How NVIDIA could rain on AMD's parade

PRIME1

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1.) Release a Titan ultra. A fully unlocked and highly clocked GK110
2.) Rename the regular Titan the 785 and drop it's price to $650 or whatever
3.) Drop the price of the 780 and 770 to match.
4.) Release a GK110 based 790

This is all assuming that they don't have a refresh (GK112?) ready.

Either way I hope the announcement today by AMD raises the bar while lowering prices, because I am in the market for a new card.
 

Nauseous

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still waiting for amd to prove they have a better product. i remember some hype about bulldozer...
 

n370zed

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Price cuts all across the board is what I'm hoping for. Particularly the 4gb GTX 770 so I can SLI and be set for atleast another year.
 

xBanzai89

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still waiting for amd to prove they have a better product. i remember some hype about bulldozer...

GPU division is way more competitive than their CPU division in for their respective markets. I don't see why it cannot happen. AMD held the crown for a good amount of time with the 5870. The 7970 reigned for 3 months and the 7970 GHz either matched or beat the 680. People are acting like AMD never had a faster card than Nvidia before :rolleyes:.
 

Unknown-One

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If they release anything it'll be a GTX 790 (Dual-GTX-780), or possibly a GTX 780+ with 6GB of RAM.

The GTX 780 and Titan are already too close together when it comes to gaming performance, we don't need a 3rd card (overclocked Titan) in that performance bracket.
 

Ruffy

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Titan for $500
Every other product scaled down appropriately under that.

We'd finally be back to sane GFX prices
 

Liger88

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an NVIDIA price drop is the best we can hope for.



This. Nvidia is NOT going to release any kind of "refresh" until 20nm becomes viable (i.e. Maxwell). I would like to see Nvidia explain why a Titan is $1,000 and GTX 780 is $650 if they bring a GTX 790 or Titan Ultra to < $1,000 because that would bring more questions than it would bring excitement for Team Green.

I'm impressed with AMD's "refresh" thus far with the 5 TFlops, smaller die, and possibly higher performance than a Titan. That shows Nvidia is either behind in refining the 28nm process or just really gouging the market with old parts and haven't bothered tweaking their parts since they dropped the first 600 Series card.
 

J Macker

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Titan price drop to $799.

mark my words. It will still be priced much higher than the R9 290X, guaranteed.
nVidia marketing is run as if they're oblivious to Radeon prices.
 

Unknown-One

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Titan price drop to $799.
Why bother? There are already GTX 780's going for $700 that provide gaming performance faster than the Titan.

The Titan is around to serve as a bridge between Nvidia's GeForce and Quadro series, with 100% unhampered compute units. There's no reason to reduce the premium for that capability.

More likely, you'll see a price drop on the 780.
 
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smaller die FTW - anything Nvidia does will only be costly for them - wanna stay green pay the toll - want more sane pricing go red - fanboois need not apply.
 

Unknown-One

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smaller die FTW - anything Nvidia does will only be costly for them - wanna stay green pay the toll - want more sane pricing go red - fanboois need not apply.
Might not have a choice if you need or want features that only Nvidia cards have :rolleyes:
 
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I never understood these topics. Go buy your overpriced Nvidia cards already.

You guys are the same group that bitched and moaned when the 7970 was released for 600 dollars.
 

Elios

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5 bucks NV resurrects Glide and we go right back to insanity of the 90's with APIs
 

Forceman

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mark my words. It will still be priced much higher than the R9 290X, guaranteed.
nVidia marketing is run as if they're oblivious to Radeon prices.

Probably because from a sales standpoint, they are.

If they can sell their target number of cards at a higher price than AMD, why would they care what AMD priced their cards at? If they are making their sales and profit numbers, why get in a price war? Does Apple care what Samsung sells the G4 for? No, because they can sell the iPhone for whatever they want without hurting their sales numbers.
 

Unknown-One

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5 bucks NV resurrects Glide and we go right back to insanity of the 90's with APIs
If that happens, developers will just write in DirectX and OpenGL and call it a day.

Writing in some custom API (for AMD) + a standard one like DirectX or OpenGL (to support EVERYONE ELSE) is too time consuming and costly for most developers to consider it practical. Thrown in two vendor-specific APIs and most of them will just say "screw it" and go with the path of least resistance.

For Mantle to take off, AMD + Intel + Nvidia will all have to support it.
 

Elios

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If that happens, developers will just write in DirectX and OpenGL and call it a day.

Writing in some custom API (for AMD) + a standard one like DirectX or OpenGL (to support EVERYONE ELSE) is too time consuming and costly for most developers to consider it practical. Thrown in two vendor-specific APIs and most of them will just say "screw it" and go with the path of least resistance.

For Mantle to take off, AMD + Intel + Nvidia will all have to support it.
thats best case and what i hope happens

worst case is you end up with Frostbite games being AMD only and say UE games being NV only NOT a good out come
 

Lorien

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Mantle is not AMD only, go download the video and carefully read the slides from the DICE guy...
Developers themselves have been asking for this for years. AMD is right now the only one capable of giving it to them because they can leverage their position of having their hardware on all gaming platforms. No one else can. All Nvidia has to do now is license/support it and they'll reap the same benefits. Let's hope their egos don't get in the way of the benefit for their customers as they'll have to do exactly what they said AMD should have done when they sarcastically told them to license CUDA ;)
 

Elios

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Mantle is no AMD only, go download the video and read the slides from the DICE guy...
Developers themselves have been asking for this for years. AMD is right now the only one capable of giving it to them because they can leverage their position of having their hardware on all gaming platforms.

oh yes it is AMD only
BF4 has to have a DX11 engine in it or they would be stupid to launch a game on PC be for the hardware to play it even came out

mark my words we will see an AMD only game be for this is all over

you need to learn how "low level APIs" work if it runs one any other hardware its no longer "low level"
 

Lorien

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oh yes it is AMD only
BF4 has to have a DX11 engine in it or they would be stupid to launch a game on PC be for the hardware to play it even came out

mark my words we will see an AMD only game be for this is all over

you need to learn how "low level APIs" work if it runs one any other hardware its no longer "low level"

Why are you still typing word vomit instead of reading the slides from the DICE presentation?
 

Elios

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Mantle = GLIDE
you cant be "low level" and "to the metal" AND be an open abstraction
it doesnt work that way
 

PRIME1

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Mantle = GLIDE
you cant be "low level" and "to the metal" AND be an open abstraction
it doesnt work that way

Without support from NVIDIA and Intel (which I doubt they will get). It will fail even faster than GLIDE did. AMD is heading down the same path as 3DFX.
 

Elios

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Without support from NVIDIA and Intel (which I doubt they will get). It will fail even faster than GLIDE did. AMD is heading down the same path as 3DFX.

i dont want to see AMD die off that would be just as bad but letting them get a pass on low level API is a bad idea as NV will counter with the same idea
and as i said we end up back to what we had in the 90's or we end up with effectively a console war on the desktop
as both will try to get exclusive games
and i like not having to worry if i game i want will run on the hardware i have thats why i game on PC
 

polonyc2

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How NVIDIA could rain on AMD's parade?

get the 20nm fab plants churning out parts quicker...price cuts will be a stop gap solution but 20nm will be the real answer
 

Lorien

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Skip to 11:47. "So I've been talking about this type of approach for years with the various graphics vendors"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLt5RVGJfQY

Very first slide after he introduces mantle.
7uYQ72G.jpg


And if you want a little bit of history when this all got started read this from 2 years ago:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/120
 

PRIME1

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jwcalla

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But the term "cross-platform" refers to an OS, not a graphics vendor. He clarifies this context as he says, "The intention is going to be cross-platform, which is really, really important for us, but Windows initially."

So platform refers to OS. I didn't see or hear anything in that presentation about accessibility to Intel and NVIDIA. Which makes sense because low-level APIs don't work that way.

And even here I'm suspicious of what is meant by "cross-platform". He could actually mean PS4 / XB1 / Windows PC rather than, say, Windows, OS X and Linux.
 

pxc

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* simpler way

just sell more hardware at better margins. :p

You do realize that the marquee products represent a very tiny, nearly insignificant, amount of sales? So what if AMD takes the top end performance lead. People spending $600 or more on video cards deserve it or whatever.
 

Elios

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see as how they where hyping being in PS4, XB1 and Wii U you bet your ass thats what they mean

one API to rule them all
 

Lorien

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But the term "cross-platform" refers to an OS, not a graphics vendor. He clarifies this context as he says, "The intention is going to be cross-platform, which is really, really important for us, but Windows initially."

So platform refers to OS. I didn't see or hear anything in that presentation about accessibility to Intel and NVIDIA. Which makes sense because low-level APIs don't work that way.

And even here I'm suspicious of what is meant by "cross-platform". He could actually mean PS4 / XB1 / Windows PC rather than, say, Windows, OS X and Linux.

From the quickness of your reply I know you didn't read nor listened to the presentation therefore your uneducated assumption is nothing more than word vomit. People, please try to do better you are embarrassing to watch :(

Gonna steal a quote from beyond3d explaining it quickly and to the point: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1788615&postcount=183
What's different between CUDA and Mantle is CUDA is effectively a language while Mantle is an API. It's easier to support multiple APIs than to rewrite your entire code base. I don't expect to see any game support only Mantle. Many engines today already support DX and OpenGL.

The difference between Mantle and Glide is in the Glide days there were many graphics vendors and now it's a duopoly for discrete graphics. The other difference is many games license graphics engines so the engine teams can do the extra work and these game teams will get support for free.
Last sentence is key. When a game engine supports mantle ALL games built on it will support mantle without the need for any particular developer to do any extra work.

he9xbG2.jpg
 
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Elios

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you need to think like a board member
how can my company destroy its competition?
well if i was AMD id push this HARD on the console side
get them to use it get the next wave of game engines to support it only on the console side
then throw money at them to keep it that way for the PC port
not only does it make less work (porting XB1 with mantle to PC with mantle would take almost zero work)
but it locks people to AMD hardware forcing them to buy AMD if they want to play that AAA game on PC

its a great move business wise
NV is hurting already this could tip the scales if it takes off with devs

if you dont think the C level management is thinking this at AMD your nuts
AMDs prime motive is MAKE MONEY they dont care about you or PC gaming
AMD will make more on there deal with Sony MS and Nintendo then they will off PC card sales
 

jwcalla

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From the quickness of your reply I know you didn't read nor listened to the presentation therefore your uneducated assumption is nothing more than word vomit. People, please try to do better you are embarrassing to watch :(

You would be wrong. How could I quote the guy verbatim if I hadn't watched the video? Regarding the other link, it was dated 2001 so I didn't see how it was pertinent.

Gonna steal a quote from beyond3d explaining it quickly and to the point: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1788615&postcount=183
Last sentence is key. When a game engine supports mantle ALL games built on it will support mantle without the need for any particular developer to do any extra work.

Yeah. And that means... what? Not what you think it means. So the game works with Mantle. Where is the evidence that the other side of the Mantle piece (the GPU drivers and graphics vendors) are going to be actually implementing that API?

A simple authoritative statement that says plainly that NVIDIA or Intel can use Mantle would be sufficient.
 
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