Huawei Launches Kunpeng 920 ARM Server CPU

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by AlphaAtlas, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. AlphaAtlas

    AlphaAtlas [H]ard|Gawd Staff Member

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    Huawei just announced what they claim to be "the industry's highest-performance Advanced RISC Machine (ARM)-based CPU." The Kunpeng 920 features 64 cores running at 2.6 Ghz, 8 channel DDR4 memory, 2 100G RoCE ports, and support for PCIe 4.0 and CCIX devices. Huawei says they built the server processor on a "cutting-edge" (presumably TSMC) 7nm process, and that the cores are custom designs. The Chinese company is clearly aiming to compete with the incumbents in the x86 server market, but a company official mentioned that "Huawei and Intel will continue our long-term strategic partnerships and continue to innovate together." Huawei's server business is currently struggling with some significant political issues, but they're still a huge player in the global server market. Amazon recently announced their own ARM server CPUs for AWS, and I doubt this is the last ARM server-related announcement we'll hear in 2019.

    Check out the Kunpeng video here.


    It significantly improves processor performance by optimizing branch prediction algorithms, increasing the number of OP units, and improving the memory subsystem architecture. At typical frequency, the Kunpeng 920 CPU scores over 930 in the SPECint Benchmarks test, which is 25% higher than the industry benchmark. At the same time, power efficiency is 30% better than that offered by industry counterparts. Kunpeng 920 provides much higher computing performance for data centers while slashing power consumption.
     
  2. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    And of course it dumps your memory and sends it back to party headquarters on a regular basis, right? :p
     
  3. Darth Ender

    Darth Ender Limp Gawd

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    phoning home would tip everyone off.

    Instead, it would have a kill switch that listens for an undocumented instruction and then it turns off, corrupts data etc.

    The fear in the US is not that chinese tech companies are going to steel stuff..they already do. It's that we'll become dependent on their hardware and then when war breaks out, they'll just turn off all our stuff.
     
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  4. jcollett69

    jcollett69 Limp Gawd

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    ARM RISC architecture is becoming more and more powerful while using less power than x86. Apps compiled for ARM have been working the same or in some cases better than the same apps compiled in x86. ARM really looks to be the future with x86 heading out.
     
  5. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    Intel management works with a scenario where ARM replaces x86.

    However this is not the 7nm ARM server I am awaiting. I am awaiting for the ThunderX3 and eMAG 2.
     
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  6. Mega6

    Mega6 [H]ard|Gawd

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    RISC vs CISC is not so simple. There are apps (and always will be) where ARM will never compete against x86/64. Something as menial as a NAS server? Sure use an ARM. Try a Scientific Application. Forget it.
     
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  7. BloodyIron

    BloodyIron 2[H]4U

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    Which is more trustworthy, Intel management engine, or Chinese manufacturers? Which Devil do you trust?

    What if Chinese silicon actually doesn't invade your privacy? Would we believe them?
     
  8. Darth Ender

    Darth Ender Limp Gawd

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    considering that the attack would likely not be targetted when it occurs, and just be a blanket attack on entire subnets, it's unlikely you would have to fear such a kill switch attack from your own government when they run the same hardware, also on the internet, on many various subnets. The chaos that would cause a government looking to attack it's own people would likely be more of a problem than it's worth as it would cause chaos and confusion within their own ranks.

    Opposed to an outside party who would be unaffected internally by such an attack on a foreign entity.

    keep in mind, china and russia have been fearing this same thing for at least a couple decades. That's why they've been focused on designing (stealing, controlling) their own hardware.

    It's an arms race of mutually assured "safety" ....probably just paranoia but not really something you want to trust your frenemies at the word on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  9. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Chinese designed silicon, what could go wrong? :rolleyes:
     
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  10. cjcox

    cjcox [H]ard|Gawd

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    Am I the only one that thinks, "finally, a cloud based way to run all my Raspberry Pi apps?"
     
  11. Tak Ne

    Tak Ne [H]ard|Gawd

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    From what I've read of what is actually going on it seems to me to be one government trying to convince everyone not to use Chinese tech companies for their 5G deployment using massive amounts of FUD. Accusations quoting other accusations as 'proof'' with no unbiased parties offering any actual evidence.
     
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  12. Mega6

    Mega6 [H]ard|Gawd

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    5G infrastructure and security is very important. I would hope that the domestic 5G is not infiltrated by products of a foreign design and manufacture. Especially by a country that is known to actively hack everyone and sponsors intellectual theft. The private corporations developing 5G products here are not widely susceptible to government control as they are in a centrally controlled Communist country. It would not be wise to trust a country that has such lofty goals willing to achieve those by any means or price necessary.

    There is no "proof" necessary as all of what I have spoken to is widely know and obvious to any casual observer of the present state of the world.
     
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  13. Tak Ne

    Tak Ne [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm trying to avoid this gettiing political so i wont respond to one-sided claims of obviousness.

    The simple fact is that Huawei makes some good products and this CPU looks to be one of them.
     
  14. Mega6

    Mega6 [H]ard|Gawd

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    so that's your out? LOL good rebuttal. bye.

    Edit: you are the one that continued the political end. I have already responded to some of the technical aspects. So, you've extended the political argument and then bailed when it's followed up. Good one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  15. BloodyIron

    BloodyIron 2[H]4U

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    There are some circumstances with actual evidence of traffic being routed to China for brief periods of time. I agree with you generally though, it is primarily FUD in a time when we need actual evidence.

     
  16. Mega6

    Mega6 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Reputations are EARNED. Legitimate or not - there is a price to pay for being a consistant "bad actor" on the world stage. Some people learn the hard way, others never learn.
     
  17. Makaveli@BETA

    Makaveli@BETA 2[H]4U

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    lmao I read that quickly and thought it said "2 100G RiCE ports"
     
  18. mesyn191

    mesyn191 2[H]4U

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    For servers? Not really. Pretty much all the ARM server vendors are doing poorly. AWS's homebrew chip is more of a long term development thing. Basically they're expecting to pay off maybe in 5yr or so. Same thing with this chip. Use cases are mostly niche right now.
     
  19. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well if 99% of the scientific work is being offloaded to GPUs and ASIC co processors. Then all that really matters is how much data can be shunted per watt burned.

    So if you add to that ARMs ability to licence any tech company and allow them to custom build silicon with custom ASIC right on the silicon. x86 starts to look less attractive even in those highly computation heavy situations.

    I agree is not as simple as arm will get faster at lower watt and wins. The use case matters a ton. I just don't see the cases where x86 wins today being sustainable long term as more of that work gets moved to cloud type servers where companies like Amazon can design / pay for much faster custom ASICs to bake into their own chips.
     
  20. Mega6

    Mega6 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Your 99% is pretty far fetched and the general computing case using cisc will always supersede specialty cases. My scientific example was just that - one example. Surprised you keyed off of just that. I have yet to see one ARM Box at a financial institution. Ever.

    Not many companies can afford custom ASIC or does it even fit. Gpus are niche as well. The point being cisc is mainstream and will be for some time. Every time someone comes out with a new ARM it s like here is an article on how the sun is setting on x86/64. That's just not reality.
     
  21. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    No worries about x86 vs Arm or Risc vs Cisc.. watch how AMD fuses those together in the next 5 years... Some "bridge "extra instructions, and presto! 2 architectures 1 os.
     
  22. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well that is sort of my point. Most companies don't buy custom ASIC no... but more and more of those companies also don't buy servers anymore. Amazon building their own ARM processors is a huge threat to Intel... and AMD. It isn't just Amazon either, Alibaba announced they are creating their own in house AI Asics as well.... they also spun off their own silicon company Pingtouge. The Alibaba news isn't ARM vs X86 related... I think it just goes to show that the big cloud server players are thinking about how best to solve large scale computing problems and the big cloud companies seem to be looking at ASICs and lower power farms for the rest of the tasks.

    I'm not saying or arguing that x86 is going to drop to 0% in any market there in now any time soon. Don't get me wrong no ARM isn't going to jump into a leading position tomorrow or even in the next 5 years. But I think a lot of people will be surprised to see ARM servers quickly jump to 10-30% of a handful of markets where ARM makes sense cause any real work is being done by various Asics like AI accelerators, tensor stuffs ect... and GPU compute.

    You mention banks... and your right Banks aren't moving to the cloud, and they are risk adverse. They won't likely be moving on mass to ARM or any other arch for 30 years. But lets be honest. In 30 years the banks are likely all still going to be running Intel servers. Let me rub my Crystal ball and read a want ad for you from 2049, "Large regional bank, requires programmer fluent in C, C+++, python and go. Must have working understanding of Fortran." I joke but ya banks are the one market that Intel can probably count on even if AMD was to release x86 server chips that where 3x more powerful at 1/2 the wattage for a solid decade. lol (and to be honest as long as they are dealing with security, we are all likely better off with the banks being super risk adverse when it comes to IT)
     
  23. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    They did build a fully functioning ARM "zen" core. They put it on the shelf deciding to focus completely on x86 and making some much needed money. (marketing, selling, and supporting both would have been a lot more expensive... and before zen 1.0 AMDs cash flow was not so hot)

    So now that you mention it. Chipletts .... big.LITTLE. I mean why not.... they are more or less letting the Chinese make custom zen parts. A Zen chip with both x86 and ARM chiplettes on board isn't as crazy sounding today as it was at one time. Imagine servers with both cores... running ARM 95% of the time with the x86 cores dealing with what they do best... and the ARM cores taking care of all the simple stuff at super low watt usage.

    It sounds crazy... but if a company like Amazon or Alibaba asked AMD to build it they have all the parts on the shelf already.
     
  24. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    FYI, ARM servers are used in scientific applications. We have HPC clusters build around ThunderX2, including petascale supercomputers as Astra, and the first exascale supercomputer is based on ARM. Huawei also has plans for ARM CPU for HPC
     
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  25. YeuEmMaiMai

    YeuEmMaiMai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    problem is once you are caught doing it, no one in their right mind wants your stuff no matter how good it is...
     
  26. Jinto

    Jinto [H]ard|Gawd

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    China should be a lot more worried about the U.S. backdoors than vice versa. Just look at the percentage of overall CPU imports for China and supercomputers in China on TOP500 list. The same arguments made against Huawei can be made against Intel/AMD. How do you know the processor you are using doesn't have backdoors planted by the NSA? Rationally you would know via evidence based analysis of the product itself. However, as with 5G, there hasn't been much evidence of backdoors, but the roadblocks are there regardless.
     
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  27. Darth Ender

    Darth Ender Limp Gawd

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    Only if you believe that all US companies are shills for the government. Evidence points to the contrary that this is the case in most industries as US companies are usually not state controlled or run and often, have non-US ownership even if they started out as US companies.

    That's very different from places like China and Russia, where state control of local companies was/is the standard way things have worked for decades.
     
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  28. Jinto

    Jinto [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just because a company is not state owned, does not mean it is not state controlled or cooperate closely with the state. You are running into the problem of innocence until proven guilty. Through the eyes of cynicism there will always be guilt, whether it is substantiated or not.
     
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  29. Darth Ender

    Darth Ender Limp Gawd

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    Cynicism is not paranoia, which is what you describe. Cynicsim is about planning for negative outcomes because you believe the best outcomes are rare. It's not believing everyone is evil and out to get you.

    The American government isn't even in the same ballpark as China and Russia. On every level the situation is different. From rules against foreign ownership of local businesses to what companies have to do when the government comes knocking. The only way you could rope the US in with those kinds of nation's is if you think all the laws and news about companies resisting illegal gvmnt requests are a public farce and they secretly comply. Which is paranoia. At that point reality is whatever you imagine it to be and there's no point in discussing anything.
     
  30. Jinto

    Jinto [H]ard|Gawd

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    Cynicism and paranoia is not that different, it is just a matter of severity and severity is subjective. The flip side of the coin is that there are also news reports of U.S. government spying. Are some news more trustworthy than other news? Maybe. However if I knew for sure which is real news and which is fake news I would be a much wealthier man. What I can do is treat all news with a dose of skepticism and do my own research to understand all angles of an issue to form my own judgement.

    You didn't get the original point anyway. I simply stated that the perception is the same on the other side of the pacific and used CPU imports as an example of extreme dependency on a rival. Therefore this Huawei product is less a vehicle to spy on the U.S. than China defending against U.S. spying, whether it exists or not. What is needed is a set of agreed upon standards to allay those fears and facilitate a fair market for everyone. I will leave the 'how' part to Trump's negotiators...
     
  31. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    Citation needed. Which "apps" are you talking about, because they're dead on windows 10.
     
  32. Mega6

    Mega6 [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is incorrect. Look up both in a dictionary. Cynicism can based on prior experience and knowledge, paranoia is NOT. What we have here is a clear record of a government and society based on outright IP theft to release itself on dependency of any kind technology and otherwise from anyone else. Selfish greed. See the "Made in China 2025".

    Well of course, see NSA, CIA and others. These agencies main mission is NOT IP theft and 2025. See above and look up the counterparts in China. You will find (as you already know of course) that multiple military and private citizens have be indicted and sanction for hacking, theft and other crimes.

    Absolutely agree. Know your sources and their motivation.

    Not following how Implanting Huawei 5G product in the domestic communications infrastructure is "less a vehicle than China defending against U.S. spying, whether it exists or not." Can you try that again? Please translate.

    What is needed is for Countries and Governments to respect Intellectual Property. To not be so self-serving and greedy as to force foreign companies to give up their intellectual property just to do business in said country. That is what the trade negotiations are about.

    Countries should not to outlay plans for building a self-sourced domestic technology initiative by 2025 by any means necessary for global domination if they want to do business in this world.
     
  33. Jinto

    Jinto [H]ard|Gawd

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  34. Mega6

    Mega6 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Semantics at this point. I don't think it's paranoid basing something on known prior behavior.

    Sure, see above and emphasis on prior behavior. The trade talks should enforce a lesson to be learned. Protectionist policy is only met with retaliation. See what I am saying here?

    5) What we are saying is the same. Standards can apply to many things, key word here is fair.[/QUOTE]
    Fair? That's amusing and I have serious doubts on that one. Cynicism? Probably.
    Just remember whom imitated the protectionist policies. Hard to deal with a government that has a long term goal of dominating the world, isn't it? Too bad the short sighted pubic doesn't see it. At least we have a President now that does.
     
  35. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    This Huawei server doesn't run on Windows 10.
     
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