Horizon Zero Dawn (Official Discussion Thread)

Flogger23m said:
Just the nature of product vs services. I'm sure this will be discounted and doubt it will be full priced and if not, I'll assume a good sale will be hard shortly.

I think the big issue here is you'd have to synchronize your purchases across platforms. I'm not sure if Sony/Valve are willing to share that information with each other, plus any other technical issues that may arise. But individually on Steam/Playstation developers seem to give discounts to when upgrading to new versions. I know when the PS4 came out people who owned PS3 versions of some games could redeem the PS4 version for free. Or maybe that was Microsoft.
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It should/would be pretty simple to sync your Steam library to your PSN account, without sharing much, if any other data. There are plenty of other things which do something similar. And linking Steam/PSN has been done.

Lest we not forget that once upon a time----Valve proposed some version of Steam on PS3 (which was killed before it really even took a breath). and when you bought the PS3 version of Portal 2 ---- you did get the Steam version along with it. And that was facilitated by linking your accounts. it was supposed to have cross platform co-op play, as well. I....can't remember if that ever happened or not.


But you shouldn't mistake the above comments as me generally supporting the idea that we need to have everything sync up and we should only ever buy a title once. Because I don't really think that way.

With HZD, specifically: 3 years is not a risk proposition for a buyer. Its not a bait and switch or some sort of trick or otherwise an artificial way to boost console sales. Those sorts of tactics happen MUCH sooner than 3 years. 3 years is a whole lot of time for you to buy a console game and enjoy the heck out of it. 3 years is....a surprise. 3 years is a developer dipping their toes into a new market. 2.9 years ago, a first party Sony port to PC was a pipe dream.


We don't have any real statements yet, about what ideas are driving the existence of this port. But, it seems to me that Sony is doing some low risk testing of the PC waters. And I wouldn't be surprised if PC gamers respond well, with solid sales. And I wouldn't be surprised if Sony ends up doing more timely ports of upcoming games.
 
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Flogger23m said:
Just the nature of product vs services. I'm sure this will be discounted and doubt it will be full priced and if not, I'll assume a good sale will be hard shortly.
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I would expect the game to launch on PC at $40 maximum or maybe $30 or less on a sale pretty soon after launch. It's been $20 new on PSN for a long time now and on sale as low as $6 or so a handful of times on PSN. Unlike Nintendo, Sony moves their exclusives to the "Greatest hits" collection after so long and amount of sales, which prices them at $20 max at that point wherever you buy it, which is nice and just another one of the reasons I tell people to pick up a used PS4 for < $200 at this point and enjoy some of the best games on the market for super cheap.
 
Flogger23m said:
Just the nature of product vs services. I'm sure this will be discounted and doubt it will be full priced and if not, I'll assume a good sale will be hard shortly.
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I was talking broadly not just actual services but companies manufacturing equipment and components as well. You buy one thing you then get bombarded with discounts for years even if you don't buy a single other product from them.
I think the big issue here is you'd have to synchronize your purchases across platforms. I'm not sure if Sony/Valve are willing to share that information with each other, plus any other technical issues that may arise. But individually on Steam/Playstation developers seem to give discounts to when upgrading to new versions. I know when the PS4 came out people who owned PS3 versions of some games could redeem the PS4 version for free. Or maybe that was Microsoft.
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They don't have to share information. PSN could poop out a discount coupon code for the steam version if the game is in your account.
 
I want a "GamesAnywhere" pass like they have for movies. I would likely pay $20 more for a game, if i got it on all formats (PC, PS4, Xbox One). As is, i just try to decide which platform seems like the best fit.
 
chameleoneel said:
It should/would be pretty simple to sync your Steam library to your PSN account, without sharing much, if any other data. There are plenty of other things which do something similar. And linking Steam/PSN has been done.

Lest we not forget that once upon a time----Valve proposed some version of Steam on PS3 (which was killed before it really even took a breath). and when you bought the PS3 version of Portal 2 ---- you did get the Steam version along with it. And that was facilitated by linking your accounts. it was supposed to have cross platform co-op play, as well. I....can't remember if that ever happened or not.
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Then that should work. But I think in this case, the game won't be very expensive. $40 with all the DLC max to cover the porting costs is my guess. Probably $30. Does the $20 PS4 version include all the DLC currently?

chameleoneel said:
We don't have any real statements yet, about what ideas are driving the existence of this port. But, it seems to me that Sony is doing some low risk testing of the PC waters. And I wouldn't be surprised if PC gamers respond well, with solid sales. And I wouldn't be surprised if Sony ends up doing more timely ports of upcoming games.
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I don't think they'll do it in a timely matter, but 1-2 years post release may be doable. At the end of the day, first party games drive console sales and probably in turn help drive PSN subscriptions (the real money maker). In general Sony's games tend to be SP, but again more consoles sold means a higher rate of selling their online subscription.

But I do hope they bring their other games over. Sony seems to have a lot of popular, high quality SP titles. If the PC ports are handled well that would be great.

M76 said:
They don't have to share information. PSN could poop out a discount coupon code for the steam version if the game is in your account.
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I think the account linking mentioned above makes more sense. Otherwise there is nothing stopping someone from getting a coupon and giving it to an entirely different person.
 
Derangel said:
I would guess at max it’ll be $30, depending on what all they do with the port and how much they think they can get away with.
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Hopefully it gets some good graphic upgrades. I don't expect miracles and expect it to look a bit dated, hopefully it will look decent enough.
 
Derangel said:
Why would you expect $60? The Complete Edition launched at $20 on the PS4.
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It's actually 20% off now making it $15. But if they make it $60 on steam then we really know where they stand. My guess is $40.

Flogger23m said:
Hopefully it gets some good graphic upgrades. I don't expect miracles and expect it to look a bit dated, hopefully it will look decent enough.
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Even if it was ported unchanged and you only get higher resolution it still wouldn't look dated.
 
Honestly, if the game is $40 on PC at launch, I will buy it again without hesitation. Though I did only get it for $35 or so on PSN like a month after it launched as part of a PS+ sale and also a small credit I had from buying my PS4 Pro.

If you like these types of games at all, $30 or less for this tier of a game is great. I would hope $30 would be the PC launch price though considering it's frequently been well below $20 on sale directly from PSN for a couple years now. If they launch it at $60 though, I still think it's worth it, but pretty shitty to price it there when it's 1/3 of that on PS4 before any sales.

Have they announced Death Stranding's price on PC? I'm guessing it'll be $60 since it hasn't been out long enough on PS4 to be discounted outside of sales.
 
Kinda feel this game on PC will be much easier than on PS4 due to mouse and keyboard. I'll be picking it up for PC, I did not enjoy playing it on PS4 with the controller.
 
pandora's box said:
Kinda feel this game on PC will be much easier than on PS4 due to mouse and keyboard. I'll be picking it up for PC, I did not enjoy playing it on PS4 with the controller.
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I had a lot less problems with this one as I do with days gone, basically gave up on that game.
 
pandora's box said:
Kinda feel this game on PC will be much easier than on PS4 due to mouse and keyboard. I'll be picking it up for PC, I did not enjoy playing it on PS4 with the controller.
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As far as controller goes this one of the more playable games, case in point I was able to finish it (albeit only on story difficulty).
 
I wonder if it will really look dated at all, just being able to max the graphics and run smoothly should make for a good looking game. That said, I do hope we can turn it up past the console limitations...
 
DWolvin said:
I wonder if it will really look dated at all, just being able to max the graphics and run smoothly should make for a good looking game. That said, I do hope we can turn it up past the console limitations...
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Have you seen it on PS4? This game still holds up to current PC games easily. As always in games like this though, I'm sure it could benefit from a higher LOD in distant objects, AA, and AF. But never at any point while I was playing it on Pro did any of those effects distract me either. I think the biggest benefit by far on PC will just be 60+ FPS. The only extra graphical upgrade I would like to see on it is RT, but I doubt that'll happen.

It's amazing the amount of graphical output they're able to squeeze out of the consoles, esp. Sony's first party studios.
 
DWolvin said:
I wonder if it will really look dated at all, just being able to max the graphics and run smoothly should make for a good looking game. That said, I do hope we can turn it up past the console limitations...
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The game looks amazing on PS4. They really don't have to do anything but add native internal resolution rendering above 1920x1080 and uncapped framerate. The textures do look poor in some areas, but they are probably not going to take time to redo assets just for the PC.
 
Fair enough to them on textures (but I would hope for a little clean up). I had not thought of draw distance or LoD, but that would be great! I just went and watched a couple of videos while waiting on a long install and I think it's going to look fairly amazing.
 
DWolvin said:
Fair enough to them on textures (but I would hope for a little clean up). I had not thought of draw distance or LoD, but that would be great! I just went and watched a couple of videos while waiting on a long install and I think it's going to look fairly amazing.
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Draw in is pretty bad on the standard PS4, but I never noticed any while playing the game on my Pro. The game is pretty dense with foliage and terrain, so the LOD is probably just good enough to hide any sectors in the world not being fully rendered.
 
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Yeah- the bump up in quality on the pro is impressive and makes me think it's going to look spectacular. I did just see a note that you can't pick a dominant shoulder for the camera. I really hope they fix that!
 
T4rd said:
But never at any point while I was playing it on Pro did any of those effects distract me either.
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While not discounting your perspective or other respected perspectives, when reading your post it occurred to me that when looking at games running on a console, we're quite likely to accept lower quality visuals than we see on desktops without realizing it.

I just don't expect games to look great on a console. If a game looks better than average as this one appears to, cool! I'd just reserve opinions for more direct comparisons when they're available.


*This is also not to say that with the right content and the right tuning, that a top-end console couldn't get to the point of being indistinguishable, or at least, functionally indistinguishable, given the delta in development contexts
 
Armenius said:
Draw in is pretty bad on the standard PS4, but I never noticed any while playing the game on my Pro. The game is pretty dense with foliage and terrain, so the LOD is probably just good enough to hide any sectors in the world not being fully rendered.
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In general, since the Xbox 360 era, draw distance, resolution, lack of AA and whatnot have been the main differences between console and PC versions. This keeps the overall visual and graphical effects closer but when it motion you tend to notice it. In general, graphics haven't been moving as fast technologically over the past few years and it seems like that is increasingly the case now.

But a slight upgrade, maybe an HD texture pack and of course native high resolutions, frame rates and AA would be great.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
While not discounting your perspective or other respected perspectives, when reading your post it occurred to me that when looking at games running on a console, we're quite likely to accept lower quality visuals than we see on desktops without realizing it.

I just don't expect games to look great on a console. If a game looks better than average as this one appears to, cool! I'd just reserve opinions for more direct comparisons when they're available.


*This is also not to say that with the right content and the right tuning, that a top-end console couldn't get to the point of being indistinguishable, or at least, functionally indistinguishable, given the delta in development contexts
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Have you played this game or any other PS4 exclusive on a PS4 Pro and 4K TV though? Because I have a similarly spec'd PC to the one in your signature and love my PC games as well, and I don't think Horizon gives much up, if anything in terms of image quality to any modern equiviant game on PC.

I don't expect games to look great on console either.. in general. But Sony's exclusives are objectively in another league in terms of their quality assurance and attention to detail compared to pretty much any other 3rd party studio, and thus it evelvates most of their games to another tier above what you're used to seeing on consoles.

I invite you to check out Digital Foundry's tech analysis' of the game back when it came out. And keep in mind that Gurilla patched the hell out of this game to iron out any performance issues whatsoever since its inital launch pretty quickly (about a month or two after launch when they updated it with its "performance" and "quality" modes, which I honestly didn't see much difference at all in for either IQ or performance) and they added some decent effects to the game as well such as water wading while you're swimming and snow/ground deformation when the DLC hit as well.





And a decent interview with their devs here:

 
H:ZD is one of, if not the best looking game I've ever played - PC titles included.

I hope the price is closer to $30 than $40, but I'll probably still buy it regardless. Would love to replay that game with mouse and keyboard.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
While not discounting your perspective or other respected perspectives, when reading your post it occurred to me that when looking at games running on a console, we're quite likely to accept lower quality visuals than we see on desktops without realizing it.

I just don't expect games to look great on a console. If a game looks better than average as this one appears to, cool! I'd just reserve opinions for more direct comparisons when they're available.


*This is also not to say that with the right content and the right tuning, that a top-end console couldn't get to the point of being indistinguishable, or at least, functionally indistinguishable, given the delta in development contexts
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Yeah, no. Horizon is a damn good looking game. Not every part of it holds up, but I'd say it's on par with some of the best looking PC games.
 
T4rd said:
I don't think Horizon gives much up, if anything in terms of image quality to any modern equiviant game on PC.
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Derangel said:
Yeah, no. Horizon is a damn good looking game. Not every part of it holds up, but I'd say it's on par with some of the best looking PC games.
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While I stand by the intent of my post above, I realized at the time and with your responses afterward that it's a hard point to clearly make. Especially not without seeming to be slighting the game on the PS4 Pro ;)

So that's not what I'm trying to say. The game does look amazing, and with respect to what most PC games do, I don't think there's a difference worth discussing.


It's really just bringing up the common inherent biases between the platforms and how games are generally played, in relation to making comparisons between platforms. And I do mean 'common' and 'generally' very seriously, because here at the [H] is where I'd expect to hear about exceptions.

Commonly, we expect console games to be less detailed than desktop games, at the very top end. A game like this is still quite likely among the top range of games regardless, but it stands to reason simply due to hardware capabilities that the very best desktop games should look and play better on top end hardware. I'm betting that we'll see that difference with the desktop release.

Second, just the basic use of a controller and a TV from a couch is going to change player perspectives on graphics detail and performance. Mouse looking and players sitting closer to the display together reveal limitations that don't exist on consoles.

The way that we perceive and experience console games, in general, is different enough that we're bound to be more critical of desktop games -- which is what I was trying to say above.


And with that all in mind, I think it's also important to point out that developers take advantage of the differences when developing for each platform. Performance doesn't need to be as high for certain things because controllers are smoother and less snappy (with respect to the sticks), and game world design can be tuned for the finite but highly reliable processing capabilities of the target console hardware, something y'all alluded to above.


So I'd expect that a game as well tuned as this for the PS4 and PS4 Pro to look amazing, and better than one would expect on 'comparable' desktop hardware.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
While I stand by the intent of my post above, I realized at the time and with your responses afterward that it's a hard point to clearly make. Especially not without seeming to be slighting the game on the PS4 Pro ;)

So that's not what I'm trying to say. The game does look amazing, and with respect to what most PC games do, I don't think there's a difference worth discussing.


It's really just bringing up the common inherent biases between the platforms and how games are generally played, in relation to making comparisons between platforms. And I do mean 'common' and 'generally' very seriously, because here at the [H] is where I'd expect to hear about exceptions.

Commonly, we expect console games to be less detailed than desktop games, at the very top end. A game like this is still quite likely among the top range of games regardless, but it stands to reason simply due to hardware capabilities that the very best desktop games should look and play better on top end hardware. I'm betting that we'll see that difference with the desktop release.

Second, just the basic use of a controller and a TV from a couch is going to change player perspectives on graphics detail and performance. Mouse looking and players sitting closer to the display together reveal limitations that don't exist on consoles.

The way that we perceive and experience console games, in general, is different enough that we're bound to be more critical of desktop games -- which is what I was trying to say above.


And with that all in mind, I think it's also important to point out that developers take advantage of the differences when developing for each platform. Performance doesn't need to be as high for certain things because controllers are smoother and less snappy (with respect to the sticks), and game world design can be tuned for the finite but highly reliable processing capabilities of the target console hardware, something y'all alluded to above.


So I'd expect that a game as well tuned as this for the PS4 and PS4 Pro to look amazing, and better than one would expect on 'comparable' desktop hardware.
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I played this game on my 43" 4K curved Samsung TV that I was using as a computer monitor at the time, so it was on my computer desk and I was sitting about 2' from it as one typically does with a computer monitor. So I was able to notice pretty much all the detail the game had to offer and had plenty opportunity to see any "limitations" of the hardware as well, very little of which there was to notice in this case outside of performance (which was at least locked and stable at 30 FPS 99% of the time).

I understand your concerns with fast camera/character movement on a KB&M as compared to a game controller, but I don't see it being a big deal on faster computer hardware that will be capable of running it at 60+ FPS. I fully expect it to look better on PC as well, but I don't expect it to be a significant enough difference compared to us who've played it on a PS4 Pro already; I'm more interested in the performance benefit and maybe the KB&M controls if it turns out I like them better than the controller (I actually prefer controllers for many 3rd person adventure games, but might appreciate the mouse more here due to combat and aiming so much).
 

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How exactly is the gameplay for those that played it? The world and setting looks interesting. But is it more about scavenging or is the story a big part of it?
 
Flogger23m said:
How exactly is the gameplay for those that played it? The world and setting looks interesting. But is it more about scavenging or is the story a big part of it?
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I really loved the plot, thought it was one of the most interesting in a long time when it comes to apocalypse stuff.

The gameplay is mostly like any other open-world game. Collecting materials, enemies roaming around (generally there are "zones" where certain types of enemies will always be), some collectibles that I actually enjoyed collecting (they had lore attached to them and they were relatively easy to find). Some of the enemies are quite tough and you have to use strategy to defeat them. It can take awhile to down some of the larger enemies.
 
Flogger23m said:
How exactly is the gameplay for those that played it? The world and setting looks interesting. But is it more about scavenging or is the story a big part of it?
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It's pretty story driven, it is semi open world, the harder the difficulty you choose to play the game at (and to some degree your skill) will dictate how much scavenging you need to do as you need to craft most of the ammo and traps, bombs etc.. you use. If you play reasonably well, you should be able to get by with what you find on your travels without having too go too much out of your way for mats.

I played trough it twice, once on normal iirc but switched to easy for the last boss as I found that one insane and once on easy after the DLC came out which imo was a bit more relaxed but i would not say the game was that hard on normal as I don't like hard games and would have dialed it back way sooner
 
polonyc2 said:
I doubt it...you'll wait till it hits the under $10 bin as usual... :D
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Only if its hot garbage from trash developers/publishers like EA or Ubisoft, you should know that by now.....how much longer you going to wait for that magical patch which fixes Anthem?
 
polonyc2 said:
BioWare said they are working on a major rebuild of Anthem...
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Yes, I know....the magical patch which "may" fix what was a broken pile of garbage at release and which remains mostly in that same state over 12 months later, and for which there is no promised time frame for this overhaul being pushed out. I suspect you are happy to wait as long as it takes seeing as you were foolish enough to buy it at release in the first place.
 
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