How do we give gamers first crack at new cards?

Twinsen

Weaksauce
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May 29, 2008
Messages
119
Honestly, nVidia is going to have to block out mining on the driver level for their future gaming cards. It's the only way for them to solve this problem. Then sell a separate lineup of mining cards for higher prices with maybe a one year warranty. I doubt nVidia will do this though. They are profiting nicely from the current situation.
This would increase demand+price for "non-blocked" GPUs. Cycle continues. There's no way to stop it unfortunately.
 

bobzdar

[H]ard|Gawd
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Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,947
No company is going to go through the all that bs. They don't care. Their cards are selling and that is all they care about. You think these companies can't figure out how to stop it and co

Not happening. They are making a killing atm. Why cut themselves off at the knees? So what if they piss gamers off? It is not like they have anywhere else to go for GPUs. AMD is in the same boat making a killing. I have a hard time seeing Nvidia/AMD putting out money and time to do a collaboration with value to make less money. I also expect future AMD/Nvidia card to go up in base MSRP too.

Yes, thank you captain obvious, if the companies don't care then nothing will be done to stop miners from getting all of them, but that goes against the whole purpose of the thread and that we take the companies at face value that they do care (at least enough to make press releases and instructing merchants to sell to gamers).

So assuming they do care, what can be done? The lowest effort (to me) would seem to be Nvidia checking GeForce experience, as they already have access to the data. To expand and for AMD, they can work with the 3 or 4 top software stores, which all track hours played. If you want a card, give them your email associated with the account so they can check how many games you have and how many hours you've played, and make the ordering process go through that email. The more games you have and the more hours you play, the higher up the queue you go for a card.
 

Tweak155

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Messages
684
Not happening. They are making a killing atm. Why cut themselves off at the knees? So what if they piss gamers off? It is not like they have anywhere else to go for GPUs. AMD is in the same boat making a killing. I have a hard time seeing Nvidia/AMD putting out money and time to do a collaboration with value to make less money. I also expect future AMD/Nvidia card to go up in base MSRP too.

Because when mining no longer needs GPUs, NVidia & AMD will need gamers to buy their stuff. Just because there are no other avenues to obtain a GPU does not mean a gamer will buy one, it could mean they find a new hobby. That's lost future sales and quite possibly impacts your longevity as a company that at least partially relies on those enthusiasts.
 

Comixbooks

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Lets see how fast they sell out in April :blackalien::blackalien::blackalien: I just wonder what the retail price will be you just know scalpers will be out in full force. I'm waiting around for a AIO this time none of the FE stuff that sounds like a whirlwind.
 

vegeta535

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Because when mining no longer needs GPUs, NVidia & AMD will need gamers to buy their stuff. Just because there are no other avenues to obtain a GPU does not mean a gamer will buy one, it could mean they find a new hobby. That's lost future sales and quite possibly impacts your longevity as a company that at least partially relies on those enthusiasts.
I doubt the lost future sale will be anything of worth comapred to the bank they making atm.
 

jkmetal

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Mar 28, 2007
Messages
290
I don't believe we're at the point yet where PC gamers are abandoning the hobby in droves due to the inability to purchase new cards to keep their rigs running. If you don't need the latest and greatest than a GTX 970 still does the job at 1080p. If this goes on another couple of years/into the next console cycle then I could see EA or Steam trying to secure some kind of "Gamer GPU" deal. May as well toss memory into the deal too.

Warning, dirty copy and paste featured below

hws_nvidia.gif
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
14.05%

-1.36%

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti
13.05%
-0.39%

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960
11.89%
-1.60%

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
11.47%
-0.35%

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950
5.45%
-0.43%

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050
4.67%
+0.12%

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750
1.86%
+0.11%

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
1.82%
+0.11%

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
1.78%
+0.18%

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760
1.38%
-0.04%

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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080
1.04%
+0.17%

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hws_nvidia.gif
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660

The "big guns" account for maybe 3% of steam users GPUs. The 1080 has just passed the 660, a crazy 13% are still on 750ti's. The only red flag I see is the -1.3% drop in 1060 ownership and that could be anything from owners moving up, selling their cards and going to their backup and yes, those leaving the hobby.

So far PC gaming has held up but I could see an expansion of the micro center program for "deals" (read, actual MSRP price) for those dedicated to building a system not just turning electrons into cold hard cash.
 

staknhalo

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Track games and time played via GeForce Experience and w/e AMD equivalent or something. That's the only way you can 'prove' you're a gamer to them (Steam can be tricked to think you're playing a game, it's how I farm cards - unaware of a way to do that for Geforce Experience). This then hurts actual casual gamers though.
 
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Tweak155

Gawd
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Jul 28, 2011
Messages
684
I don't believe we're at the point yet where PC gamers are abandoning the hobby in droves due to the inability to purchase new cards to keep their rigs running. If you don't need the latest and greatest than a GTX 970 still does the job at 1080p. If this goes on another couple of years/into the next console cycle then I could see EA or Steam trying to secure some kind of "Gamer GPU" deal. May as well toss memory into the deal too.

Yeah it definitely will take some time, but I've been looking to upgrade for a while now and will lose my patience at some point. I'll be more OK with paying over MSRP when new card lands, but not doing it for 1-2yr old stuff. Waiting to see where the new pricing lands.
 

Lunas

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 22, 2001
Messages
10,005
As someone who is both a gamer and a miner i have this to say. It is supply and demand the biggest issue is nvidia and amd are very scared of making a supply surplus so they have not ramped supply as much as they probably should. The biggest issue is they are very right to hesitate to fill the supply shortages. Because we are already seeing the miners dumping used cards for prices still over msrp. If the prices drop too fast and cause a mass sell off of mining hardware or if an asic for say eth or monero you will see a mass sell off of gpu.

Imagine the cards the miners have been hoarding suddenly went on ebay en masse. And for the record I could not get my hands on multiple gpu so i only have 1x 1070 and 1x r9 280x. Amd and Nvidia are both afraid that if they increase production to meet demand that there will be a sudden complete disappearance of demand and they will be left with 10 million available cards with only 2 million gamers who want to buy 1 or 2 of them leaving 6-8 million cards to gather dust with nobody who wants them.

Overall the initiative to convince them to sell to only gamers is more or less telling them to stop making money. Yes they want to keep the gamers happy and buying cards every so often but miners are buying 6-12 cards at a time and coming back for more gamers buy 1 maybe 2 a generation...
 

KickAssCop

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Mar 19, 2003
Messages
7,012
Mining will have a way of slowing down through difficulty increase. I was making 7 bucks a day per 1080 Ti. Now I am making 2. Only a moron would pay a grand to make back 2 bucks a day.

As for people who want something can get it. If you are too busy doing something else than buying a card then that is your priority at the time. I have never had to wait for more than a couple of days to get cards on MSRP or close enough.
 

AltTabbins

Fully [H]
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Jul 29, 2005
Messages
20,276
Only a moron would pay a grand to make back 2 bucks a day.

What about the droves of "morons" who mine 2 dollars worth of coin today thinking that it will be worth 100 dollars tomorrow? That's the problem right now. People still have Bitcoin's December price in their heads. They think it will go back and are willing to take a hit now to get rich later.
 

cyklondx

Limp Gawd
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Mar 19, 2018
Messages
419
Its very simple, there are 2 ways to go about it.


1) Provide enough food for everyone's need.
Ensure there are enough gpu's so that prices won't rise.

2) Make different card series designed for miners
Make them little more expensive, but also ensure they perform a lot better in mining than your typical consumer cards. At this moment its like 1 year for full return of gpu money crunching the numbers. Make it half of that, and you killed off the problem...
Or whole boards designed just for mining; it broke miners needs for gpu's last time - this time take the initiative.
 

{NG}Fidel

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Jan 17, 2005
Messages
6,286
Its very simple, there are 2 ways to go about it.


1) Provide enough food for everyone's need.
Ensure there are enough gpu's so that prices won't rise.

2) Make different card series designed for miners
Make them little more expensive, but also ensure they perform a lot better in mining than your typical consumer cards. At this moment its like 1 year for full return of gpu money crunching the numbers. Make it half of that, and you killed off the problem...
Or whole boards designed just for mining; it broke miners needs for gpu's last time - this time take the initiative.
A mining only Uarc maybe? Seems expensive and improbable. Still its an idea, that and just fucking beef up fab cap
 

Lunas

[H]F Junkie
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Jul 22, 2001
Messages
10,005
you either wait for this mining craze to crash or you pony up simple as that.
problem is unless the coin gets outright banned (which will not ever happen not in the US at least) the only thing that can happen is gpus become less profitable to use for mining but the cycle of one coin replaces another and all are based off Bitcoins value
 

cyklondx

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
419
A mining only Uarc maybe? Seems expensive and improbable. Still its an idea, that and just fucking beef up fab cap
Nah, its not that expensive really. If it was, AMD wouldn't be making all those custom chips in first place. It doesn't have to even use hbm. It could use the cheapest memory ever, if it even needs it.
AMD offers fab designing/producing chips for other companies to accomplish 'something'. Make that something a crypto.
 
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tangoseal

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Messages
9,370
I personally cant wait until crypto crashes and the market gets flooded with cheap used GPUs and new GPU sales plummet.

And to answer your question, nope, nothing you can do it's the new norm.

I don't wish that at all. Just because YOU want one little gpu for cheap your willing to devastate markets and some people's life investment risk strategies??

Why not just call for dropping nuclear weapons to get rid of mosquitos. Yes it's that extreme what your wanting .
 

KickAssCop

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Messages
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That does not really compute, because some people can't drop what they are doing to order a card when an alert comes.. Your basically saying people that work hard instead of goofing off don't deserve a card.
Let's keep crying about it rather than adapting to the new reality. :rolleyes:
 

Hakaba

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Messages
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Don’t take this the wrong way.

Mining will have a way of slowing down through difficulty increase. I was making 7 bucks a day per 1080 Ti. Now I am making 2. Only a moron would pay a grand to make back 2 bucks a day.

But you might be doing something wrong.

Or I could be completely wrong based of where you live. But I am still making 5-10 with a 6x 1070s.
 
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KickAssCop

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Mar 19, 2003
Messages
7,012
You may have misread me. A 1080 Ti these days makes anywhere from 2-3 bucks a day. I have 9 of them so I make about 22-24 a day right now. Used to be about 33-36.
 

Lunas

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Jul 22, 2001
Messages
10,005
You may have misread me. A 1080 Ti these days makes anywhere from 2-3 bucks a day. I have 9 of them so I make about 22-24 a day right now. Used to be about 33-36.
Btc is bouncing between 8 and 9k when you were making 7 per day per card btc was 12k-19k
 

matt167

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Messages
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Let's keep crying about it rather than adapting to the new reality. :rolleyes:

Not crying about it, just stating it.. I don't have a desk job anywhere near a computer, I'm an automotive service technician, so if I get a text alert I can't drop what I'm doing to order something. I've even tried/ had the text alerts and they just come at the most inopportune times greasy under a car.
This isn't even saying I personally need a card, because I have a GTX 1060 6gb which is more than fine. I do want a better card, I'll just have to pay up for it. I plan on doing that next month since I had a lot going on this month. I'll buy what I can and not cry later because it's going to be overkill anyway.. I could very easily break even on my GTX 1060 anyway by selling it.
 
D

Deleted member 126051

Guest
The solution is self-evident.

Find all miners everywhere.

Beat them half to death and drag them out into the street.

Stake them out for the vultures and castrate them (if they're castratable).

Steal all their GPUs and redistribute them to the gaming proletariat.

Unless you're willing to go to these lengths, there's fuck-all that can realistically be done about the crypto consumption problem.
 

DrLobotomy

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Messages
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Not sure if someone mentioned it but what about like games and you can pre-order the video card you want.

Not that I like that idea... Just sayin as an alternative for the time being.
 

Krenum

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Messages
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No it wont. They were out of stock as soon as I got the email today.


I think I need to step away from looking for a bit. Its really starting to piss me off. I know, first world problems.
 
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cageymaru

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Apr 10, 2003
Messages
21,067
No it wont. They were out of stock as soon as I got the email today.


I think I need to step away from looking for a bit. Its really starting to piss me off. I know, first world problems.

That post said March 23rd so that's tomorrow. ;)
 

KickAssCop

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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Btc is bouncing between 8 and 9k when you were making 7 per day per card btc was 12k-19k
That’s not the only reason. My daily earn rate was 0.0032-0.0036 BTC per day. Now it is 0.0019-0.0021 due to rising difficulty.
 

sanders4617

Weaksauce
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Jul 16, 2009
Messages
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I don't believe we're at the point yet where PC gamers are abandoning the hobby in droves due to the inability to purchase new cards to keep their rigs running. If you don't need the latest and greatest than a GTX 970 still does the job at 1080p. If this goes on another couple of years/into the next console cycle then I could see EA or Steam trying to secure some kind of "Gamer GPU" deal. May as well toss memory into the deal too.

Warning, dirty copy and paste featured below

View attachment 60182 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
14.05%

-1.36%

trans.gif

View attachment 60183 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti
13.05%
-0.39%

trans.gif

View attachment 60184 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960
11.89%
-1.60%

trans.gif

View attachment 60185 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
11.47%
-0.35%

trans.gif

View attachment 60186 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950
5.45%
-0.43%

trans.gif

View attachment 60187 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050
4.67%
+0.12%

trans.gif

View attachment 60188 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750
1.86%
+0.11%

trans.gif

View attachment 60189 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
1.82%
+0.11%

trans.gif

View attachment 60190 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
1.78%
+0.18%

trans.gif

View attachment 60191 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760
1.38%
-0.04%

trans.gif

View attachment 60192 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080
1.04%
+0.17%

trans.gif

View attachment 60193 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660

The "big guns" account for maybe 3% of steam users GPUs. The 1080 has just passed the 660, a crazy 13% are still on 750ti's. The only red flag I see is the -1.3% drop in 1060 ownership and that could be anything from owners moving up, selling their cards and going to their backup and yes, those leaving the hobby.

So far PC gaming has held up but I could see an expansion of the micro center program for "deals" (read, actual MSRP price) for those dedicated to building a system not just turning electrons into cold hard cash.

What is the micro center program?
 

demondrops

Limp Gawd
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Jul 7, 2016
Messages
422
i just preorder likely FE card 2080ti in launch day, i will wait and be early should be easy. atleast it was before! but if u sold cars will u sell to ppl who use it to go to work every day or for some clown that will have the car running in garage all day and sit on couch do nothing haha. i dont think ppl who want a new card will strugle getting one, pricewise is another discussion. atleast here in norway, and the miningtards they live here also.
 

buttons

2[H]4U
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Oct 12, 2011
Messages
2,114
I understand people can be mildly frustrated by the GPU shortage and prices, but wanting to kill people because their hobby involves building computers and making a return on investment literally blows my mind. I am down to just 3 1080ti and two rx 560s. The funny part is, i am gaming on the RX 560 2gb and i cannot believe how well they do. There is literally tens of thousands of games on steam they can play fluently on max settings.
 

demondrops

Limp Gawd
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Jul 7, 2016
Messages
422
no ram miners and that price is double from 2 years back too lol :p could sell my 2 year old ram for profit probs haha.
 

gan7114

Limp Gawd
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Dec 14, 2012
Messages
275
You may have misread me. A 1080 Ti these days makes anywhere from 2-3 bucks a day. I have 9 of them so I make about 22-24 a day right now. Used to be about 33-36.

Within the next year or so, it won't matter how much the typical miner is making per day, because power companies (at least in the US) are already beginning to specifically target miners due to their outrageous power consumption. The cost of electricity is typically shared across local communities, so if miners think their bill is low, it's because of this. Once they start getting hit hard in the wallet, we'll see GPU demand correct itself.

There's always a balance.
 
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Messages
6
Nvidia, AMD, and Intel need to make asics. These guys have all the resources and more to solve both the demand for gamers and miners. Make expansion card asics... Unless I'm simple and am missing something?
 

Ocellaris

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Jan 1, 2008
Messages
19,074
Nvidia, AMD, and Intel need to make asics. These guys have all the resources and more to solve both the demand for gamers and miners. Make expansion card asics... Unless I'm simple and am missing something?

ASICs rapidly devalue the currency they are targeted for, are expensive to manufacture, and aren’t really consumer friendly (you need to buy them with crypto and no returns). Plus then y’all would complain they are making ASICS instead of GPUs.
 
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