How should WoW end? How should any MMO end?

Michael Moore will make a movie about it and everyone will feel too guilty about how much damage WoW has done to the world and stop playing.
 
piscian18 said:
Michael Moore will make a movie about it and everyone will feel too guilty about how much damage WoW has done to the world and stop playing.
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lol the sad thing is I could see that happening. The Michael Moore movie part at least
 
Agreed... sort of. WoW has definitely not been the same since TBC. Blizzard refined the art of content creation, and created a million more things for you to grind. After I played the expansion for a bit, I realised the whole game is just a hardcore grind for something.

WoW won't die though, so long as Blizzard is making so much money from it.
 
I quit WoW about 3 weeks ago.

I was in a good guild but trying the same "hard-mode" (also known as "play with one hand" )boss for 2 weeks straight finally broke me. sold my account and bought some new stuff.
 
Draax said:
Meh, IMO, WoW died when burning crusade was released.
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WoW is far better now than it ever was. The classic content is terribly boring compared to what we have now.

All they've done now, is allow anyone who reaches 80 to get geared up to experience raids. It's not an elitist community like it was in the past, where only a few hundred people on any given server would be able to raid.
 
petertew said:
Right, because there's no way someone could substitute their WoW gaming time with Diablo 3 playing time. :rolleyes:
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They can but you wont see the mass account cancellations like you would if a better MMO where to come out.

Im also willing to bet the average wow player spends a hell of alot more time in wow then the average diablo player spends in diablo.
 
pfunkman said:
They can but you wont see the mass account cancellations like you would if a better MMO where to come out.

Im also willing to bet the average wow player spends a hell of alot more time in wow then the average diablo player spends in diablo.
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There are much better MMOs out than WoW. WoW is simply targeted towards a larger audience.
 
pfunkman said:
They can but you wont see the mass account cancellations like you would if a better MMO where to come out.

Im also willing to bet the average wow player spends a hell of alot more time in wow then the average diablo player spends in diablo.
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i played way more diablo than i ever have WoW.
 
It's been about 3 months since I've played. Maybe it's a bit elitist, but I prefer the days of BWL and AQ when having good gear actually meant something. Now everyone gets easy badge and Naxx loot handed to them and even terrible players have all purples.

I also hate the focus on pointless achievements. Vehicles certainly aren't my thing either. The more they change the more I dislike it.

Instead of working on proper class balance Blizz adds worthless crap like jousting.

Fail...
 
SixtyWattMan said:
wtf is a niche mmo?
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one that has 200k subscribers compared to one with 9 million and has a specific gameplay mechanism and persistent world different from other mmos

niche
  /nɪtʃ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [nich] Show IPA
3. a distinct segment of a market.
 
ex0du5 said:
WoW is far better now than it ever was. The classic content is terribly boring compared to what we have now.

All they've done now, is allow anyone who reaches 80 to get geared up to experience raids. It's not an elitist community like it was in the past, where only a few hundred people on any given server would be able to raid.
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That was the appeal though. In order to experience the end game stuff you HAD to have 40 people that new their shit. Now it feels like go talk to this guy and get phat epix. IMO casual gamers killed WoW. I logged on one time in the last 3-4 months saw LFG PUG NAXX 25 man and logged right back out. Naxx used to be blow 3 hours on 1 boss praying the whole time he dropped and you had enough DKP to get your gear. You earned it now it's log on get your stuff.
 
Wrench said:
That was the appeal though. In order to experience the end game stuff you HAD to have 40 people that new their shit. Now it feels like go talk to this guy and get phat epix. IMO casual gamers killed WoW. I logged on one time in the last 3-4 months saw LFG PUG NAXX 25 man and logged right back out. Naxx used to be blow 3 hours on 1 boss praying the whole time he dropped and you had enough DKP to get your gear. You earned it now it's log on get your stuff.
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This is the reason I said there were better games out there. One of the reasons I loved FFXI so much was that even the "old" end game "raids" you would wipe if you didn't know what you were doing. And the new stuff....... well hell lets just say not many people made sucessful Salvage runs and the idea of "throwing enough people at it" actually made it harder than using less, better skilled people.
 
ex0du5 said:
WoW is far better now than it ever was. The classic content is terribly boring compared to what we have now.

All they've done now, is allow anyone who reaches 80 to get geared up to experience raids. It's not an elitist community like it was in the past, where only a few hundred people on any given server would be able to raid.
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That's really not a good thing.
 
what do you mean not a good thing....

not a good think for who. all the people that are tired of WOW;....
 
MrFace said:
That's really not a good thing.
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I agree. There should exist content in an MMO that only the elite will experiance. Not because the elite are entitled to it, not at all. But instead so it gives you something to strive for and it gives you a sense of accomplishment.
 
I quit before Ulduar came out... is it not hard like they said? I remember back in BC, only the top couple guilds per server were rocking out in BT, everyone else was stuck in the T5 zones. Then when they did the 1st nerf it was a repeat with top guilds in Sunwell and everyone else back in BT.

Naxx was never meant to be difficult, just fun and a starter. Is Heroix Ulduar not difficult either? That's a shame.

I quit because WOTLK totally devastated every aspect of PvP.
 
twoblueeyes78 said:
Need to go. I figure it has about 2 more expantions before its lost
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Considering that they have gained MILLIONS with each expansion so far i have to question your logic.

vengence said:
FFXI - Hardcore PvE
Eve Online - Hardcore PvP

many ex WoW people will say LOTRO.
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Im actually playing LOTRO now and love it. FFXI is a horrible snoozefest the likes of EQ. Massive grindfest games like EQ and FFXI are relics of the past doomed to death.
 
pfunkman said:
Im actually playing LOTRO now and love it. FFXI is a horrible snoozefest the likes of EQ. Massive grindfest games like EQ and FFXI are relics of the past doomed to death.
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The leveling in FFXI is very EQ insanity grind fest. I don't miss it. TBH though, I find "go collect 20 boar teeth" to be just as bad if not worse than XP mob grinding but that's just me.

The end game (read "raiding") imho is a different story. I honestly don't think anything is as good as Salvage in terms of an end game raid.

Little back ground on salvage:

1) You can take up to 18 people in (note: no one takes 18 people in, you'll see why in a min)
2) When you enter your HP/MP stats are gimped to about 20% of thier normal values. All your gear falls off and is unequipable. Using abilities and Spells are disabled. Using items is disabled.
3) In front of you is a chest that contains a number of unlocks for the things mentioned in 2. iirc it's around 8. One unlock will unlock one thing such as strength OR hp OR an being able to wear a weapon, etc. It does not increase if you take more people.
4) Beyond the chest is a dungen. There are different paths and about 5 bosses who drop the treasure your seeking. It is impossible to kill them all. In fact the best groups of elite players have trouble killing 3 of them and generally try to do 2. Most disorganized groups will wipe within 5 mins. There is a hard time limit and no way to extend it.
5) Killing monsters causes drops to unlock your gear and stats and such, however that takes time.
6) The bosses are not push overs.


What this means is taking more people means you have to spend more time to get their stuff unlocked. This also means less drops per person. The result is a dungen that works well with small 6-9 man groups of well skilled people. Which is much better than 40 idiots running through something simply because they've managed to get 40 people toegether at the same time.
 
vengence said:
Little back ground on salvage:

1) You can take up to 18 people in (note: no one takes 18 people in, you'll see why in a min)
2) When you enter your HP/MP stats are gimped to about 20% of thier normal values. All your gear falls off and is unequipable. Using abilities and Spells are disabled. Using items is disabled.
3) In front of you is a chest that contains a number of unlocks for the things mentioned in 2. iirc it's around 8. One unlock will unlock one thing such as strength OR hp OR an being able to wear a weapon, etc. It does not increase if you take more people.
4) Beyond the chest is a dungen. There are different paths and about 5 bosses who drop the treasure your seeking. It is impossible to kill them all. In fact the best groups of elite players have trouble killing 3 of them and generally try to do 2. Most disorganized groups will wipe within 5 mins. There is a hard time limit and no way to extend it.
5) Killing monsters causes drops to unlock your gear and stats and such, however that takes time.
6) The bosses are not push overs.
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Woah, honestly that sounds to me like nothing more than a stupid gimmick to make you spend more time than you should need to for some pretty shitty rewards when you consider the time spent.

vengence said:
What this means is taking more people means you have to spend more time to get their stuff unlocked. This also means less drops per person. The result is a dungen that works well with small 6-9 man groups of well skilled people. Which is much better than 40 idiots running through something simply because they've managed to get 40 people toegether at the same time.
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Which is whats wrong with the dated grindfest games like EQ and FFXI. All that work and time invested for shitty results. What it does is seperates the "hardcore" from the casuals and puts them into a tiny percentage at the top like EQ did. Now i dont think things should be a big ass loot pinata like wow is now but keeping such a massive gap between the top few percent and the casuals kills games and takes the fun out for the average player.
 
pfunkman said:
Woah, honestly that sounds to me like nothing more than a stupid gimmick to make you spend more time than you should need to for some pretty shitty rewards when you consider the time spent.
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The gear you get from Salvage is a tier above anything else avaliable. It's a hell of a reward. The time to get it however, was ultimately too much for me. That and if I got it, I would have nothing to wear it too. It's actually what drove me to quit. I could beat salvage, but I wasn't willing to dedicate the time to do it and then have no reason to have the gear as I would have beaten everything.



pfunkman said:
Which is whats wrong with the dated grindfest games like EQ and FFXI. All that work and time invested for shitty results. What it does is seperates the "hardcore" from the casuals and puts them into a tiny percentage at the top like EQ did. Now i dont think things should be a big ass loot pinata like wow is now but keeping such a massive gap between the top few percent and the casuals kills games and takes the fun out for the average player.
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There has to be some gap. If all it takes it to log on for one weekend and you can be at the level cap and then log in the next weekend and have all the gear you've made a single player RPG, not a MMO.
 
vengence said:
The gear you get from Salvage is a tier above anything else avaliable. It's a hell of a reward. The time to get it however, was ultimately too much for me. That and if I got it, I would have nothing to wear it too. It's actually what drove me to quit. I could beat salvage, but I wasn't willing to dedicate the time to do it and then have no reason to have the gear as I would have beaten everything.
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So you agree, im not clear? Time invested vs reward = shit?

vengence said:
There has to be some gap. If all it takes it to log on for one weekend and you can be at the level cap and then log in the next weekend and have all the gear you've made a single player RPG, not a MMO.
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I agree, there needs to be a gap but games like EQ and FFXI make that gap way too big and end up segregating the community.

A good example would be wow before wotlk. There was enough of a healthy gap between a BT/Sunwell guild and a casual kara/heroics guild. The causals had plenty to do and work for and the hardcore players had the same on a different level.
 
pfunkman said:
So you agree, im not clear? Time invested vs reward = shit?
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If there was more game to play after I got the gear? Then no I wouldn't agree, the reward was insane. It just came down to it being the last thing do to. I would agree the time vs reward was low, but not shit. Some of the "high quality" items (items with slightly higher stats) that cost 10 times or more were shit in thier time vs reward as they would increase you damage output by like 0.5%. These items as a set might do +50% vs the next best on damage output.

pfunkman said:
I agree, there needs to be a gap but games like EQ and FFXI make that gap way too big and end up segregating the community.

A good example would be wow before wotlk. There was enough of a healthy gap between a BT/Sunwell guild and a casual kara/heroics guild. The causals had plenty to do and work for and the hardcore players had the same on a different level.
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I think there is a lot of debate here. I personally prefer a larger gap to be honest. Clearly you don't. Perhaps that was because while I was playing FFXI I was in the upper tier in terms of "wealth" I don't know. It's not like there wasn't stuff for casuals to do in FFXI endgame.

The real failing of that game was you couldn't pick up and play for an hour at a time. While I loved the partying and the social aspects of it, it ultimately failed because of this imho.
 
elrechazao said:
one that has 200k subscribers compared to one with 9 million and has a specific gameplay mechanism and persistent world different from other mmos

niche
  /nɪtʃ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [nich] Show IPA
3. a distinct segment of a market.
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WoW is a distinct segment of the market, it is also a niche MMO.
 
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