Help on a good value AMD64/Mobo/Ram/Vid Card combo (just think of it as a challenge)

S

Snooble

Gawd
Joined
Mar 19, 2004
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865
Hey all -

I need a few ideas on motherboard, CPU, ram and a video card for a system upgrade.
Here's what I need, so if you can give me some great suggestions it'd be most appreciated :

- AMD64 CPU - nothing slower than the 3200 (must have the 1meg L2 cache)
- Good solid motherboard (NForce3 250 -or- KT800 and up) <--also, does AMD make duel channel motherboards for the Socket 754 platforms (would prefer this)
- 1 Gig ram
- Either ATi -or- NVidia video card (can hold off on this until the X800 and 6800 comes out in value versions)

*Willing to try the 939 if the CPU and mobo are cheap enough

**Here's what I came up with**

-AMD64 3200 CPU
-Motherboard : Asus® K8N-E Deluxe ($191 NCIX.com)
ASUS K8V SE DELUXE $190 from PCCanada.com)
Abit® KV8-MAX3 ($190 PCCanada.com)
-Memory : CORSAIR VALUE SELECT DUAL CHANNEL 1024MB KIT PC3200 DDR CAS2.5 2X512MB ($258 NCIX.com)
-Video Card : Not a clue in the world


Here's what's migrating into my new PC :
My old hard drive (Maxtor 80gig 7200RPM)
keyboard, monitor, mouse
350 watt power supply *may have to change with upgrade*
Possibly the ATi Radeon 9000 128 meg (until new video card rolls along)


I'd prefer not to go over $700 US , or $1000 Canadian. I'm a Canadian btw, so any places to shop that would give great deals would be uber. Not to mention I'm a returning student to college, married and have a 3 m-onth old son....so value and performance are #1.
 
To answer your question about dual channel on socket 754, no, you have to go 939 for that. The S939 non-FX CPUs only have 512KB L2 cache.

I bought my PC yesterday (see sig) with all the parts from NCIX. Great place; they have good service and they price match.

If you don't want to overclock and don't need the features of the nForce 250GB, I'd say the MSI K8T Neo-FSR is a good choice. It can be had for only CAD$114.

This would be a good value S754 system from NCIX:
A64 3200+ 1MB (Price match ComputerLinkSystems.com) $276 (You have to ask to make sure it's a Clawhammer, ask for the stepping on the CPU)
MSI K8T Neo-FSR (Price match ComputerLinkSystems.com) $114
Corsair Value Select Dual Channel 1024MB Kit (Price match VibeComputers.com) $243.79
Total $633.79
You could get the Leadtek 6800 for $385 price matching ATIC.ca

What are the amps on that 350W PSU?
 
It's an old AOpen power supply...around 2 years old. I can get a new power supply also.

I'll pop the case off later and look at the amps...what is safe for keeping it when I upgrade?
 
K..few more questions :

1 - Which offers more performance : Duel channel DDR -or- 1meg L2 Cache

2 - Which has been shown to be more stable & better performance wise? KT800 or NForce3?

3 - Any ideas on when the newer lines of value X800/6xxx cards will be out?

4 - Anyone know if there will be any price drops in the AMD/NVidia/ATI in the foreseable future?

5 - Which part of my power supply would I find hte AMPS on it ?
 
1. Both of them will show their benefits in certain programs. I can't really find any 3400+ 1MB vs 3500+ benchmarks, but Anandtech has a nice article comparing S754 and S939. That specific link compares the 3400+ 512KB and the 3500+. Xbit has this to say about the S939 dual channel capability:
Second, the new processor socket offers dual-channel memory access to the owners of the Socket 939 platform. I can’t say that the two channels give the Athlon 64 a great advantage in speed (the performance gain from enabling the second memory channel is 3-5% in average). Well, no one promised any performance breakthroughs from the transition to Socket 939, but the improvements in the memory controller allow users to flexibly configure the memory subsystem and use four two-sided DIMM modules in their systems, while Socket 754 processors only supported two two-sided memory modules.
Click to expand...

2. Both of the chipsets are virtually the same in performance, nothing you'd really notice. Go with the chipset with the features you need. The nF3 250GB is less mature than the K8T800, and it has problems with ATI Catalyst drivers and Punkbuster games which causes stuttering. Other than that, they should be equally stable, but get the nF3 250GB if you're overclocking.

3. The 6600 line was just announced a few days ago, but it will be out in PCI-E form before
the AGP version. I don't know how much luck you'd have finding the 6800LE here in Canada. Apparently the X800SE has started to be sold in Dells. You can add on a month or two after the time they come out in the USA for them to reach Canada :(

4. AMD just had a very significant price cut for the Athlon 64 line. The next video card price drops should occur when the next refresh takes place.

5. The label on the side.
 
Well, having been faced with a similar decision not too long ago, it appears I'm the only one who can really help you.

First of all, K8N-E Deluxe is a terrible, terrible board. You'd think it's a good overclocker, but it's nowhere near that. It gets it's pants pawned by MSI K8N Neo Platinum, or even the Gigabyte board. You can't even get over 2.7vdimm on it, which is ridiculous. Even MSI gives you 2.85, and we all know MSI is super wuss. I don't know why anyone in hell would want to pay more for an obviously inferior board. I'd rather go with MSI (I did) Or the Chaitech ZNF250, if you don't mind your board looking like a halloween decordation. It's a perfectly good board otherwise, although doesn't have as many bells and whistles as the MSI counterpart. Both boards use nForce 3 250 (MSI uses Gb), and both are considerably cheap, and are good overclockers.

Second of all, the 1Mb L2 3200s are ClawHammers, now discontinued in the 3200+ and 3400+ variety, not sure about DTR chips, though but it looks like it. The 3200+ you're most likely to buy now has 512k L2 cache and defaults at 2.2GHz. Well, 3000+ is just as good in terms of overclocking anyway, considering your RAM can handle it. I'd save myself a 50 bucks and go with a 3000+, it's an exact same chip whichever way you look at it. You can't get a ClawHammer these days unless you look REALLY hard in some unpopular shack of a retail store. Or you could buy a 3700+, which is out of the question, I think as you can't afford it. I have a 3200+ ClawHammer, true, but I bought mine 3 months ago. So, anyway 3000+ is your best bet.

As for RAM, I did more research than healthy. It appears there's no perfect choice with RAM and A64 board. You obviously can't have dual channel on a 754 chip, but it's not like AMD64 is a bandwidth cow. The extra bandwidth doesn't imporve results nearly as much as on a P4. You really don't need it. Your goal is either to have low latencies, or to have ram that can reach high frequencies, your choice there. The point of low latencies is that you will get a faster response from RAM when your prod it, which works together really nicely with the on-die memory controller. High frequency, on the other hand, so you can overclock your CPU and keep your memory at 1:1 ratio with the FSB. You will get greater bandwidth, but considering your budget, you can't have both a high frequency and low latencies. That would require nothing short of BH-6, or if you're lucky, BH-5 even better, but either is increacingly hard to find and expensive to boot. Corsair XL is great RAM if you want it to run a around 200MHz with a divider (you'd have to use one, as it can't really take the higher frequencies without increacing latencies). You could of course, relax the latencies and overclock it to about 250MHz, which makes this RAM pretty versatile. Beware, though compatibility issues with Neo Platinum board with these sticks, more often it doesn't work than not. It's also a very expensive buy. You could instead get OCZ EB (enhanced bandwidth) Platinum 3500+ or 3700+ sticks, they are great frequency overclockers, but timings aren't too great. Also, they are moderately priced. You could try getting BH-6, the most common form is Mushkin "222 Special" 3200+, it's also great RAM that could run 2-2-2-6 (or 5) at stock, and also run the same frequency at overclocked, although you'd have to voltmod your board. Or buy a ram booster from OCZ. Either way, the Mushkin stick is hard to find and is likely more expensive than it used to be, although it was cheaper than CorsairXL before it was discontinued.

I'm pretty sure that x800 and 6800 cards are too expensive for you either way, but they aren't exactly a good buy. The best of the previous generation match them, or more in some cases. These cards are crippled top to bottom...
 
Darth_Fluffy said:
First of all, K8N-E Deluxe is a terrible, terrible board.
Click to expand...
It's perfectly fine for a stock or slightly overclocked computer. Those MSI K8N Neo Plat boards seem to have some serious quality control issues, so I steered clear of them. It seems all of these nF3 250GB boards have their own little quirks :(
 
Neo Platinum works perfectly for me. Hooking up too many fans to the mobo will kill it, though. And why again would you want to pay way more for a mobo that's not even a good overclocker??
 
Darth_Fluffy said:
Neo Platinum works perfectly for me. Hooking up too many fans to the mobo will kill it, though. And why again would you want to pay way more for a mobo that's not even a good overclocker??
Click to expand...

I'm not overclocking my rig, plus it was CAD$4 more than the K8N Neo.
 
I'm not really looking to overclock my system. I've had some bad experiences doing that :eek:

I could get a AMD64 3400 @ www.pccanada.com for around $400 (has the 1meg L2 cache).


Is there any real difference between the 512 and 1meg L2 cache? If so I think I'll hunt me down a 3200 with 1meg L2.
 
Well, you do whatever you want. Either way, the ASUS board is more expensive, like all ASUS boards. Your best bet is the chaintech, but then any pos cheapo board should be able to let you run at stock speeds.
 
Darth_Fluffy said:
I'm pretty sure that x800 and 6800 cards are too expensive for you either way, but they aren't exactly a good buy. The best of the previous generation match them, or more in some cases. These cards are crippled top to bottom...
Click to expand...


UHHHH??? are you saying that a 9800xt and 5950u beat or match a x800 an 6800 non ultra??
:eek: They dont, the 5950 gets killed by the 6800 non ultra as does the 9800xt
 
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