How Do You Define 'Cheating' In A Video Game?

[Furious_Styles]

Play Hard Reset for PC (the first one) on the hardest difficulty setting and you'll soon switch mid-game to just get past a certain checkpoint. The same goes for COD 2 (I stuck it out in this game be it took a few days more to finish).

I actually just bought it and beat it on hard. I should do a run through on insane and see if it's really much harder. But this the extended edition not the redux. Shadow warrior remake certainly had some extremely difficult parts on the hardest diff.

 

[WorldExclusive]

I actually just bought it and beat it on hard. I should do a run through on insane and see if it's really much harder. But this the extended edition not the redux. Shadow warrior remake certainly had some extremely difficult parts on the hardest diff.

There's a section in the parking deck/garage, where you have to clear it out and open the door to escape. Play that on Insane. Good luck.

This is it:

 

[Furious_Styles]

There's a section in the parking deck/garage, where you have to clear it out and open the door to escape. Play that on Insane. Good luck.

This is it:

I'll try it. It was no problem on hard.

 

[lcpiper]

If it gives you an unfair advantage in a multiplayer environment it is cheating.

If it gives you an unfair advantage in a single player environment..no one cares and why bother playing at that point?

Most games I didn't cheat at back in the day but I completely ruined Diablo for myself by cheating. I would save a backup of my current character and use the cheat to examine other player's equipment and if they had something I wanted, I would capture a copy of their character and "steal" whatever they had that I wanted. It didn't take long and I had it all, every good unique in the game. Then I discovered I no longer was motivated to go find anything cause I had it all and now I had no real reason to play. It seems I was a very loot driven player.

Now I avoided this mistake with Diablo II and as such I played thousands of hours of that game and if Blizzard had updated the game to run properly with a decent resolutions, I'd probably still be playing it today. I just never got tired of creating new builds and farming for loot.

You might think Diablo III would have cured this problem but they fucked that game up from the very start and I was so completely disappointed that I still won't play it even though my kid tries to convince me it's all better now, I know it isn't, not for what I enjoyed and loved out of D2.

So I learned my lesson about cheating even in single player games, you have to be careful that you don't ruin the game for yourself.

 

[M76]

If I feel the need to cheat in game then that game is badly designed.

And lowering the difficulty is not cheating, it's chickening.

 

[Activate: AMD]

I'm a pretty competitive player in most online shooters I've ever played. Can't claim to be even scratching the ass of a "pro" player, but I have usually been at or near the top in every match of BF or CoD, had decent ranks in CS/CSGO. I just never, ever understood the motivation for cheating in a MP game. When you're so blatant that its like killing bots, why don't you just kill bots in SP games. Why advance up ladders or get top scores when you know its all totally fake? Is there no part of you that just wants to know how good *you* really are? To try and get better? I mean, I had friends who were far better than me at CSGO and I felt like I would let them down in tough matches, but it was on me to become a better player. I just don't understand the rationale for cheating in multiplayer other than trolls who want to mine salt, which is just pathetic.

Single player though, I "cheat" like crazy. Trainers for unlimited money/resources, god mode, cheat codes... I do what I want. Its all about the experience I want to have within the game I'm playing. I find that many game mechanics get in the way of the story or my enjoyment of the game, like the people above raising inventory limits in RPGs to avoid pointless back and forth travel to empty bags, or risking destroying some weapon thats actually really good but I just didn't figure out how to build my skills right. I'll give myself unlimited money and quick build in Total War games because I enjoy spending a weekend building a massive army and rampaging across the map like a god. Whatever floats your boat man.. just do it! BUT ONLY IN SINGLE PLAYER you cheating scum

 

[lcpiper]

Oh come on. Everyone knows what cheating is: Getting an advantage by not following the rules, gaining access to something by having someone else do it for you or by using someone else's knowledge or skill instead of your own. It's why most people play video games instead of, say, chess: They aren't able to think for themselves, they'd rather steal to get ahead. The most common reason I hear from people who cheat? 'It's too hard'.

People cheat because they're lazy. They want to win, but they're not willing to do the work necessary to achieve what they want.

Unfortunately, our society has always gone overboard with this concept in our everyday lives, by forcing people to do meaningless activities in order to qualify for the rewards. It's the puritan ethic gone nuts. So kids now just assume that all working towards goals is meaningless, because the leaders of our society demonstrate that the ends always justifies the means. Look at our 'pillars of the communities': Gates (theft, cheating, market manipulation), Trump (lie about everything, use the bankruptcy courts to rip off creditors), Business tycoons like those in Enron, Adelphia, and all the others who rob from their employees and the public. Accounting firms like Arthur Anderson who enable corporations to doctor their books. They all teach us that it's normal to be dishonest.

Hence, all the cheating. So who really gives a crap? Why play the game at all if you're going to cheat? Just turn off the scoring, because no one's doing the counting anyway, and everyone knows that the top scorers are cheats. Games today are a microcosm of life; it's all about who can be the biggest crook.

Yess, and nooo.

Maybe with a little more qualifying on these statements I would agree more.

My first thought is that although you are correct applying this to many people, it doesn't qualify for nearly as many as you make it sound. I know it's not everyone because I'm not in that number. Perhaps I'm just too stupid and didn't get the memo, whatever.. But I have seen examples in the real world and it's not just about criminal behavior.

You attribute part of this to "forcing people to do meaningless activities in order to qualify for the rewards. It's the puritan ethic gone nuts."

If we are talking real world then perhaps an example would help me see your view.

If you are talking games, that's because concepts such as time sinks, and money sinks, and grinding, etc, were all mechanics commonly adopted by game developers which force the player to devote large amounts of time to the game, it extends the player time required to achieve successes so that you keep the players playing longer, their subscriptions being billed longer. It's money driven and has no roots in Puritan ideals. Cheating designed to circumvent these mechanics is huge, even more so is the rise of the gold farmers, the leveling services, etc. Getting someone else to do your "sink" work or buying your way through it so that you can relax and enjoy the better parts of the game.

New games have come out and tried to eliminate these mechanics in favor of real content and engaging game-play and many are successful, but it's not easy. You actually have to create a good product and that takes time and involves risk. Blizzard tried to eliminate gold farmers and such with their "Real Market" where players could actually sell game items for real money, cut out those pesky Chinese Gold Farmers and such. Wow did that fail. WarHammer Online tried a system where players automatically received decent gear when they leveled, and there was more to gain by playing the game but if you make it too easy people loose interest.

So please elaborate, I'm trying to see where the dead people with funny hats, from 200 years ago, are still having an impact on our world.

 

[nightfly]

You attribute part of this to "forcing people to do meaningless activities in order to qualify for the rewards. It's the puritan ethic gone nuts."
If we are talking real world then perhaps an example would help me see your view.

The easiest to observe, is the requirement of so many companies which make a 4 year college degree necessary when the actual knowledge and work involves none of what is learned during those 4 years; it's based on an assumption that 4 more years of learning useless information automatically makes you a better, smarter employee. Which I can tell you from experience, is incorrect. It's done because the company can't be bothered actually training someone for the job they will do, or even testing applicants.

If you are talking games,

Few buy into games blindly; they know what the game is all about. That said, you know about

time sinks, and money sinks, and grinding, etc, were all mechanics commonly adopted by game developers which force the player to devote large amounts of time to the game

before starting the game. It's kind of like playing monopoly, but eliminating the parts you don't like. Which people do, all the time. But it's no longer playing the game, by how the game was set up by the designers for everyone; it's breaking the rules, i.e., cheating, because they think the game is too hard on them or they're just too lazy to do the work.

Or maybe this would be a better example: Some middle aged adults, feeling that baseball is too hard; so, rather than play softball or wiffle ball, they go play on the little league diamond and pitch underhand, because the adult game requires too much running and practicing hitting, and they don't want to work that hard, but they still want to tell everyone that they play baseball on Saturdays. Computer gaming cheats are the very same; they want to brag of their scores but don't actually want to do the work involved to get those scores.

It's changing the game from what it was intended to be, and from the rules that everyone else is expected to follow.

Cheating.

 

[socK]

LOL.....you want to see some real cheating go play a few rounds of Battlefield 1 it's absolutely full of people running game hacks.

I didn't see a single one when I played. Saw maybe a couple within hundreds of hours of BF3 and BF4.

 

[Activate: AMD]

The easiest to observe, is the requirement of so many companies which make a 4 year college degree necessary when the actual knowledge and work involves none of what it learned during those 4 years; it's based on an assumption that 4 more years of learning useless information automatically makes you a better, smarter employee. Which I can tell you from experience, is incorrect.




Few buy into games blindly; they know what the game is all about. That said, you know about

before starting the game. It's kind of like playing monopoly, but eliminating the parts you don't like. Which people do, all the time. But it's no longer playing the game, by how the game was set up by the designers for everyone; it's breaking the rules, i.e., cheating, because they think the game is too hard on them or they're just too lazy to do the work.

Or maybe this would be a better example: Some middle aged adults, feeling that baseball is too hard; so, rather than play softball or wiffle ball, they go play on the little league diamond and pitch underhand, because the adult game requires too much running and practicing hitting, and they don't want to work that hard, but they still want to tell everyone that they play baseball on Saturdays. Computer gaming cheats are the very same; they want to brag of their scores but don't actually want to do the work involved to get those scores.

It's changing the game from what it was intended to be, and from the rules that everyone else is expected to follow.

Cheating.

Lol get over yourself. Having fun doesn't always have to answer to rules, and the enjoyment value of art is not always dependent on the intent of the artist (in this case, game dev). If they don't like it I don't care, and if you don't like it.... well I'm going to write a forum post telling you to get off your high horse.

Also, your softball analogy is hysterically bad considering that softball has rules and people abide by them while playing. The fact that it is related in any way to baseball is irrelevant.

 

[nvgrim]

I didn't see a single one when I played. Saw maybe a couple within hundreds of hours of BF3 and BF4.

Yeah i have only seen a few cheaters in that game and im always close to the top 3 in the leaderboards. I mean somtimes i get called a cheater, but thats because the other players suck and and come to terms with it.

 

[Darunion]

The easiest to observe, is the requirement of so many companies which make a 4 year college degree necessary when the actual knowledge and work involves none of what is learned during those 4 years; it's based on an assumption that 4 more years of learning useless information automatically makes you a better, smarter employee. Which I can tell you from experience, is incorrect. It's done because the company can't be bothered actually training someone for the job they will do, or even testing applicants.




Few buy into games blindly; they know what the game is all about. That said, you know about

before starting the game. It's kind of like playing monopoly, but eliminating the parts you don't like. Which people do, all the time. But it's no longer playing the game, by how the game was set up by the designers for everyone; it's breaking the rules, i.e., cheating, because they think the game is too hard on them or they're just too lazy to do the work.

Or maybe this would be a better example: Some middle aged adults, feeling that baseball is too hard; so, rather than play softball or wiffle ball, they go play on the little league diamond and pitch underhand, because the adult game requires too much running and practicing hitting, and they don't want to work that hard, but they still want to tell everyone that they play baseball on Saturdays. Computer gaming cheats are the very same; they want to brag of their scores but don't actually want to do the work involved to get those scores.

It's changing the game from what it was intended to be, and from the rules that everyone else is expected to follow.

Cheating.

The college requirement can be disputed but as I interview people, I look at it as a level of "can this person be taught things" or are they just lazy and want a high pay job. The degree doesn't automatically mean that, but it helps. Also it helps to understand the theory behind the application.

As far as you missing the mark with your points, any game outside of video games pretty much is "as long as those playing all agree, play how you want". And as stated, so what if I do not do exactly what the dev wanted me to do. Should I pick up the strategy guides so I can make sure I do everything that was intended to do? Or should I enjoy my consumer product how I want as long as it doesn't affect anyone else?

 

[Ebernanut]

Cheating in a multiplayer game is pathetic but so is being bothered by how others choose to play a single player game. The most hilarious thing is when people get bent out of shape about any use of mods, I've even seen people claim that texture mods or mods that increase difficulty are cheats which makes absolutely no sense.

I also don't buy the idea that devs are infallible. Before I change something in a SP game the only question I have is whether it will make the game more or less enjoyable for me regardless of if it's making the game easier, harder, or a little bit of both. I don't think I would enjoy Bethesda games nearly as much without mods to change the things I don't like and console commands to get around bugs.

 

[lcpiper]

The easiest to observe, is the requirement of so many companies which make a 4 year college degree necessary when the actual knowledge and work involves none of what is learned during those 4 years; it's based on an assumption that 4 more years of learning useless information automatically makes you a better, smarter employee. Which I can tell you from experience, is incorrect. It's done because the company can't be bothered actually training someone for the job they will do, or even testing applicants.




Few buy into games blindly; they know what the game is all about. That said, you know about

before starting the game. It's kind of like playing monopoly, but eliminating the parts you don't like. Which people do, all the time. But it's no longer playing the game, by how the game was set up by the designers for everyone; it's breaking the rules, i.e., cheating, because they think the game is too hard on them or they're just too lazy to do the work.

Or maybe this would be a better example: Some middle aged adults, feeling that baseball is too hard; so, rather than play softball or wiffle ball, they go play on the little league diamond and pitch underhand, because the adult game requires too much running and practicing hitting, and they don't want to work that hard, but they still want to tell everyone that they play baseball on Saturdays. Computer gaming cheats are the very same; they want to brag of their scores but don't actually want to do the work involved to get those scores.

It's changing the game from what it was intended to be, and from the rules that everyone else is expected to follow.

Cheating.

As to the first part, I'd say "You have this pegged as institutional laziness, but how does that become puritanical in origin?"

And as to the gaming, "For the most part I agree, except for that first MMORPG, mine for instance was Lineage II and it had every sink available including the one from the kitchen".

 

[lcpiper]

Cheating in a multiplayer game is pathetic but so is being bothered by how others choose to play a single player game. The most hilarious thing is when people get bent out of shape about any use of mods, I've even seen people claim that texture mods or mods that increase difficulty are cheats which makes absolutely no sense.

I also don't buy the idea that devs are infallible. Before I change something in a SP game the only question I have is whether it will make the game more or less enjoyable for me regardless of if it's making the game easier, harder, or a little bit of both. I don't think I would enjoy Bethesda games nearly as much without mods to change the things I don't like and console commands to get around bugs.

Well, I'll be happy to admit I play Fallout4 with the Brutality mod installed, it greatly increases weapon damage all the way around. That mostly does two things, eliminates the bullet sponge game play, and it turns most engagements into who spots and shoots the other first. It only takes a stupid move and you are going back to your last save point, and if you have survival running, that could be your last bed slept in. I like survival and I like Brutality, and that's all there is to it.

 

[DocSavage]

The most hilarious thing is when people get bent out of shape about any use of mods, I've even seen people claim that texture mods or mods that increase difficulty are cheats which makes absolutely no sense.

There have been texture mods for World of Tanks that painted tanks different colors according to weak spots. Anyone running such textures would have a huge advantage versus anyone else. Coloring also can be the difference between spotting an opponent hiding in the woods and thinking you're all by yourself.

 

[lcpiper]

There have been texture mods for World of Tanks that painted tanks different colors according to weak spots. Anyone running such textures would have a huge advantage versus anyone else. Coloring also can be the difference between spotting an opponent hiding in the woods and thinking you're all by yourself.

I'm thinking the big red name with the tank class symbol and the health bar over the top doesn't do much for the camouflage anyway. The game has always been too arcadish for real stealth and camouflage to play a part. Wargaming's solution is to just make your tank invisible until it's "spotted".

Although they have started banning accounts for some mods, they really haven't been very clear about what they find unfair and what they don't. For instance, I use the OMC Mod Pack and it has a mod option to display the last known locations of spotted enemy vehicles. It is very useful and it's my understanding that they don't want us using that one, so I turned it off. But they haven't said anything about what you mentioned, "Hit Skins", that I know of, and I do use them. I don't use the big garish colored ones you are talking about, I use the "Korean" ones, they are a subdued light grey or whitish color and don't stand out over much a distance but I would say within 300 meters they can be useful. But most of their use is in training you to remember where the weak spots are. You get used to seeing Russian Medium Tanks with ammo rack and engine hit points underneath the fenders on the side of the hull and it trains you to shoot there. There are like 300 different tank models in the game and most have obvious weak points, the kind all tanks have, like the rear of the hull has an engine in it, surprise surprise. Shoot the driver's vision block to kill the driver, that one is tough to figure out.

But you do have to wonder about developers that say it's illegal to have a mod that shows you the last known location of an enemy, but sounds a siren and flashes a warning sign whenever an enemy spots you? They couldn't ass a crew perk for the radio operator called "Map Specialist" but somehow it's cool that the Commanders can have one that amounts to "Spidey Sense"

You get that tingling feeling on the back of your neck you know.

 

[Ebernanut]

Well, I'll be happy to admit I play Fallout4 with the Brutality mod installed, it greatly increases weapon damage all the way around. That mostly does two things, eliminates the bullet sponge game play, and it turns most engagements into who spots and shoots the other first. It only takes a stupid move and you are going back to your last save point, and if you have survival running, that could be your last bed slept in. I like survival and I like Brutality, and that's all there is to it.

You dirty cheater! How dare you make it easier to kill enemies, who cares if it also makes it easier to be killed.
/s

That's actually the very mod I was thinking of when I mentioned mods that make a game easier and harder at the same time.

There have been texture mods for World of Tanks that painted tanks different colors according to weak spots. Anyone running such textures would have a huge advantage versus anyone else. Coloring also can be the difference between spotting an opponent hiding in the woods and thinking you're all by yourself.

That's certainly an exception to my comment about texture mods but I was thinking more about high res texture packs, IME those usually decrease contrast, increase clutter, and certainly aren't used to highlight weak points. I was reading through some threads discussing various texture packs for fallout 4 recently and had to wade through a ton of comments ranting about how all modders are just filthy cheaters, I can't even begin to wrap my head around that thought process.