How to upgrade my single 360? Three options, as I see it

Neon01

[H]ard|Gawd
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Current setup is in sig. I just switched from a HAF X case to a Corsair Carbide Air 540. It gives me a lot more flexibility with WCing. The setup does OK with temps (60/58C with heavy gaming), I could do a lot better with a. temps, and b. noise.

My current setup is just using the GT AP-15s at max flow (1850rpm).

The options, as I see it (other suggestions welcome) -

1. Add a single 240 rad to the existing loop with two more GT AP-15s.
Pros: Cheapest option, gives plenty of cooling (I think?)
Cons: Case is cramped, not much room for reduced noise by turning fans down

2. Sell the 360 and buy two 2x140mm to use internally.
Pros: Plenty of space in the case (the 360 in the front is very cramped right now, and I'd like to turn the fans around), better cooling (more surface area than 5x120mm),
Cons: Excellent 140mm fans are still nowhere to be found (may be best with just AP-15s and adapters?), costliest option, no noise reduction if 120mm fans are used

3. Sell the 360 and buy a large external rad like a 4x180mm or similar
Pros: Best cooling, case is wide open, potentially much less fan noise
Cons: Longest tubing runs (how much is too much for MCP35X?), possibly require higher flow rate from pump (which is the noisiest component), unsure how to power fans in an external setup.

Would really appreciate recommendations.
 
1) will work and be probably the best option

2) That would work, bit of a hassle selling it, for minimal cooling gains (IMO)

3) Top idea here .... use fan extender cables for power, no idea if its too much, i doubt it though (on tubing length)
 
For the most part, longer tube runs do not add much restriction. For example, it takes 9 elbow fittings just to match the restriction of a typical CPU block, so imagine how much straight run tubing would be needed to match the restriction of a CPU block.
 
Thanks for weighing in folks. So it sounds like option 3 might be a good option? Any universally liked products out there, like a nice looking 4x180mm or maybe 9x120mm? Looking for something that would be less than maybe $175.

Regarding the pumping power required, if I routed this a couple feet away from my box, do you think I could get by using my MCP35X at a lowish setting (maybe 3200 rpm - about 35% PWM on mobo)? Anything above that and it starts getting pretty annoying.

I'm not sure if flow rate really matters that much to cooling. My engineering background makes me guess that over some threshold I would likely get extremely diminished returns. I'm not sure what that flow rate is though. 1gpm?
 
Having recently purchased a pair of 290s (before the LTC explosion thankfully), I was facing a similar question. I have never water cooled before, but I decided if you are going to do it, go big.

I bought a Phobya Nova 1080. There are a few different versions of this rad out there:
45mm with copper fins and brass chambers. If you can find this one it is usually around $110
45mm full copper version. Approximately $145
60mm full copper version. Approximately $220

As per the Phobya site, PerformancePC, FrozenCPU and Aquatuning are the officail distributors. I bought mine through Amazon due to some credit I had. It came from Xoxide.

The problem is all of these come with a fan mounting plate for 9 x 120mm fans. If you want to use 4 x 180mm fans you need to buy (or fab) a replacement plate for $30. Choices for fans are limited. I just went with the Phobya G-Silent 180 x 25mm fans for $15 each.

There are perpetual coupon codes from FrozenCPU and Performance PC for 5% off. Easy to find if you Google. If you have never done it before, there is a 10% coupon you can get from FrozenCPU for leaving a ResellerRatings review. You have to buy something, write the review, wait 48 hours for it to appear and then notify FCPU about the review. They will then send you the 10% code for your next purchase. One time use and does not stack with other codes. If you can wait, buy something small, and work through the process before buying the expensive stuff.

I am going to install a fan controller in the PC and bought these two items to run the wires out to the external fans. 5 way block and 3 pin extension cable. I'm just going to velcro the block to the side of the rad, hook all four fans to it and run one wire back to the controller.

The other thing to consider is how you are going to get the rad to stay in place. They sell various feet and enclosures, but this all starts to add up. For me, appearance is not a concern. I'm not building the system to showcase so I will probably just use some angle brackets at the corners to hold it in place.


Another popular one from my research was the Watercool MO-RA3.
 
Sounds like the question is how to downgrade your 360 with the least loss? I think your best bet will be to get a different case than can fit more radiator rather than less radiator if your actually trying to upgrade.
 
Having recently purchased a pair of 290s (before the LTC explosion thankfully), I was facing a similar question. I have never water cooled before, but I decided if you are going to do it, go big.

I bought a Phobya Nova 1080. There are a few different versions of this rad out there:
45mm with copper fins and brass chambers. If you can find this one it is usually around $110
45mm full copper version. Approximately $145
60mm full copper version. Approximately $220

As per the Phobya site, PerformancePC, FrozenCPU and Aquatuning are the officail distributors. I bought mine through Amazon due to some credit I had. It came from Xoxide.

The problem is all of these come with a fan mounting plate for 9 x 120mm fans. If you want to use 4 x 180mm fans you need to buy (or fab) a replacement plate for $30. Choices for fans are limited. I just went with the Phobya G-Silent 180 x 25mm fans for $15 each.

There are perpetual coupon codes from FrozenCPU and Performance PC for 5% off. Easy to find if you Google. If you have never done it before, there is a 10% coupon you can get from FrozenCPU for leaving a ResellerRatings review. You have to buy something, write the review, wait 48 hours for it to appear and then notify FCPU about the review. They will then send you the 10% code for your next purchase. One time use and does not stack with other codes. If you can wait, buy something small, and work through the process before buying the expensive stuff.

I am going to install a fan controller in the PC and bought these two items to run the wires out to the external fans. 5 way block and 3 pin extension cable. I'm just going to velcro the block to the side of the rad, hook all four fans to it and run one wire back to the controller.

The other thing to consider is how you are going to get the rad to stay in place. They sell various feet and enclosures, but this all starts to add up. For me, appearance is not a concern. I'm not building the system to showcase so I will probably just use some angle brackets at the corners to hold it in place.


Another popular one from my research was the Watercool MO-RA3.

Thanks for the detailed response! I've got a fan controller on the way, so I really appreciate the tips for the fan accessories. I'm still on the fence as to whether I should just use my current setup and add another 2x120mm. That would still give me ample cooling, but I just wouldn't be able to turn the fans down like I could with the type of external rad you went with.

I kind of prefer the 9x120mm fan setup anyway - at least then I could still use my 3 existing GT AP-15s. From all of my research, it seems like the vast majority of the market just buys 120mm fans, so it appears that all of the development money from manufacturers is going there. No doubt 180mm fans are much more quiet, but the AP-15s turned down to 1200-1400 are nearly silent anyway.

Sounds like the question is how to downgrade your 360 with the least loss? I think your best bet will be to get a different case than can fit more radiator rather than less radiator if your actually trying to upgrade.

Not necessarily. My new case supports the existing 360mm rad plus has another spot for either a 2x140mm or 2x120mm on the top. The 2x140mm wouldn't fit with my current 360 in there, but the 2x120 would. Or if I switched the 360 for a 2x140mm in the front, that would give me the extra space I need to run the 2x140mm on the top too. Plus it would put my rad fittings in a more convenience space. Right now they're very close to being in front of one of the hard drive slots at the bottom of the case, so routing the tubing is a bit of a pain.

Ironically, I didn't think about going with an external rad until I bought this case, and this case is really ideal for internal water cooling. Not many I've found (especially in this price segment) will accommodate 5x120mm or 4x140mm - or possibly even 3x120 + 2x140 with the right 360.
 
Thanks for the detailed response! I've got a fan controller on the way, so I really appreciate the tips for the fan accessories. I'm still on the fence as to whether I should just use my current setup and add another 2x120mm. That would still give me ample cooling, but I just wouldn't be able to turn the fans down like I could with the type of external rad you went with.

I kind of prefer the 9x120mm fan setup anyway - at least then I could still use my 3 existing GT AP-15s. From all of my research, it seems like the vast majority of the market just buys 120mm fans, so it appears that all of the development money from manufacturers is going there. No doubt 180mm fans are much more quiet, but the AP-15s turned down to 1200-1400 are nearly silent anyway.



Not necessarily. My new case supports the existing 360mm rad plus has another spot for either a 2x140mm or 2x120mm on the top. The 2x140mm wouldn't fit with my current 360 in there, but the 2x120 would. Or if I switched the 360 for a 2x140mm in the front, that would give me the extra space I need to run the 2x140mm on the top too. Plus it would put my rad fittings in a more convenience space. Right now they're very close to being in front of one of the hard drive slots at the bottom of the case, so routing the tubing is a bit of a pain.

Ironically, I didn't think about going with an external rad until I bought this case, and this case is really ideal for internal water cooling. Not many I've found (especially in this price segment) will accommodate 5x120mm or 4x140mm - or possibly even 3x120 + 2x140 with the right 360.

I misread your post. 280 will cool a bit better than a 240, but you will need extra space for a shroud if you want to take full advantage and use AP-15's 120mm fans on the 140 Rad. So I would just go with whichever fits better and makes for the cleanest setup. I'm about to buy a 2x140 30mm thick rad and run 140's on it though, just for that reason (it fits best). If your going to a less performant 360 just to run a 280 over a 240 it's probably not worth it for cost. If cost is not a concern I would go for a 360 and a 280 if they will fit nicely (you can run a shroud on the 280, or just want to use 140mm fans). If cost is a factor adding a 240 will be just fine I am sure and no need for a shroud + more fan choices without a shroud.

I do not care for external Radiators, unless your trying some extreme cooling experiment or something.

To clarify noise vs performance a good 240mm with AP-15's might be a better choice than a 280 with 140s hard to say. A 280 with AP15's and a shroud adapter should win every time though.
 
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I kind of prefer the 9x120mm fan setup anyway - at least then I could still use my 3 existing GT AP-15s. From all of my research, it seems like the vast majority of the market just buys 120mm fans, so it appears that all of the development money from manufacturers is going there. No doubt 180mm fans are much more quiet, but the AP-15s turned down to 1200-1400 are nearly silent anyway.

Considering how much money I spent this may seem odd, but the cost differential between 9 120mm fans and 4 180mm fans was enough to make me go with the 180s. I also just assumed they would be much quieter, though perhaps not once turned down with the fan controller. The Phobya 1080 has a pretty low fin density, so the high static pressure fans also aren't needed.


I do not care for external Radiators, unless your trying some extreme cooling experiment or something.

I don't think externals are only for "extreme cooling experiments."

They have their place. In my situation, my case was not really going to allow me adequate rad surface area to cool a pair of overclocked 290s and an overclocked 3570K. So rather than trying to squeeze multiple rads in, modding the case, or even buying some new monster case, I went with the external rad. I'm not a "bling" guy either, so I don't care if the external rad is not as pretty either. A couple of quick disconnects will make it easier to move if needed.

It also happens that I am starting completely from scratch, so I did not already have money invested in other rads. One large rad was cheaper than buying several smaller ones and a case to put them in.
 
I just bought a MO RA3-420. I have a CM HAF932 Adv case and had used a XSPC 360 rad internally along with a EX360 rad mounted externally to the rear. I realized if I was to add more rads, I would have to spend $300+ for a Corsair 900D and still have to spend more $$ for rads. I found a guy was selling a brand new MO RA3 with fan guard and feet. I made a bid which he accepted and it was the BEST move I made. Sure I had to buy 9 140mm fans (got the XSPC Xiurilians - pretty good). It was the BEST move I ever made. The Watercool MO RA3-420 Pro which I bought is truly a piece of work. The equivalent at a minimum of 3 420 rads!
 
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