Help me decide which one to buy...

This is sort of beating the dead horse:

Don't buy technology on any promises of what it will do.
Buy technology based on what is can actually do.

Virtual Reality is still a fresh new baby out of the oven. It's been released to the public, and now decently price (If you have the hardware). There's going to be upgrades but I really doubt you'd be able to upgrade the headset with individual parts. Better tracking, wireless, better resolution screens, different power consumption, maybe new cable connections. Sure there's a chance... but there's also a chance that I'll with the lottery and be able to spend the money on getting a developer to create a ROBOTECH VR Game that's good. ...Even if it was poorly received and took all my money - it would be the best damned ROBOTECH game ever! Anywho. Yeah. There's a chance you'd be able to upgrade it.


Edit: Come to think about it. Sonic Mania is actually a good game. And I'd never thought I'd live to see that little guy be in a game that's fun again. So I guess stranger things can happen.
 
Supercharged_Z06 said:
LOL! Seriously?! The hardware for both the Rift and the Vive is purpose built and there is nothing “upgradeable” about either HMD. When VR Gen 2 finally arrives, we’ll all be upgrading by buying brand new hardware that replaces what was before. Your statement that you “Felt more like buying an upgradeable PC” by purchasing a Vive over a Rift actually is pretty ludicrous. There is NOTHING upgradeable as to the core HMD hardware for either headset - I.E. what feeds your eyeballs and ears. I own/use both and can assure you that they are both pretty much one-offs like buying a PC monitor - there is no upgrading, it’s a sunk cost/investment for both HMDs. The deluxe head strap for the Vive is just a convenience enhancement to bring it on par with the Rift... it does nothing to the underlying tech. Same goes for the TPcast wireless add-on, which just gets rid of a cable, but the underlying VR tech still remains untouched.

The Lighthouses/cameras and controllers will most likely be reusable perhaps, but given the advances made in the next couple of years, I seriously doubt they will stay as they are either... so they aren’t “upgradeable”... more like replaceable.

With all that said, I am looking forward to Gen 2 VR and will gladly buy in to it when it arrives.
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Except that PC Monitors are upgradeable...
When you upgrade your video card, do you keep the existing one? No, you replace it. The difference is that you don't need to replace the rest of the computer to do it. The new LG headset coming out, wanna bet that it'll work with the Vive Lighthouses and controllers? SteamVR feels like a PC ecosystem and Oculus feels like a console ecosystem. I'm sorry if you don't agree but it doesn't make my statement "ludicrous". It's my opinion, and even if I'm completely wrong it just means if I buy a Gen 2 VR system I'll pay the same as everyone else. But if I'm right, then I'll end up saving some money as I replace components as I see fit.
 
Ludic said:
Except that PC Monitors are upgradeable...
When you upgrade your video card, do you keep the existing one? No, you replace it. The difference is that you don't need to replace the rest of the computer to do it. The new LG headset coming out, wanna bet that it'll work with the Vive Lighthouses and controllers? SteamVR feels like a PC ecosystem and Oculus feels like a console ecosystem. I'm sorry if you don't agree but it doesn't make my statement "ludicrous". It's my opinion, and even if I'm completely wrong it just means if I buy a Gen 2 VR system I'll pay the same as everyone else. But if I'm right, then I'll end up saving some money as I replace components as I see fit.
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I can't wait to see an example of an upgradeable PC monitor.

The HMD itself is sealed shut. TPCast is coming out for both Vive and Rift, and we already know the new v2.0 lighthouses will not be compatible with the current Vive without an entirely new revision of the HMD. So, what exactly do you expect to be upgradable/replaceable on the Vive?
 
Ludic said:
Except that PC Monitors are upgradeable...
When you upgrade your video card, do you keep the existing one? No, you replace it. The difference is that you don't need to replace the rest of the computer to do it. The new LG headset coming out, wanna bet that it'll work with the Vive Lighthouses and controllers? SteamVR feels like a PC ecosystem and Oculus feels like a console ecosystem. I'm sorry if you don't agree but it doesn't make my statement "ludicrous". It's my opinion, and even if I'm completely wrong it just means if I buy a Gen 2 VR system I'll pay the same as everyone else. But if I'm right, then I'll end up saving some money as I replace components as I see fit.
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The LG headset isn't a Gen 2 headset though. It's built to work with the current lighthouses and controllers. It wouldn't be an "upgrade" for those with a Rift or a Vive. You will be able to swap components out between various gen 1 headsets but what would be the point?

All the major players, Microsoft, HTC, Google, Intel, Oculus have all demonstrated headsets that don't need lighthouses or sensors or cables going to the computer. These will be the Gen 2 headsets.

It will be very sad for the advancement of VR if any of the hardware from Gen 1 headsets is useable by the next generation ones.
 
reaper12 said:
The LG headset isn't a Gen 2 headset though. It's built to work with the current lighthouses and controllers. It wouldn't be an "upgrade" for those with a Rift or a Vive. You will be able to swap components out between various gen 1 headsets but what would be the point?

All the major players, Microsoft, HTC, Google, Intel, Oculus have all demonstrated headsets that don't need lighthouses or sensors or cables going to the computer. These will be the Gen 2 headsets.

It will be very sad for the advancement of VR if any of the hardware from Gen 1 headsets is useable by the next generation ones.
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The LG headset is an upgrade in resolution if I've read correctly. I'm treating the HMD exactly as a monitor. I'm assuming at one point I will be able to buy an HMD with upgraded resolution, refresh rate, etc that will continue to work with the rest of my system as it is today. If those vendors have managed to do that without lighthouses and wireless, and it still works with SteamVR, then great!

I could theoretically be still using the same computer I build 10 years ago with the same monitor. I could be using that same computer with a brand new monitor I bought today if I wanted to. I could use my computer today with that same monitor from 10 years ago... I still have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick from about 10 years ago that I can still use today.
My point is that the "next gen Oculus" is going to be like going from an Xbox 360 to an Xbox One instead of the "next gen Vive" which will be more like building a new computer with your Steam library. I feel like Oculus and Facebook are treating it much more like a console than HTC and Valve are with SteamVR and the Vive.

At some point the Vive (and the Rift) are going to be obsolete. Anyone who deals with technology knows that. But no, it won't be "sad" for VR if the current hardware is usable in future generations. And if I'm completely 100% wrong about it, worst case scenario for me is that I have to pay exactly the same amount as anyone else for whatever new system exists.
 
Ludic said:
My point is that the "next gen Oculus" is going to be like going from an Xbox 360 to an Xbox One instead of the "next gen Vive" which will be more like building a new computer with your Steam library.
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But you don't know that. You can be entirely, 100% wrong about all of this. So it isn't wise to base a purchasing decision on it. That's like buying a Z270 motherboard and assuming it will be compatible with Coffee Lake just because it's using the same socket.

When a new monitor comes out that has features my current monitor doesn't have and I want it, I buy a new monitor. There is no indication that things will be any different for any VR API, or platform.
 
Ludic said:
I'm assuming... I feel...
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Well there is a solid argument.

E6lTJZH.jpg


There is no evidence that Valve will stop working with the Oculus SDK any time in the near future, or that Oculus will leave the OpenXR group.

Right now, a bunch of people just seem to be bitching about Oculus funded games having an exclusivity period before they are sold through Steam as well as the Oculus store. That's it. Oculus fronts a pile of cash, and only they get to sell the games for a while, see SuperHot VR.

Wah.

Still don't know how we got to "big corporation A is a bunch of saints" and "big corporation B is EVIL."

Whatever, now it's time for you to set up an Oculus account and come join us in some games of Echo Arena. It's free you know.
 
TheSmJ said:
But you don't know that. You can be entirely, 100% wrong about all of this. So it isn't wise to base a purchasing decision on it. That's like buying a Z270 motherboard and assuming it will be compatible with Coffee Lake just because it's using the same socket.

When a new monitor comes out that has features my current monitor doesn't have and I want it, I buy a new monitor. There is no indication that things will be any different for any VR API, or platform.
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Decibel said:
Well there is a solid argument.

There is no evidence that Valve will stop working with the Oculus SDK any time in the near future, or that Oculus will leave the OpenXR group.

Right now, a bunch of people just seem to be bitching about Oculus funded games having an exclusivity period before they are sold through Steam as well as the Oculus store. That's it. Oculus fronts a pile of cash, and only they get to sell the games for a while, see SuperHot VR.

Wah.

Still don't know how we got to "big corporation A is a bunch of saints" and "big corporation B is EVIL."

Whatever, now it's time for you to set up an Oculus account and come join us in some games of Echo Arena. It's free you know.
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My last sentence admits I could be completely wrong about it. And considering this whole argument was brought about because I have an opinion and you think it's wrong, using how I feel to support my opinion is completely justified.

At the end of the day, I voted with my dollars and bought a Vive. I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying a Rift, but if someone asked me which one they should buy, I would say a Vive, especially with the recent price drop. I don't think any less of anyone who chose a Rift, but at the end of the day between my thoughts on the ecosystem and the mere fact that I don't have to string USB cables out to my tracking devices. I feel like I made the right decision for me.
 
TheSmJ said:
Short and Sweet:

* If cost is any sort of concern for you *and/or* your play area is to be less than ~15'x15', get a Rift.
* If cost is no concern for you *and* your play area is greater than 15'x15', get a Vive.

The Long Answer:

Unlike a year ago, both headsets are too similar to outright say one is better than the other (price aside). The biggest difference between the two is that the Vive's tracking system is capable of working in very large play areas, whereas the Rift is limited to around 15'x15' when four sensors are used (two come with the Rift, so that would require the purchase of two more sensors). Generally speaking, those with play areas 8'x8' or smaller can get away with the two sensors the Rift comes with out of the box. Areas greater than 8'x8' but no more than 12'x12' will want to purchase a 3rd sensor (an extra $60) for roomscale games, and any larger than 12'x12' will benefit from a total of 4 sensors.* It's generally accepted that the Rift's tracking capabilities top out at 15'x15', but I've only seen two users actually test this limit.

Some people claim the Rift is more comfortable than the Vive. Others make the opposite claim. Out of the box, the Rift has a ridgid head strap with built-in headphones and is designed to be easily taken off and put on, while balancing the weight of the HMD itself across your head so it feels lighter than it is. The Vive comes with standard elastic+velcro straps and require you to supply your own headphones (or use the included earbuds), but for an extra $100, HTC now offers a "Deluxe Audio Strap" that functions much like the one on the Rift, with a rigid band and integrated headphones.

The lenses in each headset are different and opinions differ wildly as to which is "better"- but the broad strokes are that the "sweet spot" (that is, the part of the lense that you'll want to look though for things to remain in focus) is larger on the Rift, and the "screen door effect" is minimized, but you lose a few degrees of "field of view" vs. the Vive, which has a smaller "sweet spot", more apparent "screen door effect", but in turn it has a slightly larger field of view, and the colors are considered by many to appear more vibrant than they are in the Rift.

As for controllers: The Oculus Rift's Touch controllers are considered to be more ergonomic and generally all-around better than the stock Vive "wand" controllers by the vast majority of people who have tried both. Valve has been hinting that the new "Knuckles" controllers will be released soon**, but nobody knows exactly when they will be released, or how much they will cost.

Outside of these factors - the Rift can play all VR games, whether they come from Steam or Oculus Home. The Vive can play all games on Steam, and can play Oculus Home games using a hack\mod called "ReVive". The Rift comes with a bunch of high quality games for free, including (but certainly not limited to) Dead and Buried and Robo Recall, while the Vive currently only comes with Star Trek Bridge Crew (but that promotion may have already ended). Both headsets are confirmed to be receiving add-on wireless modules in the near-term.

So that pretty much leaves the overall price of each system. As it stands, the Rift costs $400 for the HMD itself, the Touch controllers and two sensors. Each additional sensor (if you need them) costs an extra $60. The Vive costs $800 for the HMD itself, the wand controllers, and its two "Lighthouse" boxes (analogues to Rift's sensors). The Deluxe Audio Strap costs an extra $100, and while Valve has yet to announce the price of the new Knuckles controllers, I for one would be shocked if they were less than $150, and expect them to be closer to $200.

* These numbers aren't in any way absolute. This is the general consensus based on my own experiences and the experiences of others both posted here and on Reddit over the last few months. Generally speaking, if you plan on playing in an area greater than 8'x8', get a 3rd sensor and see how it is before getting a 4th.

** Valve Time
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Can't say that better myself.
 
They are almost the same but Rift is now much less expensive, have way superior controllers, a little bit better screen and is lighter.
Tracking sueriority of vive over rift is overblown but indeed vive have a little better rooms cale tracking.

I have rift with only 2 front facing sensors and I play most things great. The only game so far that I could not play is accounting
 
With the price of the Rift there's really no reason to go with the Vive. Touch and room scale on the Oculus is VERY good.
 
I can definitely vouch for the Rift. I've had it since June and love it. The touch controllers are awesome and I started out with the 2 sensor setup and had ZERO issues with tracking unless I was facing away from the sensors and my play space was about 8ft x 6ft. Just 2 weeks ago I got my third sensor and I'm blown away again! Completely 100% 360 tracking and my play space is 10ft x 12ft! I also bought 6ft extensions cables for the headset since adding a 3rd sensor made my play space that much bigger
 
So i went with rift.

I just bought longer cables (slow amazon shipping), and a 3rd sensor but im having a bit of a hard setting it up.

They don't say if i need or should put the sensors off of the ground? I'm also not sure what length of straps, or the thing that moves the lenses is good for me, and i didn't get past setting up the room because i had to look at my screen which is sideways, I'll take some time tomorrow to move it around so i can see what im doing.

Any good guides for setup? The 3 minutes I had with the robot were pretty fucking cool after i skipped half of the setup.
 
Sensors high up works best if you are after a room scale tracking setup. I have all my sensors (3) roughly 7.5 feet up, angled down 45 degrees in three corners of the room such that each sensor is aiming at the center of the room's floor. (Two of the sensors should be at opposing corners of the room. )

vr_setup1.jpg
vr_setup2.jpg
vr_setup3.jpg
 
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I've read reports of having sensors upside down caused issues. I can definitely say that I've had 0 problems with my sensors upside down.

Since I have drop ceilings at work (Where I use my rift), I just pried the sensor base into the railing.

I sort of wish the sensors came in white!
 
RogueTadhg said:
I've read reports of having sensors upside down caused issues. I can definitely say that I've had 0 problems with my sensors upside down.

Since I have drop ceilings at work (Where I use my rift), I just pried the sensor base into the railing.

I sort of wish the sensors came in white!
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There used to be an issue with sensors being upside down back around February-March. Newer versions of the Rift drivers fixed the issue.

Mine are all upside down too. They work great.
 
I didn't know when it was. But It made me nervous to try so I thought it was worth to mention just in case anyone else read the same thing. :)
 
How about "none of the above".

VR, at this point, is still too much of a gimmick, and needs several more generations of refinement before you should worry about buying equipment.
 
Chas said:
How about "none of the above".

VR, at this point, is still too much of a gimmick, and needs several more generations of refinement before you should worry about buying equipment.
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That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, it's not true for everyone who has bought a VR headset and certainly not true for me. VR is awesome.

Of course, just like everything, it will only get better with time and I look forward to those improvements in a couple of years time. But, that's not stopping me enjoying VR right now.
 
so far I really like what ive seen, little as its been.

just a few things that have me annoyed/worried that i wont be able to fix.

There is light smearing which i saw online that is a characteristic of both vive and rift.

I thought that my rift was smudged/fogged, but when I went to a dark area I couldn't see it anymore, It's even more annoying than the "smear" and i guess it happens with bright colors as well.

I cant get the headset to be the most comfortable, or the most "correct" for my eyes. Text is hard to read, things could be just a hint less blurry.
 
Did you hit the max or min end stop on the ipd adjuster?
 
Make sure to wear it so the Y part of the strap is as low as possible on the back of your head and adjust the hinge so you're looking strait into the middle of the lenses. Also, looser is generally better, think ball cap, not diving mask.

But yeah, you are going to see artifacts from the lenses and low resolution.

All that seems to go away when it's time to kick ass.
 
Ludic said:
My last sentence admits I could be completely wrong about it. And considering this whole argument was brought about because I have an opinion and you think it's wrong, using how I feel to support my opinion is completely justified.

At the end of the day, I voted with my dollars and bought a Vive. I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying a Rift, but if someone asked me which one they should buy, I would say a Vive, especially with the recent price drop. I don't think any less of anyone who chose a Rift, but at the end of the day between my thoughts on the ecosystem and the mere fact that I don't have to string USB cables out to my tracking devices. I feel like I made the right decision for me.
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The Vive lighthouses aren't cordless. I mean maybe if you have an outlet closer than your computer to the lighthouse you'd have a little less cord (but then if you didn't, you'd have more), either way there are still wires to be run. That's just not a differentiating factor at all imo. Play area, sure. Ecosystem maybe (but right now they both work on both), usb subsystem loading (if it actually caused problems, but I haven't seen it), maybe. But because you have to run different types of cord? How is that even a concern, let alone one of your major ones?
 
DF-1 said:
so far I really like what ive seen, little as its been.

just a few things that have me annoyed/worried that i wont be able to fix.

There is light smearing which i saw online that is a characteristic of both vive and rift.

I thought that my rift was smudged/fogged, but when I went to a dark area I couldn't see it anymore, It's even more annoying than the "smear" and i guess it happens with bright colors as well.

I cant get the headset to be the most comfortable, or the most "correct" for my eyes. Text is hard to read, things could be just a hint less blurry.
Click to expand...

The best way to get it adjusted is to use the IPD slider menu option. Hit the Oculus Home button on the right touch controller and I believe it's the third icon down on the right side. It shows a big green + symbol and helps you adjust the horizontal (IPD slider) and vertical alignment.

I don't remember if that green + was in the initial setup because initial setup or not but it helped me realize an hour in that I had the vertical alignment off.

Other than that, the hazy/glare effect is normal as is the slightly hard to read text. Virtual Desktop applications aren't really well suited yet for this generation of HMDs. But as Decibel mentioned, all these small inadequacies go out the window once gameplay begins.
 
Sonicks said:
The best way to get it adjusted is to use the IPD slider menu option. Hit the Oculus Home button on the right touch controller and I believe it's the third icon down on the right side. It shows a big green + symbol and helps you adjust the horizontal (IPD slider) and vertical alignment.

I don't remember if that green + was in the initial setup because initial setup or not but it helped me realize an hour in that I had the vertical alignment off.

Other than that, the hazy/glare effect is normal as is the slightly hard to read text. Virtual Desktop applications aren't really well suited yet for this generation of HMDs. But as Decibel mentioned, all these small inadequacies go out the window once gameplay begins.
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Yeah, for the green +, +/-3 is about the same for me, so im not sure what exactly i should use.

If the gameplay looks fine i dont care. Oculus home (i think thats what its called?) the text looked good enough, but for steam VR it was be difficult.

Also, i think the best visuals for me are when the headset is pressuring my forehead and not touching my lower face, that doesn't seem right... it can also get HOT in there! I'll have to keep messing with it.

Thanks for the suggestions.
 
Decibel said:
Make sure to wear it so the Y part of the strap is as low as possible on the back of your head
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Hey man, thanks for this. I've always had the Y part higher up on my head which made the headphones not fit perfectly and had to be all stretched to the max. Once I loosened the hell out of the top strap and moved the Y part down like you said the headphones fit way better with plenty of play. Comfort isn't really better but definitely the correct way to wear it. Awesome!
 
bobzdar said:
The Vive lighthouses aren't cordless. I mean maybe if you have an outlet closer than your computer to the lighthouse you'd have a little less cord ... But because you have to run different types of cord? How is that even a concern, let alone one of your major ones?
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I didn't say they were cordless? I said I didn't have to run a cable back to my PC....
Yes, I have an outlet underneath each lighthouse. Figuring out a single, much shorter, power cable is so much better than stringing a USB cable 20 feet across the room, and makes my wife much happier.

Plus with the USB ports I didn't have to use, I was able to hook up my throttle and joystick and OMG GUYS YOU HAVE TO TRY ELITE DANGEROUS IN VR IT'S AMAZING
 
Ludic said:
I didn't say they were cordless? I said I didn't have to run a cable back to my PC....
Yes, I have an outlet underneath each lighthouse. Figuring out a single, much shorter, power cable is so much better than stringing a USB cable 20 feet across the room, and makes my wife much happier.

Plus with the USB ports I didn't have to use, I was able to hook up my throttle and joystick and OMG GUYS YOU HAVE TO TRY ELITE DANGEROUS IN VR IT'S AMAZING
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That went to fanboi to awesome in 2 seconds. I imagined you were typing furiously and then you remembered Elite Dangerous and just went berserk. I would've been glorious to witness in person, that moment when you went off the rails.
 
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