how hard or likely is it to successfully OC dual rank 2x16gb 3600 cl16 modules to 4000+ mhz?

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Sep 14, 2016
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so after some researching on benefits of running dual rank memory (2x16 or 4x8gb for example) it seems there can be a decent amount of performance to be gained, even in games,
10-15% not being out of the question on the same frequency and timings when comparing 4x4 or 2x16 vs 2x8 (4x4 and 2x16 being faster because of dual rank and the interleaving benefits from that)


so I was looking at different options and found a gskill kit 2x16gb dual rank module kit, (F4-3600C16D-32GTZN) with 3600 cl 16-16-16-36 timings , and have some questions,

how likely is it that this kit is able to be pushed further with same or similar timings?
from my research it seems that both running 4 sticks in dual rank, or 2 sticks that are dual rank, is much harder to push to super high frequencies vs 2 single rank dimms, true?

was basically having a dilemma if I should get 4x8 gb of something like 4000mhz cl17 or 2x8 gb 3600mhz cl16 , both options would be dual rank but not sure what is the best option and most likely to overclock/tune timings,


if anyone has any insight in dual rank OC possibilities either on 2 dual rank sticks or 4 single rank sticks (which effectively will run in dual rank) then i'd appreciate any feedback!


PS this is on intel z390 platform with 9700k cpu (probably z490 platform later this year if that matters)

cheers
 
2x16 3600 16-16-16 will likely do 4000c16-c17 ok with ~1.45-1.5v with a good MB like Z390 Apex.
 
The motherboard will have little to do with it since the memory controller is on the CPU.
 
A good MB improves the signal quality between the RAM and the memory controller making it easier on both.
The quality of the MB lanes traced between the RAM and the memory controller and the thickness of the PCB has a lot to do with it as does it's BIOS.

MB with two RAM slots that are made with overclocking in mind will always get a bit further than a MB with 4 RAM slots especially if they are configured for T-topology which is optimized for 4 sticks.


There is also different PCB designs for RAM for which I will quote somebody else that knows more about it than me.

4400C19 are a high binned kit which was known to be A2 layout (short trace layout will make issues on cheap boards) but technically 3600C15 could be a far better IC, if you have luck and get A1 PCB with it and the IC isn't pure garabge
A1 layouts are focused on very very low timings, as traces are shorter than A0 (Viper 4000C19 can be sometimes on A0 sometimes on A1) and compatibility is better with normal and daisy chain boards
But A2 can run far higher maximum speeds ~ after the 4200 range the difference between A1 and A2 shows
https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1744418-these-better-binned-b-dies-2.html

If you can find 3200c14 cheaper it is also about equal to 3600c16 and stands a good chance to hit ~4000c16-c17 but if you are aiming for very high frequency the value drops off and you need to spend a lot of cash for very little gain.
 
A good MB improves the signal quality between the RAM and the memory controller making it easier on both.
The quality of the MB lanes traced between the RAM and the memory controller and the thickness of the PCB has a lot to do with it as does it's BIOS.

MB with two RAM slots that are made with overclocking in mind will always get a bit further than a MB with 4 RAM slots especially if they are configured for T-topology which is optimized for 4 sticks.


There is also different PCB designs for RAM for which I will quote somebody else that knows more about it than me.


https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1744418-these-better-binned-b-dies-2.html

If you can find 3200c14 cheaper it is also about equal to 3600c16 and stands a good chance to hit ~4000c16-c17 but if you are aiming for very high frequency the value drops off and you need to spend a lot of cash for very little gain.


yeah, after some research the MB definitely plays a factor here not just the IMC on the cpu,

anyway, after some considerations about ranks and kits, and how hard/impossible it is to find high frequency+low timing dual rank kits compared to single rank kits,

I was thinking that perhaps instead of getting something like a XI maximus gene board with 2x16gb 3600 16-16-16-36 like I first planned in my first post,
perhaps it would be better getting a XI maximus hero board and go with 4x8 4133 17-17-17-37 kits instead?


reasoning is, the XI hero board is T-Topology and the sticks are on the QVL list both at gskill and asus site, as well as the fact that the XI hero supports up to 4400 officially,
so going down a couple ratios to 4133 could perhaps make it more likely to work straight out of the box at XMP with no issues?

and in this case I would also not need to worry about overclocking or anything, i'd be perfectly happy with 4x8gb at 4133 17-17-17-37 and it would be dual ranked,

what do you think about this dasa? you seem to know a bit about this stuff, so if I would like to just "set and forget" but still have a dual rank setup with high speed and fairly tight timings,
think this could be a decent idea?


and yes, i'm fully aware that I would be paying a pretty stupid premium for those binned kits, but lets put that aside :p
 
4x8 at higher speeds is harder to do. youre better off with 2x16


well, from what I understand T-Topology boards work better when all 4 dimm slots are occupied? but in general fewer dimms are still easier on the IMC yes,
the problem here is this: I want dual rank, I want high frequency with tight timings, and I want to achieve this without having to gamble on successfully overclocking a
2x16 3600 kit and so on, and as far as i'm aware there are zero dual rank modules being sold with tight timings AND high frequency, all 2x16 kits are like 4000c19 or 3600c16 and so on...

(at least from what I can see?)


thats kind of why I had this idea of instead going 4x8 4133c17, run it at XMP and be happy, rather than 2x16 3600c16 and overclock and pray to get lucky :p


4133c17 is not like some extreme target either, at least not on a high-end T-Topology motherboard like the XI hero and with these g-skill kits, as far as I understand?
you really think its very unlikely these would run at XMP even when being on the QVL list and being pretty far from the max 4400-4800mhz range?

because like, there are a LOT of gskill/other vendor kits sold in 4x8gb packs with even higher frequencies than this,
to me it seems silly to sell them at all if it is some super hard task to get them to run at XMP at least, assuming a high-end T-Topology motherboard is being used of course,

(and i'm sure gskill etc sell them with those boards and enthusiasts in mind, IDK)


so idk... it just seems reasonable to me that getting this 4x8gb kit to run at xmp on a high-end board like the hero shouldn't be some impossible task :/
 
you asked for advice, you know better, so try it.

I mean, I understand the advantages of having 2 dimms instead of 4 when going for high frequencies, and i'm not claiming to know better :D
i'm just questioning how difficult it is in reality to run these 4x8gb kits on high-end motherboards at XMP speed..

(and what the purpose is of even selling them in the first place, if it really is that far-fetched..oh well)


basically it comes down to 2 choices, 2x16 3600mhz 16-16-16 on something like a maximus gene (2 dimm slots) and try to OC to 4000-4133 at c16-c17,
or 4x8 4133 17-17-17 on something like a maximus hero and try to run at XMP... i'm just trying to figure out which one of these two options is most likely to succeed,

as it would be a hassle to return kits / board after the purchase and so on... of course if I didn't care about dual rank then everything would be easier :p

its a dilemma lol..


edit: pretty good video about this stuff (timestamped to the interesting part about topologies and expected frequencies) :

 
I am running 4x8GB 3200c14 in a older t-top MB
6700k max frequency with two sticks was 4000c17 2t
7700k 3600c14 1t with two sticks or 3600c14\15 2t with 4 sticks
So 4 sticks didn't affect the max frequency for my system just timings a bit.

Your plan sounds solid if you just want to buy a 4x8GB 4133c17 kit and enable XMP since it is on the QVL although the price for that RAM kit is up there.
 
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