Help Me Watercool my TV?

Zarathustra[H]

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Hey,

Now that I got your attention with a seemingly silly title, let me tall you what this is about.

A while back in the monster 4k Samsung TV Thread I was talking about how I love my 48" Samsung JS9000 as a monitor, but that the fan noise coming from the One Connect Box annoyed me.

On many Samsung TV's the screen is just a dumb panel with a backlight. All the processing and connections occur on the "One Connect Box" which plugs into the back of the screen. The One Connect box gets its power from the screen using its one proprietary cable.

It looks like this:

samsungsek3500.jpg


The One Connect box has a relatively quiet, but annoying whiny fan in it to keep it cool, which comes on whenever the TV is on. Depending on background noise I sometimes don't even notice it, but other times it annoys the hell out of me, especially since I spend so much time and effort on keeping my desktop quiet.

Back when I was first setting up the TV and noticed the sound and posted about being annoyed by it, munkle (In jest I believe) suggested I should water cool it.

Well since you are on hardforum, I think you should water cool them.

I had a laugh at the concept and moved on.

Now almost a year later, I'm actually building my first water cooling loop, and I was thinking, what if I were to take that board out of its enclosure, and stick a block on it? Maybe it's not that crazy after all?

So, here is what it looks like on the inside:



As you can see, there is the little annoying blower fan, blowing into that black shroud that covers the parts that need cooling.




Under that HSF I found these three chips (the ones with heat spreaders) covered in silver thermal paste. I presume the other components don't need cooling.

Since I probably don't need too crazy cooling performance, and definitely don't want to add too much restriction to my loop, I was thinking maybe I could just use one large low tech block to cover all three chips and attach it with thermal tape.

Unfortunately there are tall components inbetween the chips, so any shared block would have to be especially machined like the original heatsink to touch them all.

It looks like this:


I'm thinking I can just remove the shroud and fan from that heatsink, and attach a waterblock to it, effectively using it as a heat spreader. Again, this is because I probably don't need any fantastic cooling performance.

It looks like this:




So, if I flip it over, and take off the shroud, this is what I've got:




And with the fan removed...




Unfortunately those crappy-ass heatsink fins seem welded to the heat spreader. I could dremel them off, but then I won't exactly get a smooth surface where I can attach a water block.

Again, since I only need basic cooling, nothing like a desktop CPU, I wonder if I could just attach a basic block to the top of the heatsink and be on my merry way.

What do you guys think?

What block would be suited for this task? I'm thinking it doesn't need to have fantastic thermal properties. Basic cooling is fine, but I am looking for it to be copper or nickel, and have low flow resistance, and not cost too much.

Any ideas?

I'm open to any suggestions and/or thoughts regarding this.
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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On a side note, I'm only trying this because I happen to have a spare One Connect box. I wouldn't risk my one and only one this way.

I got it after I convinced Samsung to RMA my initial one because of the fan noise (I thought mine was defective) but when I got the replacement it sounded the same.

I kept the return box in my car for weeks, and kept forgetting to drop it off at UPS, and when I finally did, the shipping label had expired. I emailed Samsung's RMA department back about what I should do about it, and I never heard back from them, so I'm assuming they don't want it back.
 

CaptNumbNutz

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My suggestion would be to get smaller individual water blocks meant for chipsets, attach them via thermal tape, then attach the tubing in series. If you get someone to machine a water block for you, then by all means do that.

From the looks of that heatspreader/heatsink, its covering 4 chips: the large silver one with Samsung on it, the large black square one, then the 2 small silver squares on the left.

If the watercooling doesn't pan out for you, then I would buy small chipset heatsinks, cut a hole for a low speed 120mm fan with some additional vent holes and be done with it.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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My suggestion would be to get smaller individual water blocks meant for chipsets, attach them via thermal tape, then attach the tubing in series. If you get someone to machine a water block for you, then by all means do that.

I thought of this, but they are [pretty close so there would be a lot of tight bends, and I'd probably make the loop much more restrictive by adding so many of them.

From the looks of that heatspreader/heatsink, its covering 4 chips: the large silver one with Samsung on it, the large black square one, then the 2 small silver squares on the left.
The large black square one does not appear to make any contact with the heat spreader, and when I took the spreader off, it had no thermal paste on it, whereas the three silver ones did. The three silver ones also line up with the machined contact points on the heat spreader.

If the watercooling doesn't pan out for you, then I would buy small chipset heatsinks, cut a hole for a low speed 120mm fan with some additional vent holes and be done with it.

This is probably the more sane way of going about it.

Thats what I would do. I wonder how good you could get it to look though.

I'm not too concerned with appearance. This is only used for my computer at my desk. The box is actually hidden behind the end of the desk right now (I was hoping that would help block some of the sound, it didn't). So it isn't visible at all.

Appreciate the suggestion!
 

CaptNumbNutz

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Thats what I would do. I wonder how good you could get it to look though.
If done well, it won't look any worse than a fan mod on a router.
Here's a well done example from our own forums:
image.png


The large black square one does not appear to make any contact with the heat spreader, and when I took the spreader off, it had no thermal paste on it, whereas the three silver ones did. The three silver ones also line up with the machined contact points on the heat spreader.
Interesting. It looked like the fins of that heatsink sat directly on top of that black square.

Nevertheless, I doubt it would hurt anything by cooling it. :D
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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Yeah, this should work quite nicely.

120mm won't work, it's too big, but a 92mm ought to fit perfectly.

Not sure how I'll power it though, but possibly using a 5v USB adapter, as the thing does have USB ports that I am not using.

Wont make for as funny of a story as "I watercooled my TV", but it is likely a better solution.
 
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DWolvin

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I'm still pulling for little chipset blocks and loops of tube everywhere- it might look crazy / awesome / terrifying sitting on the back edge of your desk...
 

modi123

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d00d.. submerge it all in a mineral oil bath! No need for pansy heatsinks.
 

Betaboy1983

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As much as I'd like to see it water cooled, I think a new fan mod would be the way to go especially if it's hidden behind your desk.

Otherwise get some blocks in series as posted before. Pain in the ass, maybe.. Cool though!
 

CaptNumbNutz

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Yeah, this should work quite nicely.

120mm won't work, it's too big, but a 92mm ought to fit perfectly.

Not sure how I'll power it though, but possibly using a 5v USB adapter, as the thing does have USB ports that I am not using.

Wont make for as funny of a story as "I watercooled my TV", but it is likely a better solution.
Search for 5v fans some will even come pre-wired with a USB plug. 80mm and 120mm tend to be the most common sizes, and I believe a 5v 80mm will do nicely.

The other option is to splice directly into the power cable for that dinky blower fan. I'm not sure what voltage it runs at, so you may want to use a multi-meter on it or try googling any part numbers you see on the fan's label. My hunch is it too is 5v like many fans meant for laptop cooling and the blue wire is the tach reading.
 
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buzzbomb

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I don't think you need custom-machined blocks, you can try these. I think they make passthrough style ones too, if I find them I'll post it.

EDIT: well, these are interesting anyway...haven't found any that have the inlet and outlet on opposite sides yet. And I don't know if you've thought about how to affix the blocks to the chips yet, but there's thermal conductive epoxies like this...it's even electrically insulating so you don't have to worry about it getting on leads/traces/etc.
 
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drklu

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Could you get away with using better thermal paste on the chips and installing a in line speed reducer to the fan? Not sure if it would get too hot but maybe you could lower the fan speed enough to be less annoying.
 
D

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The OEM HS has very little surface area, it would be easy to double or even triple this, which might make active cooling not even needed, however adding a fan would not hurt. I would not bother with a USB fan, you have a fan already with a fan header, assuming this fan is 12v, find out how much current it pulls and find a 80 or 92mm fan that draws the same, splice it into the old fans cable, cut out a hole in the case and install, it is clean and self contained than. As for HS, lots of options from older CPU HS to old north bridge/chipset HS, something like this would work and looks like it should fit, just remove the mounting hardware and use thermal tape to attach. If that is to big there are lots of other options. Be sure the fan you get is a low speed unit, such as this.
 

cyclone3d

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One thought that came to mind is even though only a few chips are making contact with the heatspreader, some of the other stuff might need the airflow that is going through the case in order to keep them cool enough.

Personally, I would just mod it up with a bigger fan and have part of the fan nod ducted to the heatsink itself, so some of the airflow goes inside the case to help keep other components cool.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Search for 5v fans some will even come pre-wired with a USB plug. 80mm and 120mm tend to be the most common sizes, and I believe a 5v 80mm will do nicely.

The other option is to splice directly into the power cable for that dinky blower fan. I'm not sure what voltage it runs at, so you may want to use a multi-meter on it or try googling any part numbers you see on the fan's label. My hunch is it too is 5v like many fans meant for laptop cooling and the blue wire is the tach reading.


I actually picked up something like this and just lopped off the round connector, and wired the 5vdc+ and ground wires to the 12vdc+ and ground wires of a 3pin fan connector.

I'm just going to use a regular 12v fan. I have never encountered a 12v fan that won't start spinning at 5v. The good old "swap the 5V and 12V lines in the molex connector" trick we used to use to control fan noise back in the day before there were PC fan controllers. (Just remember to swap them back before plugging anything else in :p )

I ordered one of these fans for the job. Since it is marketed as a silent fan to begin with at 12v, it might wind up being a little too slow to keep things cool at 5V. I'll see when I get it.

I also got some 35x35mm and 20x20mm heatsinks and some thermal tape to stick them on with.

I figure I'll just cut a hole for the fan with my dremel and screw it in place. There is already a vent in the side/bottom of the case that should allow the air to exhaust.

It would have been an interesting project (and a funny story) to water cool this thing, but ultimately it seemed like it had more negatives than it was worth (including adding unnecessary flow restrictions and complications to my loop)
 

CaptNumbNutz

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I'm just going to use a regular 12v fan. I have never encountered a 12v fan that won't start spinning at 5v. The good old "swap the 5V and 12V lines in the molex connector" trick we used to use to control fan noise back in the day before there were PC fan controllers. (Just remember to swap them back before plugging anything else in :p )

I ordered one of these fans for the job. Since it is marketed as a silent fan to begin with at 12v, it might wind up being a little too slow to keep things cool at 5V. I'll see when I get it.
The only reason I recommended a 5v fan is that it is guaranteed to start at 5v. A lot of 12v fans have a starting voltage (minimum needed to start spinning) somewhere around 7-8 volts but will still freely spin at 5v once the fan's momentum gets going. I would hate to see you get the wrong fan and it pull too much current trying to start at 5v and burn out your USB port. That being said, every fan is different and I have seen quite a few 12v fans with starting voltages in the 4-5v range and some that would do it despite their rated specs on paper.

It sounds like you are aware of this potential issue, but I figured I would mention it for anyone else reading this thread wanting to attempt something similar. Carry on with the mod, everything else you showed in your post looks perfect. I want pics when it's done. :D You may consider cross-posting it in that Samsung 4k thread too, as I bet you aren't the only one with this problem.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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The only reason I recommended a 5v fan is that it is guaranteed to start at 5v. A lot of 12v fans have a starting voltage (minimum needed to start spinning) somewhere around 7-8 volts but will still freely spin at 5v once the fan's momentum gets going. I would hate to see you get the wrong fan and it pull too much current trying to start at 5v and burn out your USB port. That being said, every fan is different and I have seen quite a few 12v fans with starting voltages in the 4-5v range and some that would do it despite their rated specs on paper.

It sounds like you are aware of this potential issue, but I figured I would mention it for anyone else reading this thread wanting to attempt something similar. Carry on with the mod, everything else you showed in your post looks perfect. I want pics when it's done. :D

I tested it with a USB based cell phone charger and a variety of 120mm and 140mm fans I had around my parts bin, and every one of them started up just fine, so I have high hopes that the 92mm fan I ordered will as well. I just hope that at 5V it will be fast enough to cool everything. Worst case I'll have to go looking for another fan.

The hub says it pulls 0.07A at 12v. Even if it pulled as much wattage as it does at 12v (which it won't) that would be 0.168A at 5v. That's well within the capabilities of a USB port. The USB3 port on the box is labeled at 1.0A, and the USB2.0 ports on the side are labeled at 0.5A, so I feel fairly confident it won't burn out the port.

I had hoped to find a slim 92mm fan for the job, as it would probably be more aesthetically pleasing, but there don't seem to be too many of them out there. This one will have to do.
 

CaptNumbNutz

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I tested it with a USB based cell phone charger and a variety of 120mm and 140mm fans I had around my parts bin, and every one of them started up just fine, so I have high hopes that the 92mm fan I ordered will as well. I just hope that at 5V it will be fast enough to cool everything. Worst case I'll have to go looking for another fan.

The hub says it pulls 0.07A at 12v. Even if it pulled as much wattage as it does at 12v (which it won't) that would be 0.168A at 5v. That's well within the capabilities of a USB port. The USB3 port on the box is labeled at 1.0A, and the USB2.0 ports on the side are labeled at 0.5A, so I feel fairly confident it won't burn out the port.

I had hoped to find a slim 92mm fan for the job, as it would probably be more aesthetically pleasing, but there don't seem to be too many of them out there. This one will have to do.
I was about to edit my prior post but you replied already.

Just a heads up, Fractal lists that fan with 6v startup voltage.
Silent Series R3 92mm

But, as we both mentioned, many fans will do 5v despite their printed specs. :D
Good luck.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I was about to edit my prior post but you replied already.

Just a heads up, Fractal lists that fan with 6v startup voltage.
Silent Series R3 92mm

But, as we both mentioned, many fans will do 5v despite their printed specs. :D
Good luck.

Just got the fan today.

Definitely spins up at 5v, but there isn't much airflow. Holding my hand under it it is barely perceptible.

I may have to pick up a faster spinning fan.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Just got the fan today.

Definitely spins up at 5v, but there isn't much airflow. Holding my hand under it it is barely perceptible.

I may have to pick up a faster spinning fan.

Hmm. Unsurprisingly there is a lot smaller selection of 92mm fans to choose from than 120 or 140mm.

Maybe I should just use a small, cheap (~$3?) 12v step-up voltage regulator? I would tap into the connector where the original fan (presumably 12v) connects, but since it draws so little power, I don't want to risk burning anything out...
 

pendragon1

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all you need its a 12v potentiometer. have any old electronics that you could rip a volume knob out of?
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Carry on with the mod, everything else you showed in your post looks perfect. I want pics when it's done. :D You may consider cross-posting it in that Samsung 4k thread too, as I bet you aren't the only one with this problem.

So I spent some time with it today. Unfortunately forgot to take pics with the cover off, but I can open again later. Here is the exterior:

28323011081_25da0bca73_c.jpg


It's not my prettiest work. I was tired and slipped a couple of times with the Dremel, but it looks OK to me, and its not a big deal since it hides behind my monitors anyway/

I found that - through sheer dumb luck - the power specs for the fan I bought were identical (12v 0.07A) to the little blower fan that it came with, so I wound up lopping off the non-standard power connector from the blower fan, and soldered it to a 3pin fan connector, making my own little adapter. I installed the fan with one of those fan stepdown resistors just to make sure it wouldn't be too loud. I can't hear it at all, and it appears to be cool enough. I've had no problems as of yet.

I'm pretty happy with the mod!
 

CaptNumbNutz

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So I spent some time with it today. Unfortunately forgot to take pics with the cover off, but I can open again later. Here is the exterior:

28323011081_25da0bca73_c.jpg


It's not my prettiest work. I was tired and slipped a couple of times with the Dremel, but it looks OK to me, and its not a big deal since it hides behind my monitors anyway/

I found that - through sheer dumb luck - the power specs for the fan I bought were identical (12v 0.07A) to the little blower fan that it came with, so I wound up lopping off the non-standard power connector from the blower fan, and soldered it to a 3pin fan connector, making my own little adapter. I installed the fan with one of those fan stepdown resistors just to make sure it wouldn't be too loud. I can't hear it at all, and it appears to be cool enough. I've had no problems as of yet.

I'm pretty happy with the mod!
Hell ya. Love it.
 

chameleoneel

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I had hoped to find a slim 92mm fan for the job, as it would probably be more aesthetically pleasing, but there don't seem to be too many of them out there. This one will have to do.
14mm thick
Amazon.com: Noctua 92 x 14 mm Low-Profile Cooling Fan with A-Series Blades (NF-A9x14): Computers & Accessories

it seems pricey, but the accessories it comes with, would practically pay for the fan. I just put one on a video card that I crammed into an SFF case. A situation where a typical 25mm thick fan, would have only just barely fit. But with no room to draw are.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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14mm thick
Amazon.com: Noctua 92 x 14 mm Low-Profile Cooling Fan with A-Series Blades (NF-A9x14): Computers & Accessories

it seems pricey, but the accessories it comes with, would practically pay for the fan. I just put one on a video card that I crammed into an SFF case. A situation where a typical 25mm thick fan, would have only just barely fit. But with no room to draw are.

Yeah, I did come across that one, and I do love Noctua fans, they are simply the best, but I just couldn't make myself put the ugly tan and brown fan on the outside of the box, even with it being hidden behind my screens :p

As it turned out, I am happy with the fan I chose, because just like the blower fan it replaced, it is 12V 0.07A, which means I can use the fan header on the board without worrying about drawing too much current.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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The fan does seem to be doing a good enough job to cool everything, but when I put my hand on the case after it being on for a couple of hours yesterday, it did feel a little warm. I'm probably going to open it up, and remove the fan resistor wire I used, and see if it is still inaudible to me without it. A little more air flow probably wouldn't hurt.
 

chameleoneel

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Yeah, I did come across that one, and I do love Noctua fans, they are simply the best, but I just couldn't make myself put the ugly tan and brown fan on the outside of the box, even with it being hidden behind my screens :p
Slightly off topic: but Noctua showed off some black/red & black fans, recently.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Slightly off topic: but Noctua showed off some black/red & black fans, recently.

I hadn't seen those. Probably not for me. I tend to like subtle/subdued colors. (Well, subtle subdued colors that aren't brown :p I hate brown) A nice thin clear fan would probably have been ideal for this project, but I couldn't find one of those...

There are some things that look good in brown. Wood, leather, chocolate, hair, skintones, eyes, but outside of that, nothing should ever be brown IMHO. it's the color of poop.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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So I spent some time with it today. Unfortunately forgot to take pics with the cover off, but I can open again later. Here is the exterior:

28323011081_25da0bca73_c.jpg


It's not my prettiest work. I was tired and slipped a couple of times with the Dremel, but it looks OK to me, and its not a big deal since it hides behind my monitors anyway/

I found that - through sheer dumb luck - the power specs for the fan I bought were identical (12v 0.07A) to the little blower fan that it came with, so I wound up lopping off the non-standard power connector from the blower fan, and soldered it to a 3pin fan connector, making my own little adapter. I installed the fan with one of those fan stepdown resistors just to make sure it wouldn't be too loud. I can't hear it at all, and it appears to be cool enough. I've had no problems as of yet.

I'm pretty happy with the mod!


As promised, the pics of the innards. (only cell pics, didn't feel like whipping out the DSLR.


First, the board with heatsinks on it:



And my soldered adapter:



Red (+12v) to red (+12v)
Black (Ground) to Black (Ground)
Yellow (RPM) to blue (RPM, I hope? It works...)

I wound up taking the fan resistor out. Still can't hear this fan, so it wasn't needed. Will get some more airflow this way.

And with that I'm calling this project done...

...though I might pick up a fan grill just to avoid wires winding up in the fan...
 
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DWolvin

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Very nice- and I'd agree about the grill, stuck a finger in my Riing 140's bleeding my rig last year. Not fun, but no blood surprisingly...
 
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I'm also doing this mod right now with the help of the thread starter.

My one connect box did not have any kind of cooling block! Only the tiny annoying fan on top of the CPU (I guess).
I have the 65" JS9505 backlit curved model.


I put heatsinks as in the pics above.
Connected the fan. (Same fan).

I even tried to run it without the fan connected but the TV complained that the fan was not working and shut it down after 3 minutes.
 

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