HTC Vive Owners Thread

[Dayaks]

There's no replacement for actual pixels. It'll be more relevant to some games than others obviously, but even just standing in the SteamVR house thing, I can see a marked difference between the Rift and Vive Pro. Something else I think is worth mentioning about the Vive Pro that was noticeably different from my Rift is the gamma seems to be WAY better. The game I play the most is Elite Dangerous, and with the Rift the background of space is kind of a gray. With the Vive Pro, it's really black. I'm not sure about the OG Vive - I've only ever seen one of those in a store for about 30 seconds.

I don't have the wireless adapter, but I believe it works by replacing the link box and its cables with a Wi-Gig card (plus an external antenna you have to mount somewhere) at the PC end, and the little horned link box doohickey at the HMD end. The battery apparently also straps onto the HMD, so you could continue your pants-free VRing without the need to wear a belt, if you so chose.

Edit: Are you sure you don't have the straps too tight? I went through what you're experiencing too initially, where I would make the straps so tight it would hurt after 45 minutes or so, but I eventually realized that at least for sit down games, I didn't need it that tight. Once I loosened it up, the problems went away.

You might also try a different face pad from VRCover or the like. This apparently makes a big difference.

Unrelated:
Dayaks - Do you notice that, with the Vive Pro, Steam and SteamVR are really unstable, or that, when starting some games, it tabs away from the game, and you then have to switch back with the wand (a bummer if the game doesn't use the wands, and you have to fumble around for them with the HMD on?

The Rift just works as expected, but both the Odyssey+ I tried out and the Vive Pro do this, with the Vive Pro being a lot worse about it.

I’ve never had any of that happen. Is it game specific?

 

[TroubleMagnet]

Proud new Vive Pro owner here. I also have (and love) an Oculus Rift

Initial impressions:
* When this works, it's fucking awesome. The resolution difference is noticeable.
* Super comfy for me (a skinny white person)
* The HMD feels flimsy - disappointing for $1400
* I think the tracking is better than Oculus', particularly of the handy twiddles. It seems less jittery
* Speaking as a professional airborne lidar surveyor, the idea of real-time quasi-lidar tracking of objects in my house is unspeakably cool. Especially these new boxes with what I assume are palmer scanners.
* The handy twiddles themselves aren't as good as Oculus.' What is the grip button on these even for?
* Oculus really makes HTC and Valve look like amateurs, software wise. The Oculus software just works in my experience, whereas the Vive Pro's really took some fiddling to get working, and even then it just kinda hangs all the time. The VR house thing in particular takes an unacceptably long time to load.

The boxes are not palmer scanners. They do use lasers, but not the same way LIDAR does. LIDAR sweeps the area with a laser while looking for reflections with sensor(s) on the plane. The VIVE boxes also sweep the area with a laser but don't have any input sensors in them. The sensors to detect the laser are in the headset and controllers. The first generation boxes also have non-directional IR LED strobes, but the version 2 ones replace the LED function and instead modulate the laser beam to encode a bunch of timing and angle info. I think they still may have the LEDs to support the older hardware, as you also need to upgrade the hardware in the headset and controllers to be able to decode the data stream in the beam. The version 2 system has better range and will eventually lower cost, assuming they ditch the LEDs, than V1. It's a really interesting system, and in my IMHO technically superior to the occulus. I've got both the VIVE and Oculus CV1 and the VIVE tracking has a bit better range, but only by about a foot. I don't have any of the V2 hardware yet, holding out for them to come out with updated controllers with the V2 system and better ergonomics. The version 2 tracking also allows more boxes to be used in the same area, not sure if there is a limit with it. I think the V1 can only have 2-3 in use at a time. So the V2 tracking system opens up the possibility of tracking for an entire house, or office, or warehouse. You could do the same with the Oculus camera sensors but you'd need a lot more of them as they have shorter range and I think a narrower useable max angle.

Sorry for the wall of text. TL;DR VIVE has better tracking for large areas. I like the ergonomics of the Occulus better, for this generation.

 

[RazorWind]

I’ve never had any of that happen. Is it game specific?

It seems to be the most obvious with Elite Dangerous, but The Lab does it too. it seems to have to do with how long it takes the game to load. Beat Saber loads up really fast, and doesn't do it, but ED takes FOR-EV-ER, and does it the worst.

It's also maybe somehow related to SteamVR Home. It seems like it's hanging when it first starts up about 3/4 of the time, and then Steam somehow gets hung up waiting on it. If I kill any of the processes, there's not getting any of them going again without a reboot.

I wonder if it could have to do with communication with the lighthouses. It complained when I set it up that they're too far apart, although they otherwise seem to work, and I've also noticed that my wireless mouse and keyboard are kinda flaky, like there's too much RF noise, and will occasionally just quit working until I turn them off and back on.

The boxes are not palmer scanners. They do use lasers, but not the same way LIDAR does. LIDAR sweeps the area with a laser while looking for reflections with sensor(s) on the plane. The VIVE boxes also sweep the area with a laser but don't have any input sensors in them. The sensors to detect the laser are in the headset and controllers. The first generation boxes also have non-directional IR LED strobes, but the version 2 ones replace the LED function and instead modulate the laser beam to encode a bunch of timing and angle info. I think they still may have the LEDs to support the older hardware, as you also need to upgrade the hardware in the headset and controllers to be able to decode the data stream in the beam. The version 2 system has better range and will eventually lower cost, assuming they ditch the LEDs, than V1. It's a really interesting system, and in my IMHO technically superior to the occulus. I've got both the VIVE and Oculus CV1 and the VIVE tracking has a bit better range, but only by about a foot. I don't have any of the V2 hardware yet, holding out for them to come out with updated controllers with the V2 system and better ergonomics. The version 2 tracking also allows more boxes to be used in the same area, not sure if there is a limit with it. I think the V1 can only have 2-3 in use at a time. So the V2 tracking system opens up the possibility of tracking for an entire house, or office, or warehouse. You could do the same with the Oculus camera sensors but you'd need a lot more of them as they have shorter range and I think a narrower useable max angle.

Sorry for the wall of text. TL;DR VIVE has better tracking for large areas. I like the ergonomics of the Occulus better, for this generation.

I know; hence why I said "quasi-lidar." Like I said, I am a professional airborne lidar surveyor. The term you're looking for that differentiates the Vive system from a true lidar system is "time of flight." The HTC system still uses scanner position and timing, but it ignores time of flight and instead uses trigonometry to determine range to the detector.

IMHO, it's not necessarily superior to Oculus' system in that it requires moving parts and much more elaborate timing and electronics. Its biggest advantage that I can see is that the stationary sensors don't require a data cable, and possibly also that there's less CPU overhead required, since there's no photogrammetry required to turn the raster images from the cameras into vectors. I could totally imagine a third or fourth generation coming up with an ASIC to handle this so it only transmits the vectors back to the host PC.

Edit: The V2 lighthouses don't have the sync array at all; you can't use them with OG Vives as a result.

 

[Pegi]

Re: Vive Wireless Adapter...I've been watching a few youtube vids, and a number of them have mentioned excessive heat, some so excessive that the guy had a burn on his head. You guys with the adapter...have you also noticed this? Are you having to compensate for it by putting something between your head and the adapter...or is this much ado about nothing?

 

[TroubleMagnet]

It seems to be the most obvious with Elite Dangerous, but The Lab does it too. it seems to have to do with how long it takes the game to load. Beat Saber loads up really fast, and doesn't do it, but ED takes FOR-EV-ER, and does it the worst.

It's also maybe somehow related to SteamVR Home. It seems like it's hanging when it first starts up about 3/4 of the time, and then Steam somehow gets hung up waiting on it. If I kill any of the processes, there's not getting any of them going again without a reboot.

I wonder if it could have to do with communication with the lighthouses. It complained when I set it up that they're too far apart, although they otherwise seem to work, and I've also noticed that my wireless mouse and keyboard are kinda flaky, like there's too much RF noise, and will occasionally just quit working until I turn them off and back on.



I know; hence why I said "quasi-lidar." Like I said, I am a professional airborne lidar surveyor. The term you're looking for that differentiates the Vive system from a true lidar system is "time of flight." The HTC system still uses scanner position and timing, but it ignores time of flight and instead uses trigonometry to determine range to the detector.

IMHO, it's not necessarily superior to Oculus' system in that it requires moving parts and much more elaborate timing and electronics. Its biggest advantage that I can see is that the stationary sensors don't require a data cable, and possibly also that there's less CPU overhead required, since there's no photogrammetry required to turn the raster images from the cameras into vectors. I could totally imagine a third or fourth generation coming up with an ASIC to handle this so it only transmits the vectors back to the host PC.

Edit: The V2 lighthouses don't have the sync array at all; you can't use them with OG Vives as a result.

Good points, and I couldn't remember if the V2 lighthouses had the sync array or not. Occulus could fix a lot of the drawbacks with their current system if they did what you suggest and put an ASIC (might be able to get away with a microcontroller or off the shelf SOC) in the cameras, and made them use bluetooth or wifi to talk to the PC or standalone headset. They might get even get an effective range bump too, as right now the USB connections and cabling often cause it to drop down from 1080p to 720p. They could also get more range per unit by upgrading the sensor and/or optics. Race isn't over yet by a long shot, I think the lighthouse system is ahead for now, but it can easily change, and I haven't seen a cost breakdown for the lighthouse boxes vs. the cameras.

One interesting thing they could do with the lighthouse system for cost reduction is to turn them into an optical (IR) mesh network device so they can ditch the bluetooth in the lighthouse modules they have now. Again, it likely comes down to cost, bluetooth vs. optical receiver.

I'm really looking forward to more mature wireless headsets that work with external tracker units. I think the headset out tracking like the Hololens, some of the windows VR sets, and standalone VR systems, being more than a niche product due to controller occlusion issues.

 

[XoR_]

I'm really looking forward to more mature wireless headsets that work with external tracker units. I think the headset out tracking like the Hololens, some of the windows VR sets, and standalone VR systems, being more than a niche product due to controller occlusion issues.

Imho the best solution would be to use both: inside out tracking and outside in tracking at the same time and do not require external sensors at all and make them an optional accessory to eliminate occlusion problem Sensors could be optional and not included even in the headset package driving cost down and outside out tracking would improve portability of the system.

With Oculus solution it would be cheaper as it would only require only to add LEDs on head's itself - though probably this wouldn't be really required as position of controllers could be automatically calibrated using cameras in headset and external sensors when both see them at the same time.

 

[RazorWind]

I actually think the answer eventually is the WMR solution with inside-out camera tracking. If the controllers had onboard cameras, so they don't have to rely on the headset's cameras, it would work pretty great, especially if they could include IR illumination, so you don't HAVE to have the room be well lit.

 

[odditory]

Good points, and I couldn't remember if the V2 lighthouses had the sync array or not. Occulus could fix a lot of the drawbacks with their current system if they did what you suggest and put an ASIC (might be able to get away with a microcontroller or off the shelf SOC) in the cameras, and made them use bluetooth or wifi to talk to the PC or standalone headset. They might get even get an effective range bump too, as right now the USB connections and cabling often cause it to drop down from 1080p to 720p. They could also get more range per unit by upgrading the sensor and/or optics. Race isn't over yet by a long shot, I think the lighthouse system is ahead for now, but it can easily change, and I haven't seen a cost breakdown for the lighthouse boxes vs. the cameras.

This could only happen in the parallel universe where the empty shell Facebook division that calls itself Oculus was still interested in PCVR. But by all signs they're out. We're unlikely to ever see a Rift 2, as their entire focus is now apparently self contained/mobile.

Unclear if HTC is even interested in consumer PCVR anymore or if they've already pivoted 100% to biz/enterprise internally. So it comes down to Valve following through on the next big thing. And counting on Valve for timely followthrough on anything is... hard to do these days.

 

[RazorWind]

This could only happen in the parallel universe where the empty shell Facebook division that calls itself Oculus was still interested in PCVR. But by all signs they're out. We're unlikely to ever see a Rift 2, as their entire focus is now apparently self contained/mobile.

Unclear if HTC is even interested in consumer PCVR anymore or if they've already pivoted 100% to biz/enterprise internally. So it comes down to Valve following through on the next big thing. And counting on Valve for timely followthrough on anything is... hard to do these days.

https://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-s-code-references/

I wouldn't count HTC or Oculus out just yet.

 

[Kajun614]

https://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-s-code-references/

I wouldn't count HTC or Oculus out just yet.

Nice I liked looking at that

 

[sc5mu93]

No detection. It got powered and other cards worked fine (wireless nic pcie 1x).
Just not the Intel WiGig card shipped with the adapter.

Edit:. I'm looking at a new build with ASRock B450M Pro4.

Replying to my own post. I abandoned the mITX ryzen experiment and got a Coffee Lake 8th Gen 6/12 system for cheap (almost free). Board was MicroATX with available pci-e slots. Re-bought vive wireless and had no issues with that setup. (it will take a LOT for me to go back to wired now)

just for testing purposes, I also came across a HP Omen MicroATX board with no x1 or x4 slots (only x16 for gfx). However, it did have the M.2 slot. Plugged in the M.2 to PCI-E 4x adapter and wigig card was recognized immediately.

So in my case, I can narrow it down to something specifically with my ASRock mITX AM4 board, as all components work fine in other systems. just a shame that I had to go to such lengths.

maybe someday i will revisit the mITX build after a few BIOS releases...

 

[Axehandler]

VR is truly an amazing experience and everyone should try it!

I bought the HTC Vive a few months ago and it's been nothing short of amazing.

We have had the Vive since it 1st came out.. GREAT system

We recently bought the new Oculus Quest!

We even play outside with it...