HTC and Motorola: We Don’t Slow Down Phones with Old Batteries Like Apple Does

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Various websites are reaching out to smartphone manufacturers to get insight on something they would probably never admit to doing anyway, based on all the flack Apple is getting. Thus far, HTC and Motorola have insisted that they do not slow down the CPUs in their devices when their batteries get old.

    Apple claims this is not a bug, but a feature. Up until last week, Apple had not publicly acknowledged slowing down older iPhones, and it was not clear that the reason for slower iPhones was actually in the battery. All of this has spurred questions whether slowing down the processor of the phone based on its battery age is not a common practice among phone makers.
     
  2. Trepidati0n

    Trepidati0n [H]ardForum Junkie

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    In terms of a lawsuit, this will cost apple because it does not fit the "common x" narrative. Simply put if you did a survery asking anything about this it would come back as WTF by any party. Thus is can easily be painted as misleading and malevolent in a civil case.

    There is on way they can rationalize this as any other idea than to sell their next widget. Have them show us the focus groups that said "yeah, I want my phone to slow down so I can keep battery life".
     
  3. SomeoneElse

    SomeoneElse [H]ard|Gawd

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    Its not a story of what they did but how they went about it. They did everything on the stealth until someone found it out and put it on blast. Now they have to answer for it.
    I just find it funny everyone else is jumping on it saying " we won't do what Apple did". Kinda like everyone roasted the Note 7 for exploding phones...... it all comedy to me.
     
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  4. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    It slows down when the battery has reached degraded levels and can’t supply appropriate voltage levels without crapping out.

    When this happens on most android phones they just shut off at 30% charge for seemingly no reason.

    I personally would take a slower phone rather than unexpected shutdowns / no battery life.

    But idiots don’t understand this nuance with our current outrage culture.
     
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  5. King of Heroes

    King of Heroes 2[H]4U

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    HTC and Motorola also don't update their phones past 2 years like Apple does. They really don't have room to boast.
     
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  6. Advil

    Advil [H]ard|Gawd

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    No, the question is why they would choose this rather than just letting the end user change the battery...
     
  7. BlueFireIce

    BlueFireIce [H]ardness Supreme

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    Indeed. I will agree it's shitty to not state as much, however knowing many friends with older Android phones that hang and crash, or just shut off or reboot at random when under 40%, most of which could very well be due to the lack of the battery being able to support the needed current. So I am not sure having an unusable phone with an older battery is somehow better than a slower working phone with an older battery.

    What this should highlight is the need for removable batteries again, as the most common reason for people I know (outside of those who just have to have something new), are that the better is done in a few hours, or the phone shuts off or has some sort of issue below 30-40% battery, these people not being into tech, have no idea how to open them up and replace the built in battery. God I miss the days of having a spare battery in a charger and my phone getting low and popping in a fresh one and 100% in 5 seconds, rather than being forced to stay around a charger or bulky battery bank.
     
  8. TrailRunner

    TrailRunner Limp Gawd

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    Overwhelmingly, the average user (which is who Apple targets) doesn't care about a swappable battery. They do want a phone that is thin and light, and engineering a swappable battery requires either extra weight and a thicker device, or a smaller battery.

    What's great is that there are choices. When battery replaceability is important to you, get a phone that offers it. When you want a super thin and light device, and don't care about the battery, get that device, which will happen to have a non-user serviceable battery. And there's no reason to shit on a device that you personally would never buy that doesn't do what you want it to do, because at the end of the day there is a plethora of options so everyone can find something that suits their unique wants and needs.
     
  9. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    I would be fine with that if the manufacturer/phone itself actually told you this was happening. Kinda sounds like they just did it without anyone being notified, though.
     
  10. Ultima99

    Ultima99 [H]ardness Supreme

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    What about the idiots that don't understand they clearly need to recalibrate their Android battery?

    https://www.androidpit.com/how-to-calibrate-the-battery-on-your-android-device
     
  11. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    I'm not aware of any flagship phone from any manufacturer these days that isn't a sealed unit. So complaining about Apple's phones being like this and not directing the same complaint at Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, etc seems idiotic to me.

    There are Android models that still have a hot-swappable non-sealed design, but these aren't flagships.
     
  12. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    They did actually put this in the patch notes of the iOS version update in question. Granted, it didn't say in explicit terms that it was going to 'slow down phones with a crapped out battery' but it's going to be enough to cover them legally IMO besides maybe in socialist hell holes like France where they are going to gouge Apple just because it's not a EU based company. Doing a class action against apple for 'forced obsolescence' is laughable. It shows a complete lack of understanding of our current limitations of battery technology.

    I don't see any situation where Apple wouldn't face outrage in this case. They had three options -

    A.) Do nothing, and iPhones would have the same random power-offs like many Android phones do. (And before the update I definitely recall my older iPhone 6 randomly shutting off when the battery got down to around 10%-30%)

    B.) Put in an annoying pop-up every time you startup the phone saying this feature has been enabled, and that you need to replace the battery. If they did this people would then complain anyways that Apple was trying to 'gouge' people for battery replacements / new phones.

    C.) Or do what they did in the hopes that our current retard outrage culture wouldn't go full retard / catch on anyways.

    Every option would have resulted in outrage culture backlash.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  13. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    I disagree.
    A)- I can't see how any reasonable person would have 'outrage' towards apple batteries die, and if they use high quality one, they would have the best around anyway.
    B) there is not need for annoying pop-ups, a toggle in battery settings, turn this on if you are experiencing such and such.. a short explanation of perfomance hit due to old battery and so on. Plus they shouldn't gouge people for battery replacements, but hey If they can, they can I guess.
    C) What they did was the worse choice, just hide it, hope no one notices, and hehe bonus: you phones feels slower, time for a new one!!, as opposed to a new battery.
     
  14. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    So why isn't anyone showing this outrage towards Android manufacturers who don't even have this 'feature' and their phones just start shitting the bed when the battery degrades?
     
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  15. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Because batteries die, and most get that?
    Hey I am all for user-replaceable batteries.
    Actually I am for government regulation demanding standard formats, and user replaceable batteries.. this e-waste shit is a fucking crime, replaceable batteries might help reduce this shit.
     
  16. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    If a flagship phone was offered with a user replaceable battery I would switch immediately, but ultimately with the race for water proof phones/thin-ness I don't see this happening.
     
  17. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    Except there isn't Choice anymore thanks to people like you. Please show me a single premium phone on the market that isn't a fucking phablet that has a swappable battery.
     
  18. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This. I've seen this happen on older iPhones, they will have 18% or so battery left and just shut off. Sometimes in the 22% range. It seems like it would provide the better experience overall and help prolong the life of the device. Now an option would be great, but they aren't doing this out of spite.
     
  19. KnightViper

    KnightViper n00bie

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    I had a Moto X 2014 from Verizon and was pissed that it wasnt going to receive the update to Android 6.0. Now had I owned the Pure edition it would have received the update. Picked up an iPhone 6s and used it till the Pixel dropped. Zero complaints so far.
     
  20. Mohonri

    Mohonri [H]ardness Supreme

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    Actually, ever since the iPhone 6, iphones have been getting thicker: 6.9mm -> 7.1mm -> 7.3mm. I think even Apple figured out that phones had hit the "thin enough that people don't notice any more" dimension. And I'm with you on the lack of flagships with replaceable batteries and <5" screens. The closest you can get is Sony's xperia Z series--they're smaller phones with flagship specs, but still no replaceable batteries.
     
  21. aokman

    aokman Limp Gawd

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    Yup I know mt Galaxy Note 4 would randomly turn off at 30% never happened with an Apple phone.
     
  22. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm still amazed they admitted it. They handed lawyers ammo for a lawsuit instead of making them work for it (by doing research and testing). The minute they did that, every Tom, Dick, and Jerry at Law were tripping over each other to file the first case.

    Tactically, that was a silly decision.
     
  23. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I Still believe it was an appropriate design choice on Apple's part, to favor reliability over performance by slowing devices with worn out batteries.

    This has blown up - however - because of how Apple did it. They did it like they do everything. Completely opaque, hidden and not leveling with their users. If this were something they openly talked about, and maybe even gave users an advanced settings option to enable or disable we would not be having this conversation right now.

    Apple needs to learn one thing from this experience and that is that in our age of information consumers expect companies to be completely transparent with them about everything, and when they aren't consumers will assume that there is a conspiracy going on to defraud them.

    Apple's opaqueness and secrecy has been a huge problem as long as the company has existed.
     
  24. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    explain why my iOS 9.3.3 device is still slow and has random crashes with a new battery?
     
  25. nightfly

    nightfly 2[H]4U

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    Won't make a difference. The vast majority of iphone users have money to spare. They like the convenience of an appliance type phone that just works, and are willing to pay for it. I can appreciate that. But I'm not willing to put up with all the nonsense that goes with it thanks to apple's planned obsolescence.
    What this will do is simply result in a large iphone battery replacement industry. As much as I can't stand itunes, virtually all iphone users seem to embrace it, even to the point where they might need to buy a whole new computer to support their phone. After all, a computer is much cheaper than a new iphone, and for most, it's just like buying another iphone accessory.
     
  26. dandirk

    dandirk [H]ard|Gawd

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    Your idea of "idiot" is definitely different than mine... That is a convoluted process one that I would not expect most people to know. Not sure if you think EVERYONE is into tech like you are.

    This is also a perfect example why people like Apple devices, they want their devices to work without having to unplug, replug and charge your device 20 times.

    Apple's issue was communication and maybe lack of an option but that is pretty typical of Apples MO. You are supposed to trust they know ultimately what is best for their device and ensuring you have a good user experience without worrying about floogle-binder calibration.
     
  27. Patton187

    Patton187 Limp Gawd

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  28. schoolslave

    schoolslave Limp Gawd

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    Because the latest OS is 11.2.1 and not 9.3.3 which is over a year and a half old at this point.
     
  29. Domingo

    Domingo [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I have never had a device's battery deteriorate faster or worse than the one in my Moto X. In 18 months it was at 40% what it shipped at. If that's their solution, I'd rather they slowed it down.
     
  30. Stryker7314

    Stryker7314 Limp Gawd

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    software update “for checking battery health”

    apple dummie- updates phone, slows the heck down, then opens app to tell you why it’s slow

    phone is still slow

    Planned obsolescence still in effect

    nice try apple
     
  31. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    We’ve reached new levels of ineptitude when people like you start claiming that failing old batteries equates planned obsolescence.

    At least the Apple phones still work and don’t shut off at 40% as soon as any compute is required.
     
  32. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX 2[H]4U

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    Which phones shut off at 40% usage? Please try to be specific for once.
     
  33. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    My HTC M8, and my Z3 Compact both do now that they have old batteries. Once the phones get around 30-40% battery they'll randomly start powering off with any real usage.

    My case isn't some outlier - Any phone with an older used battery is going to do this.

    It's amusing you need specific examples given that this is a common issue across the entire cell phone market and has been since smartphones have been a thing for at least a decade now.
     
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  34. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX 2[H]4U

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    I have only owned a smart phone for 5 years so it's not surprising to me that you would know more about them than myself.
     
  35. YeuEmMaiMai

    YeuEmMaiMai Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    status symbol indeed... dies when we want it to..... (or until we get caught).
     
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  36. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    Supposedly the software to slow down phones is in iOS 10.

    Why does keeping my iOS at 9.3.3 slow it down, keeps crashing? If anything it shouldn't be affected. Since there's a new battery in it and no "slow down" software
     
  37. Avalanche

    Avalanche Pendleton - Learn It, Live It, Know It

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    Nope.

    https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1893?locale=en_US

    It was heralded by most news outlets as a "bug fix" update and there was no mention of the battery being the cause of the unexpected shutdowns that users were seeing.

    It wasn't until yesterday that Apple confirmed that a new battery would restore the device's normal speed.

    https://www.apple.com/iphone-battery-and-performance/
     
  38. Avalanche

    Avalanche Pendleton - Learn It, Live It, Know It

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    Probably because iOS 9.3.3 has bugs in it that they later patched?
     
  39. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    Never had speed/crashing issues until close to iPhone X release. :whistle:
     
  40. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    Except a new battery doesn't help...