Help, nvme ssd upgrade running slower than SATA!

Discussion in 'SSDs & Data Storage' started by biggles, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Prior to upgrade used Adata sp610 256 gb SATA ssd. Crystal Diskmark v 6.0.2 x64 gave these results:
    Read column: 557, 203.5, 134.5, 27.08,
    Write column: 305.7, 237.7, 107.6, 66.79.

    Installed Adata sx8200 nvme ssd and got the following results:
    Read column: 825.7, 149.5, 46.67, 37.21
    Write column: 816.8, 178.1, 45.98, 43.89

    My understanding is that the first row of each column measures sequential results and the others are random results. And that random results are the ones which affect everyday computer responsiveness.

    Gigabyte z97x-sli motherboard is updated to the latest bios. Do I need to change some bios setting to get the nvme ssd to perform at its max speed?

    Oh, and I learned running a z97 board with an nvme ssd is not that smart. Limited to only 10 Gb/s (gigabit, NOT gigabyte, did not understand the critical importance of upper vs lower case for byte vs bit). My understanding is that newer motherboards can reach 32 Gb/s and fully utilize the nvme speed. According to the Gigabyte website the m.2 will give 10 Gb/s vs 6 Gb/s for SATA. So it seems the nvme ssd should be giving a 67% performance increase over SATA (10/6 = 1.67).
     
  2. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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  3. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...e=pcie_m.2_adapter-_-9SIA4RE5AU2769-_-Product

    Would this $10 adapter allow the nvme ssd to achieve its full speed? It says PCIE X4 8GB/s. The sx8200 has max sequential read/write speeds of 3200 MB/s and 1700 MB/s according to amazon.com. If my math is right, 8 GB/s is 8000 MB/s which is higher than 3200 and 1700.

    If I understand Jim's reply, this means the nvme is running slow due to the SATA ssd still being installed in the system. So removing the SATA ssd would speed up the nvme ssd.
     
  4. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    I would have hoped that someone with more smarts than me would have responded by now.

    I would give that $10 adapter a try. It should give you much better speeds.
     
  5. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Okay, with a m.2 to pcie adapter the sequential numbers improved, but some other benchmarks are still below the sata ssd:
    Read column: 1331, 196.1, 46.41, 38.56
    Write column: 1212.1, 157.1, 42.33, 40.13

    What am I missing here? It seems hard to believe that this model nvme ssd would perform this poorly.
     
  6. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

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    It should be full speed as long as you have it in a slot where it is getting the full PCIe 3.0 x4 bandwidth like the secondary graphics card slot (I don't have a diagram of the electrical breakdown of your board's PCIe lanes in front of me). And assuming that your drive or adapter isn't defective.
     
  7. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    https://www.legitreviews.com/adata-xpg-sx8200-m-2-ssd-review-480gb-model-tested_206131/4
    My benchmark is way below these, not good.

    Other than low benchmarks, is there some other way to determine if the Adata sx8200 is defective?

    The pcie card is plugged into the secondary graphics card slot on the motherboard. Based on this gigabyte spec page, the 1070 is plugged into pciex16 and the m.2 adapter card is plugged into pciex8.
    https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-Z97X-SLI-rev-10#sp

    Would it be worth trying to swap places for the gtx 1070 and the m.2 adapter card?

    I am starting to think that Z97 support for nvme drives is just not very good. I have also posted over at Gigabyte forums. If a solution emerges I will report back here in case others have these problems in the future.

    Perhaps I should also post on reddit or other tech boards since this problem seems so peculiar and rare that it may be difficult to pinpoint the problem.
     
  8. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    Yes, by all means post anywhere you can think of, someone has had your identical problem and knows what's causing it.
    I seriously doubt there is a hardware problem with the Adata drive.

    The PCIEX8 slot shares bandwidth with the PCIEX16 slot. When the PCIEX8 slot is populated, the PCIEX16 slot will operate at up to x8 mode. Swapping the gpu with the nvme may not gain you anything.
    You may be getting all the speed your motherboard is capable of giving. But don't quote me on that.

    Read the motherboards manual, understand how it handles and divides up PCI bandwidth. Read everything you can on your chipset and PCIe 3.0.
    In the end you will be able to teach a class on the subject.
    Sorry I could not be of any more help but I hope you get it figured out and look forward to your post explaining either what fixed it or what the issue is.

    Here is a little info (ignore that it is about sli) https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-crossfire-nvidia-sli-multi-gpu,2678-5.html
    http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3524814/question-pcie-lanes-gpu.html
    https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  9. Dermen

    Dermen Limp Gawd

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  10. jrweis

    jrweis Gawd

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    Don't know if this is your problem or not but when running Samsung or Intel NVMe SSD's you need to use the Samsung or Intel drivers and not Microsoft's to get full throughput.
    Might want to install Adata's toolbox and run the diagnostic tests!
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  11. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    Adata toolbox sounds like a good choice.
     
  12. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes I did try the adata toolbox before posting here. Ssd alignment is correct I emailed gigabyte tech support today as well

    Couple more ideas. I can try turning off xmp profiles in the bios for the ram. Also, the drive was cloned from the sata ssd. I can try a fresh windows install. Will hold off to hear from gigabyte first though since that's time consuming
     
  13. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    What driver is it using, not that I think it would cause the discrepancy you're seeing.;)
     
  14. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Whatever is built into Windows 10. What are the other options regarding nvme drivers? And where would I go to download them? I run a program called Driverbooster to keep drivers up to date across various components.
     
  15. jrweis

    jrweis Gawd

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    I don't think Adata has written a dedicated driver for their NVMe SSD's, so you are stuck using the Microsoft driver. I would highly recommend that you do a secure erase (must be done in another computer as you are using this as a boot drive) and reinstall Windows from scratch. Because of your boards M.2 slot limitations you have to use the adapter in a PCIe slot. You will want to go into the Bios and make sure that the slot you have your drive in is set to PCIe Gen.3. I think the default is auto or PCIe Gen. 2. I am unable to determine if the adapter you bought is capable of 32Gb/s. I have used only the Asus Mini cards in the past that I know support 32Gb/s.
    After the install you can use the Toolbox to optimize the drive setting, etc.
    All these suggestions are based on you previously having the latest Bios (F10b) installed on you mobo and the latest firmware for the Adata drive.
    Another recommendation about your use of DriveBooster. All these programs are great to let you know if you have driver updates available, but never use it to update the driver. Always go to the manufacturers web site & download the drivers from them for installation!
     
  16. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    Why recommend a secure erase when the issue is throughput. It should not matter what's installed on the drive, or does it?

    You can find the driver in device manager. link has a pic, your sys may be different. https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Deskt...Pro-is-using-Samsung-NVME-driver/td-p/5814963
    And as for driverbooster, I'd ditch it and do everything manually. It might be legit but I've had malwarebytes flag on similar products installed on customers computers.
     
  17. jrweis

    jrweis Gawd

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    I recommended a secure erase because the drive was originally cloned. Not a fresh install. Too much junk copied over from old drive!
     
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  18. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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  19. jrweis

    jrweis Gawd

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    A re-install would be your best bet especially since you did an upgrade from 8.1 to 10. You should be able to just install from a fresh download of Win 10 (this gets you the latest release of Win 10 to avoid a lengthy update process) via the link in your previous post (burn a DVD if you have an optical drive or make a USB stick.Whole process is done with MS's media creation tool). Windows should activate automatically, but if it doesn't, just use the 8.1 key (should be on a label on your computer). If you are running Win 10 home I would suggest that you buy a new key of Win 10 Pro from one of the sellers on the (H)ard. {I have had real good luck buying from: ickywu}. Win 10 Pro has more options over how Windows update works. That alone would make it worth spending the $20.
    Just make sure you go to Gigabyte's web site & download all the latest drivers for your mobo to install after Windows. If Bios isn't the newest version, do a Bios update prior to the re-install of Win 10!
    Sounds a little intimidating but it really is a fairly simple (though time consuming) process and will give you the best chance of a smooth running computer!
     
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  20. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    I did the Windows reinstall and the Crystaldiskmark results are still poor. The reinstall gave 3 options: keep personal files and apps, keep personal files only, keep nothing. I chose option 1. Should I have chosen 2 or 3 instead to make the install "clean"?
     
  21. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    The reinstall probably will not speed up an nvme benchmark.
     
  22. Woot910

    Woot910 n00b

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    So I downloaded your manual and nowhere in the manual is 'nvme' explicity mentioned. You do realize the m.2 slot comes in 2 flavors, right? (NVME and SATA). Thinking you have an NVME drive which your motherboard doesn't support.
     
  23. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Woot, according to this page on the Gigabyte website the board started supporting nvme drives with the F7 bios update. My board is currently running bios F9. Anyway, that is a reasonable hypothesis that the Gigabyte Z97X-SLI simply does not support this particular nvme ssd.

    Worst upgrade ever. Also a warning to others with Z97 boards to consider the risks of upgrading to an nvme ssd before moving forward.

    At this point it seems the options to get the nvme ssd up to full speed would be to either:
    1. Swap in another Z97 board and hope it supports the Adata nvme drive (risky, might have similar problems),
    2. Upgrade cpu, motherboard, ram. The newer boards would have a very high chance of working properly with the Adata nvme ssd. I am thinking about a Ryzen 2600, 16 gb ddr4 ram, and an X470 motherboard. That seems to be the bang for the buck system these days. I know that Ryzen is not the best for gaming vs Intel, but I only game at 1080p with a 60 hz monitor.

    I will probably post in another forum for advice on parts for option 2 above. Leaning in that direction as other options appear to be exhausted at this point.
     
  24. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    Or just use the drive as is. It's still mongo fast.
    And You can always toss it into a new system when you get the upgrade itch.
    TLDR
    Chances are you'd never notice the difference in daily use.
     
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  25. SvenBent

    SvenBent 2[H]4U

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    None of these.
    You should have re partitoend and reformated the drive then reisntall from external media.
    You did;t recreate your partion or logical disk layout in anyway. You just recoppied files in.
     
  26. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Oh, I thought the Windows Media Creation Tool would give a "clean" install. Now, I do have a DVD created from the Windows Media Creation Tool. Is it possible to format the Adata nvme ssd and then do a "clean" Windows 10 install from this DVD?

    What are the steps involved in order to do this process of repartitioning, reformatting, and reinstalling? Obviously, the Windows Media Creation Tool is not the proper method then.
     
  27. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    If the nvme ssd would run as fast as the sata ssd that would be okay. Not great, but okay. But since the random reads are actually lower it is running slower. I realize it is not a huge difference, but we are on hardocp after all. And I admit to being picky about computer performance.
     
  28. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    If you were hard you'd know what the reason was for the nvme drive not performing as you'd expect, just saying. ;)
     
  29. jrweis

    jrweis Gawd

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    You have yet to do a full secure erase (will have to be done in another computer as you are using it as a boot drive) of the Adata drive and a full clean re-install of windows. What you effectively did was an upgrade of your existing Windows 10.
    See my 9am post from yesterday and my 8:58am post of Thursday!
     
  30. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Question, does it matter which drive the benchmarking program is run from? Is it advised to run a benchmark on C: drive with the program stored and run from, say, D: drive? If you attempted to run a benchmark program on the C: drive and the program was stored on the C: drive it just occured to me that this might somehow slow down the drive performance and test results.
     
  31. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This should not matter
     
  32. Dermen

    Dermen Limp Gawd

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    I doubt it would make any difference, but you could put your old SSD back in and boot from it. Secure Erase the Adata and test it as a fresh, empty drive which will give you the highest numbers. You can also then keep trying different things without worrying about messing up your OS.

    Do you have 240GB version? It is slower than the 512/1TB models.

    Check to make sure write caching is turned on. You do this in device manager -> drive properties -> Policies
     
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