.


On the other side of things, some of these are for business/industrial use. If you're the IT guy and you have a system that controls some manufacturing equipment go down (that's costing thousands of $ per hour), you want the *exact* part number as a replacement. Sure, you can get a similar board or upgrade to a Ryzen. But if that crap doesn't work for whatever small anomaly of a reason, good luck explaining that to your boss.

I've actually sold multiple legacy (Pentium II/III/4) motherboards for (what seemed like absurd prices) where they specifically requested same/next day shipping and paid for overnight 8am shipment.
 

daglesj

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And time is not valuable? Far easier to drop in a CPU (3770K) in a LGA 1155 than buying a Ryzen platform.


On the other side of things, some of these are for business/industrial use. If you're the IT guy and you have a system that controls some manufacturing equipment go down (that's costing thousands of $ per hour), you want the *exact* part number as a replacement. Sure, you can get a similar board or upgrade to a Ryzen. But if that crap doesn't work for whatever small anomaly of a reason, good luck explaining that to your boss.

I've actually sold multiple legacy (Pentium II/III/4) motherboards for (what seemed like absurd prices) where they specifically requested same/next day shipping and paid for overnight 8am shipment.

Indeed.

My point is that a lot of people will spend 90% of the cost of a new item/system or the same stuff new...on old or used stuff. If they took a step back and thought for a minute...

By all means get hold of an old part to keep an old system going (say $10 for an old E8400). But only if it's financially viable, which in 99.99999% of domestic cases is sensible.

As you say, if it requires the only $500 10 year old CPU/Motherboard on Ebay to keep your accounts/payroll system going, then by all means go ahead. But I'd also recommend to come up with a contingency plan going forward.
 

vick1000

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Indeed.

My point is that a lot of people will spend 90% of the cost of a new item/system or the same stuff new...on old or used stuff. If they took a step back and thought for a minute...

By all means get hold of an old part to keep an old system going (say $10 for an old E8400). But only if it's financially viable, which in 99.99999% of domestic cases is sensible.

As you say, if it requires the only $500 10 year old CPU/Motherboard on Ebay to keep your accounts/payroll system going, then by all means go ahead. But I'd also recommend to come up with a contingency plan going forward.
Free market drives the cost due to demand, which is why your E8400 is $10 and a 2600K is $100. Demand is relatively high for SB/IB for a reason.
 

Furious_Styles

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Free market drives the cost due to demand, which is why your E8400 is $10 and a 2600K is $100. Demand is relatively high for SB/IB for a reason.
Yeah got to remember that replacing a mobo is still cheaper than buying a new mobo/cpu/mem. And for most people SB/IB still does all they need it to.
 

Ruiner

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Don't forget the windows tax if swapping boards. The multiplier and memory overclocked SB/IB is tough to bottleneck in games, for affordable GPUs anyway. Perhaps the new Ryzen 3000s will make it worthwhile, but I don't see any cutting edge must-have games in the near future. It's sequels and console ports all the way down.
 

daglesj

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Free market drives the cost due to demand, which is why your E8400 is $10 and a 2600K is $100. Demand is relatively high for SB/IB for a reason.

Well in the case I'm talking about it's mainly idiots paying full price for used goods when they could buy the same/similar/better item brand new.
 

brentsg

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I sold a 3570K setup and a 4790k setup.. both were crazy. The 4790K motherboard sold for more than I paid for it years ago when it was new.
 

vick1000

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Well in the case I'm talking about it's mainly idiots paying full price for used goods when they could buy the same/similar/better item brand new.
Full price for "new" enthusiest LGA 1155 motherboards (z68/z77) is around $300 to $400.
 

daglesj

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Full price for "new" enthusiest LGA 1155 motherboards (z68/z77) is around $300 to $400.
Yes and I'll say it again...folks will still pay $295 to $395 for a USED one, not a NEW (old stock or whatever) one.

Wouldn't anyone in that situation pay the extra $5 for the one in a box still wrapped in clingfilm rather than wrapped in dust and nicotine?
 

Deadjasper

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I've looked at several workstations, haven't found one that holds 22 hard drives.

I really need a proper server but I am always a bit leery about getting too proprietary. That's why I like Supermicro, they have motherboards that don't require strange PSUs or odd size formats.
You don't know Supermicro very well.
 
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