HOT ! Various 1TB NVMe with coveted E12 Controller $135 aprox retail

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SixFootDuo

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Is there any word on a 2 TB version other than the sort of vagueish rumors earlier in this thread?
You don't have to wait, there is a 1.9TB E12 drive on the market now for around $350 or maybe less by now. Do a search.

I'm sure we are about to see in the coming weeks / months possibly larger E12 drives. There are massive profits on these NVMe drives as they use literally $35 dollars in parts and factored into that cost is labor, lights, replacement, etc. I saw the cost of these chips somewhere, they aren't much. General rule of thumb for wholesale, retail pricing is that if they have a $99 shelf price, then they've paid $49 or less wholesale per unit. The factories making these drives profit from quantity. While $15 or $20 profit per drive may not sound like much for the factory, multiply that by 250,000 drives a month. All of a sudden you're talking big numbers.

Where do I get my numbers from? I don't. They are just random possible monthly production numbers. But I am fairly certain I'm in the "ballpark" of what kinda profits the manufactures make per unit. I've read these numbers can be anywhere from 8$ to as high as $20 or $25 per unit.

The next step in the evolution of all of this is a larger E12 drive. It's not if one is coming, but when.

It will probably happen slower than you want but faster than you think.
 
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tangoseal

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OK so Phison E16 drives are about to drop like a big fast nuke bomb soon. I think Gigabyte is dropping theirs on the market when Ryzen 2 releases on the 7th. So that means PCIe 4.0 drives pushing 5GB/s are about to be available.

This also means that hopefully Inland Professional gets a 2tb phison e16 based drive soon enough as well. But like all shit youll have to pay the "new tech" tax for the first few months.
 

coynatha

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OK so Phison E16 drives are about to drop like a big fast nuke bomb soon. I think Gigabyte is dropping theirs on the market when Ryzen 2 releases on the 7th. So that means PCIe 4.0 drives pushing 5GB/s are about to be available.

This also means that hopefully Inland Professional gets a 2tb phison e16 based drive soon enough as well. But like all shit youll have to pay the "new tech" tax for the first few months.
25 cents/GB
 
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doublejack

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You don't have to wait, there is a 1.9TB E12 drive on the market now for around $350 or maybe less by now. Do a search.
That's too much money. It is not price competitive with freshly pulled datacenter grade storage options that are showing up on ebay and other sites. For example, I have found several Intel P3600 / P3605 drives in the $200-230 range. They are 1.6TB and have insane durability, almost 9 petabytes written. For a 1.9TB E12 drive to compete with that, it would have to priced at $175 or less in my view.

For people who want something bigger, I am also seeing 3.84TB Samsung drives in the $400 range. They are 2.5" U.2 drives, though, so the majority of motherboards won't take one natively. You can buy either M.2 to U.2 adapters or a U.2 adapter that plugs into a PCIE 4x slot.
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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The Sabrent Rocket 2 TB NVMe, Phison E12 based, is now only $270 from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Rocket-Internal-Performance-SB-ROCKET-2TB/dp/B07MTQTNVR/
That is nice. Not quite as good of a deal, but still pretty damned nice.

Added bonus, can be configured in both 512 byte and 4k sector sizes.

Odd that the 2TB version has slower writes than the 1TB version though. Not a big difference though.

1TB is 3400 read, 3000 write
2TB is 3400 read, 2750 write

Usually the larger the drive, the more parallelism, and thus the greater performance, so this is a little unusual. Maybe heat limited due to the extra chips?
 
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Maxx

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Odd that the 2TB version has slower writes than the 1TB version though. Not a big difference though.

Usually the larger the drive, the more parallelism, and thus the greater performance, so this is a little unusual. Maybe heat limited due to the extra chips?
The controller, a Phison E12, is eight-channel with four CE per channel for a total of 32 CE. The 64L TLC used on these drives is typically 256Gb/die (32GiB/die). 32 * 32 = 1TiB of NAND. For a 2TB SKU they can go up to 512Gb/die (this is what WD and Samsung do on the SN750 and 970 EVO, respectively) but with a double-sided drive (those other two are single-sided) you can get away with 256Gb/die if you double up the dies per CE. This increases controller overhead and results in a small drop in performance (~10%). The other two drives mentioned also see a small drop because denser NAND has a bit less overhead at the same amount of layers, however upcoming E16 drives utilize 96L NAND at 512Gb for higher capacities and do not suffer the same drop as the E12 drives (although at 512Gb the 96L isn't terribly faster outside of sequentials).
 

swetmore

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I just picked one of these up with a vanteq pci-e card.. used a $5 off coupon, and got a free 32gb usb 3.0 flash drive too. About to shut down and install. I will be migrating my VM's over to this drive.

Update: derp.. installed on the PCIe 2 slot .. Z97 board has one 3.0 slot (not using video card as I no longer game, but occasionally still play CSS with onboard graphics).

All is well so far, except I am getting half the rated sequential speeds until I pull back apart and swap slots.

Update 2: Put it in the PCIe 3 slot:

inland.jpg



Back to copying over the rest of the VMs

Update 3: All VMs much snappier now with this drive, and now plenty of extra space.. Best $100 spent in a LONG time! Will be putting the Samsung 845DC 500GB in my daughters iMAC.. Updated sig :)
 
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TechHead

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Need some help guys. I installed a Sabrent 512GB variant on my new X1 Yoga 3rd Gen - but my write speeds are quite low.
Any idea why this might be the case?
 

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wadec22

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Need some help guys. I installed a Sabrent 512GB variant on my new X1 Yoga 3rd Gen - but my write speeds are quite low.
Any idea why this might be the case?
1. Did you test right after after installing OS or copying all the files - could be that you tested right after exhausting all the cache. Approx. 600mb/s seq writes looks about right for an exhausted cache on newer controllers.
2. What does Crystal Disk Info report for temps during testing? Phison temps run hot and it could be thermal throttling in a laptop by the time it gets to writes where these drives seem to heat up the most.
 

OFaceSIG

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Best $100 spent in a LONG time! Will be putting the Samsung 845DC 500GB in my daughters iMAC.. Updated sig :)
You're a nicer father than I. Much like my step son now drives manual because I only gave him the option to drive my old Scion, my daughters will grow up in a Mac free home.
 

swetmore

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You're a nicer father than I. Much like my step son now drives manual because I only gave him the option to drive my old Scion, my daughters will grow up in a Mac free home.
I tried to get my daughters to use PCs.. built both of them windows 10 machines., SSDs and all. would not even touch them, and stuck with their macbooks.. so sold those machines off.. The iMac is a pain in the a$$ to dig into.. but will be a project for a rainy day.
 

dhp318

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You don't have to wait, there is a 1.9TB E12 drive on the market now for around $350 or maybe less by now. Do a search.

I'm sure we are about to see in the coming weeks / months possibly larger E12 drives. There are massive profits on these NVMe drives as they use literally $35 dollars in parts and factored into that cost is labor, lights, replacement, etc. I saw the cost of these chips somewhere, they aren't much. General rule of thumb for wholesale, retail pricing is that if they have a $99 shelf price, then they've paid $49 or less wholesale per unit. The factories making these drives profit from quantity. While $15 or $20 profit per drive may not sound like much for the factory, multiply that by 250,000 drives a month. All of a sudden you're talking big numbers.

Where do I get my numbers from? I don't. They are just random possible monthly production numbers. But I am fairly certain I'm in the "ballpark" of what kinda profits the manufactures make per unit. I've read these numbers can be anywhere from 8$ to as high as $20 or $25 per unit.

The next step in the evolution of all of this is a larger E12 drive. It's not if one is coming, but when.

It will probably happen slower than you want but faster than you think.
Sorry, I meant at a price closer in $/GB. After all, what's attractive about the Inland 1TB is the price... gimme some of that 2 TB <200
 

Maxx

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Sorry, I meant at a price closer in $/GB. After all, what's attractive about the Inland 1TB is the price... gimme some of that 2 TB <200
The 2TB 660p can already be found well below $200. If you want that heavier performance in addition, you'll have to wait a bit. Current low I've seen is $239.99 for the 2TB Sabrent Rocket. SSD prices should fall 5-10% more in Q3 so with the right BF deal I think you'll get there.
 

Maxx

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Need some help guys. I installed a Sabrent 512GB variant on my new X1 Yoga 3rd Gen - but my write speeds are quite low.
Any idea why this might be the case?
The sequential write speed result is low but it's quite normal for a TLC-based drive to hit ~600 MB/s at that capacity when the SLC cache is exhausted. The cache is ~30GB on most E12 drives. It should rebound quickly, though. Doing a lot of benchmarks may exhaust it as well. Basically, within the SLC band the drive will write ~2000 MB/s which will only last 15 seconds (30GB) when empty. After that it does direct-to-TLC which is ~600 MB/s at that capacity.

I'd be more concerned with the 4K results. 33/79 should be closer to like 50/170. Is your drive 4K aligned? That's only a factor if you cloned. The Rocket was known to have a sector size issue (now fixed with a download from Sabrent) previously as well. Are you running the newest build of Windows 10?
 
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mikeo

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The 2TB 660p can already be found well below $200. If you want that heavier performance in addition, you'll have to wait a bit. Current low I've seen is $239.99 for the 2TB Sabrent Rocket. SSD prices should fall 5-10% more in Q3 so with the right BF deal I think you'll get there.
That 660p makes a great 2tb usb-c drive.
 

TechHead

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The sequential write speed result is low but it's quite normal for a TLC-based drive to hit ~600 MB/s at that capacity when the SLC cache is exhausted. The cache is ~30GB on most E12 drives. It should rebound quickly, though. Doing a lot of benchmarks may exhaust it as well. Basically, within the SLC band the drive will write ~2000 MB/s which will only last 15 seconds (30GB) when empty. After that it does direct-to-TLC which is ~600 MB/s at that capacity.

I'd be more concerned with the 4K results. 33/79 should be closer to like 50/170. Is your drive 4K aligned? That's only a factor if you cloned. The Rocket was known to have a sector size issue (now fixed with a download from Sabrent) previously as well. Are you running the newest build of Windows 10?
Hi Maxx and wadec22, thanks for your replies.
This is set up as a fresh drive, using a bootable USB Sandisk Extreme pendrive as the install media. Used the latest Windows 10 ISO from MS and it picked up my 10 Pro key directly from the BIOS and activated itself.
All the drivers are updated through Lenovo Vantage and Windows Update.
I wasn't doing anything serious that could max out the cache - just some web browsing and Excel work when I ran the benchmarks.
Not sure about the temps though - I will check once more and run the benchmarks when the laptop is freshly booted.
Will update here. Thanks.
 
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///AMG

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Hm, thinking about getting one of these since Microcenter sent me a $25 off coupon in the mail.
 

wadec22

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Hi Maxx and wadec22, thanks for your replies.
This is set up as a fresh drive, using a bootable USB Sandisk Extreme pendrive as the install media. Used the latest Windows 10 ISO from MS and it picked up my 10 Pro key directly from the BIOS and activated itself.
All the drivers are updated through Lenovo Vantage and Windows Update.
I wasn't doing anything serious that could max out the cache - just some web browsing and Excel work when I ran the benchmarks.
Not sure about the temps though - I will check once more and run the benchmarks when the laptop is freshly booted.
Will update here. Thanks.
keep in mind that windows update downloading and installing in the background could be busy enough to saturate the cache. re-run the test when you are certain windows is done doing it's thing or is not connected to the internet. only other thing i can think of is temps. looking forward to hearing what it was.
 

///AMG

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Lucky....
I get coupons from micro center from time to time for free usb drives and microsd cards but this was the first time I’ve ever seen them give me a coupon for anything off. Also they are still doing free microsd cards and usb flash drives.
 

IdiotInCharge

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How does this compare with EVO 970
Same speed.

or Intel 660 1Tb NVMEdrives
Faster and the same price. I'd only consider the 660p at 2TB because of the lower price and / or the single-sided build for mobile devices, with attention paid to staying with a read-heavy workload, which is what typical desktop use is. For content creation, get one of these Inlands at least, and you're better off paying up for something with better sustained write speeds. Optane would be the best if you're pushing around hundreds of gigabytes, and you'll pay for the privilege.
 

[L]imey

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Had to return this drive, just ordered the Intel 660. While I liked the inland, it seemed to be incompatible with my Helios 300 laptop. It caused Windows to not want to restart.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Had to return this drive, just ordered the Intel 660. While I liked the inland, it seemed to be incompatible with my Helios 300 laptop. It caused Windows to not want to restart.
I had to do a complete reinstall to metal- but that's Secure Boot for you.
 

TechHead

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So the drive is at 35 degrees C, which is ~95 degrees Fahrenheit.
Have attached a screenshot of a fresh benchmark - not sure what the issue is. Read speeds seem to be fine, but the write speeds are a concern.
 

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wadec22

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So the drive is at 35 degrees C, which is ~95 degrees Fahrenheit.
Have attached a screenshot of a fresh benchmark - not sure what the issue is. Read speeds seem to be fine, but the write speeds are a concern.
How are you reading the temp? if using Crystal Disk Info, note that it isn't an self-updating reading. you have to click off and click back on to refresh it. So you want to do that while it's doing the writes to see what it says. I have a very high airflow setup and the one inland 1tb idles at 22 C but gets up to 55 C when benchmarking. If you are idling at 35 C - seems reasonable, it would still be interesting to see what temps are hitting while writing.
 

AnIgnorantPerson

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How are you reading the temp? if using Crystal Disk Info, note that it isn't an self-updating reading. you have to click off and click back on to refresh it. So you want to do that while it's doing the writes to see what it says. I have a very high airflow setup and the one inland 1tb idles at 22 C but gets up to 55 C when benchmarking. If you are idling at 35 C - seems reasonable, it would still be interesting to see what temps are hitting while writing.
you can also download a trial of hd sentinel. it is 100% worth buying in my book. i bought a 5 key pack a couple years ago and it was worth it. dev is also good and responsive.

i agree i am betting its over heating and throttling
 

swetmore

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As noted in my post, I am using a Vantec PCIe / NVMe adapter card.. Crystal disk, HW Monitor, nothing i have tried yet can see the SSD for temps, SMART and TB written.. Anyone know of any software that works?
 
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SixFootDuo

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How are you reading the temp? if using Crystal Disk Info, note that it isn't an self-updating reading. you have to click off and click back on to refresh it. So you want to do that while it's doing the writes to see what it says. I have a very high airflow setup and the one inland 1tb idles at 22 C but gets up to 55 C when benchmarking. If you are idling at 35 C - seems reasonable, it would still be interesting to see what temps are hitting while writing.
These drives and others are rated to function at much higher temps than what you are reporting.

I have doubts that heat is causing your issues.

Do you have the PCI speed set at 4x in the bios? Go look and double check that the exact port this NVMe drive is on is set to 4x. Are your PCI lanes maxed out / over saturated ?

Change the M.2 socket this drive is in. Move it around. I get slower speeds in different ports. Not even kidding. I know, I've double and triple checked. Not much speed difference but enough that I was surprised.

Disable USB ports you're not using. I "think" I've read this can be a problem in some circumstances. Not exactly sure.

Anyways, you guys should be disabling on-board sound / bluetooth and USB ports that you're not using.

Update your drivers and firmware. This can also make a huge difference.

Launch msconfig and disable services you don't want starting up and running in the background. Again, this can impact performance.

Go download ESO ( Easy Service Optimizer v1.2 ) and run it. Amazing little utility that will turn off a lot of resource stealing and killing services giving you back control of as much performance / memory as possible.

https://www.sordum.org/8637/easy-service-optimizer-v1-2/

And def do this ... Add "Ultimate Performance" to your Power Plan in Control Panel. This is another additional boost in over-all performance.

You can do this easily. Launch CMD under admin and paste this into the window without the brackets - ( powercfg -duplicatescheme e9a42b02-d5df-448d-aa00-03f14749eb61 )

Do all of these things ... reboot ... and run the benchmark again. I'm curious to see what these numbers would be.

Regardless if your numbers improve or not, all of you guys should be doing my suggestions.
 
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wadec22

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These drives and others are rated to function at much higher temps than what you are reporting.

I have doubts that heat is causing your issues.

Do you have the PCI speed set at 4x in the bios? Go look and double check that the exact port this NVMe drive is on is set to 4x. Are your PCI lanes maxed out / over saturated ?

Change the M.2 socket this drive is in. Move it around. I get slower speeds in different ports. Not even kidding. I know, I've double and triple checked. Not much speed difference but enough that I was surprised.

Disable USB ports you're not using. I "think" I've read this can be a problem in some circumstances. Not exactly sure.

Anyways, you guys should be disabling on-board sound / bluetooth and USB ports that you're not using.

Update your drivers and firmware. This can also make a huge difference.

Launch msconfig and disable services you don't want starting up and running in the background. Again, this can impact performance.

Go download ESO ( Easy Service Optimizer v1.2 ) and run it. Amazing little utility that will turn off a lot of resource stealing and killing services giving you back control of as much performance / memory as possible.

https://www.sordum.org/8637/easy-service-optimizer-v1-2/

And def do this ... Add "Ultimate Performance" to your Power Plan in Control Panel. This is another additional boost in over-all performance.

You can do this easily. Launch CMD under admin and paste this into the window without the brackets - ( powercfg -duplicatescheme e9a42b02-d5df-448d-aa00-03f14749eb61 )

Do all of these things ... reboot ... and run the benchmark again. I'm curious to see what these numbers would be.

Regardless if your numbers improve or not, all of you guys should be doing my suggestions.
um what? i'm not having issues. i'm trying to help the guy who is. obviously my temps are ideal and thus no issues.
 

SixFootDuo

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um what? i'm not having issues. i'm trying to help the guy who is. obviously my temps are ideal and thus no issues.

Clearly, I quoted the wrong person .... but I'm sure you figured that out on your own.

Same difference however, pass my suggestions along as yours .... I don't care.

This should help him, you, anyone.
 

wadec22

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Clearly, I quoted the wrong person .... but I'm sure you figured that out on your own.

Same difference however, pass my suggestions along as yours .... I don't care.

This should help him, you, anyone.
You said he shouldn't be having problems at those temps. We're you referring to mine or his then? If he's idling at 35c in a laptop, he is likely thermal throttling when benchmarking.
 

compgeek89

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Has anyone put these in a raid card? I just bought 4 and put them in a HighPoint SSD7103, haven't tested it out yet, but obviously hoping I won't have heat issues, especially since they're double sided.
 
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