How do you feel about Nvidia pricing on the new RTX video cards?

Discussion in 'nVidia Flavor' started by vjhawk, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Haha I thought the same. They were bragging about realistic, I am like okay everything is super shiny now and light coming through a window is a perfect rectangle with equal sides and rest of the room is dark? So much for realistic. In which world that much light coming from window does not illuminate other parts of the room? Yea it looked shiny but hardly realistic.
     
  2. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Must be nice! dropping 2500 on cards without any reviews. I wish I was like you! lol
     
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  3. JRUHg

    JRUHg Limp Gawd

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    its those damn miners!

    SLI perfomance tho, is it now handled by hardware or necessary have buggy code from developer
     
  4. spine

    spine 2[H]4U

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    Well it'll be via NVLink now, rather than SLI. Too early to say how well it'll work. Did some googling, this seems to cover NVLink versus SLI:

    Reddit: SLI versus NVLink

    So like SLI is syncing the two cards to work together in tandem, whereas NVLink 'simply' provides direct memory access between the cards. How that is leveraged to increase gaming performance I wouldn't know. It was apparently disabled on the Titan V.
     
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  5. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

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    Who is this Ray Tracing, and why did he cause the prices of cards to go up?

    Before I even THINK about dropping hundreds on a card, I'll wait for the [H] review. Only then will I sell my kidney.
     
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  6. smarenwolf

    smarenwolf [H]Lite

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    So, it seems I'll either stick to my GTX 970 or maybe get a used 1080Ti.
    But no, fuck this :D Even the 1080Ti at ~800€ is a bit much to me, but I would've been okay with it. This? No. Just no.
     
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  7. Somnambulator

    Somnambulator Gawd

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    Excited for the 2070 but def waiting for the [H] reviews. We already heard from leaks that the new gen would be priced higher- maybe even with these exact figures. $500 is a lot for the 70-series card, but every generation or so is priced higher than the previous. My 970 cost $330... maybe 350 msrp? Wasn't the 1070 $400 at launch?
    Between ahole miners (is that still a thing???) and AMD's lack of...anything... nv knew they could raise prices. Were they making money off the mining craze or just the retailers? If not now is when they cash in?

    Luckily I have a couple months before I upgrade- plenty of time to learn 2070's value.

    Ray tracing looks incredible. It's probably the last piece preventing games from appearing realistic. I hope it's as (relatively) easy and fast to implement as nvidia claimed in the keynote...maybe it will be tacked on to some new releases that hadnt planned to use it. We know Unreal Engine will support it...considering probably half the games being made use UE... good chance we'll get some nice RT surprises in the next year. Assuming it isn't a complete dud...

    Finally- I can get behind the new RTX name, but going from 1000 to 2000 instead of 1100 will forever make me angry. THAT'S NOT HOW NUMBERS WORK. 500, 600, 700, 800/sorta..., 900, 1000, 2000? NO! GO TO YOUR ROOM!
     
  8. /dev/null

    /dev/null [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Was looking at new card price announcements as an upgrade for my Linux/1060 6GB.

    Found a GTX 1080 locally in the return bin for $242 + tax...

    I went 1080.

    Linux box = 1080
    Win box = 1070 SLI.

    In no way did I ever pay more than about $275 for any of my graphics cards.
     
  9. arestavo

    arestavo [H]ard|Gawd

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    APIs haven't changed yet, so any requirements to make SLI/mGPU work remain the same AFAIK. (e.g. DX11 and earlier - Nvidia and game devs. DX12 - 100% game devs)
     
  10. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    Given the new tech on the chip, smaller node, and massive die, I think the pricing is justified at this point in the game. As we move forward I think we can expect prices to fall back to "normalcy" with future generations.
    Theoretically, NVLink would make two cards appear as one to the API, so the API would not have to change at all. Games would continue seeing only one card and treating it as such. It would take the game developers out of the picture. I am interested in seeing exactly how NVIDIA handled it on the gaming side.
     
  11. celwin

    celwin Gawd

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    AMEN BROTHER. Apple and Nvidia customers who buy with no questions asked have a cult like mentallity I've always thought that and continue to.
     
  12. Putz

    Putz I have a custom title

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    I feel like ill be keeping my 1080ti and hope AMD comes out with something in a year or so, i only play WoW so no need for me to spend a mortgage payment on a graphics card
     
  13. obs

    obs 2[H]4U

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    Really going to depend on benchmarks. If they're good, I'll hop on.

    There's literally no competition in the high end so this is what happens.
     
  14. Axils

    Axils n00b

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    I am really interested in the mentality of "if AMD comes out..." If they had a card that can match 1080ti/2080ti performance, would they sell for much less? Looking at Vega, I doubt so.
     
  15. Bowman15

    Bowman15 [H]ard|Gawd

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    LOL at people defending these prices. Love the phan boi stupidity posts as they are always good for laughs. :ROFLMAO:
     
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  16. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    I disagree. People pre-order the newest Apple stuff because they're Apple fans. They aren't necessarily the best phones, but to Apple fans they are.

    People pre-order the newest Nvidia card because it will be the undisputed fastest card. It doesn't matter if you're a fan of Nvidia or not. If you're a fan of having the fastest gaming PC right now you buy Nvidia.
     
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  17. arestavo

    arestavo [H]ard|Gawd

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    I must have missed that in the reveal, because I don't remember that at all.
     
  18. Majinhoju

    Majinhoju [H]ard|Gawd

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    If I didn't have a family to feed I'd probably go for it and get the latest and greatest. But at these prices I'll just stick with my 1080 for now.
     
  19. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    It was during the part where Jensen pulled out the DGX. I say "theoretically" because the functionality of the Tesla hardware is most likely different from GeForce. Who knows, NVLink on GeForce may simply keep traditional SLI behavior and just utilize the increased bandwidth.
     
  20. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    The 2080 Ti is going to be the fastest gaming level GPU on the market. You might dislike the cost and that's fair enough but few will dislike the performance.
     
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  21. Domingo

    Domingo [H]ard as it Gets

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    Pricing seems nuts to me, but I'm an idiot and will probably bite. Am really curious about benchmarks, though. Getting one is tough enough as-is, if the benchmarks ARE good they might be sold out for 8 months.
     
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  22. obs

    obs 2[H]4U

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    Pretty simple. Until AMD can compete, expect it to continue.
     
  23. H2R2P2

    H2R2P2 Limp Gawd

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    From everything that I saw, the ray-tracing is supposed to be easier to implement compared to what we use today. I suppose that means the responsibility is on Nvidia to make sure the drivers work as expected. Another aspect that I think it getting overlooked is the extensive push for A.I. to render things it knows are supposed to be there as compared to what really is in the frame. My guess is the A.I. components are really what are behind the big claims in ray-tracing and everything else new with the generation.
     
  24. ChrisC

    ChrisC [H]Lite

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    While I think the pricing is crazy, what is crazier to me is how similar RTX is to RX(you know from that other brand?).

    For a brand conscious company like Nvidia, I'm not sure if this is a foobar.
     
  25. arestavo

    arestavo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Oh, so he didn't expressly say that multi card functionality had changed. Yeah, something like that would (should?) have been a key reveal I would think. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be the case, as multi card gaming would (likely) become worthwhile again.
     
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  26. toddw

    toddw [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's the thing though.... you pretty much *had* to pay that if you wanted to play the game. Whereas now, you can play the game at 1080p 60 FPS for a fraction of what a new card (and monitor that can utilize it) cost.
     
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  27. spine

    spine 2[H]4U

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    If you read the blurb on the 2080 product page, I get the impression it's just an amped up SLI as Armenius suggested.

    https://www.nvidia.co.uk/geforce/graphics-cards/rtx-2080-ti/#sli
     
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  28. Fleat

    Fleat Gawd

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    I don't really see the issue with people pre-ordering. You already know this will be the single fastest card if that is what you are after and you can easily cancel the pre-order if benchmarks don't align with your performance -> dollars expectation. I would say pre-ordering is the safe bet if you think you might want one based on previous Ti card availability at launch.

    I don't personally have high hopes for ray tracing in games in the short term, but I am probably in for a 2080 Ti for machine learning either way.
     
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  29. SickBeast

    SickBeast Limp Gawd

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    I'm willing to reserve judgement until the reviews come out. My first impression is that I'm not happy, but if these cards have insane performance to match their insane pricing, I say it's fine. By that I mean the RTX 2080 Ti needs to perform about twice as fast as a GTX 1080 Ti, with the RTX features turned off. Otherwise this pricing is too expensive IMO.
     
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  30. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    This!
     
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  31. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    yea my only concern is if Nvidia is pulling a smart one here. Holding the drivers back up until september 20th. I have been searching there is absolutely no word on performance or even date for reviews. The only way they have such a tight grip is if they held back the drivers from leaking out. This just makes me think outside of ray traced games we might not see a huge performance increase. If reviews are done 2 weeks prior to release it makes sense so you can still cancel. It would be something if Nvidia allows the reviews to go up after september 20th and not hand out drivers until a week before. We might see some leaks, but by the time reviews are out preorders have likely shipped.
     
  32. KickAssCop

    KickAssCop [H]ardness Supreme

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    The card does 48 fps in Shadow of Tomb Raider w/ RT on. I say time to hit that buy button hard!
     
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  33. Starrbuck

    Starrbuck 2[H]4U

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    Clearly some have more money than sense if they are ordering any of these before seeing benchmarks. More power to ya, I guess! :playful:
     
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  34. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    I read 2080ti was doing lesst than 60fps on the demo floor at 1080p and the game is one month away and frame rate drop was very bad and you could easily tell. Falling well below 60.
     
  35. MikeRotch

    MikeRotch Limp Gawd

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    Come on guys, it's only ONE mortgage payment. Doesn't everyone here have that "skip a mortgage payment" option from their bank? :p
     
  36. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Let me find out ROFL! I have never skipped that sucker in 7 years hahahaha. But even then I am not sure if I would buy this thing before I see some numbers. lol
     
  37. vjhawk

    vjhawk Limp Gawd

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    I'm surprised in this discussion of pricing nobody has mentioned the difference in die size between Pascal and Turing.

    Turing has a die size of 775 mm^2 on the RTX 2080 Ti.
    Pascal has a die size of 471 mm^2 on the GTX 1080 Ti.

    That's a 60% increase in die size. As we all know silicon is expensive. And there can be failures. With the bigger size of the die, I think you will see more failures.

    Therefore lower useable yields. Of course there will be some 'partial failures' that can still be turned into RTX 2070's with some sections disabled. But that has been a common practice for years now.

    But this could help explain why pricing has increased so sharply, maybe. Bigger die size means fewer functional Gpu's obtained per wafer manufactured.
    No word yet on yield percentage, but maybe Nvidia doesn't want us to know their success/failure rate.

    In short maybe Nvidia is passing on their manufacturing costs directly to the consumer, bigger chip = more expensive to produce.

    My main concern with Turing, price aside, is power consumption, heat, and heat dissipation. I believe Nvidia finally went to a two fan Founder's Edition cooler design because... they had no other choice. The new GPU runs so hot with its billions of transisters and larger surface area, that this was the only reasonable way for them to keep temps cool enough to avoid thermal throttling.

    This brings to mind the release of the GTX 480 which gave an amazing performance boost but ran extremely hot and was very power hungry.
    It ran so hot that people attempted to cook their eggs on their 480's just to see if it would work!

    aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS9PLzYvMjQzMjIyL29yaWdpbmFsL2VnZ19jb29raW5nLmpwZw==.jpg

    I'm not saying this is the case for sure with Turing, but the larger die size, and the sudden change in cooling solutions makes me wonder just how HOT that spanking new chip is going to run?!
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
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  38. johnnysd

    johnnysd [H]Lite

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    Seems to me if you avoid showing benchmarks of modern games with the Ray Tracing capabilities, and spend time discussing "needing a new way to measure performance" then the benchmarks for current games are going to be really underwhelming. And I didnt really love the demos they showed, it all felt a little artificial and less realistic.
     
  39. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think the process has matured quiet a bit. I think they will be power limited but yea it will be a challenge to cool it down at high clocks I think. Thats why you see 2080ti with lower clocks than previous card I think. But yea that is a giant die size for sure.
     
  40. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex [H]ard|Gawd

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    I feel like the pricing is both unfortunate and understandable. RTX seems to be a completely new breed of GPU. They're different enough that (and I know some of this is marketing bs) Nvidia felt the need to create a new performance metric for them. I see that, and I see the time gap between the last gen and today, and I think: "There was a LOT of R&D cost in this."

    That said... it's unfortunate because I personally will never pay that much for a graphics card. Especially when I know that a lot of the card's tech isn't and won't be utilized by developers for a long time. Especially when my 1080ti drives my 165hz 1440p monitor just fine.

    So... hard pass from me, and it's honestly the price that does it. I don't mind being an early adopter, but not at that premium. Looks like my CPU will be getting the love on this next upgrade cycle.
     
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