HP SAS Expander Owner's Thread

hey thanx for the info haileris, still works out a bit more expensive if i order from span, i can get it delivered here from the usa for about £215 inclusive of vat thats a saving of £65 easilly, appreciate your help in pointing out the version number though bro, thanx :)
 
odditory said:
LSI 9211-8i SAS-2.0 HBA (SAS2008 chip) added to dual linking compatibility list. The animation alternates between single and dual SFF-8087 uplinks, and as you can see the scaling efficiency is pretty compelling in terms of sequential transfers. AFAIC this is the high watermark for HBA's right now for anyone with more than 8 drives running JBOD or software raid, I've seen them go for $150 NIB on ebay.

Test setup: LSI 9211-8i (IT firmware) + HP SAS Expander 2.02
System: Norco RPC-4224, Supermicro MBD-X8SIL-O MB, Xeon X3440 CPU, 8GB MEM (KVR1333D3E9SK2/4G)

16 x Hitachi 2TB in Windows Raid0, NTFS 64k clusters
o624NS.gif


20 x Hitachi 2TB in Windows Raid0, NTFS 64k clusters
gVCo8M.gif
Click to expand...

Wow. I have a 9211-8i to replace a SASUC8i or at least test differences... but why the X8SIL-O not F?!?!
 
odditory said:
LSI 9211-8i SAS-2.0 HBA (SAS2008 chip) added to dual linking compatibility list. The animation alternates between single and dual SFF-8087 uplinks, and as you can see the scaling efficiency is pretty compelling in terms of sequential transfers. AFAIC this is the high watermark for HBA's right now for anyone with more than 8 drives running JBOD or software raid, I've seen them go for $150 NIB on ebay.

Test setup: LSI 9211-8i (IT firmware) + HP SAS Expander 2.02
System: Norco RPC-4224, Supermicro MBD-X8SIL-O MB, Xeon X3440 CPU, 8GB MEM (KVR1333D3E9SK2/4G)
Click to expand...

Hey,

Just double checking here - but it doesn't mater what ports on the HP card you use, right?

I assume you have port 2-7 on the expander going to the drives, and 8 & 9 going internally to the 9211?

[Edit]
Sorry - sorta new on the scene here and trying to get my head around this. As the rear port is still free - are you able to attach an external JBOD full of more disks?
 
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pjkenned said:
Wow. I have a 9211-8i to replace a SASUC8i or at least test differences... but why the X8SIL-O not F?!?!
Click to expand...

Because I don't care about IPMI management, I already have an IP KVM, plus I got an openbox deal for like $105.

MarkL said:
Hey,

I assume you have port 2-7 on the expander going to the drives, and 8 & 9 going internally to the 9211?

[Edit]
As the rear port is still free - are you able to attach an external JBOD full of more disks?
Click to expand...

Yes, and yes (tested it).
 
Yes they definitely cascade. In my case:

Areca 1880i <--2x SFF-8087--> HP SAS Expander #1 <--1x SFF-8088 --> HP SAS Expander #2
 
Hi,

Has anyone tested the LSI 9260 / 9280 series cards recently?

I know that the LSI 9280-8e was found to be incompatible with the HP expander a while back, but I was wondering if more recent firmware (from LSI and/or HP) had fixed the issue - as Areca LSI2108 cards are working well, and also other PMC Sierra based expanders are on the LSI compatibility list:

MegaRAID Value & Feature Line 6Gb/s SAS RAID controllers


- see page 4, there are a couple of Promise JBODs that use PMC Sierra and are 6Gbit/sec.

The LSI firmware tested is 2.110.03-0967 with hardware revision B3

cheers,

Aitor
 
Haven't tested the latest LSI firmware for the 9280, the issues are likely to be in the MSM software as the controller itself detects everything correct(verified from logs) as far as I have tested...
 
Well, the latest MSM and drivers was released on 3 September, with firmware a bit later on 27 September.

I've done a quick search through the MSM release notes and got the following:

Code: 
LSIP200071024 	(DFCT) 	Device tree:MSM showing incorrect port order when non expander backplane and enclosure connected
LSIP200083985 	(DFCT) 	MSM does not show the enclosure position details if more than 1 enclosure is cascaded.
LSIP200077443 	(DFCT) 	MSM support display of expander Temperature Sensor value

I'm not sure if the readme covers all fixes or just the ones since the last release
 
My setup was (and as it turns out, still latest available drivers/firmware/software)

Driver: 4.31.1.64 (win7 64) 4.31 (centos 5.5)
Firmware: 12.11.0-0016 (APP-2.110.03-0967) (seems like the previous firmware, from early september, is the same as the one from late september, only the "known limitation" part in the readme was added to the sept 27 "u1" version)
MegaCLI: 8.00.31 (windows) 8.00.29 (linux)
MSM: 8.10-04 (windows) 8.10-04 (linux)

Expander firmware: 2.06

LSI has been notified of the issue, but they can't replicate the issue since they say it's hardware specific and they don't have any HP SAS Expander.
Further investigation has been put on hold until the next MSM is released.
 
^ Thanks for the info - I guess that rules out the HP expander for now! Maybe they'll never bother to test/fix with the HP expander - they can hide behind HP only supporting it for use with HP cards in HP servers.
 
Hello [H],

I'm trying to get a hold of one of these expanders, but the «seller» here on the forums (dustin &#8212; which is the same whom sells them over at eBay), don't accept PayPal-payments from unconfirmed US addresses (I'm located in Norway). I have an US address, though, but I can't get it confirmed due to the lack of a CC.

If there are someone who would be kind enough to buy one of these cards, and forward it to my US address, I'd be very happy. You can PM me, or send me an email; joachim@tingvold.com.
 
aitoribarra said:
^ Thanks for the info - I guess that rules out the HP expander for now! Maybe they'll never bother to test/fix with the HP expander - they can hide behind HP only supporting it for use with HP cards in HP servers.
Click to expand...

In Areca's case I ended up sending them an HP expander all the way to Taiwan in hopes of getting a particular bug fixed, because they too took the position "well we don't have one", I told them to keep it to make sure their cards are always compatible since a lot of people are buying their cards to use with the HP expander. They were able to look at the low level interaction between raid card and expander to make adjustments.

I agree that LSI's problem with the HP expander points to LSI firmware., but I'm not sacrificing another free expander to send them. They're a big U.S. company - they can get their own. :)
 
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My 1880 should be here tomorrow. Should be fun testing it. Looking forward to the faster rebuild times.
 
Blue Fox said:
My 1880 should be here tomorrow. Should be fun testing it. Looking forward to the faster rebuild times.
Click to expand...

Will you try the double link as well? I would like to know what kind of performance difference there is in RAID mode.
 
nitrobass24 said:
Will you try the double link as well? I would like to know what kind of performance difference there is in RAID mode.
Click to expand...

It all depends what drives you use and how many. But that's more of an Areca question than an expander question - I posted a BENCH in the Areca thread last week. 20 x Hitachi 2TB's in Raid6 clocks in close to 1500MB/s Read and 1400MB/s Write on sequentials. Next gen LSI SAS2208 based cards and SAS2/SATA-III disks should push those numbers further. The expander maxes out at 1920MB/s with two SAS Wide links and SATA-II disks, and saturating that with RAID5/6 depends on the muscle of the RoC.
 
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odditory said:
In Areca's case I ended up sending them an HP expander all the way to Taiwan in hopes of getting a particular bug fixed, because they too took the position "well we don't have one", I told them to keep it to make sure their cards are always compatible since a lot of people are buying their cards to use with the HP expander. They were able to look at the low level interaction between raid card and expander to make adjustments.

I agree that LSI's problem with the HP expander points to LSI firmware., but I'm not sacrificing another free expander to send them. They're a big U.S. company - they can get their own. :)
Click to expand...

Well, that was incredibly generous of you, not just for Areca, but everyone here... But it kind of worries me that Areca aren't taking a more pro-active approach with compatibility testing. I know that they have that they have their own stuff to push, but given that they target the enthusiast and bespoke markets, they really should make the effort. Not just with expanders - their drive compatibility lists are woefully short too, and they don't list ANY SAS drives (although compatibility with SAS drives seems to be far less hit and miss). I certainly won't be sending them a Supermicro X8DTH-6F so that they can fix the weird problem that the 1680ix-24 has with it - easier and cheaper to switch to LSI...

At least as a small company they are more agile - I've never dealt with LSI support, but I bet getting in touch with whoever is responsible for compatibility testing and persuading them to fix the problems with the HP card is next to impossible.
 
The problem is that MSM presents information that isn't true and that false information does not exist on the firmware-level on the controller...
Even if there is some kind of weird incompatibility issue, the MSM should never present the information in the way it's doing it, ever.
 
Don't suppose anyone is using a P800 RAID controller with multiple SAS Controllers. I have the setup below - initialization of disks is okay with the first adapter only but if I cascade to use the second expander the P800 sits there ages "initializating".

P800 <- SFF8080 -> Expand #1 <- SFF8087 -> Adapter <- SF8080 -> Adapter <- SFF8087 -> Expand #2

Not sure if it was a good choice going SFF8080 direct from the P800 to the (1st) expander but the P800 has two external connections and my plan was to use the second P800 external port to hit the 2nd expander - no cascade required! Funnily enough, if I attach the second expander direct using the SFF8080, it can only see four drives from the second expander, even though 12 are connected. Oh the joy of using "unsupported" products!!
 
alleyezonme said:
hey thanx for the info haileris, still works out a bit more expensive if i order from span, i can get it delivered here from the usa for about £215 inclusive of vat thats a saving of £65 easilly, appreciate your help in pointing out the version number though bro, thanx :)
Click to expand...

No worries, if you go the USA route you need to factor in the wonderful UK customs (which royally ripped me off when I imported a bunch of Norco 4224 cases) and live with the risk of the thing not working. But like you normally I'd go down the cheaper route myself, just wanted it quicker :)
 
haileris said:
Don't suppose anyone is using a P800 RAID controller with multiple SAS Controllers. I have the setup below - initialization of disks is okay with the first adapter only but if I cascade to use the second expander the P800 sits there ages "initializating".

P800 <- SFF8080 -> Expand #1 <- SFF8087 -> Adapter <- SF8080 -> Adapter <- SFF8087 -> Expand #2

Not sure if it was a good choice going SFF8080 direct from the P800 to the (1st) expander but the P800 has two external connections and my plan was to use the second P800 external port to hit the 2nd expander - no cascade required! Funnily enough, if I attach the second expander direct using the SFF8080, it can only see four drives from the second expander, even though 12 are connected. Oh the joy of using "unsupported" products!!
Click to expand...
I dont think you can connect two RAID controllers to the same set of drives.
 
nitrobass24 said:
I dont think you can connect two RAID controllers to the same set of drives.
Click to expand...

Its not two RAID controllers in my case, its one P800 with 2 external connections serving 2 separate drive sets using expanders. Well, that's the theory anyway :)
 
^ The theory is fine if you use a raid card with firmware that supports it, not sure if the P800 does. I've hooked up an Areca 1680x - which also has 2x SFF-8088 external ports - to two HP expanders in parallel and there was no problem seeing all 64 drives (32 per expander).

I haven't had the greatest experience with HP P-series controllers outside of HP servers, honestly. At least based on the P411 I keep on hand for firmware flashing. Raid5/6 build and rebuild times are god awful and in general they're just a nightmare.
 
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haileris said:
Its not two RAID controllers in my case, its one P800 with 2 external connections serving 2 separate drive sets using expanders. Well, that's the theory anyway :)
Click to expand...

You said multiple SAS controllers, so i was like uh wut?
 
So, unless I'm doing something wrong, I can't get any difference in performance between 4 lanes and 8 lanes with my 1880i. Sequential reads were actually slightly slower than my 1680i/ix-24 too, so something seems amiss. Any suggestions?
 
Let's discuss in Areca thread. :) Include how many drives of which model and what you've plugged into what, as well as what benchmark programs you're using. 8 lanes doesn't double all your existing speeds, it only doubles your scaling headroom.
 
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odditory said:
I haven't had the greatest experience with HP P-series controllers outside of HP servers, honestly. At least based on the P411 I keep on hand for firmware flashing. Raid5/6 build and rebuild times are god awful and in general they're just a nightmare.
Click to expand...

Interesting about the P411, I was thinking of getting one since I can probably get a couple pretty cheap and I know that they will "work" (bought a 9690SA which was a waste of money really) What is the nightmare with them (must admit the P400 / P800's aren't great!?)
 
I'd like to ask those that have and use or intend on buying a Norco 4220, 4222 or 4224 case (or any other storage enclosure) as an external storage case for some feedback. What I am looking for is some sort of 'wish-list' of features you would like to see in an adapter board for use with the HP SAS expander.

The functions of this adapter so far:
  1. Single PCIe x4 slot to power the HP SAS Expander
  2. A 24-pin ATX12V 2.x compliant power supply connector
  3. A 2 pin connector/header along with a circuitry for the chassis power push button to control the ATX power on/off signal (PS_ON#)
  4. A 2 pin connector/header for the chassis power LED as status feedback
  5. Circuitry to buffer the ATX power supply PWR_OK signal for use as the PWRGD signal on the PCIe connector

Suggestions I've received so far:
  1. External +5V trigger input for remote power on/off control (requested by PigLover)

Since I don't own one of these Norco cases (yet), I would like to know how or where you guys would prefer to mount this adapter. Pictures of an empty case (top down view) so that I can clearly see the location of any standoffs that could potentially be used for mounting this adapter would also be highly appreciated.

Once the 'wish-list' is pretty much done, I'll design a PCB for it and get a few boards done...
I would also appreciate feedback on who would be interested in such an adapter.

So fire away guys... :)
 
I'll post some good pictures of my norco case later as I haven't found much time to tinker lately. But seeing as few (mother) boards are compatible with the expander (the power good issue) coud the expander board also be powered with:

- a simple molex or sata power connector
- or thet kind of connector graphic cards are powered with.

Unless... it is somehow possible to split the ATX power plug on a PSU twofold so it could power the motherboard and the hp expander board?

And I'd be interested in an adaptor for sure. I'd hate to go through motherboard roulette:).
 
@treadstone: it occurs to me your idea has the potential to be huge on this forum - groundbreaking in fact - i'd seriously consider spinning it off to its own thread so it gets the attention it deserves rather than be buried here on page 54, not to mention it wouldn't have to be limited to the HP expander in terms of uses. naturally we can cross-link threads in the OP's
 
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Last week I had the opportunity to test a bunch of Supermicro motherboards with the integrated LSI SAS2008 chip. First thing I did was cross-flashed the SAS chip's bios to the latest LSI BIOS (obtained from 9211-8i section of LSI site), "IT" firmware (target mode), tested dual-linking and confirmed them working with the HP Expander. Full list is in the OP.

The Supermicro X8SI6-F seems to be a particularly good value for anyone planning a non hardware RAID storage server, even though it only has one PCIe x4 and one PCI x8, since the price of this motherboard is only about 10% more than buying a 9211-8i card - its like getting a motherboard with IPMI management for an extra $30 if you were already in the market for a SAS-2 HBA.
 
Thanks for the update odditory, I was actually considering one of the Supermicro X8SI6-F as a possible replacement of the motherboard and ARC-1680i I currently use in my server (especially since I don't really need the hardware assisted RAID functions of the ARC-1680i).
 
odditory said:
Last week I had the opportunity to test a bunch of Supermicro motherboards with the integrated LSI SAS2008 chip. First thing I did was cross-flashed the SAS chip's bios to the latest LSI BIOS (obtained from 9211-8i section of LSI site), "IT" firmware (target mode), tested dual-linking and confirmed them working with the HP Expander. Full list is in the OP.

The Supermicro X8SI6-F seems to be a particularly good value for anyone planning a non hardware RAID storage server, even though it only has one PCIe x4 and one PCI x8, since the price of this motherboard is only about 10% more than buying a 9211-8i card - its like getting a motherboard with IPMI management for an extra $30 if you were already in the market for a SAS-2 HBA.
Click to expand...
Any performance penalty from using the onboard sas vs. getting a card?
 
odditory said:
Last week I had the opportunity to test a bunch of Supermicro motherboards with the integrated LSI SAS2008 chip. First thing I did was cross-flashed the SAS chip's bios to the latest LSI BIOS (obtained from 9211-8i section of LSI site), "IT" firmware (target mode), tested dual-linking and confirmed them working with the HP Expander. Full list is in the OP.
Click to expand...

Sweet, thanks! Good to know I won't run into any issues when it comes to this

Did you flash just the firmware, or did you flash the BIOS as well? Just wondering, as I noticed there were 2 separate folders in the firmware zip on the 9211-8i page

Thanks again! Can't wait for the final bits to roll in
 
Definitely interested in this.

I would use this for external storage case.

in terms of mounting would it need to be limited to a Norco case if the pcb used a few of the ATX mounting holes? rubber stand offs could be used for support if you wanted to keep the pcb to a inches in width.

remote on is good, but would remote off be supported as well, to me it is more important to shutdown gracefully in the event of a UPS shutdown scenario.
 
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