HardOCP News
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How EAs Founder Avoided $26M In Taxes
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UrielDagda
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I wonder if there are wealthy people that write off the money they spend buying congressmen using the same words?
flashoverride
Limp Gawd
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Doh! Links to Ars Technica and I'm not giving them a single click. Will have to check for another source. That or continue not caring.
sfsuphysics
[H]F Junkie
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Private jet nets losses... I'm sorry I can't write off gas, oil, maintenance, new tires, detailing, etc for my car and yeah my car is mostly used to go to work and back.
But hey someone below the poverty level gets money back!!!
But hey someone below the poverty level gets money back!!!
Yeah, especially because it's not usually the rich/corporations that fund the lobbyists to muck up the system. I know my granny played a huge role in getting the tax code so convoluted that even the IRS can't figure it out! She did it between bingo and jeopardy.
Hmm... let me understand the difference between RICH and middle class people. If you're RICH, and you file for Bankruptcy in your HOME STATE, and you have several estates located in California, Florida and Texas, you get to keep that property. Where as middle class people loose everything because they don't have property in other states. [bankruptcy law must apply equally to rich and poor alike]
Hmm... doesn't sound equal to me when middle class people loose everything and the RICH get to keep DOMESTIC ASSETS that SHOULD be seized to pay their debtors from the State in which the RICH filed Bankruptcy.
Hmm... doesn't sound equal to me when middle class people loose everything and the RICH get to keep DOMESTIC ASSETS that SHOULD be seized to pay their debtors from the State in which the RICH filed Bankruptcy.
Hmm... let me understand the difference between RICH and middle class people. If you're RICH, and you file for Bankruptcy in your HOME STATE, and you have several estates located in California, Florida and Texas, you get to keep that property. Where as middle class people loose everything because they don't have property in other states. [bankruptcy law must apply equally to rich and poor alike]
Hmm... doesn't sound equal to me when middle class people loose everything and the RICH get to keep DOMESTIC ASSETS that SHOULD be seized to pay their debtors from the State in which the RICH filed Bankruptcy.
Equal opportunity. The middle class are not forbidden to be rich therefore they could also owe several estates in different states and have the same laws applied to them...
DeathFromBelow
Supreme [H]ardness
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You keep on believing that. Enjoy your scraps.
I'm in the middle class lol. Just seeing how they justify their behavior. Middle class truly holds all burdens. Rich and poor people end up pushing it onto them.
Yeah, especially because it's not usually the rich/corporations that fund the lobbyists to muck up the system. I know my granny played a huge role in getting the tax code so convoluted that even the IRS can't figure it out! She did it between bingo and jeopardy.
Government of the people and for the people. It is or it isn't, theft is theft.
Fact: the vast majority of the people think it's ok to steal money from others as long are you call it government tax. They were ok with it when it was only 5% on the "millionaires and billionaires" of the early 20th century. Then they were to stupid or ignorant to figure out that with inflation they were suddenly the "rich" people and next thing you know you're paying over 55% of your income in taxation. Simple truth is grandma and grandpa at best failed to stop it or at the worst helped it to come about.
Uh, writing laws that give more breaks to the rich is the exact opposite of equality under the law. Also making it not illegal for a middle class person to become rich is not the same thing as equal opportunity at all. In fact the USA has lower social mobility than many European countries. The class you are born into has the largest determination of the opportunities you have in life. That's the whole point of public infrastructure, to try and level the playing field, which surprise, taxes fund.
It's not stealing. You've benefited and prospered from the public infrastructure you live in, but pay nothing back, how are you not stealing from society?
Semantics
2[H]4U
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Equality is not Justice, but it has a nice ring doesn't it?
Dimethyltryptamine
Limp Gawd
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The rich run the government and money talks. Get back in your soup line.
You can write it off.
Did you say that? No comment.
Read my reply to the person that replied to me. I'm being sarcastic.
This is just more proof we need The Fair Tax implemented sooner than later. Get rid of the horrifically complicated tax code and make everyone pay their fair share. The drug dealer gets taxed the same as everyone else then - when they spend their money.
What, you don't own three homes, one in a foreign country?
It's not that hard to do, just stay out of debt and keep working at a half decent job.
Stay out of debt.
Stay out of debt.
Stop giving people 15% or more of everything you spend because that's the 15% that allows you to save, to buy, to secure your future.
Stay ... out... of... debt.
If life has shit on you and no matter how hard you try you can't pull this off then I am sorry for you. You are not the person this message is intended for.
This message is intended for the people who are young enough to learn it before they get themselves messed over, for those that still have a chance.
That's fine but don't forget that government programs like Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, etc are a good part of that increased percentage. People were sold on the idea that the Government should do something to ensure that old folks had something saved for retirement so they took your money now so you would have it later because we are all too stupid to save for ourselves. So put it on Grandma and Grandpa if you want to, but make sure you understand everything that your going to make them carry. The 15% you pay now for Social Security and Medicare is "off the top" and for many people this is actually more costly then their income taxes which are taken from what's left over after Social Security and Medicare is deducted.
And 26 Million is chump change.
Back in about 2003 Symantec was charged an addition 1 billion dollars in taxes for an undervalued intellectual property transfer in Europe. That's a Billion more on their income taxes. How many billions does a mid ranged company like Symantec make to be paying billions in taxes and a little mistake raises their taxes by another Billion?
We, as individuals, have no real concept, no way to mentally visualize just how much money is floating around out there in the world. Maybe a million still sounds like a good sized number to most of us, but when the population is measured in billions that number starts taking on a whole new scale.
Back in about 2003 Symantec was charged an addition 1 billion dollars in taxes for an undervalued intellectual property transfer in Europe. That's a Billion more on their income taxes. How many billions does a mid ranged company like Symantec make to be paying billions in taxes and a little mistake raises their taxes by another Billion?
We, as individuals, have no real concept, no way to mentally visualize just how much money is floating around out there in the world. Maybe a million still sounds like a good sized number to most of us, but when the population is measured in billions that number starts taking on a whole new scale.
It's something many people don't realize, actually - of the major first-world countries, pretty much ONLY the UK has worse inter-generational mobility than the US.
In the US, the class you are born into is about 47% determinate of the class you will possibly end up in. The UK is 50%! Compare Germany, though, at 32%, Canada at 19%, or Denmark at only 15% (IE., look to Denmark as the model for what TRULY equal opportunity looks like - how well you do in life has practically no relation to what kind of social class you were born into...it's all on your own head, there!)
Some "light reading" on the topic
CreepyUncleGoogle
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Hmm... let me understand the difference between RICH and middle class people. If you're RICH, and you file for Bankruptcy in your HOME STATE, and you have several estates located in California, Florida and Texas, you get to keep that property. Where as middle class people loose everything because they don't have property in other states. [bankruptcy law must apply equally to rich and poor alike]
Hmm... doesn't sound equal to me when middle class people loose everything and the RICH get to keep DOMESTIC ASSETS that SHOULD be seized to pay their debtors from the State in which the RICH filed Bankruptcy.
The only problem is that you're mistaking "rich" for "has tons of debt" which isn't really wealth at all. It's just someone who has enough income to float notes in a lot of different places at once and is probably worth a negative dollar amount like anyone else with a mortgage, a car payment, and a buncha credit card debt. Don't fall into the American thinking trap of being infatuated with lots of loans as a way of showing off wealth. People with lots of debt and tons of stuff are still not wealthy.
Yeah, I can't wait to hear some of the explanations from some of the other posters as to why some of the most "socialist" countries provide the most opportunity for everyone and why that's a bad thing.
Dimethyltryptamine
Limp Gawd
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So...don't go to college, don't finance a decent* vehicle, and don't buy a home (have a mortgage). Got it. Easy peasy.
CreepyUncleGoogle
Supreme [H]ardness
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Well, um, there's lots of ways to go to college without going into debt. Getting a loan for a car is dumb for most people, but they do it anyway. Society has a way of like convincing you that you need to do that even though you can't really afford it and paying interest on a loan for what's really just a dumb metal box you use to go places is like some sorta smart idea. Mortgages are _really_ dumb for most people to get into because houses really like just don't gain much real value when you factor in stuff like inflation and repair or improvement costs which people totally love to ignore when they talk about how much "money" they "made" selling their house. Seriously, debt means someone is accruing interest against you and that means lost moolahs. It's pretty basic stuff.
GaryJohnson
[H]ard|Gawd
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Seems like you wouldn't get taxed under such a system if you were buying things under the table... like drugs, or purchasing things outside the U.S. and bringing them in... like drugs.
Also seems like such a system would stymie economic activity by punishing spending.
People in this country have been brainwashed into thinking any mention of the word 'socialism' in any context whatsoever is evil, because its not 'American'. Who the hell said being American was so bloody great anyway??? Its not for the majority of people living here.
A country where the majority of the population continues to vote Republican because 1) bible 2) anti-foreigners 2) they think helping others is anti-American is beyond stupid.
A country where the majority of the population continues to vote Republican because 1) bible 2) anti-foreigners 2) they think helping others is anti-American is beyond stupid.
D
Deleted member 204526
Guest
Debtyou said it three times and it still bears repeating. If I don't have the cash on hand to buy something, I don't buy it . . . period. As such, I'm not surrounded by the number material possessions that a lot of people with half or less of my income have, but I truly own what I do have. The piece of mind that comes of that is invaluable.
Dimethyltryptamine
Limp Gawd
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You couldn't work enough hours to make enough money to go to college and pay your way through now. They've done studies on this (Source). You're just wrong, meow. Either your parents have it (your really well off), or you work your way through it (which is highly unlikely these days), or you go into debt to get an education. Or you specifically are just going off extreme examples and then claiming anyone can be just like those cases. Yes, and I'm Superman
Out of necessity.
Yeah, your bus rides must be super duper fun. Have you ever seen the study about how (shit) dirty bus seats are, on average? I'd rather ride a horse to work (illegal now?).
Cardboard box it is then. Thanks, I'll post a sign on my cardboard house saying I got my life advice from skribblecat, online.
Money is based on debt. Do you use US fiat currency? I thought so.
Retronym
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Let me see if I have it right:
We need a consumption & debt based economy, so its evil to hoard money.
But...private jets = evil, so consumption = evil.
I guess its yay consumption economy until vague subconscious line is crossed, then boo consumption, yay philanthropy and theft, in place of more efficient capital distribution via consumption.
Consumption is conditional?
We need a consumption & debt based economy, so its evil to hoard money.
But...private jets = evil, so consumption = evil.
I guess its yay consumption economy until vague subconscious line is crossed, then boo consumption, yay philanthropy and theft, in place of more efficient capital distribution via consumption.
Consumption is conditional?
Dimethyltryptamine
Limp Gawd
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Plus don't (at least some) Native Americans have some kind of tax exempt card for sales tax? They do in my area at least. I can see everyone claiming they're Native Americans if it were to happen, or getting their Native American friends to buy everything for them...lol.
Three problems here:
1) Taxes are too complicated, needs massive simplification.
2) The wealthy pay plenty of taxes, HOWEVER, they shouldn't be "earning" (what a joke) the income that they do, as its akin to the factory owner raking in 90% of the profits, while paying his workers that create all the goods 10% which is totally disproportionate distribution between contribution and compensation.
3) The government is far too large, which translates into corruption when you have that much control/money, corporate favoritism, waste, and purchasing of votes.
1) Taxes are too complicated, needs massive simplification.
2) The wealthy pay plenty of taxes, HOWEVER, they shouldn't be "earning" (what a joke) the income that they do, as its akin to the factory owner raking in 90% of the profits, while paying his workers that create all the goods 10% which is totally disproportionate distribution between contribution and compensation.
3) The government is far too large, which translates into corruption when you have that much control/money, corporate favoritism, waste, and purchasing of votes.
Grahamkracka
[H]ard|Gawd
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DItto
You know it's kind of ironic, that as much as the USA supposedly celebrates freedom and democracy, the places the majority of people spend their time working and a good portion of their life in general are profoundly undemocratic. With the exception of cooperative corporations, the average employee has little to no say in how the company is run, what people's pay is, etc, in most cases, it's purely a top to bottom hierarchical power structure, the exact opposite of having freedom and a voice. In a way it's surprising that it's so openly accepted in a land that claims to value freedom, it feels like a contradiction.
Dimethyltryptamine
Limp Gawd
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"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." ~ Johann von Goethe
This country is not about freedom, it's about the illusion of freedom. When up to 50% of our income is forcibly taken from us through all forms of taxation and the other 40% goes to paying bills (just surviving) to the very same companies that also lobby in the government for your tax money, we aren't free. We're given free reign but there are still fences with guards and guns and that keeps the unfair diversification of natures resources in status quo. We're half owned and the other half is just screwed over = wage slaves. Time is the most valuable thing we humans have and only the richest really get to enjoy their, time (extreme examples set aside). Systems rigged folks. As long as taxes are this extreme not many people will ever be able to get off their wheel.
DeathFromBelow
Supreme [H]ardness
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Under the FairTax proposal something like 90% of the population would need to receive a monthly prebate check. It would be the largest entitlement program in US history.
Exactly. Like all you dummies should be like renting and like paying someone else's mortgage so you can like save for the next like 20 years to like save up the 300,000+$ to like buy a house with no mortgage.......
That's fucking retarded. Yes you are paying (a lot) of interest with a mortgage, but at least it's going towards your physical assets. If you rent you pay someone else's mortgage, plus their interest, and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I'm all for no debt, but house prices have gone up so ridiculously high, only a VERY small percentage of people would be in a position to pay cash for one. So if your 2 choices are to rent or get a mortgage, you are better off with the latter... This is assuming you are not an idiot, and get a mortgage you know you can afford.