How would I know if a USB thumb drive is bad or going bad ?

S

Subzerok11

Gawd
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Aug 13, 2014
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Well obviously if it's bad it won't work or correctly. I keep backups of important files (music/pictures) on a USB stick and I put it in a firebox safe. So lets say my place gets robbed or burns down. Then later I get a new PC and I want to use those files and guess what the files on the USB stick are corrupted or just some files are corrupted, I just lost everything or down the road I realize that many of the files were corrupt but I only noticed it until now and I don't have good backup available to replace. I guess I could make two backups with two USB sticks, but still when I need to update these USB sticks how would I know if one of them is going bad. What is your opinion on this.

The only thing I can think of would be to rar all my files before I put on the stick. So when I need those files and the file does not unrar correctly and I get a error, then I'll know.
 
One of my rules is:
Do not use USB sticks for backup purposes.

They are unreliable and will just die out of the blue. Also, they tend to lose data if not used for a while.

I also do not trust Hard drives, CDs, DVDs, or any other physical media for long term data storage.

I have had all types of media just die randomly.

And for CDs and DVDs, sometimes they will work in the computer/drive they were burned with, but will not work in other computers/drives.

If you really want a good backup solution, pay for unlimited offsite backup as well as keeping the data onsite. I currently use backblaze.
 
Backblaze just for 40GB's of mp3's and pictures ? Is that really worth it ?

Don't you think if I use a rar to compress my files and then use the option "Add recovery data" so then if I ever have a problem I would know about right away plus be able to fix it.
 
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Subzerok11 said:
Backblaze just for 40GB's of mp3's and pictures ? Is that really worth it ?
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Well, it is like $40 for the first year if you use a discount code We have a few TB of photos, a bunch of MP3s, and a bunch of other files I need to back up.

If you only need a small amount of space, then it might be cheaper to get a different online backup solution.

Looks Like Zoolz has a 100GB plan for $14.99 a year. Never used them, so have no idea how good they are.

Here is a "review" of the different available solutions.

25 Online Backup Services: Ranked & Reviewed

It really depends on you if you think it is worth it or not. For me, it is.
 
I've been thinking about it and 40GB's can easily be burned to about 9 standard DVDs. But if I do this should I zip or rar my files before burning them to disc ? I have about 40GB worth of mp3's and JPEG pictures. I would like to burn them to about 9 DVDs for safe keeping and long term storage. So instead of burning 1000's of small individual files was wondering if it would be best to compressed the files into 2-4GB large compressed files and just burning 1 or 2 large files to a disc ?



I know some will say just buy a portable HDD but these files is something I don't change often or look at and burning 9 DVDs will be cheap. Portable HDDs have moving parts and break or get corrupted. Then again in 10 years will we still even use disc drives or even be able to buy them. A well burned disc can last very long. I'm not 100% about my decision so if you want to give me your two cents on top of answering my original question. Thanks
 
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Subzerok11 said:
I've been thinking about it and 40GB's can easily be burned to about 9 standard DVDs. But if I do this should I zip or rar my files before burning them to disc ? I have about 40GB worth of mp3's and JPEG pictures. I would like to burn them to about 9 DVDs for safe keeping and long term storage. So instead of burning 1000's of small individual files was wondering if it would be best to compressed the files into 2-4GB large compressed files and just burning 1 or 2 large files to a disc ?



I know some will say just buy a portable HDD but these files is something I don't change often or look at and burning 9 DVDs will be cheap. Portable HDDs have moving parts and break or get corrupted. Then again in 10 years will we still even use disc drives or even be able to buy them. A well burned disc can last very long. I'm not 100% about my decision so if you want to give me your two cents on top of answering my original question. Thanks
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I would just burn the discs without compressing them into large files.

If a disc gets a scratch on it and all you have is large zip files, then you lose all the contents of the disc, nut just the ones that are unreadable because of the scratch.

And if you do burn to DVDs, then you will definitely want to make sure that they are in plastic cases and not in some sort of disc folder/paper sleeves/whatever because they tend to warp easily and then drives will have a hard time reading them if they will read them at all.

You could also burn to Blueray. The discs and burners are pretty cheap now and I am pretty sure that they will have a longer shelf life than DVDs.

One other thing. When you do burn them, make sure to burn them at 1/2 the max speed the disc supports. From experience, you get much more reliable burns that way compared to full speed burns.
 
they die with a couple variations on symptoms.
1. when inserted into a system the drive will not recognize and ask to be formatted. (DON'T just click format sometimes they come back off this try putting it in another port. This usually happens more and more often until 2 happens...)
2. No activity no reaction at all (She's Dead Jim maybe a bit flaky and will work in another port or hub or after reinserting but if she never comes back....)
3. Read-only (I have not had this happen on a usb drive but i have had a 128gb Micro sd card do this supposedly this is how they are made to fail in the ideal manner supposedly it is possible to unflag them read only but i did not get mine to do so)

Recovery in the case of the 3rd failure mode and the first is easy if number 2 happens or if number 1 happens and fails to format then there is only 1 way to get data off.

Recovery is possible in a lab setting it involves autopsy of the drive if a controller chip can be replaced that can be tried first if that doesnt give access then the nand can be removed and stripped with acid then each individual bit can be read on a electron microscope and then rebuilt on a new flash memory. As you can imagine this is expensive and time consuming...

HDD and SSD can also be recovered in a manner similar with the exception with a hdd it is much easier to get the platters and scan them...

cyclone3d said:
I would just burn the discs without compressing them into large files.

If a disc gets a scratch on it and all you have is large zip files, then you lose all the contents of the disc, nut just the ones that are unreadable because of the scratch.

And if you do burn to DVDs, then you will definitely want to make sure that they are in plastic cases and not in some sort of disc folder/paper sleeves/whatever because they tend to warp easily and then drives will have a hard time reading them if they will read them at all.

You could also burn to Blueray. The discs and burners are pretty cheap now and I am pretty sure that they will have a longer shelf life than DVDs.

One other thing. When you do burn them, make sure to burn them at 1/2 the max speed the disc supports. From experience, you get much more reliable burns that way compared to full speed burns.
Click to expand...
The disc type to look for would be m-disc stands for millennial disc supposedly uses an inorganic carbon for a dye and they make claims to last 1000 years testing though shows they are just as lasting as regular media which can have data rot after 2-3 years...

the only lasting solution thus far would be pressing into a gold record and launching into space...
More seriously cloud or some type of multiple redundant raid array with tape backup would probably be the best method...
 
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Subzerok11 said:
The only thing I can think of would be to rar all my files before I put on the stick. So when I need those files and the file does not unrar correctly and I get a error, then I'll know.
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Not the best way to look after your data.
One error could wipe out all of your files instead of just 1.
With 2 backups the odds improve but thats still a fair risk.
 
I guess I should mention I do have two 64GB USB thumb drives, I'm not currently using. I was going to use them for backing up but I was reading that using USB thumb drives as backing stuff up long term isn't very reliable. When I read that, that's why I was thinking of going to DVDs, but thinking of burning discs just feels weird in this day and age. I could use WinRAR and "add a recovery record" to the archives for both USB sticks.
 
Subzerok11 said:
I guess I should mention I do have two 64GB USB thumb drives, I'm not currently using. I was going to use them for backing up but I was reading that using USB thumb drives as backing stuff up long term isn't very reliable. When I read that, that's why I was thinking of going to DVDs, but thinking of burning discs just feels weird in this day and age. I could use WinRAR and "add a recovery record" to the archives for both USB sticks.
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Compressing the files is just going to make the data more easily lost - even with "recovery records".

DVDs are going to be a much more reliable "long term" storage solution than USB sticks.
 
cyclone3d said:
Compressing the files is just going to make the data more easily lost - even with "recovery records".

DVDs are going to be a much more reliable "long term" storage solution than USB sticks.
Click to expand...

The most reliable storage medium for me has been old hard drives.
I've had discs degrade, one even got eaten!

08280015.JPG 08280017.JPG
 
cyclone3d said:
I would just burn the discs without compressing them into large files.

If a disc gets a scratch on it and all you have is large zip files, then you lose all the contents of the disc, nut just the ones that are unreadable because of the scratch.

And if you do burn to DVDs, then you will definitely want to make sure that they are in plastic cases and not in some sort of disc folder/paper sleeves/whatever because they tend to warp easily and then drives will have a hard time reading them if they will read them at all.

You could also burn to Blueray. The discs and burners are pretty cheap now and I am pretty sure that they will have a longer shelf life than DVDs.

One other thing. When you do burn them, make sure to burn them at 1/2 the max speed the disc supports. From experience, you get much more reliable burns that way compared to full speed burns.
Click to expand...
cyclone3d said:
Compressing the files is just going to make the data more easily lost - even with "recovery records".

DVDs are going to be a much more reliable "long term" storage solution than USB sticks.
Click to expand...
Actually as far as longevity is concerned...
DVD are least reliable
Next is flash
Then HDD
Then cloud
Then pressing into a metal disc...

HDD and flash both have to deal with bit flipping and bit decay where bits will over time just randomly flip or if after years of storage the nand looses bits or just becomes unreadable that said on averagewe are talking 5-10 years shelf life iIhave hard drives that are older still working with all data on them... Which is why I suggest a redundant raid array with tape backup.
 
Archival optical media is fine if you use quality blanks = $$$. You get what you pay for with the cheapo blanks. But I think most important is what you do once you have those backups. Are you storing them in a temperature controlled environment offsite? In a kitchen drawer?

CD/DVDs will last long or not depending on how you treat them after the fact.
 
From experience DVDs are way more reliable than flash or HDDs. I've had HDDs just randomly not work at all after sitting for less than a year. And I've had usb sticks work fine one day and just be dead the next. Even worse if you don't use them for a while.

I've got DVDs and CDs that were burned over years ago and they still work fine. And no, I didn't spend $$$ for archival discs either. I've NEVER had a DVD or CD just go bad. Physical damage is pretty much the only thing that will kill them.

As long as you keep them from getting scratched, don't leave them in a super hot climate, or leave them in a window where they get sun-baked, keep them from warping (plastic cases only), then they are going to be fine.

For something that is going to be kept for archival purposes.. in a bank lock box or whatever, DVDs should be fine.

I still don't trust anything but having a at least dual backup solution though. Onsite and offsite/cloud.
 
Interesting findings about your hard drives.
Were they USB or loose drives?
Any particular brands?

I havent had a backup drive fail yet, I've had a few drives die while in full service but never once retired to backups.
Agreed about the dual backup.
 
cyclone3d said:
From experience DVDs are way more reliable than flash or HDDs. I've had HDDs just randomly not work at all after sitting for less than a year. And I've had usb sticks work fine one day and just be dead the next. Even worse if you don't use them for a while.

I've got DVDs and CDs that were burned over years ago and they still work fine. And no, I didn't spend $$$ for archival discs either. I've NEVER had a DVD or CD just go bad. Physical damage is pretty much the only thing that will kill them.

As long as you keep them from getting scratched, don't leave them in a super hot climate, or leave them in a window where they get sun-baked, keep them from warping (plastic cases only), then they are going to be fine.

For something that is going to be kept for archival purposes.. in a bank lock box or whatever, DVDs should be fine.

I still don't trust anything but having a at least dual backup solution though. Onsite and offsite/cloud.
Click to expand...
Disc rot - Wikipedia
depends how they are stored

Which is why i went with 2 known technologies to last the test of time a spinning disc hard drive and a tape backup of that...

Sony LTO Ultrium 6 Data Cartridge - Newegg.com 6.25 TB compressed on a single tape the drawback the drive to write this is super expensive 1300 was the cheapest but for that you get all the durability of vhs style tape with the storage capacity to realistically only need 1-2 tapes. You can get older lower density drives cheaper i found some lto-3 and 4 drives on amazon for 30-60$ then the tapes for them are around $10-$30... and hold 100gb-1.5tb

use a nas at home with 8 tb of redundant storage back up your computers nightly then once a month or week back up the nas twice to 2 tapes put one at your parents house or safety deposit box then another in another location in your house preferably close to the door and readily accessible if there is a fire to grab the 1 bag of things you do not want to replace.
 
Lunas said:
Disc rot - Wikipedia
depends how they are stored

Which is why i went with 2 known technologies to last the test of time a spinning disc hard drive and a tape backup of that...

Sony LTO Ultrium 6 Data Cartridge - Newegg.com 6.25 TB compressed on a single tape the drawback the drive to write this is super expensive 1300 was the cheapest but for that you get all the durability of vhs style tape with the storage capacity to realistically only need 1-2 tapes. You can get older lower density drives cheaper i found some lto-3 and 4 drives on amazon for 30-60$ then the tapes for them are around $10-$30... and hold 100gb-1.5tb

use a nas at home with 8 tb of redundant storage back up your computers nightly then once a month or week back up the nas twice to 2 tapes put one at your parents house or safety deposit box then another in another location in your house preferably close to the door and readily accessible if there is a fire to grab the 1 bag of things you do not want to replace.
Click to expand...

Right, but the OP doesn't even want to spend $15 per year for backups.. so no way are they going to spend a bunch for a really good setup.
 
cyclone3d said:
Right, but the OP doesn't even want to spend $15 per year for backups.. so no way are they going to spend a bunch for a really good setup.
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in which case what he should do is back up the same 64gb to both flash drives and clench his butt for when the hdd crashes and both usb drives are dead and the disc are rot...

but like i said for a lto 1-4 drive you can get them under 50 and the tapes for 10-20 per 100gb -1.5tb

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-STU4...id=1477700139&sr=1-92&keywords=lto+tape+drive
24+9 dollars shipping
https://www.amazon.com/LTO-Ultrium-200GB-Cart-case/dp/B000067SKO/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1477700208&sr=1-1&keywords=lto+100/200gb
8 dollars per tape...
https://www.amazon.com/Adaptec-2916...ion+68-pin+LVD+internal+cable+with+terminator biggest pain is this thing needs scsi... i think in my basement i have a card and a 2 gb drive with win2k on it not sure if still working... but another 30 so under 100 gets you a tape backup system... there might be a usb to scsi lvd adaptor or a sata to scsi lvd or ide to scsi lvd...
 
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They tend to just die out of nowhere. Typically in the middle of a file copy. Whatever is on it may or may not still be accessible when this happens.

At least going from experience. Before I setup a Raspberry PI to watch movies I used to user SneakerNet with a 64GB USB stick and plug it straight to the TV. After many movies I wore it out.

I backup stuff on spinning disks (separate raid array on the file server) and also to removable disks (drive dock) that I treat like tapes.

Hard drives are not exactly reliable but that's why I have multiple copies of stuff.

Tapes are more reliable and I've looked into it, but tabarnak they're expensive, especially the drives. :eek:
 
Red Squirrel said:
They tend to just die out of nowhere. Typically in the middle of a file copy. Whatever is on it may or may not still be accessible when this happens.

At least going from experience. Before I setup a Raspberry PI to watch movies I used to user SneakerNet with a 64GB USB stick and plug it straight to the TV. After many movies I wore it out.

I backup stuff on spinning disks (separate raid array on the file server) and also to removable disks (drive dock) that I treat like tapes.

Hard drives are not exactly reliable but that's why I have multiple copies of stuff.

Tapes are more reliable and I've looked into it, but tabarnak they're expensive, especially the drives. :eek:
Click to expand...
apparently not the older lower density slower ones as i posted above is pretty much everything needed to add a tape drive to a setup for under 100 dollars and it will do up to 200 gb per tape.
 
No I'm not going with USB sticks that's for sure. I was pretty sure I was going to use DVD's but then I decided I'm going to use Google's drive for 1.99$ a month I get 100GB of storage. Thanks for all the advice though.
 
Lunas said:
Actually as far as longevity is concerned...
DVD are least reliable
Next is flash
Then HDD
Then cloud
Then pressing into a metal disc...

HDD and flash both have to deal with bit flipping and bit decay where bits will over time just randomly flip or if after years of storage the nand looses bits or just becomes unreadable that said on averagewe are talking 5-10 years shelf life iIhave hard drives that are older still working with all data on them... Which is why I suggest a redundant raid array with tape backup.
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Source?

High density flash like most of the TLC junk out there will probably lose bits a lot sooner than 5-10 years... I believe JEDEC data retention standards are something like 1 year stored at 30C which is no time at all. That's assuming you trust the source of the dodgy flash on your USB drive to meet the specs.

Meanwhile I have almost 20 year old hard drives that hadn't been powered in years yet all are still readable and over 15 year old CD-R's still good even though they've been stored in rooms that get hot and humid during May through June each year before I flip the switch on the air conditioning. Of course they weren't cheap discs... they cost me $2.50 each back in 1999.
 
Wow did not realize flash data retention was that bad. I would have figured it would actually be better than CD/DVDs. What about SSD flash? I imagine not every single bit is touched durring normal operation so are they susceptible to bit rot/lost data or does the firmware scan/rewrite bits over time or something?

It seems these days we don't actually seem to have any suitable archiving methods for data which is kinda alarming. Spinning disks seem to be about the best bet but not exactly good if you specifically want cold storage.
 
Red Squirel: 1042622546 said:
Wow did not realize flash data retention was that bad. I would have figured it would actually be better than CD/DVDs. What about SSD flash? I imagine not every single bit is touched durring normal operation so are they susceptible to bit rot/lost data or does the firmware scan/rewrite bits over time or something?

It seems these days we don't actually seem to have any suitable archiving methods for data which is kinda alarming. Spinning disks seem to be about the best bet but not exactly good if you specifically want cold storage.
Click to expand...
When not powered it happens quicker. Ssd depending nonbrand and type of chip last longer but not that much... I recently found a old 256mb drive iIwonder if any thing is left on that tthumb drive..
 
cyclone3d said:
Compressing the files is just going to make the data more easily lost - even with "recovery records".

DVDs are going to be a much more reliable "long term" storage solution than USB sticks.
Click to expand...

" I could use WinRAR and "add a recovery record" to the archives for both USB sticks."
Thats the whole point of the recovery record, its like a parity table for files. winrar has already been better about handling damaged archive files(RAR format, not ZIP), you do not loose the whole archive and probably not the file if you have a recovery record.

I have been pretty lucky with CD's and DVD's, I usually keep them in the spindles and the spindles sealed with desiccant. making 2x of each disc and using a RAR archive with recovery record and/or recovery volume(with a volume copied to multiple disc's or every disc).

Lunas said:
When not powered it happens quicker. Ssd depending nonbrand and type of chip last longer but not that much... I recently found a old 256mb drive iIwonder if any thing is left on that tthumb drive..
Click to expand...
Heat also plays into the bitrot on SSD's.
 
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