HP ZR24w

ToastyX

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bb23 said:
Oh yeah, I used a DVI to VGA adaptor to allow the Dell to run off my video card. The HP is on the displayport. The HP had to be set down to 1280x1024. Does any of this matter?
It might. It could have less lag over DisplayPort than over DVI, but I doubt that's the case. You'd have to test again with DVI to make sure.

If there's no lag at lower resolutions, then it probably doesn't have any lag at the native resolution either.

One thing I'm really interested in is if it can do higher refresh rates, but I don't even know where to begin explaining how to do that. It would require adding a custom resolution, but I've seen people have trouble getting valid resolutions to work due to EDID restrictions in Windows. Single-link DVI also doesn't have enough bandwidth to do higher refresh rates at 1920x1200, so it'd have to be done with DisplayPort. The main thing I want to know is if it skips frames or not, which should be easy to see just by moving the mouse cursor. Then I wonder how high it can go. The specs claim it can only do 59-61 Hz, but the specs are never a good indicator of what the monitor can really do.
 

steal

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Yeah I'm definitely curious about high refresh rates. I'll have my display tommorow if fedex tracking is correct. Unfortunately I don't have a displayport video card :( but I'll try over dual-link DVI to see if I can get it running at around 75hz.
 

steal

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It's a 60Hz panel, no matter what refresh you feed it. So, honestly, why bother?

My 2209WA is a "60hz panel" also, but motion is much smoother at 75hz, so that's why. The ea231wmi will run at 80hz without skipping frames, which is even better than that. Newer IPS displays have been shown to run at higher refresh rates than their specs indicate without skipping frames, and I'm hoping the ZR24W will be the same.
 

dark4181

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Wouldn't running at 72Hz allow for smoother playback of certain formats? Like blu-ray or hdtv?
 

mryerse

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I think I read this one goes up to like 80 or 82 but I think that was at lower resolutions and not 1920x1200 so it will be interesting what it can do at native.
 

Blackbird

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Why does the real reviews take that long.
Usually there comes reviews of a product before it even have came out to the stores, but this screen have been out for a while.
Come on review it!
 

CutterX

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Why does the real reviews take that long.
Usually there comes reviews of a product before it even have came out to the stores, but this screen have been out for a while.
Come on review it!
It took Prad.de and Tftcentral 2 and 4 months respectively to publish their reviews of the Nec EA231WMi. :p
And this is screen has only been available since one week or so at two online stores. Most stores won't have it in stock before early april.
 

bb23

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Those shots show the HP has no significant lag, maybe 3 ms max + pixel response time. The bars are drawn from left to right, so the newest right-most bar is what you want to look at. The total transition time is less than a frame. The results seem consistent too, with no tearing.
In considering this today I am wanting to make sure I know how you came to this conclusion.

It looks to me like the HP is about 1/2 to 2/3's of a bar behind the CRT. Given the 5ms pixel response rate accounts for about 1/3 of a frame's worth of delay (16ms per frame divided by 5ms = 1/3) the other 1/6-1/3 of a frame delay would be another 2.5 ms to 5 ms, for a total between 7.5 ms and 10 ms of input lag. If this is validated to be the case, it certainly bodes well for this otherwise very nice (especially for the price) monitor, imo.

It does seems to me that the delay is between 1/2 frame to 2/3s of a frame - on average. I guess this is immaterial as it implies that the panel suffers a minimal delay in either case, at least half of which is the pixel response rate.

So, given the pixel response rate of 5ms for this panel does account for half of the above delay, it must matter what response rate a monitor has even in terms of input lag. Is this actually correct? I keep reading that input lag and pixel response rate are independent, but in your analysis the latter certainly directly affects the former - which makes sense to me. Edit: Yeah, obviously the pixel response rate affects the time it takes for the monitor to render the bars.
 
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ToastyX

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The bar starts to show on the HP within about 3 ms of the CRT. The gradient fading in is due to the pixel response time.

Response time specs are not accurate. It's like they just make up numbers now. The best case scenario gray-to-gray response time with overdrive on might be 5 ms, but even that is suspect. IPS panels take maybe 7-10 ms for a black to white transition to complete, so if you want to consider the total transition time, it might be 10-13 ms. It's hard to pinpoint an exact number.

People say lag and response time are independent because response time specs don't include lag. Some "8 ms" monitors have two frames of lag, which would be at least 33 ms. The response time starts after the lag ends.
 

bb23

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Okay, that makes sense to me now, ToastyX. It certainly appears that the HP ZR24w is a winner. I am looking forward to FPS game players' impressions too.

One last noob question (well, maybe not the very last) - people are talking about increasing the Hz rate of their monitor. Can that hurt the monitor, void the warranty, or anything like that?
 

steal

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Okay, that makes sense to me now, ToastyX. It certainly appears that the HP ZR24w is a winner. I am looking forward to FPS game players' impressions too.

One last noob question (well, maybe not the very last) - people are talking about increasing the Hz rate of their monitor. Can that hurt the monitor, void the warranty, or anything like that?

I've been running my 2209WA at 75hz for over a year and haven't had any issues so far...
 

CutterX

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Maybe off topic, but why do the bars seem to be appearing progressively from the top to the bottom? Shouldn't all the pixels light up at once?
 

jiihoo

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Just from pure curiosity; has anybody got time to check how this monitor looks with 1680x1050 resolution? How sharp the picture is with it, etc?

I have had myself some problems when using 1920x1200 resolution with my work monitor (Dell 2408WFP), as the text in documents, browser, etc has been too small for my eyes. Unfortunately 2408WFP doesn't really support 1680x1050, but in ZR24w's spec that resolution is listed. So I was wondering whether ZR24w is really usable with such resolution or not, in case 1920x1200 would be still too much for me?
 

jpeake

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Mine will be delivered tonight. I have an older Dell UltraSharp 20" now (2005FPW). And I play a lot of Bad Company 2, Mass Effect etc. Gaming is my primary concern.

I do have an old Sony CRT in the storage that I could dust off for some lag testing. Unless that has been done already. I need to catch up on all the messages in this thread.

Will post FPS impressions tonight
 

setekh

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Just from pure curiosity; has anybody got time to check how this monitor looks with 1680x1050 resolution? How sharp the picture is with it, etc?

I have had myself some problems when using 1920x1200 resolution with my work monitor (Dell 2408WFP), as the text in documents, browser, etc has been too small for my eyes. Unfortunately 2408WFP doesn't really support 1680x1050, but in ZR24w's spec that resolution is listed. So I was wondering whether ZR24w is really usable with such resolution or not, in case 1920x1200 would be still too much for me?
I suppose that, just like in any other LCD, using it at any resolution but the recommended delivers less than ideal results. If you want a screen with lower pixel density, have you considered a 1920x1200 26''?
 

drtc

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Can any owner post pictures from an angle, to see viewing angles and halo effect of IPS sans polarizer?
 

CutterX

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I ran the input lag utility with my old CRT (on the left) and got this series of pics. I'm guessing that they will mean more to someone else on here than they do to me, as I can't tell if these are good or bad results.
Thanks for the test! It looks like the input lag really is lower than one frame (16,67ms), which is good. Was the monitor set to its native resolution during the test?

Can you please take a few pics from the timer at lagom.nl? It would give clearer results.
 

mrh3138

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The HP was not in its native resolution. It was set at 1280x1024 since that's the highest resolution supported by the CRT. I'd have to hook the CRT back up to do the other test. How much more helpful would that other test be?
 

CutterX

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The HP was not in its native resolution. It was set at 1280x1024 since that's the highest resolution supported by the CRT. I'd have to hook the CRT back up to do the other test. How much more helpful would that other test be?
Not much. Your test already shows that the input lag is quite low. Knowing how much milliseconds that represents could be interesting but it's not vital. ;)
 

ToastyX

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CutterX said:
Maybe off topic, but why do the bars seem to be appearing progressively from the top to the bottom? Shouldn't all the pixels light up at once?
Monitors refresh from top to bottom because that's the way the video signal is received.


mrh3138 said:
I ran the input lag utility with my old CRT (on the left) and got this series of pics. I'm guessing that they will mean more to someone else on here than they do to me, as I can't tell if these are good or bad results.
Those pictures are no good. There's tearing on the HP, and in more than one spot. You need to wait for the tearing to roll off the screen before taking the picture. If the tearing doesn't roll, then the CRT is probably running at a higher refresh rate than the HP. The refresh rates need to match as close as possible. Was the CRT running at 60 Hz?
 

mrh3138

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Alright. The reason I asked is because it was a PITA to hook up the old monitor and upload the pics and everything. I'll let someone else run the test you linked then.
 

mrh3138

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Those pictures are no good. There's tearing on the HP, and in more than one spot. You need to wait for the tearing to roll off the screen before taking the picture. If the tearing doesn't roll, then the CRT is probably running at a higher refresh rate than the HP. The refresh rates need to match as close as possible. Was the CRT running at 60 Hz?

The CRT was running at 60 Hz, but after I was done with the tests, I realized that the HP was running at 59 Hz. That could be the cause of the problem.
 

jiihoo

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I suppose that, just like in any other LCD, using it at any resolution but the recommended delivers less than ideal results. If you want a screen with lower pixel density, have you considered a 1920x1200 26''?

That was my original intention, but the most of the 26" LCDs with IPS-panels (like from NEC) cost over 1000 euros here (in Finland). LG's W2600HP looked promising (at least based on prad.de's review) but they don't sell it anymore here.

(Sorry about offtopic stuff.) :)
 
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jiihoo

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Increase DPI instead of lowering resolution.

Tried it with my Dell, but the results were not really satisfying for some reason.

But let's see. ZR24w looks very promising based on the comments so far. Perhaps 1920x1200 with it won't be an issue anymore for me.
 

setekh

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That was my original intention, but the most of the 26" LCDs with IPS-panels (like from NEC) cost over 1000 euros here (in Finland). LG's W2600HP looked promising (at least based on prad.de's review) but they don't sell it anymore here.

(Sorry about offtopic stuff.) :)
Yeah, that's true. This HP does hit the sweet spot regarding value for money. It'll be a very good replacement to my my fullHD 16'' laptop (I swear, this thing is going to make me blind!).

If you're on a budget, you might want to consider trying to snatch up an used NEC on eBay, or trying to find a Hazro HZ26W. I don't think it gets any better than those for lower pixel densities.
 

Godmachine

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So are these 24 inch version instock on HP's website? or limited? I'm thinking of getting 2 of them to finish my IPS 24 inch setup (I've got a U2410) thoughts anyone?
 

okashira

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I think it's only fair to include the pixel response time in lag measurments. For the time being I decided to standardize on 50% pixel response or so:

Using this method I got an average total response of 13.4 ms to 50% pixel change per bb23's pictures.

I'll post some pics later to better explain how I calculated this ... no imageshack here

That's pretty good. And if this monitor will do 75 or 80 Hz proper, that would make it a real winner for gaming.
 

rogue_jedi

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bah, i was going to order mine today but its out of stock on costcentral.

I placed an order with them anyways, I figure it's been going in and out of stock since it showed up so it'll be back in stock soon enough. I'll find out, I suppose.
 

steal

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I haven't had much luck getting any higher refresh rates running on it yet, just trying cvt reduced blank in the nvidia cp, which works for the 2209wa. Anyone have a link to some info on how to pull edid data/get the right custom timings for higher refresh rates so I can see if higher refresh rates are possible?
 

richierich

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Well I just did some gaming in TF2 and I didn't notice any lag and I still kicked serious behind.
 
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