HOT: Pioneer 1TB NVMe E12 Controller $119 @ Amazon

Discussion in '[H]ot|DEALS' started by SixFootDuo, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. horrorshow

    horrorshow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nioce. Now I don't feel stupid for paying $120 last week..
     
  2. mazeroth

    mazeroth Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, it's called a sale.....riiiiight.
     
  3. horrorshow

    horrorshow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Just a heads up, I slapped an EK NVMe heatsink on the 1TB and load temps dropped almost 20c..
     
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  4. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    What were your temps before? Im guessing your board doesn't have integrated heatsinks.
     
  5. horrorshow

    horrorshow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Temps maxed at 61c before.. After installing the heatsink, highest reading was 43c.
     
  6. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nice drop.
     
  7. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Updated thread, made the deal cold. $152 is a 60% increase for it's lowest price point. Use your own judgement.
     
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  8. mnewxcv

    mnewxcv [H]ardness Supreme

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  9. xx0xx

    xx0xx Gawd

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    wow, that was quite a fast jump in price. :eek:
     
  10. YeuEmMaiMai

    YeuEmMaiMai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    are these even the same drive? looks different than the ones I have

    price is $140 here
     
  11. jimbob200521

    jimbob200521 Gawd

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    With all this talk of prices going up on memory and solid state storage coming up (and seems to have already started), I'm glad I got my 1tb Sabrent nvme about a week ago before prices really started climbing. I paid I think $130 for it which was enough but still, could and will be worse.
     
  12. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Well then, won't be buying these any time soon.
     
  13. heelix

    heelix [H]ard|Gawd

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    Damn it. Just getting ready to build out the next box. Was there an event (or increased collusion) that is driving up these drive prices?
     
  14. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    Samsung(?) chip plant had a power outage recently, not sure if that's exactly why but wouldn't surprise me
     
  15. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG 2[H]4U

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  16. Halon

    Halon Limp Gawd

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    Once upon a time Pioneer made a pretty wide variety of PC hardware and optical media drives. I'm still running a Pioneer Blu-ray drive in my workstation that's among the fastest I've benchmarked for ripping media. This is kinda neat to see; I just wonder how good a drive it is.
     
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  17. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG 2[H]4U

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    In theory this is just the same reference design with their sticker on it. No different than what sabrent and many others were doing. It has the same string of numbers along the top of the PCB like many of the reference PCBs do.
     
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  18. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Do these normally run pretty hot?

    I stuck one in a laptop which as no heatsinks, but now its fans are at non-inaudible levels all the time. I wonder if it is compensating for heat released by this drive.
     
  19. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune 2[H]4U

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    I suppose I should look at temps. The Asrock board mine is in didn't have heatsinks, but the HAF 932 has a 240mm fan pulling air in from the side.
    I might give that Pioneer one a shot. we will see
     
  20. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    They can get toasty w/o a heatsink. If there is room, try a thinner heatsink. For ex. this Lenovo E595 would not fit a thick ek sink so I used the one below. Ideally you want the drive not to throttle.

    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J1VKPSX/
     
  21. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune 2[H]4U

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    Mine hit 72*c under use. Otherwise 23*c.

    More stuff to get. It's a shame there isn't a waterblock for these.
     
  22. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I really don't care much about throttling. This machine is used for Office, Email and Minitab.

    I just want to slow down the fans. :p
     
  23. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Aquacomputer make a few blocks for m.2.
     
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  24. jimbob200521

    jimbob200521 Gawd

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    What are y'all using to monitor temps?
     
  25. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune 2[H]4U

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    I used HWiNfo64, but CrystalDiskInfo shows temps too

    It's a good thing I'm not using air to cool the TR. Thanks for the suggestion. I may actually go that route
     
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  26. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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  27. jimbob200521

    jimbob200521 Gawd

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    CrystalDiskInfo doesn't show the drive for me (for some reason) and I don't think I'll use HWinfo64 again as it likes to wreak havoc with my Corsair RGB stuff.
     
  28. horrorshow

    horrorshow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Same.

    And yea, these things do run hot so get a heatsink if need be....
     
  29. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune 2[H]4U

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    I'll just blow on it, it'll be fine...
     
  30. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    RE: Heat

    These SSD drives can run very very warm to somewhere approaching hot by design. At one point I had the operating temp range for these chips and I remember the numbers were like 160F or something silly. Can they run hotter than the flames of hell? Probably not. When I've researched this, it was always an air-flow issue.

    Sorry but I also think part of the problem is that people are over-reacting, finding a solution and then sharing that experience with people. Presto, you've just panicked everyone.

    For example those Panasonic commercial 80mm fans that were all the rage 10 - 12 years ago. I'm not sure I really even needed them but damn, it felt good to know those loud motherfockers were cooling everything I pointed one at. I'm sure these heat-sinks have a very similar effect on people. Peace of mind as well probably reducing heat.

    Imagine that you're a cave man and you're out one late morning hunting for small game and or forging for nuts and berries, plants, etc. Maybe you just wanted to go draw some graffiti on some rocks, who the hell knows ... and then one day you cross paths with a HUGE prehistoric Cave Bear standing at 11 foot tall. You run home, tell everyone what you saw and then, the whole village stays away from that part of the surrounding area. Presto, you've just panicked the whole village ( these forums ) ..... Only, it wasn't a HUGE Cave Bear, it was a much smaller bear making a lot of noise.

    I've bought and used 3 of these drives personally and suggested, bought / supplied around 11 or 12 of these for clients and a few friends. 30% of them going into laptops. I've never had one issue whatsoever.

    Of course these PC's and Laptop's are modern and properly ventilated.

    Most of you don't have anything to worry about so you can relax.

    I'm sure there are guys in here that have their PC's near vents in their room, stuffed under a small desk next to a bed or dresser, even a trash can can create a zone of warm air that's not ideal for a PC. Hell, even a small bedroom can create a warm climate zone depending on a few factors. I've even seen where case fans were never plugged in and they never thought to investigate, or became unplugged.

    I'm not convinced at all this should be a serious consideration when purchasing this drive.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020 at 6:17 AM
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  31. Maxx

    Maxx [H]ard|Gawd

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    The drive (controller) will throttle around 70C. How long would you have to sustain writes to hit that? Approximately 100s of writing at a maximum (low queue depth) of 2100 MB/s - that's 210GB of writes. Perhaps more relevantly, what's the equilibrium write speed at this point? 1350 MB/s. Why is this relevant? Because the E12 drives only have, at most, 24GB of dynamic SLC cache, after which you drop to TLC speeds. Which at 1TB are around 1050 MB/s. Which means no amount of writes will throttle. (source: TechPowerUp)

    Those poking around my source will point out that using a fan removed the throttling state. Great. Now go back one page. Sustained writes over 15 minutes: 1006 MB/s. Yep, just like I said.

    Heatsinks should be considered for aesthetic purposes, not least because cooling the NAND when writing is bad (damages the cells). (source: pgs. 26-27, JEDEC) Are there exceptions? Absolutely - but a heatsink won't do any good without proper airflow, and proper airflow would almost always be sufficient.

    Keep in mind that mixed, small I/O at queue depth can make a drive run hotter than even sequential writes. E.g. doing mass Windows updates, which may remain in SLC. In that case, yes, cooling a drive can improve performance, although personally none of my drives - and I run five NVMe in my main PC alone - have ever hit 70C. Then again when I use heatsinks on them, I cool only the controller if possible, and I always have good airflow.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020 at 9:33 AM
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  32. tempertantrum

    tempertantrum Limp Gawd

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    Are you sure you're not running the Professional, as opposed to the premium? Those numbers seem way out of line.
     
  33. arnemetis

    arnemetis 2[H]4U

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    AS SSD tests lower than crystal, you can see my replies where I did the same test.
     
  34. Maxx

    Maxx [H]ard|Gawd

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    Update the firmware. Although be aware, queue depth is a factor for sequentials.
     
  35. arnemetis

    arnemetis 2[H]4U

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    Updating the firmware has always seemed like a hack job on these, and potentially destructive. Are you sure it will actually make an appreciable difference?

    For me it's the boot drive for my server, which only reboots quarterly, and I cannot afford any possibility of a fried drive. I can't image it provides enough of a benefit for me to bother, but perhaps it will for DogsofJune.
     
  36. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune 2[H]4U

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    I dunno if I will mess with the firmware. I may look into it.
     
  37. Maxx

    Maxx [H]ard|Gawd

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    It's definitely worth updating from ECFM11.0, he's on ECFM12.1 so it's less beneficial. Nevertheless might improve his sequentials a little if he cares that much. As stated, sequential performance at low queue depth is going to be much lower, not to mention TLC speeds on this drive are closer to 1000 MB/s anyway.

    I think it's been covered in this thread that the firmware updates are non-destructive. I think the most current is 12.4 but I've only seen 12.3 in this thread (I believe). I don't think there's much to gain from 12.1 to 12.3. It's also possible to use generic drives for the storage controller on this drive - that's how you get the VLO utility to read the hardware - but it's not necessary from a performance standpoint.
     
  38. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune 2[H]4U

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    What was the conclusion on the 512 gig versions? I picked one up so I could send off the WD Black that bellied up on me.
    I guess we will see if it's worth the $70 for it.
     
  39. horrorshow

    horrorshow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Mine came with 12.6 (picked up at MC 2 weeks ago)
     
  40. Maxx

    Maxx [H]ard|Gawd

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    Nice. The problem is locating one you can flash, unfortunately. Although I don't think there were any huge improvements past 12.1 (which was more consistent than the launch 11.x).