How to deal with a potentially fradulent buyer on eBay?

Archaea

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
11,821
well...crud.....


Ebay notified me that my buyer wants a return on two RX470 cards I sold. Here is what the return notice says:


TWO AMD Radeon RX 470 4GB - NEW OEM video cards, Hynix, Ethereum 2 DAY FREE SHIP
Item ID:
222577384627
Order ID:
222577384627-1934314027012
Buyer email:
[omitted]@occomputertechs.com
Sale price:
$614.99
Sale date:
Jul-11-17 17:30:23 PDT
Buyer ID:
won.pa9
Return ID:
5060320389
Return opened:
Jul-18-17 12:05:58 PDT
Return shipping:
seller pays
Return reason:
Doesn't work or defective
Comments: both cards turn on for 2 seconds, spins and doesn t boot up. I am running corsair 1000 w, gold. Please refund my money


The buyer has 0 feedback score --- (why can't I block 0 feedback score buyer eBay???? GRRR)
http://www.ebay.com/usr/won.pa9?_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2754

So basically I know this guy is either A) lying or B) user error.

These are two RX470's I pulled from a brand new CyberPower system I purchased.

I packed them extremely well - anti-static bags, bubble warp, and foam.

I suspect he is simply lying because look at his e-mail address domain -- @occomputertechs.com --- based on that e-mail I'd expect he wouldn't be incompetent.

Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if they actually still work perfectly well and he just wants to return them because he has no skin in the game --- he gets a full and complete refund, and can rebuy another pair of cards at much lower prices since the mining profitability has fallen off. I sold the pair for $615 with a buy it now. Today you can buy the pair for more like $500 or less. Obviously he decided to purchase the cards at $615 - which was cheaper than the other RX 470's at the time. With mining profits down he probably regrets his decision. (even though I shipped them free with 2 day Fedex!)


I thoroughly tested these cards before I sent them.
I checked FAN RPM speeds via manual tuning in AMD Wattman, and MSI afterburner. I ran benchmarks that stressed the cards to 100% for hours and made sure everything was stable before I sold them because I didn't want problems (It'd be easier to send them back to Cyberpower directly if there was a problem than deal with a third party on eBay). He doesn't claim that they were damaged in shipping - just that he has no display and the fans don't spin - - which simply can't be true.


I sent this reply: (because it doesn't serve me well to start out aggressive in case it is truly just user error)

Pak, I see your note that you are not seeing the fans spin up. I think we can easily resolve this concern because it is not a failure. The fan spin up is related to heat build up, if there is no heat build up the fans don't spin. I had eight of these cards for sale from four brand new CyberPower systems I pulled them from. All eight fans on these RX470 behaved identically. They all spin a bit when the power is pressed, and then turn off until they have enough heat build up to engage again. this is normal and expected stock RX 470 behavior. As to no display -- let's work through this - because I assure you the cards work perfectly. What display connection are you using? Do you have a six pin PCI-E power connector connected to each card? Did you select the right input mode on the monitor/display? (HDMI/DisplayPort etc). Can you please send a quick video of the cards in action? Based on your e-mail I expect you are a computer shop owner or worker. I would expect you've tried these things, but I can attest with all my integrity, that those cards were new System pull cards - I tested thoroughly before I sent them - and even verified the fans worked under load and were able to be changed using the fan speed tuner in AMD wattman and MSI afterburner. I've been in the IT occupation for nearly 20 years - building many systems for my hobby and day job. I work in Information Security at the [..omitted..]. Those cards worked absolutely perfectly and were brand new system pulls, just as I stated, and I fully expect we can get them working. Please respond to my questions above. My phone number is [...omitted....]. Please call me and I can help you walk through getting the cards working I'm sure.


The problem now of course is I have no ability to prove he's lying or incompetent. If I go after him aggressively - he can simply intentionally break them - pop a capacitor or transistor off, or actually break the fan and then send them back in a truly failed state and then I have definitely do have two broken cards. (and if there is intentional damage I don't know if CyberPower would even warranty them???

Yes, I have the serial number pictures of course, but even there - he can just swap out the backplates with identical cards if he had defective ones, and send me the defective cards with my cards backplates attached. There's no real recourse for me here if the buyer lacks integrity, is there?


Any suggestions on how to handle this?
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Nothing is wrong with the cards. He's just having buyers remorse as the prices begin to go down. I'm guessing this won't be the only time that this happens! All these purchases have 2 months to initiate a return under the protection programs. All you can do is begin the return process.
 
I wasn't the only one warning folks about the potential problems reselling cards on eBay over a month ago when I posted Reverse deal - Sell your $160 RX 470 for $350-$400 now on ebay.

Here's what will happen:

You will be forced to accept a return from eBay/PayPal. Get all of the money in your PayPal account out NOW and do NOT add money back into it anytime soon. They will freeze those funds the moment the buyer hits the SNAD button, which the buyer will do if you keep trying to work with them. They don't want to work with you. Your PayPal account will go negative.

They have buyer's remorse because of the weekend ETH price crash (nevermind that it's back into profitable territory already), they are lying, and you can only hope at this point that you lose about $50 and not your cards.

Ebay will require you to pay the return shipping fee, and you will pay it. You will hope the buyer sends back the cards in proper working order. If they do, then you will refund their money and lose out the cost of shipping the cards to them, and the cost of the return shipping. You will also have lost the opportunity to sell these cards at their inflated prices. It sucks, but at that point, you move on. Sell the cards here for as much as you can get for them. Or mine on them! Hell you could end up making more money that way.

Now, if the buyer sends you back different cards, or the cards are busted, or you get a box with a brick in it, then it's time to start filing police reports: their jurisdiction, your jurisdiction, and with the USPS. These reports will go nowhere, but they will help when eBay sends you to collections. They will send you to collections because you pulled all of the money out of your PayPal account, and you will NOT buy anything through eBay or PayPal and give them the chance to add your negative balance to whatever you just paid for.

The collection agency will send you a letter asserting you owe them money, and in that letter will be verbiage that says if you dispute the debt, that you must do so in writing in a certain period of time. You will mail them a certified letter detailing exactly what happened, including references to the police reports and USPS mail fraud claim you filed. You will not hear from the collections agency again because it will not be worth their time to get involved with an interstate mail fraud case, even if it's only over $500 or so. Your credit score will not be affected because it is not a legitimate debt.

You will need to make new eBay and PayPal accounts moving forward because the ones involved in this will be permanently negatively balanced.

At least this was my experience years and years ago when you could unlock cores on AMD CPUs. I bought ten at Microcenter, seven unlocked and three did not. I kept five unlockers and sold the remaining five (the three locked and two unlockers) as a lot. Guy claimed they were all defective and no surprise, returned the three locked chips I sent him and two locked CPUs that didn't match the serials of the two unlockers I sent. eBay collections notice emails are still going into my trash folder, and the dude who scammed me has been to jail twice since then for unrelated petty fraud convictions.
 
I tried selling some RX 580/570s on eBay. My first card got bought and never paid for by a random Russian dude using a 3rd party agency for shipping. Cost me a full week of time trying to get it re-listed and by that time the pricing craze was over.

The second card was bought by a guy in New York and he paid for it. Delivered to his doorstep today, so we'll see if all goes well.

The third card was won by a last-second bid and the bidder has over 120 positive 100% feedback. Bidder has not paid after 5 days and will not respond to messages. So again, another 7 days of nonsense waiting for stupid non-paying bidder policies.

I decided to just keep the cards and use them myself. eBay drama just isn't worth it. Ethereum price will likely rebound in the next 30-60 days. Chart looks like it bottomed and might be breaking up out of a falling wedge.
 
You probably know this, but that's because eBay won't let sellers leave negative feedback for deadbeat bidders.

Yup, absolutely ridiculous. I have set my preferences so that anyone with 2 unpaid items complaints in a year cannot bid on my items or buy them among other things. No seller protections on eBay
 
Paypal alone will some times screw you as well. It's become horribly difficult to sell expensive goods online. Of course we can often absorb the loss of small ticket items when that 1 out every so many sells goes to a scammer! But when it's a big ticket item it FREAKING hurts! Even those small ticket losses aren't good. To remain competitive you only make a few bucks on small ticket items. After shipping and fees you get to pocket a few bucks per.... but when scammers get to keep the item and their cash you lose shipping and the amount invested. If this happens too many times the scammers can effectively eat up the entirety of your profit.... Even some times putting you in the RED
 
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I hope you noted the serial numbers of the cards because you might get back his dead cards.
 
Nothing is wrong with the cards. He's just having buyers remorse as the prices begin to go down. I'm guessing this won't be the only time that this happens! All these purchases have 2 months to initiate a return under the protection programs. All you can do is begin the return process.


EBay's money back guarantee policy allows buyers 30 days from the actual or latest estimated delivery date to open a case. If the seller shipped with tracking that shows delivery, the buyer's deadline is 30 days from the actual delivery date.

For PayPal cases, the deadline is 45 days from the payment date.


OP, I feel for you. EBay's policies have swung far too much towards the buyer over the years. I cringe every time I read one of these posts. I've been a seller since 1998 and now do mostly buying because of the swing.

Good luck ...
 
EBay's money back guarantee policy allows buyers 30 days from the actual or latest estimated delivery date to open a case. If the seller shipped with tracking that shows delivery, the buyer's deadline is 30 days from the actual delivery date.

For PayPal cases, the deadline is 45 days from the payment date.


OP, I feel for you. EBay's policies have swung far too much towards the buyer over the years. I cringe every time I read one of these posts. I've been a seller since 1998 and now do mostly buying because of the swing.

Good luck ...

Wasnt it they had 6 months to do so, or did that change recently.
 
Wasnt it they had 6 months to do so, or did that change recently.


From eBay's website: (http://pages.ebay.com/ebay-money-back-guarantee/questions.html)


"What timelines should I be aware of?
  • Seller’s return window: Review the seller’s return policy and return window before you make a purchase.
  • If you did not receive the item, or the item is not as described, you have 30 days from your actual or latest estimated delivery date to open a request, under the eBay Money Back Guarantee. "


From Paypal's website: (https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security)

"Purchase Protection covers all eligible purchases where PayPal is used, as well as payments made through our website. To take advantage of Purchase Protection, we require, among other things, that PayPal accounts be kept in good standing and ask that a dispute be filed within 180 days of your purchase or payment." - I stand corrected. They changed it from 45 to 180days.


I stand corrected. Damn, PP's protection policy gives buyers a huge amount of power. The policy really increases the risk to sellers ...
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Man, sorry you are having to deal with the eBay scammers. Lately, every time I have sold anything on EBay, I have been scammed in some way or another. The last one was selling my Mac Mini 2012 model. I upgraded it with SSDs, memory and it worked fine. The FAN was working too. But when they received it, they opened a case saying the fan didn’t work and they had to replace it and requested a $15 refund. Since it was only $15, I went ahead and did it. But the $15 matches what I charged for the shipping. They just wanted their money back to get free shipping.

I sold a V1 radar on EBay as well that worked fine. I took it out of my car, packed it up, and sent it off. The guy got it and said it didn’t work. He kept just saying it didn’t work when I asked him questions like did you try another port, etc. It was already fishy that he wouldn’t respond other than it doesn’t work 3-4 times. After dealing with EBay/PayPal, they actually sided with the seller me. He wouldn’t ship the unit back either when asked.

well...crud.....


Ebay notified me that my buyer wants a return on two RX470 cards I sold. Here is what the return notice says:


TWO AMD Radeon RX 470 4GB - NEW OEM video cards, Hynix, Ethereum 2 DAY FREE SHIP
Item ID:
222577384627
Order ID:
222577384627-1934314027012
Buyer email:
[omitted]@occomputertechs.com
Sale price:
$614.99
Sale date:
Jul-11-17 17:30:23 PDT
Buyer ID:
won.pa9
Return ID:
5060320389
Return opened:
Jul-18-17 12:05:58 PDT
Return shipping:
seller pays
Return reason:
Doesn't work or defective
Comments: both cards turn on for 2 seconds, spins and doesn t boot up. I am running corsair 1000 w, gold. Please refund my money


The buyer has 0 feedback score --- (why can't I block 0 feedback score buyer eBay???? GRRR)
http://www.ebay.com/usr/won.pa9?_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2754

So basically I know this guy is either A) lying or B) user error.

These are two RX470's I pulled from a brand new CyberPower system I purchased.

I packed them extremely well - anti-static bags, bubble warp, and foam.

I suspect he is simply lying because look at his e-mail address domain -- @occomputertechs.com --- based on that e-mail I'd expect he wouldn't be incompetent.

Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if they actually still work perfectly well and he just wants to return them because he has no skin in the game --- he gets a full and complete refund, and can rebuy another pair of cards at much lower prices since the mining profitability has fallen off. I sold the pair for $615 with a buy it now. Today you can buy the pair for more like $500 or less. Obviously he decided to purchase the cards at $615 - which was cheaper than the other RX 470's at the time. With mining profits down he probably regrets his decision. (even though I shipped them free with 2 day Fedex!)


I thoroughly tested these cards before I sent them.
I checked FAN RPM speeds via manual tuning in AMD Wattman, and MSI afterburner. I ran benchmarks that stressed the cards to 100% for hours and made sure everything was stable before I sold them because I didn't want problems (It'd be easier to send them back to Cyberpower directly if there was a problem than deal with a third party on eBay). He doesn't claim that they were damaged in shipping - just that he has no display and the fans don't spin - - which simply can't be true.


I sent this reply: (because it doesn't serve me well to start out aggressive in case it is truly just user error)

Pak, I see your note that you are not seeing the fans spin up. I think we can easily resolve this concern because it is not a failure. The fan spin up is related to heat build up, if there is no heat build up the fans don't spin. I had eight of these cards for sale from four brand new CyberPower systems I pulled them from. All eight fans on these RX470 behaved identically. They all spin a bit when the power is pressed, and then turn off until they have enough heat build up to engage again. this is normal and expected stock RX 470 behavior. As to no display -- let's work through this - because I assure you the cards work perfectly. What display connection are you using? Do you have a six pin PCI-E power connector connected to each card? Did you select the right input mode on the monitor/display? (HDMI/DisplayPort etc). Can you please send a quick video of the cards in action? Based on your e-mail I expect you are a computer shop owner or worker. I would expect you've tried these things, but I can attest with all my integrity, that those cards were new System pull cards - I tested thoroughly before I sent them - and even verified the fans worked under load and were able to be changed using the fan speed tuner in AMD wattman and MSI afterburner. I've been in the IT occupation for nearly 20 years - building many systems for my hobby and day job. I work in Information Security at the [..omitted..]. Those cards worked absolutely perfectly and were brand new system pulls, just as I stated, and I fully expect we can get them working. Please respond to my questions above. My phone number is [...omitted....]. Please call me and I can help you walk through getting the cards working I'm sure.


The problem now of course is I have no ability to prove he's lying or incompetent. If I go after him aggressively - he can simply intentionally break them - pop a capacitor or transistor off, or actually break the fan and then send them back in a truly failed state and then I have definitely do have two broken cards. (and if there is intentional damage I don't know if CyberPower would even warranty them???

Yes, I have the serial number pictures of course, but even there - he can just swap out the backplates with identical cards if he had defective ones, and send me the defective cards with my cards backplates attached. There's no real recourse for me here if the buyer lacks integrity, is there?


Any suggestions on how to handle this?
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
From eBay's website: (http://pages.ebay.com/ebay-money-back-guarantee/questions.html)


"What timelines should I be aware of?
  • Seller’s return window: Review the seller’s return policy and return window before you make a purchase.
  • If you did not receive the item, or the item is not as described, you have 30 days from your actual or latest estimated delivery date to open a request, under the eBay Money Back Guarantee. "


From Paypal's website: (https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security)

"Purchase Protection covers all eligible purchases where PayPal is used, as well as payments made through our website. To take advantage of Purchase Protection, we require, among other things, that PayPal accounts be kept in good standing and ask that a dispute be filed within 180 days of your purchase or payment." - I stand corrected. They changed it from 45 to 180days.


I stand corrected. Damn, PP's protection policy gives buyers a huge amount of power. The policy really increases the risk to sellers ...


Yeah your telling me, we were swapping a bunch of drives could only ship 10-15 every two to four weeks to a re-seller and the twerp burned me for 7 orders on day 177. PayPal can go to hell!
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Prices dropped and the guy looking to make a quick buck realized the sham is over.

I would cooperate, he can make those cards defective and you'll be powerless to do anything about it, and you'll be out 600 bucks.
 
I put a note in my listings that buyers must have at least 50 feedback, 98%+ status, and 1 year+ account history. If they don't and they buy I will cancel their order. Seems to work well at filtering out idiots. I also take photos of everything and their serial numbers next to the tracking postage labels in case any idiots try and get bright ideas.
 
I put a note in my listings that buyers must have at least 50 feedback, 98%+ status, and 1 year+ account history. If they don't and they buy I will cancel their order. Seems to work well at filtering out idiots. I also take photos of everything and their serial numbers next to the tracking postage labels in case any idiots try and get bright ideas.

I've resorted to filming the unboxing of any collectibles (usually Tranformers) I buy on eBay. I've bought a couple MISB (mint in sealed box) items with the tape cut on them :(
 
I put a note in my listings that buyers must have at least 50 feedback, 98%+ status, and 1 year+ account history. If they don't and they buy I will cancel their order. Seems to work well at filtering out idiots. I also take photos of everything and their serial numbers next to the tracking postage labels in case any idiots try and get bright ideas.
except you can't actually cancel their order.
 
The one time I ever had negative feedback on ebay there was nothing I could do about it. I recorded video of myself unlocking the postal locker(the kind you put the key in and then you can't remove the key) with the returned item. I put batteries in, powered it up, and demonstrated that it worked. PayPal said it doesn't matter. Irrefutable evidence that a buyer is full of shit and PayPal said it doesn't matter.

So, sorry OP, but PayPal doesn't care about fraud. Oh, they do shit like this to make it look like they care about buyers, but you know they're just in it for the money. There apparently aren't enough people that think PayPal sucks to make a difference, because they're still in business.
 
I've taken to snapping "proof pics" (and even "proof vids") of :
1) Hardware being tested
2) Hardware being packed
3) Detailed close-ups (eg. CPUs - no physical defects, no missing caps, etc.; serial #s in general, etc.)

I always add detailed links of the above to the eBay item notes.
Let's 'em know that they can't f*ck with me.

Came in useful once when some Chinese deadbeat tried to scam me out of a 3970X.
 
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